Very very sad news in Sekailand, it appears that Emperor Qian has been overthrown by Emperor Ling

[yorikbad]

31 minutes ago, Rooke said:

No, SP gained a bad reputation from Dovac. The 'constantly breaking promises' thing is just an excuse people use to try and present their irrational hatred as something which stems from reasonable reasons. Often it doesn't. SP don't constantly (relative to how many promises they've made and titles they've released) break their promises at all. They've been a few, but nothing to justify the amount of hatred in the community.

I don't hate them personally, I dissapointed in them. And I just can not believe that one person can generate so much hatred. I work in a little localization company and I'm familiar with the relationships between top-brass and subordinates. If you're right, that means that SP is incredibly unprofessional company.

[gtharby]

39 minutes ago, Zenophilious said:

Also, if the complainers not buying their products doesn't make a dent in their sales, then why would they be expanding their 18+ catalogue and partnering with Nutaku? 

I am thinking the Nutaku partnership is for the exact same reason they have been lukewarm to 18+ releases in the past. Or in short, it is all about the money, and Nutaku's new platform just presented an opportunity to get enough money for 18+ releases to be more worth it.  The timing of the appearance of Nutaku's downloadable market worked out great for them though. 

 

As to Dovac though, regardless of if any of his particular rants had an effect on the bottom line or not, having your public face being someone who could easily have public meltdowns is not a good long term strategy, as any particular problem could potentially catch fire outside of the vocal community.  Rather then being concerned with what he had said, they probably were more concern about what he would say in the future. 

[Darklord Rooke]

17 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

Almost every japan VN include such thing.

No.

17 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

I was calm and patient for two years. They have to optimize their cataloge and actually start to release their games. Look at Chrono Clock TL. 34.44% ! And they going to release it in January 2017 according to VNDB? With adult version on Nutaku?

Allocation of translators most likely. Everybody’s been waiting for Django Orange from JAST for … I dunno, close to 5 years with no end in sight. 2 isn’t very long in comparison.

17 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

Um... yeah SakuSaku was 100% in April and in July Sekai took it away, so when do we exept to see the oficial English translation? In what year?

People need to get over their anger at fan-TLs being licensed. Here’s something you probably didn’t know, Himawari was 100% fan-translated by Conjueror before he offered it up to Mangagamer (and probably would have been fan released if MG turned him down.) And still not released, because official localisations take time.

But at the end of the day, people aren't entitled to a fan release in the first place. If it happens, it's a bonus. If it doesn't, then people'll just have to stomach it.

11 minutes ago, Zenophilious said:

Things like actually having a Denpasoft panel separate from SP's main one at Anime Atlanta make things look a little more optimistic.  

True. They're learning.

4 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

If you're right, that means that SP is incredibly unprofessional company.

Yes  

EDIT: I don't view the Visual Novel Localisation industry as a very professional one at the moment, TBH. Just my opinion on the matter.

[Nier]

1 minute ago, Rooke said:

Allocation of translators most likely. Everybody’s been waiting for Django Orange from JAST for … I dunno, close to 5 years with no end in sight. 2 isn’t very long in comparison.

At this point it's likely that it's been stealth cancelled like Chaos;Head and Kikokugai.

Sumaga also, where is it?

[Zenophilious]

3 minutes ago, gtharby said:

I am thinking the Nutaku partnership is for the exact same reason they have been lukewarm to 18+ releases in the past. Or in short, it is all about the money, and Nutaku's new platform just presented an opportunity to get enough money for 18+ releases to be more worth it.  The timing of the appearance of Nutaku's downloadable market worked out great for them though. 

 

As to Dovac though, regardless of if any of his particular rants had an effect on the bottom line or not, having your public face being someone who could easily have public meltdowns is not a good long term strategy, as any particular problem could potentially catch fire outside of the vocal community.  Rather then being concerned with what he had said, they probably were more concern about what he would say in the future. 

Ehh, can't really disprove or prove any interpretation of their deal with Nutaku.  At the very least, they are more interested in the 18+ market than they previously appeared to be.

The most recent controversy he caused was in regards to an illegal 18+ patch that pretty much everyone agreed was in the wrong.  I don't understand how someone could even make that into a controversy that reflects negatively on them and their company, but dovac pulled through and managed it anyway.

[Darklord Rooke]

5 minutes ago, Zenophilious said:

I don't understand how someone could even make that into a controversy that reflects negatively on them and their company

Talent.

[Infernoplex]

Is it just me or is the MG currently the best localization company for VNs right now ... I mean, comparing these three major ones, I have a considerably better opinion of MG than of JAST and SP.

[Chuee]

44 minutes ago, Zenophilious said:

Uhhhh...a lot of people hate them for a reason.  Acting like they did nothing to deserve any of it is quite stupid.  I, in no way, mean to say that every criticism of SP is valid, because quite a lot of the whiners are salty pieces of shit that need to grow up (anyone that thinks death threats are a reasonable response to not getting anniemay pr0n should go somewhere far away from civilization), but there are plenty of legitimate complaints that people have with them that they refuse to meaningfully address.  Poor communication, not providing backer rewards that were promised years ago, not being transparent when it comes to whether or not there will be 18+ versions (still waiting for news about 18+ versions that they reportedly said they'd give at Otakon), and no apparent attempts to get unmosaic'd CGs (I really doubt that every company they deal with for 18+ VNs lost the uncensored CGs.  I mean, KARAKARA?  A new VN?  It has mosaics and nothing from SP addressing why?) are what most people complain about, with their repeated use of Kickstarter also being included.  dovac being a pathetic manchild in public is also why quite a few people dislike SP, but it seems like they finally got a handle on that, either by giving him the boot or making sure he doesn't interact with the public on the internet.

Also, if the complainers not buying their products doesn't make a dent in their sales, then why would they be expanding their 18+ catalogue and partnering with Nutaku?  The people that vocally hate them the most are pissed because they seem to not really care about 18+ versions that much.  If anything, that could be taken as them admitting that their previous stance, which seemed to doing 18+ versions as a side project with not a lot of focus on it (100% conjecture, I know nothing about how they run their company), was shooting themselves in the feet when it came to dealing with the core fanbase of VNs.

Of course, they themselves even admit they've made mistakes, and they do address a lot of things, just that a lot of times when they reach out to websites like here and reddit they're met with hostility and people just being plain rude, so they stop seeing as how their's not much point in it. Most of people's "complaints" about them nowadays are just vestiges from around their starting, and people looking for excuses to keep up that hatred. That's why you had people make up the whole thing with Shiny Days, why you had people misinterpret that tweet from a Giga rep to go around and complain that Baldr for sure isn't getting an uncensored version. Also funnily enough you mention that they somehow broke a promise that they'd give information about 18+ versions at Otakon, which they never said. All the said was at a later convention after there wasn't enough time at AX, and surprise, it looks like they're planning to give this information at AWA. The only real complaint I can see is that they don't pursue mosaics and their lack of communication. In the case of mosaics it's more than likely they don't see it as a wise enough investment to spend money on decensoring CGs (remember, it isn't as simple as just receiving the CGs from the JP dev and putting them in the game). As far as communication goes, most of the things they remain silent on are things the community starts to run wild speculating about regarding games that are still far off from release, so chances are they don't really care, because the concerns will be addressed closer to when the game is ready for release. Kickstarter rewards aren't released on time, because surprise, Kickstarters for anything almost never get released on time. So, no, I don't see a problem with that as long as they keep people reasonably informed. By backing a Kickstarter, you should know full well what you're getting yourself into, and the fact that the date in which you'll get what you payed for is basically anyone's guess. All in all, you can still have complaints against them without having to hate them. See, that's the difference between Sekai and other publishers. When JAST or MG slip up, you don't have people calling for their heads, spewing awful remarks, calling for boycotts of all of their products. Except in Shiny Day's case, though. People bitch and complain that Sekai is too slow translating their stuff, yet people somehow are able to wait patiently for MG or JAST titles that take even longer to get to release (Da Capo III, Sumaga, etc).

Regarding the whole nutaku, 18+ thing, that's because dissenters have deluded themselves into thinking they're somehow anti-18+. I know I've been told personally that they pursue 18+ version for every title, and that the only instances in which they release a title without one is when it's a request from the developer. 

39 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

Almost every japan VN include such thing.

Um... yeah SakuSaku was 100% in April and in July Sekai took it away, so when do we exept to see the oficial English translation? In what year?

Almost every Japanese VN includes rape scenes with middle school girls? Wow, I must be missing something. 

Also, it really pisses me off when people use wording like they "took it" away. Nobody "took" anything from anyone. This had been discussed for well over a year before the announcement, and both parties were perfectly happy with how things turned out. If anything, I would want them to release my fan projects officially. The translation just for your information wasn't "finished" in April, it still has to be QCed (which is going on right now) and then another TLC pass on it. 

[yorikbad]

12 minutes ago, Rooke said:

26 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

Almost every japan VN include such thing.

No

All characters are over 18, right?

 

14 minutes ago, Rooke said:

Allocation of translators most likely. Everybody’s been waiting for Django Orange from JAST for … I dunno, close to 5 years with no end in sight. 2 isn’t very long in comparison.

Comparing SP to Jast is not an excuse. 

16 minutes ago, Rooke said:

People need to get over their anger at fan-TLs being licensed. Here’s something you probably didn’t know, Himawari was 100% fan-translated by Conjueror before he offered it up to Mangagamer (and probably would have been fan released if MG turned him down.) And still not released, because official localisations take time.

I don't care about fan-TL much. It's free, so we have no room for complain. And I did know about Himawari. I think MG decided to hold the game for a convenient moment. Recently, they release one big title per month. It's also a bad practice but they can offer many other good games instead.

I look forward to the games that have already bought or intend to buy. WEE, Grisaia, SakuSaku, Fault, Sierra Ops, Crono Clock, Hoshimemo, Wagamama High Spec. In 2 years? I am afraid even think about release date of Maitetsu or Baldr Sky.

30 minutes ago, Rooke said:

But at the end of the day, people aren't entitled to a fan release in the first place. If it happens, it's a bonus. If it doesn't, then people'll just have to stomach it.

Again, I'm perfectly fine when fan-TL becomes oficial work. What I don't like is when the company deliberately delay the game's release. Like MG or Jast. But SP is the special case, because they're frequently using crowdfounding.

[Infernoplex]

2 minutes ago, Chuee said:

When JAST or MG slip up, you don't have people calling for their heads, spewing awful remarks, calling for boycotts of all of their products. Except in Shiny Day's case, though. People bitch and complain that Sekai is too slow translating their stuff, yet people somehow are able to wait patiently for MG or JAST titles that take even longer to get to release (Da Capo III, Sumaga, etc).

That's not true, I have seen calls for JAST's head many times for many reasons and many times it was justifiable, as for MG I don't remember any recent slip-up by them, care to tell me what has MG done recently to even deserve any kind of hate? They did deserve it in the past with awful releases and translations but that was way back during Edelweiss period. As for JAST, they are worse than SP when it comes to delaying releases, takes them ages to finish it all off and they do get called on that many times.

[yorikbad]

21 minutes ago, Infernoplex said:

Is it just me or is the MG currently the best localization company for VNs right now ... I mean, comparing these three major ones, I have a considerably better opinion of MG than of JAST and SP.

They were so bad back in 2008 before Japanese handed marketing in the hands of Western's. And they still make mistakes. Many people complain about poor QC of Funbag Fantasy.

[Darklord Rooke]

7 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

I don't care about fan-TL much. It's free, so we have no room for complain. And I did know about Himawari. I think MG decided to hold the game for a convenient moment. Recently, they release one big title per month. It's also a bad practice but they can offer many other good games instead.

In that time, Conjueror and Garejei have completely finished translating 2 other games, and are now onto their third. It's legitimately had delays.

7 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

Comparing SP to Jast is not an excuse. 

Not an excuse, it's a comparison of responses. As in, JAST are much worse and yet don't get nearly as much hate.

SP have had quite a few missteps but they're a new company and they'll learn, given time. The business world is a pretty different place to what people expect when going in.

[Infernoplex]

2 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

They were so bad back in 2008 before Japanese handed marketing in the hands of Western's. And they still make mistakes. Many people complain about poor QC of Funbag Fantasy.

I do remember them from that time, that was long ago by my standard, I don't remember anything big recently that was in any way that bad from them. As for Kyonyuu Fantasy, I didn't play it so I don't know much about it, I have only heard it had bad demosaicing.

[RedK]

RIP, his tweets made me lol.

[Nandemonai]

12 hours ago, yorikbad said:

If I remember correctly SP translated "Schools Days" and was against some part of the game.

I'm not sure, but I think you mean 'Shiny Days'?  Jast's reorganized their forum, so I can't find the official announcement anymore.  Here's a writeup of it: http://fuwanovel.net/2015/04/endorse-jasts-censorship-shiny-days/

In short, some people "affiliated" with Sekai worked with Jast on the game, but those people were never "against" any part of it.  They specifically said that nobody involved in the project had any moral objections to any part of the game.

Instead, the game was censored for legal reasons.  It was still censored, and some Sekai people were involved, but it was censored because they were worried about going to prison.  It's not true that I don't have a problem with that, but my problem isn't with Jast USA, it's with the government.

 

6 hours ago, yorikbad said:

All characters are over 18, right?

Not the same thing at all.  The majority - in my experience - of VNs either don't feature underage characters at all, or feature high schoolers going out with ... other high schoolers.  (The games like to get cute and pretend they're not set in a high school, by using precisely ambiguous terms like "Academy", but they aren't fooling anybody.  We all know these are high schoolers.)

Middle school is significantly younger.  Most games don't go there.  Also, the rape in Shiny Days isn't just statutory - it's forcible.

These things put Shiny Days significantly further than even Sweet Sweat in Summer (or whatever it's called, I forget exactly) because in that game, they're the same (nebulous, ill defined) age.

[VLOCKUP]

People seem to forget than usually why JAST don't much hatred is because it is to be expected. When any titles(especially by Nitro) get licensed by them, any customers familiar with them will automatically come to the conclusion that JAST will release them decades later. They have improved release rate(not that significant IMO) but that thought will stuck in our minds. That will never change. We just grow numb on them. But then again, it's not like most of their big releases are that interesting to me(I do have interest in Oyari games though...*cross fingers for ES GOLD*).

SP just started off in a bad start and in worst way as possible, being antagonistic/apathetic towards core VN fans. They are in better shape than MG was but one thing MG had better in between is better customers communication and PR(Kouryuu). SP is ehhh..... Steam is their main platform and yet they still want to keep Denpasoft label if they truly don't give a dime in 18+ potential(why even invest on a "side project" at all?). Dovac's stunts and rants do not help in encourage any positivity towards SP.

Man, I remember the time when social media doesn't have much effect and most people dismissed their importance. Now though...

[yorikbad]

14 hours ago, Nandemonai said:

20 hours ago, yorikbad said:

All characters are over 18, right?

Not the same thing at all.  The majority - in my experience - of VNs either don't feature underage characters at all, or feature high schoolers going out with ... other high schoolers.  (The games like to get cute and pretend they're not set in a high school, by using precisely ambiguous terms like "Academy", but they aren't fooling anybody.  We all know these are high schoolers.)

Middle school is significantly younger.  Most games don't go there.  Also, the rape in Shiny Days isn't just statutory - it's forcible.

These things put Shiny Days significantly further than even Sweet Sweat in Summer (or whatever it's called, I forget exactly) because in that game, they're the same (nebulous, ill defined) age.

Well, I understand this, though in our country there's no middle or high school. Just one school from 7 to 18. Even implying intimate relationships with minors is forbidden by public opinion and law. And it should be. Visual Novels are very different in my opinion because they depict fictional characters. I just can't see real girls or women in those 2D anime bodies. Like I can't feel a compassion to the random deads in FPS games.  And I think you're wrong saying VNs don't feature underage characters so often. Majority of the VN's database is nukige and those games constantly contain lolie's H-scenes among others. Also, some popular titles: Grisaia (Makina), Hoshimemo (Mare S. Ephemeral), Saya no Uta (Saya), Maji de Watashi ni Koishinasai! (Kuki Monshiro), Eden (Sion) etc. Formally speaking, they are adults, but their appearance doesn't fool anyone.

 

Back to the main topic, I take back my accusations concerning SP's stuff preferences. From my experiance I can understand that localization's business can sometimes be extremly hard and ungrateful but I refuse to stay calm regarding delays and lack of communication with fans. With every kind of fans not just Nekopara kids. As a customer, I'm indifferent to the SP's financial and organization problems. I sympathize with their wish to expand VN market in the West but generally I'm don't care how hard it's for them. Neither should anyone. Like when we buy some products from Apple or Microsoft we don't care about their states of affair. We can't help them but to buy their games.

But where are these games..?

[Darklord Rooke]

33 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

We can't help them but to buy their games.

But where are these games..?

Sekai Project has published well over 50 games. There's plenty to choose from if you really want to indiscriminately buy their games.

[yorikbad]

12 minutes ago, Rooke said:

Sekai Project has published well over 50 games. There's plenty to choose from if you really want to indiscriminately buy their games.

Bunch of OELVNs, Kickstater's projects with existing fan-TLs and Nekopara. Ok, what can I choose... But as I said before, I've bought their games. WEE Episode 3 and Grisaia Trilogy. I just don't have them. Do I have to tell you why?

[Chuee]

45 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

Well, I understand this, though in our country there's no middle or high school. Just one school from 7 to 18. Even implying intimate relationships with minors is forbidden by public opinion and law. And it should be. Visual Novels are very different in my opinion because they depict fictional characters. I just can't see real girls or women in those 2D anime bodies. Like I can't feel a compassion to the random deads in FPS games.  And I think you're wrong saying VNs don't feature underage characters so often. Majority of the VN's database is nukige and those games constantly contain lolie's H-scenes among others. Also, some popular titles: Grisaia (Makina), Hoshimemo (Mare S. Ephemeral), Saya no Uta (Saya), Maji de Watashi ni Koishinasai! (Kuki Monshiro), Eden (Sion) etc. Formally speaking, they are adults, but their appearance doesn't fool anyone.

Just like you said, most of them are canonically older than their appearance tells you, which isn't the case with Kokoro. Also there's the fact that none of them have rape scenes. 

[yorikbad]

2 minutes ago, Chuee said:

Also there's the fact that none of them have rape scenes. 

Saya no Uta has one. But I get your point.

[Darklord Rooke]

11 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

Bunch of OELVNs, Kickstater's projects with existing fan-TLs and Nekopara. Ok, what can I choose... But as I said before, I've bought their games. WEE Episode 3 and Grisaia Trilogy. I just don't have them. Do I have to tell you why?

If Sekai Project don't release games you enjoy, that's a very different criticism to "where's all the games". Also a wait of 1.5 to 2 years is pretty piddly in this industry, I'm actually not in awe at how long "you've had to wait". 

To be honest, the VNs I enjoy the most have been OELVNs. I had much more fun playing VA-11 Hall-A than many of the translated VNs released. Same with 7KPP (even though I've only played the demo.) My favourite sim is Academagia (not anything that Japan has released.) And Just Deserts, and Highway Blossoms which have just been released by Sekai looks pretty okay.

[yorikbad]

1 minute ago, Rooke said:

If Sekai Project don't release games you enjoy, that's a very different criticism to "where's all the games". Also a wait of 1.5 to 2 years is pretty piddly in this industry, I'm actually not in awe at how long "you've had to wait". 

Look, it's not the waiting that killing me, but silence. I can wait for as long as it takes but I'm afraid with such attitude and poor buisness decisions SP may die before will be released the games I want.

For example, WEE was fully funded in 2014. They've gathered almost 100 000 dollars with my money included. It's way more then it's needed for the translation of the two relatively short episodes of doujinshi game. Now we have the first two on steam, but they have to Greenlight the third. Why?

12 minutes ago, Rooke said:

To be honest, the VNs I enjoy the most have been OELVNs. I had much more fun playing VA-11 Hall-A than many of the translated VNs released. Same with 7KPP (even though I've only played the demo.) My favourite sims are Academagia (not anything that Japan has released.) And Just Deserts, which has just been released by Sekai looks pretty okay.

I agree, "VA-11 Hall-A" is a fine little masterpiece. Don't know about "Just Desert" beside that it has very bland voice acting. My favorite OELVN is "One Thousand Lie". But I can't say I enjoy western visual novels as much as japanese. They're still in different... how to say it right in English... weight divisions?

[Darklord Rooke]

13 minutes ago, yorikbad said:

Now we have the first two on steam, but they have to Greenlight the third. Why?

They Greenlit the first one also - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=216264919

I would imagine it's just a process they have to go through. Nothing to worry about. Also the $100,000 would have paid for license costs, which are expensive, and there's a 10% Kickstarter fee. It also includes people who pledge but don't pay. Kickstarter rewards are also funded with this money.

[yorikbad]

7 minutes ago, Rooke said:

Nothing to worry about.

Sekai Project about WEE final episode: PC version estimated to release in Late Summer

Let's hope you're right and the waiting is near over. For now I stop whining and start praying.