Muv Luv series question

[WinterfuryZX]

1 minute ago, Deep Blue said:

what about  (dont read this derg heavy spoilers both of them)

  Hide contents

the part where sumika tells takeru how she was raped and abused by the BETA until she was only a brain? That scene has a lot of impact and it is a pivotal part of the plot

 

Even the

"experiment"

scene is somehow present (ofc heavily edited) in the console release if I'm not wrong, I don't know the details.

[Deep Blue]

Just now, WinterfuryZX said:

Even the

  Reveal hidden contents

"experiment"

scene is somehow present (ofc heavily edited) in the console release if I'm not wrong, I don't know the details.

Spoiler

I would imagine that it's preserved in someway because without that scene you can't progress with the plot... now, how is it preserved, what they censored, what not, is a gamble.
I wouldn't want to touch a censored or all version of alternative by any means, for example when sumika starts to see how takeru had sex with all the members in the different worlds and goes crazy... how can they explain that? Do they show him kissing them? Why would she feel so much jealously from that? There are probably ways to get away with it but then again alternative is not a novel that can be censored, is not like taking out the eroge solves the problems like with extra and unlimited  in fact now that I think of it without the eroge in muv luv the part that I just mentioned in alternative doesnt make sense either.

 

[Dergonu]

This thread just turned into a minefield... Please don't accidentally click the spoilers Derg

[ChaosRaven]

Spoiler

 

In retrospect, I wish I would have just skipped MuvLuv and went straight to Alternative. It had so many back-blendings, that everything that happened before was explained to death anyway and the back-blendings itself would have been more interesting. MuvLuv itself simply wasn't worth reading.

I also would have appreciated if they would have replaced the ridiculous sex uniforms from MuvLuv completely in Alternative and not just midway. Alternative would then have been almost purified from some of the worst parts of its kusoge roots.

 

 

[Deep Blue]

3 minutes ago, ChaosRaven said:

In retrospect, I wish I would have just skipped MuvLuv and went straight to Alternative. It had so many back-blendings, that everything that happened before was explained to death anyway and the back-blendings itself would have been more interesting. MuvLuv itself simply wasn't worth reading.

I also would have appreciated if they would have replaced the ridiculous sex uniforms from MuvLuv completely in Alternative and not just midway. Alternative would then have been almost purified from some of the worst parts of its kusoge roots.

reading alternative without extra and unlimited doesnt make any sense...

Spoiler

and the suits were designed like that on purpose, they were fighting in a war and there wasnt room for being shy so it was a way to force them to lose that self-awareness of their bodies

 

[ChaosRaven]

2 hours ago, Deep Blue said:

 

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and the suits were designed like that on purpose, they were fighting in a war and there wasnt room for being shy so it was a way to force them to lose that self-awareness of their bodies

 

Spoiler

Yeah sure, modern armies must be so dumb that they aren't getting their uniforms from sex-shops nowadays, since being 'shy' is certainly the biggest problem for soldiers in war and has to be adressed with utmost importance. 

 

[Decay]

The ML uniform thing is definitely an excuse and not a proper justification. Like yes, it's a reason that they came up with. It's just an insanely bad one.

[Deep Blue]

14 hours ago, ChaosRaven said:

Spoiler

Yeah sure, modern armies must be so dumb that they aren't getting their uniforms from sex-shops nowadays, since being 'shy' is certainly the biggest problem for soldiers in war and has to be adressed with utmost importance. 

 

please use spoilers if you are going to talk about the game

Spoiler

you are reading a vn about humans fighting aliens inside big robots and most of them are high school students for some reason ... and you are complaining about that? 

 

[Dergonu]

Just now, Deep Blue said:

please use spoilers if you are going to talk about the game

^

Please do, even small stuff. Remember this is a thread made by someone who hasn't played the games.

[ChaosRaven]

You can see the uniforms pretty much on every screenshot and it's even on the cover of Alternative, so a spoiler for it doesn't make sense. Spoilers should be used for story relevant details and not for trivialities like clothing. Otherwise we can pretty much delete 90% of all posts in the forum where a VN is discussed.

[Dergonu]

4 minutes ago, ChaosRaven said:

You can see the uniforms pretty much on every screenshot, so a spoiler for it doesn't make sense. Spoilers should be used for story relevant details and not for trivialities like clothing. Otherwise we can pretty much delete 90% of all posts in the forum where a VN is discussed.

That's fine, but keep in mind this is not a discussion thread about the game at all. There is a bit of a difference there. I would prefer to experience the games without knowing this and that about what is coming. Using a spoiler tag takes two seconds, so although you might not deem it necessary, it does just ensure that no one gets upset from what they deem spoilery.

[ChaosRaven]

1 minute ago, Dergonu said:

That's fine, but keep in mind this is not a discussion thread about the game at all. There is a bit of a difference there. I would prefer to experience the games without knowing this and that about what is coming. Using a spoiler tag takes two seconds, so although you might not deem it necessary, it does just ensure that no one gets upset from what they deem spoilery.

Again, the uniforms are clearly visible on the COVER IMAGE of Alternative!!! Do you always play VN's without even looking at the cover because you consider it a spoiler?!

[Dergonu]

12 minutes ago, ChaosRaven said:

Again, the uniforms are clearly visible on the COVER IMAGE of Alternative!!! Do you always play VN's without even looking at the cover because you consider it a spoiler?!

I think it is better that way, even when it is something minor. It might seem totally trivial to someone who has experienced the game already, but yes, there are people who want to go into a new experience completely unspoiled. Seeing that a character wears a uniform on a cover, and hearing information about what they are and how they are used in the game is two very different things. Please just use spoilers, even for minor things if you feel like discussing the game is needed in this thread.
Just to be safe and to not upset anyone, I think that is the best way to go about it. There is no reason for a discussion about the game in this thread to begin with anyways.
I appriciate the information and your view on the content in the first game and alternative though.

[Vorathiel]

'It's on a cover of Alternative'.
I don't like that argument at all. If, for example, main character is to lose his whole arm at the climax of the first 'game/book/movie', and then poster for the sequel presents him without an arm, it would be spoilerish for people who are yet to read the first part. Same with Muv Luv. Everything about Alternative is a spoiler, even the promo arts, official covers and screnshots on vndb.

[ChaosRaven]

2 hours ago, Dergonu said:

I think it is better that way, even when it is something minor. It might seem totally trivial to someone who has experienced the game already, but yes, there are people who want to go into a new experience completely unspoiled. Seeing that a character wears a uniform on a cover, and hearing information about what they are and how they are used in the game is two very different things. Please just use spoilers, even for minor things if you feel like discussing the game is needed in this thread.

It's your thread and therefore it's your call, so I've corrected my relevant posts and put them into spoiler tags. But if you criticize others I'd appreciate it, if you'd follow your own words and use spoiler tags in posts like this too, where you're openly talking about details in Maggot baits.

1 hour ago, Vorathiel said:

'It's on a cover of Alternative'.
I don't like that argument at all. If, for example, main character is to lose his whole arm at the climax of the first 'game/book/movie', and then poster for the sequel presents him without an arm, it would be spoilerish for people who are yet to read the first part. Same with Muv Luv. Everything about Alternative is a spoiler, even the promo arts, official covers and screnshots on vndb.

That would be quite the special case. But you aren't exactly an angel either if it comes to spoiler tags. Like here where your spoiling details about Sharin no Kuni.

The two links I've given are actually not meant as petty nitpicking. I just want to make clear that we somewhere have to set a 'reasonable' limit for the usage of spoiler tags, or otherwise we can put pretty much every post in spoiler tags or this forum will degenerate into a real mobbing circus where everyone blames each other for not putting spoiler tags on some ridiculous bogus details. The last five pages of the "What are you playing" thread would be already enough to send about two dozen warnings out at least. There are even posts where entire walkthrough details were posted. So do we behave like adults and reserve spoiler tags for important information or do we all start to troll each other for every minor detail? In the latter case the complete "What are you playing" thread should be deleted because it's a complete hotbed of sin. And I surely wouldn't envy the admins for the approximately 50 posts they'd have to censor each day.

Anyway, sorry this went completely off-topic, but I think it was necessary to say to make people aware that they might be sitting in a glass house when starting throwing stones. Sorry again, last post from me in this thread, so no more off-topic from me.

[Vorathiel]

25 minutes ago, ChaosRaven said:

That would be quite the special case. But you aren't exactly an angel either if it comes to spoiler tags. Like here where your spoiling details about Sharin no Kuni.

The two links I've given are actually not meant as petty nitpicking. I just want to make clear that we somewhere have to set a 'reasonable' limit for the usage of spoiler tags, or otherwise we can put pretty much every post in spoiler tags or this forum will degenerate into a real mobbing circus where everyone blames each other for not putting spoiler tags on some ridiculous bogus details. The last five pages of the "What are you playing" thread would be already enough to send about two dozen warnings out at least. There are even posts where entire walkthrough details were posted. So do we behave like adults and reserve spoiler tags for important information or do we all start to troll each other for every minor detail? In the latter case the complete "What are you playing" thread should be deleted because it's a complete hotbed of sin. And I surely wouldn't envy the admins for the approximately 50 posts they'd have to censor each day.

'What are you playing'... well, everybody at start of their post are writting what are they gonna talk about, and then they're discussing what they read. Spoilers there are obvious (and still, the 'hardest' ones are spoiler tagged). 
About Sharin - that was really minor. It was you, who confused it with something much more bigger, but okay - I've written it badly, so it could be missintepreted. My bad. 
About MLA - I don't say that everything should be spoiler tagged, but if the thread is just a few questions asked by someone who had not read ML yet, then talking about any details of setting (like suit design) is just unnecessary spoiler.

[Dergonu]

1 hour ago, ChaosRaven said:

Snip

Thanks, I appriciate it. Certain threads, like this one, where the OP clearly has not played the game in question, does warrant the use of spoilers if you ask me. (And on that note, so does the post you linked from me as well, so I'll edit that once I'm home.) I was not trying to sound like I was sitting on a high horse criticizing you, thinking you were the only one in the wrong, (sorry if it seemed like I was); I quite simply did not want to get spoiled. This is like Vorathiel pointed out, a thread that was made by someone who clearly has not played the games at all, so discussing said game in the thread in itself might be a bit out of place, at least if it's outside spoiler tags.

[EcchiOujisama]

The KimiNozo game is a mixed bag, much like Muv-Luv, but you'll get more out of Muv-Luv if you watch the anime first.  The anime is fantastic and gives  a better understanding of two characters that show up in Muv-Luv. I recommend using the anime as the determining factor for whether or not you want to play the game.

As far as the backporting goes, that leads to the question of why they would even bother doing all of this work with the PS3 version. The PS3 and Xbox 360 versions are both supposed to be the same port of the all ages PC version - the only difference between them is the opening video. The Xbox 360 version with the newer engine was already ported to the PC with all of the H content restored as the Windows 7 version. Unless there is some massive difference between the PS3 and Windows 7 version I'm missing, in its own way this explanation makes even less sense.   

[Dergonu]

Just now, EcchiOujisama said:

The KimiNozo game is a mixed bag, much like Muv-Luv, but you'll get more out of Muv-Luv if you watch the anime first.  The anime is fantastic and gives  a better understanding of two characters that show up in Muv-Luv. I recommend using the anime as the determining factor for whether or not you want to play the game.

As far as the backporting goes, that leads to the question of why they would even bother doing all of this work with the PS3 version. The PS3 and Xbox 360 versions are both supposed to be the same port of the all ages PC version - the only difference between them is the opening video. The Xbox 360 version with the newer engine was already ported to the PC with all of the H content restored as the Windows 7 version. Unless there is some massive difference between the PS3 and Windows 7 version I'm missing, in its own way this explanation makes even less sense.   

Ah I see, cool. I'll check that out, at the very least.

As for the porting, like the Muv luv translator said in the post I linked earlier, the H content was not just removed in the console port, but it was replaced with new filler content. (Similar to Grisaia.) Why they chose to work with this version to begin with, I don't know, but they did so there isn't much we can do there. But yeah, that is the reason porting work is required, since there is content there which technically takes up the space where the H content is supposed to be.

The new, H patched version will either then remove this "new" content and restore the old H so the game is in its original state, or actually add in the H on the side of the new filler content, like with the fan patch made for Grisaia no Kajitsu a while back. Which one of these two they go for, I don't know, but either way, it's taking some time. (Though the amount of time really is quite extensive.) If you want to ask them more in detail, you can try their forum or their official twitter.

[WinterfuryZX]

5 hours ago, Decay said:

The ML uniform thing is definitely an excuse and not a proper justification. Like yes, it's a reason that they came up with. It's just an insanely bad one.

I saw a similar concept in "divergent" movie trilogy, there's no sex uniforms, but the dauntless bath/toilets are 100% shared between male and females without distinction probably for similar reasons as mla.

Anyway, once it was established those

 

sex uniforms were the cadets uniforms, changing them at the beginning of alternative wouldn't have made any sense at all.

And in MLA worldline the pilots are not high school students anyway.

[Formlose Gestalt]

7 hours ago, Dergonu said:

The new, H patched version will either then remove this "new" content and restore the old H so the game is in its original state, or actually add in the H on the side of the new filler content, like with the fan patch made for Grisaia no Kajitsu a while back. Which one of these two they go for, I don't know, but either way, it's taking some time. (Though the amount of time really is quite extensive.) If you want to ask them more in detail, you can try their forum or their official twitter.

I remember a podcast where part of the translation team mentioned that the patch would probably add an ingame (menu) option to turn on or off the H-content. I guess that would be like the FSN Realta Nua patch then. But obviously the patch was not finalized at that time so who knows if they actually implemented it that way.

Here is the link to said podcast:
https://alternativeprojects.wordpress.com/2016/05/30/arg-unhinged-cast-ii/

 

Besides that I think there is a chance that the patch for Alternative would take less time than the one for Extra/Unlimited simply due to the fact, that the team had work to do on Alternative after they finished the first game, and I guess the patch for the first game took a bit of backseat in comparison. But that is obviously just my guess.