Fall 2016 Anime Discussion

[havoc]

1 minute ago, Jun Inoue said:

This is why we can't have cool things. It was true, anime is dead.

Why does having or not having yuri make or brake a war anime, im confused?

[Jun Inoue]

28 minutes ago, havoc said:

Why does having or not having yuri make or brake a war anime, im confused?

It breaks the setting in Izetta. They propose a setting of World War II with a small twist like Valkyria Chronicles, a small country being invaded. But, then, you watch the different pv and art, and it seems like... it no longer is that much about the war? Or will it? 50/50? The synopsis only makes a vague mention at it ("If I am promised to the princess, then I will fight for her sake." - about which character is this about? The Witch? A soldier?), but after watching the first episode and pvs, it's very clear that the relationship between the Princess and the Witch will be the central theme.

Then, comes the question. Will it be about their relationship while still being about the war? Or will they eclipse it? The first 3/4 of the first episode are awesome, then comes the last scene and plants all those doubts, with all that "PRINCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESS" screaming.
They are trying to mix 2 genres that don't go together all that well. So, maybe it'll become awesome and the Princess-Witch dynamic will give the series a cool point of view, or maybe the anime will go full Japanese and become more about seeing cute girls being implicitly full-on yuri, but never too much.

It's not as much about being yuri, but rather that anime rarely does yuri properly, in understanding that properly equals not being cheap fan-service, but an actual relationship. If they want to sell a serious premise about war, I hope they'll be serious about it.

[Kurisu-Chan]

51 minutes ago, Jun Inoue said:

It breaks the setting in Izetta. They propose a setting of World War II with a small twist like Valkyria Chronicles, a small country being invaded. But, then, you watch the different pv and art, and it seems like... it no longer is that much about the war? Or will it? 50/50? The synopsis only makes a vague mention at it ("If I am promised to the princess, then I will fight for her sake." - about which character is this about? The Witch? A soldier?), but after watching the first episode and pvs, it's very clear that the relationship between the Princess and the Witch will be the central theme.

Then, comes the question. Will it be about their relationship while still being about the war? Or will they eclipse it? The first 3/4 of the first episode are awesome, then comes the last scene and plants all those doubts, with all that "PRINCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESS" screaming.
They are trying to mix 2 genres that don't go together all that well. So, maybe it'll become awesome and the Princess-Witch dynamic will give the series a cool point of view, or maybe the anime will go full Japanese and become more about seeing cute girls being implicitly full-on yuri, but never too much.

It's not as much about being yuri, but rather that anime rarely does yuri properly, in understanding that properly equals not being cheap fan-service, but an actual relationship. If they want to sell a serious premise about war, I hope they'll be serious about it.

Bullshit.

 

You saw one episode, labeled it as shit? Wow, you didn't even pay attention to the details that were put in the show?

Your problem then, at least give it a chance. 

The scenarist worked for so ra no wo to and Guilty gear, at least we can be sure he'll nail the war setting right, as for historical weaponry, we have Wargaming.net for that. 

[Jun Inoue]

2 minutes ago, Kurisu-Chan said:

Bullshit.

 

You saw one episode, labeled it as shit? Wow, you didn't even pay attention to the details that were put in the show?

Your problem then, at least give it a chance. 

The scenarist worked for so ra no wo to and Guilty gear, at least we can be sure he'll nail the war setting right, as for historical weaponry, we have Wargaming.net for that. 

Please, try to at least, at least, read what I actually write. Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase.

[Jun Inoue]

We can all be happy Gakuen Handsome will save the season.

[SilverLi]

What do you think about Drifters then? It is still 3 days until the first episode airs. But that and Izetta were kuje the only thing that catched my eye. And the short TV series Soul Buster.

[Kurisu-Chan]

When will Ajin 2 and Occultic;Nine air?

Also, maybe i'll care a bit about Bungo stray dogs, i heard good things about the first season. 

[Kurisu-Chan]

22 hours ago, Jun Inoue said:

We can all be happy Gakuen Handsome will save the season.

That is also why i don't read you, this anime isn't at my taste, but i don't feel like to humiliate those who watch it or appreciate it. 

[SilverLi]

8 minutes ago, Kurisu-Chan said:

When will Ajin 2 and Occultic;Nine air?

Also, maybe i'll care a bit about Bungo stray dogs, i heard good things about the first season. 

Ajin airs in ~3 days and Occultic in ~4 days.

[Kurisu-Chan]

Just now, SilverLi said:

Ajin airs in ~3 days and Occultic in ~4 days.

Thanks alot. 

[Jun Inoue]

24 minutes ago, Kurisu-Chan said:

That is also why i don't read you, this anime isn't at my taste, but i don't feel like to humiliate those who watch it or appreciate it. 

You can make as much fun of it as you want. Gakuen Handsome is a trollish anime that just makes stupid fun of otome games. It's literally that, it's why it was made, it's why its Kickstarter raised so much money. Pointing it out isn't humiliating anyone. The day that honesty in a discussion threat is considered purposely insulting someone will be a sad one.

If you do not read me, though, then maybe stop commenting on my messages...

43 minutes ago, SilverLi said:

What do you think about Drifters then? It is still 3 days until the first episode airs. But that and Izetta were kuje the only thing that catched my eye. And the short TV series Soul Buster.

I have moderate expectations of it. I found the manga some time ago, and thought it had a cool premise, but something from it bogged me down a bit and I didn't get past the first chapters. I'm hoping that TV anime will be a better media for Drifters so, yeah, moderate/high expectations, I guess?

[Kurisu-Chan]

Then why don't you explain yourself then? maybe i won't get triggered at everything you say. 

[Okarin]

Some of you asked why anime is dying. I can point towards formulas done ad nauseam, like harem, spokon etc. If you like harem, you can pick a handful of shows and eschew the rest with full confidence. Spokon, you pick one or two series from your favourite sport and you're done. There's very little innovation in today's anime, and this has been so for quite some time. Would you believe me if I said some tropes and concepts harken back to 30 years ago? Well, that requires quite some knowledge of the medium.

Problem lies in design and writing. But it's a problem of Japanese media as a whole, seeing as most anime are adapted from light novels/manga/visual novels and there's so few original anime for TV. And that problem is that fresh ideas are hard to come by and besides, lots of people copy from you when you have one.

The hope lies, and pretty much has always laid, on blockbuster anime, like Fullmetal Alchemist or Steins Gate, but those happen seldom.

[Kurisu-Chan]

Or Re;Zero too, i feel like you're all too pessimistic, it's true, i don't like that much Re;Zero, but that doesn't mean it's bad, on the contrary.

Look at this year, what did we got?

One punch man, a fresh breath and a cool anime.

Boku dake ga inai machi, a really cool anime, the ending didn't disappoint me because, unlike you, i'm not attracted by a 10 years old girl, and the message of Errased was quite beautiful.

We got Boku no hero academia, the very first shounen i appreciate since...Asura's wrath.

We got Re;Zero, while i don't like the extremely boring and cliché isekai genre, was quite interesting to watch.

And at the same time, we have side stuff really cool, like Orange and Ookami shoujo to kuroi ouji, 2 excellent shoujo anime, we got experimental stuff like Ajin, a 3D anime, right, but a really cool 3D anime, we still have those interesting and a bit edgy stuff like Arslan senki, Joker Game...etc

And even this season, we're getting shuumatsu no izetta, a yuri WW 2 anime, and historically accurate (poor France, still get conquered, i just love how they showed how France was separated, the German zone and the Vichy regime zone) and even more Ajin stuff.

Why you feel like that is simple : you're getting old, that's all, you grew up with stuff, and of course, the more you'll grow up, the more you'll think modern anime are shit, when if you think about it, in the past, there were some really shitty stuff, like ultra shitty (Milky Holmes? Chaos;Head?).

Even in the past, you always quote one or 2 anime from one season, it's interesting how 2011 is known for steins;gate and Madoka, nothing more, if i look at the anichart of 2011, there were some dumb shit, the same can be said for the 2007, or 2005, or 2001...etc

 

[Jun Inoue]

1 hour ago, Kurisu-Chan said:

Then why don't you explain yourself then? maybe i won't get triggered at everything you say. 

I thought it was obvious? As I said, that's the core idea behind Gakuen Handsome. It's a big, silly joke. I don't think it makes sense for me to explain every single thing I ever say or do just in case someone decides to judge me without knowing what I'm talking about...
Just like we did with Keijo, mentioning how "anime is saved," when we obviously mean it's going to be hilariously terrible.

33 minutes ago, Okarin said:

The hope lies, and pretty much has always laid, on blockbuster anime, like Fullmetal Alchemist or Steins Gate, but those happen seldom.

Both being adaptations, not originals.

Anime is dying cuz we have little original works? But... why? The "anime is dying" is fatalistic and ignores how much anime we keep getting, season after season, and how many of them are pretty good, some even really good. We kind of already gave an answer to the discussion when we talked about the Golden Age Syndrome. You can track "anime is dying" messages since years ago, because everyone wonders "where are all the epic anime," not remembering that those cool anime are hand-picked from a long list of anime of varying quality thorough many, many years and season.

[Kurisu-Chan]

Anime is, also, mostly here for promotion, don't forget that.

That's why, every season, few anime rise to the "oh they are cool" stuff.

 

Oh btw, you should appreciate this time, this is the last time i'm talking about Re;Zero in good term.

 

Oh and i lie like Monokuma, so it's also a lie. upupu.

[Okarin]

5 minutes ago, Kurisu-Chan said:

Why you feel like that is simple : you're getting old, that's all, you grew up with stuff, and of course, the more you'll grow up, the more you'll think modern anime are shit, when if you think about it, in the past, there were some really shitty stuff, like ultra shitty (Milky Holmes? Chaos;Head?).

 

I'm old enough to remember Rizelmine (but I never watched that). Or maybe Mahoromatic, done by Gainax for more lulz.

@Jun Inoue You didn't quite get it. Anime isn't great just because it's released directly to TV. Most old series TV-original had also ample budgets, with the usual culprit (Sunrise: Cowboy Bebop, Escaflowne; Gainax: Nadia, Evangelion). Sunrise and Gainax were the Studio Ghibli for 90's TV anime.

Adaptations such as FMA or S;G are great just because the original material also is.

[Kurisu-Chan]

4 minutes ago, Okarin said:

I'm old enough to remember Rizelmine (but I never watched that). Or maybe Mahoromatic, done by Gainax for more lulz.

@Jun Inoue You didn't quite get it. Anime isn't great just because it's released directly to TV. Most old series TV-original had also ample budgets, with the usual culprit (Sunrise: Cowboy Bebop, Escaflowne; Gainax: Nadia, Evangelion). Sunrise and Gainax were the Studio Ghibli for 90's TV anime.

Adaptations such as FMA or S;G are great just because the original material also is.

But, as i pointed out, we still have great anime, and even if you think about it, you only remember 1 or 2 anime per season, but since those seasons are old, you don't remember the WHOLE LOT of shit we had in the past.

 

But yeh, if something, in the past, they had more creative liberty, that's because anime were cheaper, and don't forget the era when french scenarists were working on japanese anime, that helped a lot to create some dank meme stuff.

We still have good anime, we're just more attentive to the shit that happens. 

[Jun Inoue]

2 minutes ago, Okarin said:

@Jun Inoue You didn't quite get it. Anime isn't great just because it's released directly to TV. Most old series TV-original had also ample budgets, with the usual culprit (Sunrise: Cowboy Bebop, Escaflowne; Gainax: Nadia, Evangelion). Sunrise and Gainax were the Studio Ghibli for 90's TV anime.

Adaptations such as FMA or S;G are great just because the original material also is.

Then what's the actual point? Anime is dying because there are no longer great manga/LN/VN to adapt? Not that it really matters, since the answer is kind of the same.

We keep getting great anime quite frequently, and also a bunch of "different" and experimental stuff.

[Okarin]

Either more anime is made today or not. I don't have conclusive data, but I think there's more "shovelware" today.

Also, remember one true thing: older anime had very long seasons (like Ranma), and most shows were 26 or 52 chapters in length. So, if the show was any good, you could enjoy it longer. And most shows didn't get cancelled overnight. My opinion is, precisely, that before it was more of an artisan's work and there was less money around, so if you were to create an anime, you had to be sure it would be good.

It's worth noting that good anime (as in, good blockbusters) keeps happening. Such as Madoka Magica (hey, an original). My point is there's more casual stuff you can pass on with no qualms than in the era before 2000. Enjoyable anime... now that's a subjective definition, but people can enjoy anime from any era, possibly. I enjoyed Angel Beats even though I don't rate it too high, since the show had a lot of bright and dark sides.

[Jun Inoue]

12 minutes ago, Okarin said:

Either more anime is made today or not. I don't have conclusive data, but I think there's more "shovelware" today.

Also, remember one true thing: older anime had very long seasons (like Ranma), and most shows were 26 or 52 chapters in length. So, if the show was any good, you could enjoy it longer. And most shows didn't get cancelled overnight. My opinion is, precisely, that before it was more of an artisan's work and there was less money around, so if you were to create an anime, you had to be sure it would be good.

It's worth noting that good anime (as in, good blockbusters) keeps happening. Such as Madoka Magica (hey, an original). My point is there's more casual stuff you can pass on with no qualms than in the era before 2000. Enjoyable anime... now that's a subjective definition, but people can enjoy anime from any era, possibly. I enjoyed Angel Beats even though I don't rate it too high, since the show had a lot of bright and dark sides.

Well, there's way more anime, so it's only obvious there'll also be much more "regular" anime. Older anime had longer seasons indeed, but they also didn't have as much competition, be it outside the company or inside it in the form of other projects. Or, rather, as you just said, they had to make sure they'd be good, cuz it always was a risky bet. If you made an anime, you better go all the way.

Now, we have tons of 12 episode anime cuz they can afford the variety, so tons of low-key anime get adapted. The kind that otherwise would have never, ever, been green-lighted. As I said, we also have more experimental/different shows, tons of different genres, etc.
So it gives the feeling that anime quality has dropped overall, but that's mostly cuz before we got 2 cool anime and 12 "ok...", while now we get maybe 3 cool anime, 20 "ok..." and 10 "the fuck am I watching."

So if your point is that now there's more regular anime... well, is it really a criticism? I mean, it's not like at the end of every year there's a tally, and if the overall quality of all anime put together and divided by their number drops below a certain score, we all get punished or something.

[Kurisu-Chan]

1 minute ago, Jun Inoue said:

Well, there's way more anime, so it's only obvious there'll also be much more "regular" anime. Older anime had longer seasons indeed, but they also didn't have as much competition, be it outside the company or inside it in the form of other projects. Or, rather, as you just said, they had to make sure they'd be good, cuz it always was a risky bet. If you made an anime, you better go all the way.

Now, we have tons of 12 episode anime cuz they can afford the variety, so tons of low-key anime get adapted. The kind that otherwise would have never, ever, been green-lighted. As I said, we also have more experimental/different shows, tons of different genres, etc.
So it gives the feeling that anime quality has dropped overall, but that's mostly cuz before we got 2 cool anime and 12 "ok...", while now we get maybe 3 cool anime, 20 "ok..." and 10 "the fuck am I watching."

So if your point is that now there's more regular anime... well, is it really a criticism? I mean, it's not like at the end of every year there's a tally, and if the overall quality of all anime put together and divided by their number drops below a certain score, we all get punished or something.

Ahem, this season it was more like 5 cool anime and a lot of "dafuk is this shit"

Taboo Tattoo won the title for the "Why am i even watching this?" award.  

[Jun Inoue]

Just now, Kurisu-Chan said:

Ahem, this season it was more like 5 cool anime and a lot of "dafuk is this shit"

Taboo Tattoo won the title for the "Why am i even watching this?" award.  

I remembered it from its manga, and how generic it was. From what I've heard, it seems it stayed like that; enjoyable if you like mindless shonen/time-killers.

Gotta admit I was gonna at least check it out and... I just kind of forgot...

[Kurisu-Chan]

2 minutes ago, Jun Inoue said:

I remembered it from its manga, and how generic it was. From what I've heard, it seems it stayed like that; enjoyable if you like mindless shonen/time-killers.

Gotta admit I was gonna at least check it out and... I just kind of forgot...

Generic doesn't mean bad totally not pointing at re;zero or steins;gate

 

WOW, i can build a wall of holo!! TAKE THAT TRUMP!! 

[Jun Inoue]

Just now, Kurisu-Chan said:

Generic doesn't mean bad totally not pointing at re;zero or steins;gate

 

WOW, i can build a wall of holo!! TAKE THAT TRUMP!! 

But then people will want to go in, not stay out.