<Spoilers> Muv Luv Alternative sucks

[Sovapex]

Gotta say, I'm beyond disappointed with Muv Luv Alternative. I slogged through Extra and Unlimited with naiive anticipation of reading the 40+ hour epic rollercoaster that VNBD, and all of Alternative's fans, led me to believe. Shame that this is what I got. I have no idea how it got rated so high on VNBD or why it has such a devoted following. It's certainly not the worst VN I've ever read, but it still sucks. 
I feel as if it's important to say that I played most of it, and kinda read up on the ending because it got so unbearable. So maybe my thoughts are contradicted by things happening near the end. 

I don't know if I'm going to be kicking the hornet's nest posting this here, but after investing so much time into the game, I feel as if I have to rant, so this is happening regardless. Here's my grips:

1. The protagonist sucks. He starts off great. He's a marty stu and you root for him because we've become invested in a world that has little to no chance, but then one little thing goes wrong and he goes down a path of self-degradation. He's so self-important and arrogant that he believes that everything that does not go 110% is his fault. And he never shuts the hell up with his internal dialogue. 24/7 he's repeating obvious nonsense or raging inside his head about something. There is no good scenes in Muv Luv that have Takeru's presence, which is 99% of them, because he has to interrupt with his inane angsty prattling throughout even the most dramatic scenes. 
Think of Majikoi. Think of Grisaia. Remember the Main Characters inner dialogue? If you do, you barely do, because it was so seemlessly inserted into the narrative that it was almost undetectable. 

2. The pacing. There's too many times where Takeru is talking back and forth about nothing pertinent with people (or, of course, himself). Most of Muv Luv is just full of nothing happening. This kinda leads onto the next point. 

3. Infodumping. Self-explanatory. Even if you disagree with every other little thing I say, this is simply an undeniable fact. 
Exposition is supposed to be weaved into a dialogue, not fed to you like you're in a classroom, which you are half the bloody time in Muv Luv AND Alternative. Reading this stuff feels like work half the time. Yuuko, your life tutor, seems to love the sound of her own voice. I get that Quantum Physics is a thing in Muv Luv, and it's very hard to understand for even 'experts' or whatever, but do we really have to have lectures in 20 minute intervals that drone on forever about a subject nobody cares about. Steins Gate did it fine. 

4. The plot is garbage. It doesn't go anywhere. There's really not much more to say. The only time there was any semblance of a plot was the Coup-Detat, but that's hardly ever mentioned again except for whenever someone wants to gush about how awesome 'the Shogun' is, even though it's clearly established she's nothing more than a walking figurehead. Other than that, what was actually going on in between all of these raids on Hives that wasn't Takeru just mindlessly talking to his companions about nothing in particular? 

5. Shock value. The chomp scene was the only death scene that had any significance, since an entire almost-unendurable arc was based around it. Everyone else just died randomly and had little impact on the story on their way out. Hell, they didn't even serve as development for anyone else, with the exception of the one Captain lady, and that was so forced and spontaneous it was pathetic. Like, they all instantly become the characters they end up as in their routes because a dying woman that they knew for less than a couple of weeks told them to. Yeah. Humans don't really work like that. 
Speaking of shock value, let's talk about the Beta Rape scene. 'Spoilers' were included in the title, so no whining about that.
It was utterly stupid, simply put. So, the Beta decided randomly after not even seeing us as worth worrying about, or as 'life forms', for so long that they're going to find out how to make a human female moan? Even if there was a reason, why the female and not the male? Objectively speaking, what's the difference? We're not talking about reproductive qualities, of which females are far superior, we're just talking about pleasure. 
Answer = Because that fate would shock the viewers more, of course, and conjure some stupid reason to put Sumika in a sympathetic light. Well, I couldn't care less about her because that was contrived and her character is weak. 

6. Characters were horrible, yo. Their dialogue was inane and their growth non-existent, at least by any believable or substantial means. They served little more than as triggers for Shirogane to do stuff. It's very easy to forget the original cast exist in Alternative. They're overshadowed by other characters, and even they suck. Most of them exist just to die, and the ones that survive have NOTHING compelling about them at all. This entire game is like a submit of a clumsy first draft. 

7. Romantic interests. This is more of a minor gripe, relatively. Why give us all these options and characters to explore with in the last games and then force us into a relationship with the most generic and insipid character ever created? A character that has NO depth, even in the original. A character that has no likes or interests that are not Takeru related? A character that whines, complains and is only useful due to a power that is not her own? A character two steps from becoming a Yandere, and yet even that somehow prevents her from becoming the least bit compelling because she doesn't do anything. She is the main heroine because, and only because, she inherits the bewilderingly popular role of 'Childhood Friend'. /puke.

8. The ending. What? It's bad. It erases literally everything Takeru did so he can be placed smack bang into square one. And he doesn't even remember! We might as well consider Alternative non-canon. 

9. Angst. So. Much. Angst. Takeru is always screaming and nobody inside of his head, and even outside of his head in front of people, creating awkward atmospheres. The one point where I was like "Oh, this dude is awesome" was in the retelling of the scene where those two jealous soldiers sock the crap out of him. He embarassed himself in Unlimited, but took the situation like a champ in Alternative. 
Where did that Takeru go? The dude who was willing to get beaten the hell out of to get stuff done, and stay calm throughout the whole thing? He was awesome, and he didn't stick around long. He was replaced by a dude who screams in the middle of an entire classroom and hugs his teacher. 
People thought Shirou from Fate Stay/night was embarassing? Lmfao. 
So, that's my rant.  

Edited November 25, 2016 by Sovapex

[WinterfuryZX]

4) you didn't understand the plot, Takeru is basically deead in MLA timeline, and all timelines exist in parallel.

5) again... You know the betas managed to extract live human brains, right? (carbon based organism are machines for them, they don't give a shit about pleasure, moans or reproductive qualities)

Edited November 25, 2016 by WinterfuryZX

[Funnerific]

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I don't know if I'm going to be kicking the hornet's nest posting this here...

Welcome to the hornet's nest! Make yourself at home.

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1. The protagonist sucks. He starts off great. He's a marty stu and you root for him because we've become invested in a world that has little to no chance, but then one little thing goes wrong and he goes down a path of self-degradation. He's so self-important and arrogant that he believes that everything that does not go 110% is his fault. And he never shuts the hell up with his internal dialogue. 24/7 he's repeating obvious nonsense or raging inside his head about something. There is no good scenes in Muv Luv that have Takeru's presence, which is 99% of them, because he has to interrupt with his inane angsty prattling throughout even the most dramatic scenes. 
Think of Majikoi. Think of Grisaia. Remember the Main Characters inner dialogue? If you do, you barely do, because it was so seemlessly inserted into the narrative that it was almost undetectable. 

That's Japanese writing for you. The constant blaming yourself for everything. Then again, Takeru did come to this world from another one and he has a mission, so it kind of makes sense that he would feel like everything revolves around him.

Majikoi is effectively a moege and Grisaia is still a completely different genre from MLA, so the comparison isn't really appropriate.

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2. The pacing. There's too many times where Takeru is talking back and forth about nothing pertinent with people (or, of course, himself). Most of Muv Luv is just full of nothing happening. This kinda leads onto the next point. 

Gotta reap that $$$ for inflated volume, bro.

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3. Infodumping. Self-explanatory. Even if you disagree with every other little thing I say, this is simply an undeniable fact. 
Exposition is supposed to be weaved into a dialogue, not fed to you like you're in a classroom, which you are half the bloody time in Muv Luv AND Alternative. Reading this stuff feels like work half the time. Yuuko, your life tutor, seems to love the sound of her own voice. I get that Quantum Physics is a thing in Muv Luv, and it's very hard to understand for even 'experts' or whatever, but do we really have to have lectures in 20 minute intervals that drone on forever about a subject nobody cares about. Steins Gate did it fine. 

I agree, but the "Briefing" and "Rinsen Taisei" BGM smoothed the experience for me.

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4. The plot is garbage. It doesn't go anywhere. There's really not much more to say. The only time there was any semblance of a plot was the Coup-Detat, but that's hardly ever mentioned again except for whenever someone wants to gush about how awesome 'the Shogun' is, even though it's clearly established she's nothing more than a walking figurehead. Other than that, what was actually going on in between all of these raids on Hives that wasn't Takeru just mindlessly talking to his companions about nothing in particular? 

Agree here too. The coup d'etat was my favourite part of the game. The feeling of realism is a lot stronger when your enemy is flesh and blood like yourself, and not something the writers can power up or down as much as they want.

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5. Shock value. The chomp scene was the only death scene that had any significance, since an entire almost-unendurable arc was based around it. Everyone else just died randomly and had little impact on the story on their way out. Hell, they didn't even serve as development for anyone else, with the exception of the one Captain lady, and that was so forced and spontaneous it was pathetic. Like, they all instantly become the characters they end up as in their routes because a dying woman that they knew for less than a couple of weeks told them to. Yeah. Humans don't really work like that. 
Speaking of shock value, let's talk about the Beta Rape scene. 'Spoilers' were included in the title, so no whining about that.
It was utterly stupid, simply put. So, the Beta decided randomly after not even seeing us as worth worrying about, or as 'life forms', for so long that they're going to find out how to make a human female moan? Even if there was a reason, why the female and not the male? Objectively speaking, what's the difference? We're not talking about reproductive qualities, of which females are far superior, we're just talking about pleasure. 
Answer = Because that fate would shock the viewers more, of course, and conjure some stupid reason to put Sumika in a sympathetic light. Well, I couldn't care less about her because that was contrived and her character is weak. 

As with most utsuge, people have to die. In a character-focused game it will be the heroine and/or the protagonist, but in a more story-centric one like MLA it has to be most of the cast. This is one of the vices of the genre because you pretty much know what to expect after a while, the only question is "who dies".

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6. Characters were horrible, yo. Their dialogue was inane and their growth non-existent, at least by any believable or substantial means. They served little more than as triggers for Shirogane to do stuff. It's very easy to forget the original cast exist in Alternative. They're overshadowed by other characters, and even they suck. Most of them exist just to die, and the ones that survive have NOTHING compelling about them at all. This entire game is like a submit of a clumsy first draft. 

What's there to expect of a blatant harem that is basically all the same people as in Extra, walking around in futuristic suits with half-visible nipples - it's pretty ridiculous that there are so few differences in the cast, almost as if the Unlimited world branched from Extra a few years ago at most. Doesn't add up with the whole BETA thing though.

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7. Romantic interests. This is more of a minor gripe, relatively. Why give us all these options and characters to explore with in the last games and then force us into a relationship with the most generic and insipid character ever created? A character that has NO depth, even in the original. A character that has no likes or interests that are not Takeru related? A character that whines, complains and is only useful due to a power that is not her own? A character two steps from becoming a Yandere, and yet even that somehow prevents her from becoming the least bit compelling because she doesn't do anything. She is the main heroine because, and only because, she inherits the bewilderingly popular role of 'Childhood Friend'. /puke.

Agreed. Nothing to add, lol.

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8. The ending. What? It's bad. It erases literally everything Takeru did so he can be placed smack bang into square one. And he doesn't even remember! We might as well consider Alternative non-canon. 

But he possibly made a difference in a world where almost everyone he cared about is dead, and there's a countless amount of worlds like that - let's go save another one!

 

 

The one thing I liked about MLA is that it was undeniably atmospheric (this is enhanced by good BGM). It's definitely overrated though.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Funnerific

[Sovapex]

28 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

4) you didn't understand the plot, Takeru is basically deead in MLA timeline, and all timelines exist in parallel.

5) again... You know the betas managed to extract live human brains, right? (carbon based organism are machines for them, they don't give a shit about pleasure, moans or reproductive qualities)

What? I know that. What do you mean I didn't understand the plot? That doesn't make any sense. I never even mentioned anything about the original Takeru or the alternate realities, so using that as proof that I 'don't understand the plot' is odd. 

Yes, but why did they do all that to Sumika and not Takeru? Answer: Shock Value. 

[Sovapex]

30 minutes ago, Funnerific said:

Majikoi is effectively a moege and Grisaia is still a completely different genre from MLA, so the comparison isn't really appropriate.

Well, the thing is, I'm only really comparing narrative design. I understand that MLA had an oppressive atmosphere unlike anything save 999 and Swan Song (imo ofc), so a lot of the inner monologue is going to probably be dark and gritty in contrast to the very light quips that are present all over Majikoi. 
That being said, my point was that Majikoi's and Grisaia's inner monologues did not obstruct the story. And, maybe, less whiny. That'd be nice. 

30 minutes ago, Funnerific said:

I agree, but the "Briefing" and "Rinsen Taisei" BGM smoothed the experience for me.

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Yeah, in all fairness, there was really good OST in the game. There was that OST that played in the epilogue for the Coup'detat arc that I cannot find was also superb. 

30 minutes ago, Funnerific said:

As with most utsuge, people have to die. In a character-focused game it will be the heroine and/or the protagonist, but in a more story-centric one like MLA it has to be most of the cast. This is one of the vices of the genre because you pretty much know what to expect after a while, the only question is "who dies".

Wouldn't it have been better to take that bloated '40+' hour sign and invest it in something worthwhile, like character development, so that we actually feel something rather than 'oh well'? I don't mean to insult it any further than I have, but I have to say, it just seems like incredibly incompetent writing. I've never felt so much apathy for characters ever, and the finale where they all die was about as emotionless as I could expect. Except for, perhaps, Meiya. Still didn't care, though. 

But since we seem to be on the same wavelength whilst not being at buttbuddy level, recommend me something. <3

Edited November 25, 2016 by Sovapex

[Funnerific]

13 minutes ago, Sovapex said:

Wouldn't it have been better to take that bloated '40+' hour sign and invest it in something worthwhile, like character development, so that we actually feel something rather than 'oh well'? I don't mean to insult it any further than I have, but I have to say, it just seems like incredibly incompetent writing. I've never felt so much apathy for characters ever, and the finale where they all die was about as emotionless as I could expect. Except for, perhaps, Meiya. Still didn't care, though.

But effort

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But since we seem to be on the same wavelength whilst not being at buttbuddy level, recommend me something. <3

I'll keep my recommendations to plot-centric titles:

Rewrite (supernatural, route quality varies greatly), G-senjou no Maou (crime, battle of wits), Aoishiro (mystery, Japanese mythology), Soul Link (suspense, action)

The last two should be played without a walkthrough unless you're actually stuck.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Funnerific

[WinterfuryZX]

26 minutes ago, Sovapex said:

What? I know that. What do you mean I didn't understand the plot? That doesn't make any sense. I never even mentioned anything about the original Takeru or the alternate realities, so using that as proof that I 'don't understand the plot' is odd. 

Yes, but why did they do all that to Sumika and not Takeru? Answer: Shock Value. 

Life continues after takeru disappearence in MLA timeline, the world is not resetted end exist in parallel, altered fable is basically another story entirely.

Takeru got slaughtered badly, anyway, all the brains you see at the beginning of the game got probably extracted in the same way as Sumika's. Also, for what we know, maybe male brains are impossible to extract.

Edited November 25, 2016 by WinterfuryZX

[Sovapex]

1 minute ago, Funnerific said:

But effort

LOL. 

2 minutes ago, Funnerific said:

I'll keep my recommendations to plot-focused titles:

Rewrite (supernatural), G-senjou no Maou (crime, battle of wits), Aoishiro (mystery, Japanese mythology), Soul Link (suspense, action)

Got dat G-string already, so I'll take a crack at Soul Link. Seems pretty good. 

[kyrt]

I'll take the bait.

1-9 Takeru: In the majority of most circumstances I would agree with you but I actually think Takeru's angst (not the right word you're looking for but whatever) has a place in the vn.  Remember this is the same Takeru that went through all of the events of extra and unlimited and who has developed friendships and relationships with a good portion of the class. Now he's been dropped on a world to fight for him what is a relatively unknown enemy combatant. I imagine that in some of these situations you would likely go through a similar process. Admittedly you have to realize that Takeru develops PTSD and depression relatively early on which really can you blame him. He is a flawed character but that is one of the reasons people actually can understand a bit of his character. 

4: I would disagree the plot was very similar to Starship Troopers and this is more of a combat vn than a vn like Steins;Gate, Grisaia, or even Majikoi. It tries to depict war and if you've ever seen/read something like starship troopers you realize that the time between the combat is spent growing closer to characters so that you can cheer or feel sad when they often inevitably kick the bucket or manage to survive. The plot delves into Takeru's training as a soldier and then his battles as a soldier. The entire coup scenario just goes to show that there are human conflicts as well. Just be glad they didn't try to make us feel sorry for the BETA.

5. The chomp and further deaths are there to showcase death. While often times it might hit people over the head with it the fact it often had little real impact on the characters is actually development on its own. They grown accustom to it. They were impacted each when seeing someone near them die for the first time and then slowly but surely you notice that the deaths begin having less impact. Humans are funny because they don't always work as one would expect.

The BETA Scene: While initially I like most people despised this scene the feeling behind it I feel is important. You have to remember that in this scene it's not just a scene where she is being sexually experimented on but also a scene where the Takeru of the alternative world was essentially eaten alive as he tried to save her. While yes the sexual experimentation was then happening you have to remember one thing...learning about the physiology and sexual behaviors of other species is something that we ourselves do as human beings (just look at the scientific history). I mean hell what the BETA are doing is not too different from what people used to do with people of a different race to themselves. The human race is fucked up. I can't help but think of that scene as something scientific on the part of the BETA. They wished to understand the creatures and what made them feel. Perhaps it wasn't the orgasms they were interested in learning about but rather the emotions and physicality of their enemy. Regardless it was a disturbing scene and arguments can be made for whether they should or should not have kept it in. The BETA are essentially colonizing earth and don't see the creatures living on it as lifeforms...honestly it really reminds me of colonization. Perhaps because of Takeru's actions in Alternative they will begin seeing them as sentient creatures and may try a different way to deal with them.

6. The characters for the most part are rather ordinary which transfers over from previous games in the series. Not everyone is going to be some awesome personality but they are going to feel human. You also have to remember that we are seeing things primarily from Takeru's point of view and only from a certain point. It's quite possible that the characters changed more than we know but we are limited to only seeing what Takeru sees and hears. That said though I do agree a good portion of the characters were uninspired and static from appearances but then we humans do not always change. War can definitely help with that but for some there might be little change at all. I do believe this was one of the weakest points in the series though as such a big change definitely should have impacted the characters more than just keeping the quirks from extra and unlimited. 

7. Romantic Interests: A big part of me wishes they would have just left out the romance part. I mean if the game really wanted to still sell to the crowd that likes sex they could have just had Takeru sleep around and not develop any close attachments to everyone. The sex could have simply been a means to feel closer to people even though it didn't mean anything. I have no issue with just sticking with one heroine in a game but I think having choices of the heroines could have given the bit more development some of the characters really did need. Just seeing how each of them deal with being in a relationship of sorts during the events could have been interesting. How would they respond would they be hopeful would being in a relationship give them more reason to live? Would they respond to a relationship as a token thing to do before they died? Would one of them just want the closeness of being with someone but not the physical relationship? Or vice versa perhaps one of the characters would want a purely physical relationship and nothing else. Relationships in war is an interesting thing that I wish they would have done a bit more in depth on or not done at all.

8. The Ending: I agree it's bad. I loved the ending but not the very ending. There were a number of ways I wish this could have been done instead. Hell let Takeru die would have been a better ending. Perhaps he dies in the final attack and after seeing the base explode it fades to black and the credits and music playing. I also wish that it would have taken place over a longer period of time. Perhaps have Takeru and one of the other love interests leave a child behind and they could make him/her the next protagonist 18-30 years in the future near the end or the war. Honestly I feel as if sending Takeru back home was a mistake as it makes everything he did in Alternative essentially meaningless for the reader. Sure he might have helped the world of that particular verse but it doesn't really resonate if there are no consequences or responses to his actions. The very end of alternative was disappointing it would be great if they could fix it by giving Takeru an option to stay or go. If he stays maybe he would be a war hero and could have a cameo in a future game where he is training the next set of recruits. It would be nice if the option was there then people could choose what they wanted and that would make it just slightly better.

 

[Sovapex]

11 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

Life continues after takeru disappearence in MLA timeline, the world is not resetted end exist in parallel, altered fable is basically another story entirely.

Takeru got slaughtered badly, anyway, all the brain you see at the beginning of the game got probably extracted in the same way as Sumika. Also, for what we know, maybe male brains are impossible to extract.

I know that too.

No, Takeru was killed pretty much instantly. As for Male Brains not being able to be extracted, that's just a baseless theory. The reason is shock value. I'm sorry, but it is what it is. 

[Norleas]

When i finished Muv Luv Alt i have a big disappointment, though i will not say that the game suck hard, i rate him at max a 7.5/8, nowhere close to the 9.3 average in VNDB, the first thing that came on my mind is that this score is inflated because of the little number of titles available in English, but  the 93 (of 100) score on EGS killed my theory.

I really like monologues, but i have to agree with you that that Takeru monologues are redundant most of time. On the other hand, i think that in his situation rage,angst and a flood of negative emotions is very plausible.

The pace really is problematic at times, with dialogues dragging the history, instead of continue the plot.

I'm very critical when looking to sci-fi/action vn concepts and i have to say that in my opnion the parallel universe concept would be better employed in a non-action title than in a game with  the "high school kids will save the world feat. aliens and mechas".

I don't like how they do the ending, resetting the character devolpment of Takeru, i like tragedies, so make him go to a desert universe where he i will cty to death remembering the tragedies in the past.

Shock value sells more games and make more discussion about, so why not?

On a side note, I think a large number of titles available in English are overrated.

[WinterfuryZX]

20 minutes ago, Sovapex said:

I know that too.

No, Takeru was killed pretty much instantly. As for Male Brains not being able to be extracted, that's just a baseless theory. The reason is shock value. I'm sorry, but it is what it is. 

We don't know for sure why takeru was killed whitout being "exhaminated", Sumika is not the only human who has been "raped" by the beta though, there is no way to know if the exhaminations subjects were only female or not, we lack information here.

EDIT:

People fail to understand the betas are completely uninterested in human sexuality, they think humans are machines.

Edited November 25, 2016 by WinterfuryZX

[Funnerific]

8 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

We don't know for sure why takeru was killed whitout being "exhaminated", Sumika is not the only human who has been "raped" by the beta though, there is no way to know if the exhaminations subjects were only female or not, we lack information here.

We lack information on an important subject in a game full of infodumps. This can probably only mean the writers couldn't come up with a plausible excuse for a tentacle rape scene.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Funnerific

[WinterfuryZX]

That's becouse this is tied to an eroscene and the ero in VN is almost always half-assed. Unfortunately.

[Sovapex]

32 minutes ago, kyrt said:

 

I'll take the bait.

 

Bait? Give me a break, dude. Say what you like about me, but please don't pretend I'm not being the least bit rational with my criticism. 

32 minutes ago, kyrt said:

1-9

This defense of Takeru's emotional situation is all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that his character is annoying and trite. Is the only way to express that you're stressed, scared, traumatized etc to scream out in your head, and even sometimes out loud? The answer's no, but that's what the writers did because, to be honest, they're quite incompetent. All you're really doing is explaining why he's an incredibly annoying little cretin, as if I didn't already know that. 

32 minutes ago, kyrt said:

4:

None of what you mentioned has anything to do with the plot not being bad. You're literally just saying it has themes. That's irrelevant. 
As for the characters, I mean, they sucked. They had no depth, originality, nor did they have anything compelling about them. None of them, NONE, had any development apart from Shirogane. But that doesn't matter neither. Because at every turn he seeks to degrade himself because he suffers from Protagonist syndrome. 

 

32 minutes ago, kyrt said:

5.

What death of a friend didn't bother the main cast? At least one of them always had some type of reaction. Not sure what you're referring to, but if you're talking about nameless NPCs, then of course they have no reaction.  
That being said, every death that affected one of the main cast did not last long. It didn't do much in the way of affect them. Remember Amane's boyfriend? He kinda just appeared, didn't even speak to Amane, got killed and she forgot about it.
That's what I'm talking about when I say the deaths are completely meaningless. 

32 minutes ago, kyrt said:

The BETA Scene

Again, you're ignoring my main argument and you're explaining the context of the scenes like I didn't sit through it myself. Not to mention your strange tangent, like you're trying to compare this to some ulterior theme to deepen the scene, even though there's nothing concrete connecting this fictional scene of tentacle rape to real life. There's nothing to respond to in your reply because it's completely irrelevant. 

The beta rape scene made no sense, and it was there purely for shock value. They raped Sumika as an artificial way of shocking you and making you feel sorry for her. Again, why did they do all of that to Sumika, but not to Takeru? Objectively speaking, was Takeru not as good as a subject as Sumika? 

" They wished to understand the creatures and what made them feel."

And this desire came absolutely out of nowhere. I mean, previously, they couldn't give a damn less. But this time, randomly, they felt like they wanted to pleasure one of them to see how they tick. Makes a ton of sense. 

32 minutes ago, kyrt said:

6.

Lol, are you really saying that characters went off and developed in the background whilst Takeru was busy doing something else? 

What kind of talk is that, man? Made me giggle though, I won't deny. 

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Sovapex

[Sovapex]

13 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

People fail to understand the betas are completely uninterested in human sexuality, they think humans are machines.

So why are they sexually stimulating humans, then..? 

 

8 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

That's becouse this is tied to an eroscene and the ero in VN is almost always half-assed. Unfortunately.

Meaning this is badly written, which is exactly my point all along. Why even argue with me if that's the conclusion you inevitably come to as well? 

[WinterfuryZX]

8 minutes ago, Sovapex said:

So why are they sexually stimulating humans, then..? 

 

Meaning this is badly written, which is exactly my point all along. Why even argue with me if that's the conclusion you inevitably come to as well? 

That's not their main goal. They just happen to do that while exprimenting whit those strange alien machines CPU's functions.

Still better than 90% of competition even if some details are left unexplained.

Edited November 25, 2016 by WinterfuryZX

[Sovapex]

4 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

That's not their main goal.

Better than 90% of competition even if some details are unexplained.

I mean, that's a BS figure, considering you haven't played 100% of VN novels, but whatever. 

[yorikbad]

Another week, another troll appears.

I always thought Muv-Love was about emotions and connections with people inside the cruel world. I don't give a fuck about all this quasi-scientific theory and quantum physics, because it wasn't really important for me. It's not a the Ulysses, it's an action si-fi with extraordinary world building.

Authors made a lot of mistakes, but they've managed to create likable characters. I was crying like a baby when the game ended. Many years have passed and I still remember the characters, my friends which I held dear for 70 hours of non-stop reading. That's why this visual novel is great. If you don't feel anything, then you should go back to comedy eroge. 

[Sovapex]

49 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

Another week, another troll appears.

I always thought Muv-Love was about emotions and connections with people inside the cruel world. I don't give a fuck about all this quasi-scientific theory and quantum physics, because it wasn't really important for me. It's not a the Ulysses, it's an action si-fi with extraordinary world building.

Authors made a lot of mistakes, but they've managed to create likable characters. I was crying like a baby when the game ended. Many years have passed and I still remember the characters, my friends which I held dear for 70 hours of non-stop reading. That's why this visual novel is great. If you don't feel anything, then you should go back to comedy eroge. 

I smell the slight tinge of butthurt. Shame, because I'm really not looking to make anybody upset at all, but clearly some people just hate it when they don't share the same opinion. 

Troll? Sounds like a weak dismissal tactic to me. If I'm trolling, surely you can prove it via argumentation rather than lame evasion games and logical fallacies, no? 

Is that it? Is that your argument? "Characters are good because I said so, so you're wrong". Awesome argument, friend. And you actually call me a troll? Sounds like you're trying to bait me, if anything. But, okay, friend. You stay in your echo chamber, because obviously you can't handle dissenting opinions, and that isn't some sly attack neither. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Sovapex

[yorikbad]

11 minutes ago, Sovapex said:

I smell the slight tinge of butthurt. Shame, because I'm really not looking to make anybody upset at all, but clearly some people just hate it when they don't share the same opinion. 

Troll? Sounds like a weak dismissal tactic to me. If I'm trolling, surely you can prove it via argumentation rather than lame evasion games and logical fallacies, no? 

Is that it? Is that your argument? "Characters are good because I said so, so you're wrong". Awesome argument, friend. And you actually call me a troll? Sounds like you're trying to bait me, if anything. But, okay, friend. You stay in your echo chamber, because obviously you can't handle dissenting opinions, and that isn't some sly attack neither.

Well, we have a recent history of "suddenly" new people comes to Fuwa with a header "this game sucks" and with arguments I can describe like "subjective opinion" and then compare SiFi to erotic comedy and thriller. That's why iI find it suspicious.

Also, the way you make your statements shows that you already have your answers. Like me. But I'm not trying to start a dispute, I'm simply expressing my subjective opinion. The way you do it, aggressively. If I was wrong, I appologize. If I'm not, well, I'll be waiting for the next big topic. What's left? Steins:Gate sucks?

[Sovapex]

10 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

Well, we have a recent history of "suddenly" new people comes to Fuwa with a header "this game sucks" and with arguments I can describe like "subjective opinion" and then compare SiFi to erotic comedy and thriller. That's why iI find it suspicious.

Also, the way you make your statements shows that you already have your answers. Like me. But I'm not trying to start a dispute, I'm simply expressing my subjective opinion. The way you do it, aggressively. If I was wrong, I appologize. If I'm not, well, I'll be waiting for the next big topic. What's left? Steins:Gate sucks?

Apology accepted.

I'd love to see the rationality of someone who'd think Steins:gate sucks, though. I mean, why can't we both? Are you really so set in this mindset that Steins:Gate and perhaps even Alternative are so good that they do not have glaring flaws others can point out? 

It doesn't detract from your love and experience in the end. This part of the human psyche boggles my mind to no end.  

Edited November 25, 2016 by Sovapex

[Darklord Rooke]

Nice critique. Well thought out. I think the first 5 points are the same sorts problems I have with most VNs.

Possibly number 6 also.

... And number 7.

 

[Sovapex]

1 minute ago, Darklord Rooke said:

Nice critique. Well thought out. I think the first 5 points are the same sorts problems I have with most VNs.

Possibly number 6 also.

... And number 7.

 

Heh, I ain't so good at taking compliments. Thanks, glad you liked it.  (too douchey? Probably) 

I can see most of them except number 1. I've never come across a character that has grated on my nerves half as much as Shirogane. Perhaps with the exception of  But number 3 is definitely a prominent problem I see all over the place in serious VNs.  

[Shota_Victory]

10 hours ago, Sovapex said:

The protagonist sucks. He starts off great. He's a marty stu and you root for him because we've become invested in a world that has little to no chance, but then one little thing goes wrong and he goes down a path of self-degradation. He's so self-important and arrogant that he believes that everything that does not go 110% is his fault. And he never shuts the hell up with his internal dialogue. 24/7 he's repeating obvious nonsense or raging inside his head about something. There is no good scenes in Muv Luv that have Takeru's presence, which is 99% of them, because he has to interrupt with his inane angsty prattling throughout even the most dramatic scenes

You should try watching Neon Genesis Evangelion.