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An article about how Trump is, to Americans, what America has been to the rest of the world

Mainly posting this here because I know politics interests quite a few people around Fuwa. I found this article to be ironically true, well written and rather unnerving. I particularly loved the small paragraph about Hitler. Here are a few quotes:

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Trump is every single Arab general or dictator the US has befriended and kept in power.

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Liberal America is now scared that Trump will do to America what America has done to the world. It was just "foreign policy" when America set up lunatic puppet dictators just like Trump to torture, maim, and murder their own people around the globe to protect its "national security interest".

 

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Even if he won, Trump wouldn't have the power to make himself a dictator.  He's a fringe lunatic and the slightest hint of corruption would immediately get him impeached, possibly by his own party.  And even if he somehow managed to overcome the checks and balances and do what he says he'll do, the world would suffer for it.  Anyone cheering on Trump as "what America deserves" is cheering for a disintegration of the world order that has kept our world mostly at peace since the 1940's--and that's just foolish.

Seems to me like the writer was more interested in taking a swipe at the US than providing any useful policy insight.

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11 hours ago, babiker said:

An article about how Trump is, to Americans, what America has been to the rest of the world

Mainly posting this here because I know politics interests quite a few people around Fuwa. I found this article to be ironically true, well written and rather unnerving. I particularly loved the small paragraph about Hitler. Here are a few quotes:

Keep this shit off Fuwanovel, please.

1 hour ago, sanahtlig said:

Anyone cheering on Trump as "what America deserves" is cheering for a disintegration of the order that has kept our world mostly at peace since the 1940's--and that's just foolish.

"World order", my ass.

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22 minutes ago, Narcosis said:

"World order", my ass.

It's mostly correct. That America was so clearly the dominant superpower militarily, and could enter countries when conflicts just began and end it decisively, was a major factor in the 'decline of war' the world has recently seen. Whether people agree on the side they've chosen is another matter, America HAS made mistakes, but it's in their interest (economically and for other reasons) to keep the world stable and at peace and it's what they've done (while forwarding their own agenda. Never mistake that.)

In fact the last decade (00-10) was the most peaceful decade (going by % of deaths in conflict) since records began (many many centuries ago.) Maybe that's because they were the only country capable of smacking down another country from across the globe at a moment's notice. Whether people agree with that method is another matter entirely.

What you see in Syria at the moment is what happens when America (or any dominant military power) doesn't have the strength (or will) to end a conflict early. Look at Europe -> they're clamouring for a 'peaceful resolution.' Many years and countless deaths later, not to mention the largest refugee problem since WW2, how's that 'peaceful solution' looking? The EU just met 2 days ago to threaten Putin with sanctions, and they couldn't even agree to do that (Italy lead a block of countries against it. Because of economic reasons.)

So yeah, America's military might is largely responsible for the peaceful times we've enjoyed. 

ourworldindata_wars-after-1946-state-bas 

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4 hours ago, Rooke said:

It's mostly correct. That America was so clearly the dominant superpower militarily, and could enter countries when conflicts just began and end it decisively, was a major factor in the 'decline of war' the world has recently seen. Whether people agree on the side they've chosen is another matter, America HAS made mistakes, but it's in their interest (economically and for other reasons) to keep the world stable and at peace and it's what they've done (while forwarding their own agenda. Never mistake that.)

In fact the last decade (00-10) was the most peaceful decade (going by % of deaths in conflict) since records began (many many centuries ago.) Maybe that's because they were the only country capable of smacking down another country from across the globe at a moment's notice. Whether people agree with that method is another matter entirely.

What you see in Syria at the moment is what happens when America (or any dominant military power) doesn't have the strength (or will) to end a conflict early. Look at Europe -> they're clamouring for a 'peaceful resolution.' Many years and countless deaths later, not to mention the largest refugee problem since WW2, how's that 'peaceful solution' looking? The EU just met 2 days ago to threaten Putin with sanctions, and they couldn't even agree to do that (Italy lead a block of countries against it. Because of economic reasons.)

So yeah, America's military might is largely responsible for the peaceful times we've enjoyed. 

ourworldindata_wars-after-1946-state-bas 

I highly doubt it's for the best interest of those countries since one can see the abysmal difference in income inequality between America and said countries.

Those people want to take their own decisions, who are we to decide for them?

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5 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

Even if he won, Trump wouldn't have the power to make himself a dictator.  He's a fringe lunatic and the slightest hint of corruption would immediately get him impeached, possibly by his own party.  And even if he somehow managed to overcome the checks and balances and do what he says he'll do, the world would suffer for it.  Anyone cheering on Trump as "what America deserves" is cheering for a disintegration of the order that has kept our world mostly at peace since the 1940's--and that's just foolish.

Seems to me like the writer was more interested in taking a swipe at the US than providing any useful policy insight.

Well, I do have to admit that the writer exaggerated quite a bit on what Trump would do if he became president. I do highly doubt things would get that bad before he's stopped. But I wonder how much he can get away with without getting kicked out of the white house. He has already broken most lows when it comes to the front runners for the presidency.

And I do agree that America falling apart would have implications on the entire world- And probably the end of the current peace. But then, what would happen? Would another super power become the world's "police"? Or would nuclear world war break out?  Well, America falling apart won't happen over night, so I assume I probably won't know the answer to those questions anytime soon... But all empires and states must come to an end : >

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3 minutes ago, babiker said:

But then, what would happen? Would another super power become the world's "police"? Or would nuclear world war break out?  Well, America falling apart won't happen over night, so I assume I probably won't know the answer to those questions anytime soon... But all empires and states must come to an end : >

Climate change is predicted to increase global strife as people are displaced by more frequent and more intense natural disasters, as well as gradually changing weather patterns.  Competition for dwindling resources will be inevitable.

The next world war could change the face of our planet.  For everyone's sake, we need to prolong the current peace as long as possible--or at least until I've died of natural causes.  Then go nuts, for all I care.

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5 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

Climate change is predicted to increase global strife as people are displaced by more frequent and more intense natural disasters, as well as gradually changing weather patterns.  Competition for dwindling resources will be inevitable.

The next world war could change the face of our planet.  For everyone's sake, we need to prolong the current peace as long as possible--or at least until I've died of natural causes.  Then go nuts, for all I care.

You can see certain patterns clearly repeating. For all I care, there's russian military gathering at the Ukraine's eastern borders. We don't know what might happen next; might be just a show off, preparation or gods know what Russia has in mind this time.

People love to look for convinient excuses to justify needless bloodshed; few hundred years ago it was trade, then slavery. The First World War erupted from the most absurd accident ever. You had struggles for power, oil and now it's mostly politics and worldwide agendas. I guess climate changes will be next on the list.

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Trump isn't an RPG's final boss, for christ's sake. He's either plain stupid or plain evil, but he's not going to destroy the world. Even if he becomes president, I'm pretty sure nothing super big will happen (Bush was already atrocious for your foreign politics, anyway) save for ignoring global warming for a while, I guess. 

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Trump is so dumb that there's a decent number of people convinced his campaign has either been a huge joke or just a "let's see if this rolls" idea that got out of hand. And, really, it makes sense. You see Trump, you read his ideas and politics, and realise how little he seems to understand about anything moderately related with ruling a country. Most 3rd party professionals agree that his plans and ideas will either not work or set the country's progress back.

So while it's an interesting article (it does make kind of a morbid, ironic sense that the US might suffer what they have done to so many others), Trump wouldn't really have that much power anyway, with all democrats against him, and lots of republicans also completely refusing to support him. I'd say Trump represents the part of the US that has still not quite caught up with the rest of the "modern" world, which is why you'll see that most of his loyal support groups are basically bigots.
I personally believe he never had a real chance at presidency.

Edit: Also

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  • 2 weeks later...

If stuff that WikiLeaks released isn't enough to indict Hillary then nothing is (someone made nice summary http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/). Media in europe only publishes official DNC stance and are very pro-Clinton. Our foreign policy is built for Clinton's win which could be the reason. Either Clinton wins and gets shortly indicted or does a series of coverups using friendly officials (like Comey) and spends 4 years shadowed with scandals. Other chance is for Trump to win and ??.  US politics don't usually interest me but this also affects other countries.

yIb2FN.png

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2 hours ago, pual said:

If stuff that WikiLeaks released isn't enough to indict Hillary then nothing is (someone made nice summary http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/). Media in europe only publishes official DNC stance and are very pro-Clinton. Our foreign policy is built for Clinton's win which could be the reason. Either Clinton wins and gets shortly indicted or does a series of coverups using friendly officials (like Comey) and spends 4 years shadowed with scandals. Other chance is for Trump to win and ??.  US politics don't usually interest me but this also affects other countries.

yIb2FN.png

You don't seem to know much about media in Europe.

Also when talking about crimes and scandals, you might want to be more objective and realise that both are swamped by them. The only real difference is that Clinton has experience and preparation for the job, and Trump could be substituted by a 6-yo and few would notice the difference, both in attitude and aparent presidential politic and economics skills.

You could also inform yourself better, and realise that 650.000 was the total of emails in the laptop that was seized in a separate investigation of someone else. So, not all emails were related to Clinton (duh), and many were duplicates of the ones that had already been previously investigated. It's time to drop the "huge conspiracy" charade.

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59 minutes ago, Decay said:

Oh this thread was resurrected? And with pro-trump nonsense? 

Here, have this amazingly depressing rant: http://lazenby.tumblr.com/post/152822012062/it-is-extremely-disappointing-to-see-that-you

Today's the day, boi. I'm personally quite interested (apart from how important this is) to see how the "both candidates are super close to each other with tons of undecided voters" thing ends up like. The "right-wing extremist" tends to have somewhat of an advatange in these cases, I feel, as plenty of people wanna vote for them but are embarassed to say it openly when asked.

Also, that article perfectly explained why the whole "Hillary is a monster!" completely misses the point on why she's the only candidate that could possibly be a functional president.

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Well, the easy answer would be the cliched ones - fear, racism, misogyny, etc. And while I have no doubt they played a role in it, it's shallow to only blame those.

Hillary Clinton was never a great candidate from the start. She's the walking epitome of white privilege and yet wants to shame those for having it. And even though no one has made anything stick to her, a lot of people will say that it's money and power that protects her from it sticking. This reinforces the notion that there's two systems, one for the wealthy and powerful, and one for the rest of us. (Not so ironically, Donald Trump applies to all of this as well.)

Some would claim the dumbing down of America. I don't think it's so much that as elitism - where you TELL people how wrong they are and how right you are. Most people don't like being told anything, even if they are wrong. So if you keep telling people Hillary is the only choice there is, expect backlash. And we can gloss over Wikileaks much like most of the media did... don't get me wrong, Trump admitting he could use his status to grab pussy is horrifying and wrong, but it was also a leaked tape and it was hammered on constantly. Anything pertaining to the DNC leaks? Not so much. It helped reinforce the notion (right or wrong) that most media was in the tank for Clinton.

Polls are also showing Hillary didn't energize the minority votes as well as Obama did - she lost ground with blacks and hispanics from Obama's tally in 2012. Small amounts for sure, but in a tight race a small amount can make for a big loss.

There's probably more, but I'm tired as fuck from trying to calm people down that it's not the end of the world.

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