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Sovapex

Most underrated VN of all time?

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First post of Fuwanovel, but I've got to get something off my chest. 

BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend is my favorite visual novel of all time, and I am shocked that many people overlook this title. I've read Umineko, Fate Stay Night, Saya No Uta, Steins Gate, and whilst I love all of them, this surpasses them by a country mile. IMO, of course. 

Sure, it's not 100% visual novel. It's a 2d fighter, but nonetheless, it sports a story mode that is full of compelling, indepedent and well-written characters and some of the most amazing dialogue I've seen in a Japanese game (maybe because of it's stellar translation, but a lot of VNs I read have 'meh' dialogue). Plus, it's got a 'stylish' mode there for players who just want to enjoy the story and not worry about getting their ass whooped, and the fights are nowhere near as frequent as, say, MK's story. 

I'd mention the premise of the story, but to be honest, it's generic. That doesn't matter though. The characterization, plot development and the setting of Blazblue more than make up for it. 

The one problem I have with it is that it requires a intermediate understanding of science. Shroders Cat, Quantum Physics etc. play a role in the story, and a lot of terminology will be lost of you if you do not understand what terms like 'Causality' and 'Observer (Catbox theory)' mean. At first I had no idea what any of it meant, but the pros outweighed all of this like a truck was dropped onto it. 

Nonetheless, it's freaking great. Any of you played it? 

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BlazBlue is not a visual novel, dood. Not even 10%. It's a fighting game with a storyline presented in a visual novel format, a thing common in a lot of different japanese games. Doesn't make them visual novels, though.

As for your question - yes, I played some of the BlazBlue games and no, I don't think they are stellar. I still prefer Guilty Gear series and Under Night In-Birth over anything else.

This topic should be moved to the gaming section.

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6 minutes ago, Narcosis said:

BlazBlue is not a visual novel, dood. Not even 10%. It's a fighting game with a storyline presented in a visual novel format, a thing common in a lot of different japanese games. Doesn't make them visual novels, though.

As for your question - yes, I played some of the BlazBlue games and no, I don't think they are stellar. I still prefer Guilty Gear series and Under Night In-Birth over anything else.

This topic should be moved to the gaming section.

VNDB begs you to differ

https://vndb.org/v6572

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17 minutes ago, Narcosis said:

BlazBlue is not a visual novel, dood. Not even 10%. It's a fighting game with a storyline presented in a visual novel format, a thing common in a lot of different japanese games. Doesn't make them visual novels, though.

As for your question - yes, I played some of the BlazBlue games and no, I don't think they are stellar. I still prefer Guilty Gear series and Under Night In-Birth over anything else.

This topic should be moved to the gaming section.

The story mode is a VN. I'm not sure how you can deny that, the VN format is used for the vast majority of that mode, and that mode in BBCSEX is easily over 40 hours. What other game that presents their stories in VN format is that consistent? It's certainly not common. And what's this percentage figure you pulled out of nowhere? Not even 10% of an entire game is VN? What methodology are you using to determine this, because there are people who pick these games up mostly for the story. I am one of those people. 

You prefer Guilty Gears and Under Night In Birth. For what? Gameplay? If so, that was not what I was talking about, so you're going on about something irrelevant. 

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The House In Fata Morgana just might be the most underrated VN I've ever read right alongside Remember11.

Fata is a stellarly paced VN with an incredible cast and a magnificently well done OST. 

Remember11 is a wonderful sci-fi mystery VN and all in all should have been more popular than Ever17 (a far more popular spiritual predecessor).

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I have to agree here, BlazBlues Story is pretty massive. Most modern RPGs don't have that much nowadays. I don't really know how much time you normally sink into fighting games, but in vanilla BlazBlue 2-3 hours of VN style narration per character seem pretty long to me.

 

Most people don't think this is a VN, but funny thing is I've seen people claim Neptunia or Atelier Games are VNs :vinty:

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1 minute ago, Prinny said:

I have to agree here, BlazBlues Story is pretty massive. Most modern RPGs don't have that much nowadays. I don't really know how much time you normally sink into fighting games, but in vanilla BlazBlue 2-3 hours of VN style narration per character seem pretty long to me.

 

Most people don't think this is a VN, but funny thing is I've seen people claim Neptunia or Atelier Games are VNs :vinty:

The story-per-character concept is dropped by Chronophantasma to focus on more linear stories which are more longer than the character stories, usually in-between 6-8 hours in length depending on your reading speed and the fights are more spaced out.

Games like BlazBlue and Neptunia are what contribute to the "VNs are/are not games" debate. It makes it all the more complicated.

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8 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

The House In Fata Morgana just might be the most underrated VN I've ever read right alongside Remember11.

Fata is a stellarly paced VN with an incredible cast and a magnificently well done OST. 

Remember11 is a wonderful sci-fi mystery VN and all in all should have been more popular than Ever17 (a far more popular spiritual predecessor).

 

House in Fata Morgana is definitely good, yes. I think there is problems with it's dialogue, but I loved it. I especially likes Michel's chapter, where his backstory is explored. The ending to that chapter was heartbreaking.

Is Remember 11 really good? I played the Zero Escape series. Shame he used the same plot twist of VLR and 999 for Ever 17. When I figured out what the big twist was for Ever 17 I dropped it. Still, I never hear people talk about Ever 17. 

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1 minute ago, KonpekiUmi said:

The story-per-character concept is dropped by Chronophantasma to focus on more linear stories which are more longer than the character stories, usually in-between 6-8 hours in length depending on your reading speed and the fights are more spaced out.

Games like BlazBlue and Neptunia are what contribute to the "VNs are/are not games" debate. It makes it all the more complicated.

Yeah, perhaps I should have worded my title and that differently, but I had no inkling it would turn into this kind of discussion. I really just wanted to put the word out there on how damnably good BBCSE was. 

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34 minutes ago, Kawasumi said:

VNDB begs you to differ

https://vndb.org/v6572

1 minute ago, Prinny said:

I have to agree here, BlazBlues Story is pretty massive. Most modern RPGs don't have that much nowadays. I don't really know how much time you normally sink into fighting games, but in vanilla BlazBlue 2-3 hours of VN style narration per character seem pretty long to me.

Most people don't think this is a VN, but funny thing is I've seen people claim Neptunia or Atelier Games are VNs :vinty:

They aren't :sachi: you need to know what makes the game a "visual novel". Neptunia and Atelier series are classic adventure JRPG's/SLG hybrids. The sole fact their storylines are presented in a visual novel format DOES NOT make them visual novels. Period. The same goes for BlazBlue games. They are fighting games at core and thus, aren't vn's. They aren't vn hybrids, either.

It's been a constant and neverending battle on VNDB, as to whether keep certain games in or drop them off the list and BlazBlue has been one of the few which had numerous take-downs and returns, just because uneducated masses keep on pestering the creators as to why "aren't they on the VNDB, despite being VN's", lol.

Fata Morgana is severely underrated and underappreciated, but that's what you get for not advertising your game properly and to an appropriate audience.

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9 minutes ago, Sovapex said:

Yeah, perhaps I should have worded my title and that differently, but I had no inkling it would turn into this kind of discussion. I really just wanted to put the word out there on how damnably good BBCSE was. 

It should also be noted that because of Calamity Trigger and Continuum Shift, the BlazBlue story is rather notorious for being very complicated and convoluted. It puts most stories with time travel and alternate timelines to shame, which isn't always a good thing. People nowadays just want a single coherent plot, which is why Chronophantasma made that change.

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9 minutes ago, Sovapex said:

Is Remember 11 really good? I played the Zero Escape series. Shame he used the same plot twist of VLR and 999 for Ever 17. When I figured out what the big twist was for Ever 17 I dropped it. Still, I never hear people talk about Ever 17. 

It's really good. Unlike ZE/E17, Remember11 has quite the thrill/suspense at the forefront (instead of Uchikoshi's trademark sci-fi mystery), and honestly while the ending is really underwhelming -vaguely contextualized in the game- how you get there might be the best way it is done in an Uchikoshi/Nakazawa VN. It's so good.

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6 minutes ago, Narcosis said:

The sole fact their storylines are presented in a visual novel format DOES NOT make them visual novels. Period. The same goes for BlazBlue games. They are fighting games at core and thus, aren't vn's. They aren't vn hybrids, either.

It's been a constant and neverending battle on VNDB, as to whether keep certain games in or drop them off the list and BlazBlue has been one of the few which had numerous take-downs and returns, just because uneducated masses keep on pestering the creators as to why "aren't they on the VNDB, despite being VN's",

Funny trivia: What is now known as "visual novel format" is not really "visual novel format". If you don't believe me lokk NVL and ADV format at vndb, if they didn't delete it yet.

I can only talk about vanilla BB and I don't know if it changed in later installments, but vanillas story mode fits as a hybrid. The story sequences are long and often enough and not interrupted by gameplay. If long sequences of uninterupted naration in a game do not count as VN hybrids, what else does?

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11 hours ago, Sovapex said:

First post of Fuwanovel, but I've got to get something off my chest. 

BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend is my favorite visual novel of all time, and I am shocked that many people overlook this title. I've read Umineko, Fate Stay Night, Saya No Uta, Steins Gate, and whilst I love all of them, this surpasses them by a country mile. IMO, of course. 

Sure, it's not 100% visual novel. It's a 2d fighter, but nonetheless, it sports a story mode that is full of compelling, indepedent and well-written characters and some of the most amazing dialogue I've seen in a Japanese game (maybe because of it's stellar translation, but a lot of VNs I read have 'meh' dialogue). Plus, it's got a 'stylish' mode there for players who just want to enjoy the story and not worry about getting their ass whooped, and the fights are nowhere near as frequent as, say, MK's story. 

I'd mention the premise of the story, but to be honest, it's generic. That doesn't matter though. The characterization, plot development and the setting of Blazblue more than make up for it. 

The one problem I have with it is that it requires a intermediate understanding of science. Shroders Cat, Quantum Physics etc. play a role in the story, and a lot of terminology will be lost of you if you do not understand what terms like 'Causality' and 'Observer (Catbox theory)' mean. At first I had no idea what any of it meant, but the pros outweighed all of this like a truck was dropped onto it. 

Nonetheless, it's freaking great. Any of you played it? 

There are a lot of VNs now based in that same universe, but that game just used VN format to tell the short - very short - story sections.  While it had an excellent story for a fighter, as a VN... *shrugs*

 

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7 hours ago, Chronopolis said:

Well according to my VNStat:

Natsu no Kusari (see this review)

i´m inclined to second natsu no kusari. no great many thought through and well written character studies floating around, yet said one is gravely missunderstood in its nature by many.
also wanting to mention kawarazaki-ke2 here, which too is a masterpiece of its own, much unlike the literary abomination silkys plus dared to create.

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13 hours ago, Narcosis said:

BlazBlue is not a visual novel, dood. Not even 10%. It's a fighting game with a storyline presented in a visual novel format, a thing common in a lot of different japanese games. Doesn't make them visual novels, though.

Aselia and Yumina are VNs, despite being RPG hybrids.  Boob Wars is a VN, despite having a silly minigame tacked on.  Brave Soul is a VN, despite having an action-RPG grafted on.  999 and Virtue's Last Reward are VNs, despite having adventure games grafted onto them.  I see no meaningful distinction between these hybrids, and BlazBlue.  Therefore, BlazBlue is a VN.  It's also a fighting game, but this isn't a problem at all.

Edit:  To be fair, I've never actually played any BlazBlue.  However, I am familiar with a different game series that I am told is very similar:  Persona 4 Arena, and its sequel.  These are both obviously VNs.  That a sweet fighting game is also included on the disc doesn't matter.  If someone put both Koihime and Koihime Enbu (the fighting game spinoff) onto the same disc, wrote up some connective tissue, and called the whole thing Koihime All The Things, the resulting game would still be a VN.

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5 minutes ago, Nandemonai said:

Aselia and Yumina are VNs, despite being RPG hybrids.  Boob Wars is a VN, despite having a silly minigame tacked on.  Brave Soul is a VN, despite having an action-RPG grafted on.  999 and Virtue's Last Reward are VNs, despite having adventure games grafted onto them.  I see no meaningful distinction between these hybrids, and BlazBlue.  Therefore, BlazBlue is a VN.  It's also a fighting game, but this isn't a problem at all.

I can't say a lot about the other games, but Aselia is mostly called a VN because a majority of the game is in VN format, and it has branching routes. As I understand it, BlazBlue has about an equal ratio of story to gameplay, and it has a less than traditional text system.

A better one to compare it with is Phoenix Wright, which is considered a visual novel despite having no narration and a certain amount of gameplay.

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Again, never actually played BlazBlue.  But after I played Persona 4 Arena, I heard BB mentioned as a game in a very similar vein.

In Persona 4 Arena, in the story mode, the difficulty has obviously been set to ultimate fucking pussy mode and you sometimes go upwards of half an hour in VN mode between fights.  Then you pop over to (say) Arcade mode, or Time Attack, and ... the computer all of a sudden knows how to fight.

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There is Hanachirasu, Dra+Koi and of course MGQ.

Hanachirasu - People avoid it just cause there are a couple of info-dumps, even though said info-dumps are very interesting and integral to the setting.

Dra+Koi - An mostly unknown title which has given me the best roller-coaster experience in any vn.

MGQ - No need to say why it's avoided :makina:  But the story and characters are very well made and executed rather than how you'd expect it to be. (my appreciation for it is probably high cause I just checked it out of curiosity and had nil expectations).

 

As for BlazBlue, haven't read it yet but it's on my wishlist. 

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On 11/11/2016 at 1:31 AM, spademan said:

i would not say of all time but https://vndb.org/v99 (suika) is highly underrated

Speaking of Suika, there's another person who agree with you. He is Beliar, who also one of VNDB mods and here his review if you want more. Oh, and following some discussion about Rewrite earlier here, maybe there's some people who think that Shiny Days was the best VN out there (Not me by the way, since the size was quite unbeliveable to say the least (Around 16 GB)). Also I think that both of Monster Girl Quest trilogy and Fata Morgana could count if looking at the production value only.

Edited by littleshogun

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3 hours ago, KonpekiUmi said:

BlazBlue is a fighting game. It just tells its story in a VN format.

Yeah I know that. 
It still looks pretty interesting though, not to mention I have yet to read/play any fighting-style semi-vn.

As for the whole vn/game issue, it's entirely subjective and no point arguing too much about it. Whether I consider BlazBlue a game/vn is something I'll know after playing it.

Also this reminds me that I consider Sengoku Rance a more of a vn than Kamdori. Dunno why though.

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