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Donald Trump Megathread


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2 minutes ago, Tyrosyn said:

I don't deny having an advantage in some regards (as I have disadvantages in others), but I strongly deny that some kind of responsibility is a result of that.
Responsibility is something that you decide for yourself to have, based on your own values and morals. No one can give you social responsibilities based on his own ideologies.

Exactly for these reasons people find this social justice mentality so repulsive. We don't want to be told we have to care. Caring is something that needs to come from your own heart, not because other people tell you so.

Yes, but it is not for me to decide whether he has to feel bad about it or not.
Maybe I would tell him that he sucks, because I believe that this is the right course of action. Maybe then he would think that I'm right and change his way of behavior.
But it's also possible that he doesn't care what I think or that he actually understands that he has a sucky attitude and is perfectly fine with it, maybe even proud to be the gangsta he is. And he has the right to think this way, just as I have the right to think of him as scum.

You can't expect everyone to have the same moral grounds as you. You can't take your own ideology and say that this is the best and only good way of living. It might be for you, everyone else has to decide for themselves and they have the freedom to disagree with your views.

I'm not sure I even need to answer, since you yourself argued your own points. So you accept the argument, but refuse the premise of there being a responsibility because it depends on the individual's morals? Well, that IS what I said. But I don't really think it's a "view" to say that sexism and racism is bad. You don't find them bad, or at least bad enough to demand an actual conscious effort not to be so? Well, good for you I guess, but this is not a case of difference in opinions, it's a case of you saying "yeah I might be sexist but I don't care." If you don't feel any responsibility, that's your own stuff, but I very much doubt there's any argument to be had about that not being smth bad.

People find that moral justice repulsive because they don't wanna know that being sexist and/or racist is bad? Uhm... knock knock, the real world is here. And, as I said about 3 or 4 times, it has nothing to do with feeling bad. A responsibility is, believe it or not... a responsibility. You can do smth or not do anything at all, that's another topic, but bearing a responsibility does not depend on your moral compass, unless you are trying to convince me that racism is not smth bad.

I can't expect, and I don't, people to have the same views as me, but that doesn't change anything I've said. People will still have part of their identity depend on who they are, and that comes hand-in-hand with a responsibility. People then can decide how they feel about it and how to act in consequence with their lives, but there's no real case to argue since you cannot just say "lies, I refuse to believe I've had such advantages and hence reject having to think of other people."

Freedom of thought does not mean that all ideologies/thoughts are fine/correct, but merely that you are free of having them. This responsibility will still exist, and deciding you don't care about sexism/racism/etc will still be smth bad, not good. It's unrelated to whether people will act on it or not, or how they'll feel about it. They are free to think whatever they want, but it won't make their refusal of their background any less real or their inherent responsibility any lesser.

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On 11/13/2016 at 2:27 PM, bigfatround0 said:

Like I said, there are some people that believe it but they're a small enough number that they don't make much of a difference.

Are you even American? If that's your youtube channel then you're clearly not from the US. In that case your comment isn't really relevant here.

Telling me I'm 'not relevant' and then discounting the fact that racism towards whites has become acceptable to the point where it's permeated into Universities across the World. Tell me did you vote for Hillary? And since the election is often referred to as America's Brexit, a referendum in which you can be sure I voted in, I think it would pay you better mind than to discount other Countiries on such a whim.

 

On 11/13/2016 at 3:47 PM, KonpekiUmi said:

This entire thread(s) is a mistake. Now users are turning on each other over ideologies and personal opinions.

Correction: Hillary supporters are turning on others personally.

Edited by ExtraMana
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3 hours ago, ExtraMana said:

Telling me I'm 'not relevant' and then discounting the fact that racism towards whites has become acceptable to the point where it's permeated into Universities across the World. Tell me did you vote for Hillary? And since the election is often referred to as America's Brexit, a referendum in which you can be sure I voted in, I think it would pay you better mind than to discount other Countiries on such a whim.

I'm not discounting anything. This thread is about Trump getting elected as the US president and my comment was talking about a problem the US is facing. You being from Britain and your experience isn't really relevant here. And racism against whites has not become acceptable. I don't know what news you watch or what websites you frequent but it's a very minor problem in the real world. Also why would it matter if I did vote for her? She was the only decent choice.

3 hours ago, ExtraMana said:

Correction: Hillary supporters are turning on others personally.

Have we been reading the same thread? Why does Trump resonate with you? Because you're tired of non-whites gaining a major foothold in your country?

Now before you guys start calling me racist or whatever I just want to mention that I am considered white in the US and that I'm not one of those people that think white people can't be victims of racism. I've seen it happen to a friend before.

Edited by bigfatround0
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7 minutes ago, bigfatround0 said:

I'm not discounting anything. This thread is about Trump getting elected as the US president and my comment was talking about a problem the US is facing. You being from Britain and your experience isn't really relevant here. And why would it matter if I did vote for her? She was the only decent choice.

Have we been reading the same thread? Why does Trump resonate with you? Because you're tired of non-whites gaining a major foothold in your country?

Now before you guys start calling me racist or whatever I just want to mention that I am considered white in the US and that I'm not one of those people that think white people can't be victims of racism. I've seen it happen to a friend before.

I think, to maybe phrase it better, is that many Trump supporters feel demonized by the left, simply because they don't agree with many policy proposals by the left. For example, I don't care for Bernie Sanders because of the effects his tax plan would have on my 401k (basically make it pointless for me to put any money into it). However, when voicing that opinion, I could find myself being told that I don't care about the poor, or that I don't care about college student loans (despite the fact I have about $8k in debt right now) etc etc. 

So to place that on the Trump v Clinton level. You get many of the progressive left calling out the more conservative whites as racists, and bigots. Why? Sure, racists exist on the right, and likely in higher numbers. But most people voting for Trump, I've seen, are not voting for him because of racial issues. They aren't voting for him because he plans to build a wall (the press would lead you to believe that is the only reason). Many of them voted for him because their voices are not being heard by the left. Being a rural, poor, white person essentially leaves you abandoned by politicians. The Democrats ignored them for years, focusing instead only on building a coalition of minorities to propel them to offices across the nation. It worked too, because you had a good person running the show with Obama, who I feel was not a great president, but also is not a terrible one. He did what he thought was best for the nation. 

Clinton on the other hand is perceived as corrupt, and uncaring by those poor rural whites. She only wants to pander to minorities and feminists in their eyes. They might not be right, but perception is everything, and she did almost nothing to counter that. Her husband recognized this and thats why many sources said he was very angry at Hillary's campaign staff. Bernie Sanders has also recognized it, saying that it was embarrassing for the Democrats to lose so badly with that demographic. 

Unfortunately, in the immediate aftermath of the election, many mainstream dems still have yet to figure this out, and continue to label Trump supporters as racists, bigots, misogynists, homophobic and so on. Unfairly demonizing the very people you need to rely on to win elections is well... not a winning plan by any stretch of the imagination. 

 

And before you try to label me a Trump supporter, I can't stand Donald Trump. He is a terrible human being, and a terrible choice for President, but I also recognize why he won, and how he won. And it needs to be a lesson that everyone's genuine problems should matter. Dismissing someone's problem because they are privileged is just as bad as telling someone they aren't human because they are transgendered, or are a criminal because of their race. It only serves to divide people up even more. 

 

I just want to dispel the notion that all Trump supporters voted for him to bring back Jim Crow laws, or to put BLM members in jail or whatever. Most of them voted for him, because no one else would listen to their voices, and their problems. 

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14 minutes ago, solidbatman said:

long ass text

I agree with you on everything except that the majority of left leaning people are calling Trump supporters racist. I've seen it happen but I've seen more of the extremely right leaning Trump supporters actually saying racist shit about minorities and about the First Family. It's a self fulfilling prophecy created by the racist Trump supporters.

Edited by bigfatround0
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2 minutes ago, bigfatround0 said:

I agree with you on everything except that the majority of left leaning people are calling Trump supporters racist. I've seen it happen but I've seen more of the extremely right leaning Trump supporters actually saying racist shit about left leaning minorities and about the First Family.

Deplorable on both sides I'm afraid :( 

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1 minute ago, Zakamutt said:

Sadly, same thing happens with your link. I was able to watch it using https://www.proxysite.com/youtube/ though.

Really? That use to work for me, but I guess it has been a while since I last tried. Thanks for link though; I'll have to bookmark this. Glad you're able to watch it. :)

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Yeah, I had to pirate this episode too.

But it's better that not many people can see it as it's the worst Last Week Tonight episode by far. I'm actually kind of offended by how bad it is even though I'm already not a fan of it.

Instead of trying to build bridges which is the most important thing right now, Oliver fuels the hate and dividedness even more.
I know how much of a libtard John Oliver is, but saying that journalists should report biased and opinionated (if they have the right opinion that is lol) is one of the worst things he said in his show. I also like how he spends ten minutes telling us that Trump is a liar and we should feel guilty for not voting for Hillary. Oh the irony!

In the end he blames everyone but himself for the end of the world which is apparently right now. So much unironic self-righteousness, it's kinda disgusting. It's like he's desperately trying to prove his critics right: "This show makes people dumb." 

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9 minutes ago, Tyrosyn said:

Instead of trying to build bridges which is the most important thing right now, Oliver fuels the hate and dividedness even more.

#Ratings

Anyway, he's not a journalist, he's a comedian and commentator. He doesn't try to make his stuff objective, it's pretty much his opinion wrapped up in bits of humour. It's like reading a Jeremy Clarkson article.

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4 hours ago, bigfatround0 said:

I'm not discounting anything. This thread is about Trump getting elected as the US president and my comment was talking about a problem the US is facing. You being from Britain and your experience isn't really relevant here. And racism against whites has not become acceptable. I don't know what news you watch or what websites you frequent but it's a very minor problem in the real world. Also why would it matter if I did vote for her? She was the only decent choice.

Have we been reading the same thread? Why does Trump resonate with you? Because you're tired of non-whites gaining a major foothold in your country?

Now before you guys start calling me racist or whatever I just want to mention that I am considered white in the US and that I'm not one of those people that think white people can't be victims of racism. I've seen it happen to a friend before.

You told me that my opinion is not relevant because I was from Britain and now your backpedelling as if you weren't trying to exclude my opinion. Now your inferring I'm racist. This is pathetic, I can tell your a Hillary supporter from the amount of identity politics and moral entrepreneurship this post reeks of. I'm not sorry the better candidate got through, your just going to have to learn to deal with it instead of using every oppurtunity to lash out and try to claim that every Trump voter is racist as I've seen you do to many others in this thread. It's utterly disgraceful quite frankly and I've reported it.

Edited by ExtraMana
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18 minutes ago, ExtraMana said:

You told me that my opinion is not relevant because I was from Britain and now your backpedelling as if you weren't trying to exclude my opinion. Now your inferring I'm racist. This is pathetic, I can tell your a Hillary supporter from the amount of identity politics and moral entrepreneurship this post reeks of. I'm not sorry the better candidate got through, your just going to have to learn to deal with it instead of using every oppurtunity to lash out and try to claim that every Trump voter is racist as I've seen you do to many others in this thread. It's utterly disgraceful quite frankly and I've reported it.

It's not relevant because you're not from the US. This is a thread about the next US president, not about the next British prime minister. And I didn't call you racist or infer that you were one. That was an honest question and that is a legit reason to be upset. I understand that some white people might feel threatened by the growing number of minorities. And I'm not upset Trump won but he's damn sure not the best candidate. Also, what comments are you talking about? I don't think I called anyone racist or implied that they were one. You can take a look at my comments again if you want. So go ahead and report me. The mods won't find fault in them. Quit being easily offended and go back to your safe space.

Edited by bigfatround0
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I'm... Kind of sad my thread was merged with all these other threads. Honestly, who the hell decided it was a good idea to merge every single thread that even mentioned Trump? Mine was titled "Trump is America", and was about an article that mainly pointed out how Trump's attitude and personality mirrored your average oppressive dictator, dictators that America has supported to keep it's foreign interests intact. It had little to nothing to do with Trump's election, which is what this thread has become. Just because multiple threads are talking about the same person, doesn't mean they're all the same topic. This move was done in poor taste, and I hope it doesn't happen again. I'm now reluctant to make any new thread related the US politics, in fear that it's just going to be awkwardly buried here...

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7 hours ago, babiker said:

I'm now reluctant to make any new thread related the US politics, in fear that it's just going to be awkwardly buried here...

I don't believe it will be. This was probably a one off. The mods were probably reacting to the 6 different Trump threads that sprung up and they may or may not have over-reacted :P 

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  • 5 weeks later...

What do you guys think of this new "fake news" campaing

 

To me it seems the West is trying to indirectly silence News networks that go against their narrative. Those news networks may not neccesarily speak the truth or perhaps some of them do but silencing News Networks is not Liberal at all and is against any Liberal mans ideals and values.

 

We must stand strong and protect the freedom of press? Or do you guys think their intentions and their judgement of what is legitimate and illegitimate news are sincere? I do not because to me it looks like a desperate move since they lost to Trump and his Alt Right media.

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2 hours ago, Dilan Omer said:

What do you guys think of this new "fake news" campaing

 

To me it seems the West is trying to indirectly silence News networks that go against their narrative. Those news networks may not neccesarily speak the truth or perhaps some of them do but silencing News Networks is not Liberal at all and is against any Liberal mans ideals and values.

 

We must stand strong and protect the freedom of press? Or do you guys think their intentions and their judgement of what is legitimate and illegitimate news are sincere? I do not because to me it looks like a desperate move since they lost to Trump and his Alt Right media.

I personally think smth should indeed be done regarding the fake news, but not to the level of censorship or forbidding them. I've seen plenty of people actually believe some bullshit and, even when made to realize it was all a dumb fake news, they nevertheless retained some of the opinion that had been caused due to it.

Did they affect the elections? Certainly. To the point where they actually decided them? Eh, dunno... The results were certainly close and, no offense intended to americans, but if there's one country that could get the opinion of millions swayed by ignorance and lack of critical thought, the US comes pretty high in the list. But there were plenty more reasons for Clinton's defeat, so I don't think it was decisive or anything.

Still, I do believe they should be forced to be more open about their news being fake, certainly more than a small line of text at the very bottom of their page, or no message at all.

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Many news sites have an 'opinion' section which is full of stupidity, propaganda, and irrational conclusions. The difference is they're clearly labelled 'opinion'. News sites should be held to a rigorous standard and if they fail to meet this standard of excellence then they should no longer be called 'news'. 

That being said, if anybody out there gets most of their information from blogs they automatically forfeit their right to complain about fake news. Just saying.

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I think a lot of this "fake news" business started when the Fairness Doctrine was abolished by the FCC and attempts to renew it were vetoed by Ronald Reagan. Unfortunately, everything that supporters of the doctrine claimed would happen have in fact come to pass, and now Americans are effectively divided because of what's being put out on the news.
 

2 hours ago, Jun Inoue said:

if there's one country that could get the opinion of millions swayed by ignorance and lack of critical thought, the US comes pretty high in the list.

That's where I have a beef with our education system. The impression that I got while I was attending k-12 was that American schools are outdated in how they teach students. Until I started participating in discussions online, my critical thinking skills were never very sharp, and they still aren't as good as I'd like them to be. For my research paper, I used an article from The Atlantic to explain how schools are still only there to meet the needs of an industrialized America. As it stands right now, America does not need a workforce that is capable of handling simple tasks effectively -- it needs a more creative embrace to teaching students how to think outside the box -- but that's how schools are still operating. Not only is this system making it difficult for average citizens to get by with a healthy career, but it's also affecting peoples' judgment in making rational decisions regarding how their government operates. Another disadvantage is that certain news channels are regularly misleading and deceptive because of their freedom to tell just one side of the story, which essentially forces people to do research they don't want to or are unable to conduct. It's a royal mess when you think about it.

In a way, I think American stupidity is justified. There are far too many flaws in how our government operates, and I think most issues can be traced back to dark money.

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