ChaosRaven Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 7 minutes ago, solidbatman said: Yeah and in the first hour the main character's sister walks into the room naked for no reason. Oh yeah, and btw it's also one of the rare VN's with NO sister incest. And you've never seen a hollywood movie with an (almost) naked person? Do others even exist? Better stay away from the hyper popular Game of Thrones series then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 1 minute ago, ChaosRaven said: Oh yeah, and btw it's also one of the rare VN's with NO sister incest. And you've never seen a hollywood movie with an (almost) naked person? Do others even exist? Better stay away from the hyper popular Game of Thrones series then! Its weird, and I'm not saying I agree with it, but for some reason, real tits are acceptable. 3D rendered tits are acceptable, but for some reason, anime tits are not. Thats the only reason I'd avoid it as a starter. Nothing against the quality of KnS (which is a fantastic VN), just has some quirks that I feel would keep the average newbie away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRaven Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 18 minutes ago, solidbatman said: Its weird, and I'm not saying I agree with it, but for some reason, real tits are acceptable. 3D rendered tits are acceptable, but for some reason, anime tits are not. Thats the only reason I'd avoid it as a starter. Nothing against the quality of KnS (which is a fantastic VN), just has some quirks that I feel would keep the average newbie away. You're aware that Luis Royo is one of the most popular western fantasy artists, and that most of his works are lightly clothed women? His Fantasy calendars are amongst the most popular ones. And there are even much more fantasy artists with adult art if you check out Heavy Metal magazine for example. Drawn boobs are nothing special in the west, and KnS is therefore a good pick for me because its art has a strong western touch that resembles western artists much more than classic anime art. If you've problems with drawn boobs that this is most certainly a personal problem of yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 1 minute ago, ChaosRaven said: You're aware that Luis Royo is one of the most popular western fantasy artists, and that most of his works are lightly clothed women? His Fantasy calendars are amongst the most popular ones. And there are even much more fantasy artists with adult art if you check out Heavy Metal magazine for example. Drawn boobs are nothing special in the west, and KnS is therefore a good pick for me because its art has a strong western touch that resembles western artists much more than classic anime art. If you've problems with drawn boobs that this is most certainly a personal problem of yours. Calm down. This is exactly why I stopped trying to get involved in discussions. No where did I state I had an issue. No where did I state that drawn boobs where the issue. I said anime boobs. VNs have a stigma, like it or not. Not sure why you have to imply that I have a personal issue with this. KnS is not something I'd recommend as a starter VN. You disagree. I really don't care that much, and was simply clarifying my stance, not attempting to disprove what you said, nor trying to attack what you like. So lets cut it out with passive aggressive remarks, and the defensiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorathiel Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 I would disagree about Kara No Shoujo, but not because boobs or sex, which are pretty tame in this, but because story is not THAT great. Sure, it has nice mood, great cast, nice mystery i bthe first aprt, but second arc is just lacking, and any 'book worm, criminals reader' would be rather dissapointed in this. So it wouldn't be 'wow, thats imrpessive, I wouldn't have guessed that those visual novels can be as good as that'. Many of your, in general, recommendations were downright...silly? I mean, come on, nobody would be impressed by visual novel part of Kamidori, or anything in A Profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorathiel Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, solidbatman said: VNs have a stigma, like it or not. They really don't. 99,999% of 'general people' wouldn't even hear of such a medium, so they do not know anything about 'stigma'. Point was how to took a completly oblivious to VNs person and imrpess them with one title. Of course it depends on people, and what do they like (so horror haters wouldn't be impressed by Phenomeno, and sci-fi loathers would not find Steins;Gate appealing at all), but point was what MIGHT impress a random normie. Despite his/her prefferences. So even if person is sci fi lover, it wouldn't be impressed by Demonbane, or if (s)he loves human drama, A Profile wouldn't be very engaging. So those titles are off, but I would still hold S;G and Phenomeno on that 'might impress' list. Some answers I found interesting: eden* - although I didn't read it (first 20 minutes and it put me off, but for rather personal reasons) I'm still alight by idea of presenting this VN to someone as 'check this out it will blow you away'. Same for Swan Song. Tsukihime - it would MUST have been a censored version. Nasu porn scenes are one of the most rape-but-not-really I ever seen, so really hard to stomach. But Tsukihime have a really great story telling, which even uses things as text presentation to amplify the impact on reader. As opposed to 95% of basic ADV VN. Planetarian - it's really a nice story, with great, yet simple and intentionally undeveloped (chich adds to the experience!) world building. But would it imrpess anyone? What I would imagie at most would be 'that was really nice', but no blow up minds. Kikokugai - exactly as Planetarian. Same about worldbuilding, same about level of impressiveness. But ending would might left bad aftertaste... About VNs that must be not very long - come on. People tend to read big as book series. Nothing wrong with big amount of text if it's really great and engaging. Now I found that A Profile was mentioned ironically. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakamutt Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 13 minutes ago, Vorathiel said: They really don't. 99,999% of 'general people' wouldn't even hear of such a medium, so they do not know anything about 'stigma'. Point was how to took a completly oblivious to VNs person and imrpess them with one title. I see your loc is set to Cracow. The US stigma against animu art and Japanese stuff in general is much larger, I believe - I'm Swedish, and from what my hikki self can tell stigma isn't that huge here but might exist to some degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterfuryZX Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Anything fast paced w/o convemtional routes: Chaos;Head, Remember11, Saya no Uta etc. and obvs. 428 when it will be out in english Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakamutt Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I wouldn't consider Chaos;Head a good idea given the protagonist. Remember11 might not be too bad, but then you're reading that before Ever17 which is a... bit... yeah. You should know yourself why Saya is a questionable choice, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRaven Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 1 hour ago, solidbatman said: Calm down. This is exactly why I stopped trying to get involved in discussions. No where did I state I had an issue. No where did I state that drawn boobs where the issue. I said anime boobs. VNs have a stigma, like it or not. Not sure why you have to imply that I have a personal issue with this. KnS is not something I'd recommend as a starter VN. You disagree. I really don't care that much, and was simply clarifying my stance, not attempting to disprove what you said, nor trying to attack what you like. So lets cut it out with passive aggressive remarks, and the defensiveness. Sorry, my statement wasn't really meant in an offensive way, but I admit it could be read that way. I think we can agree to disagree here, although I want to emphasize that I mentioned KnS explicitly as an 'adult only' suggestion. I had Eden and G-Senjou as tamer suggestions as well. But you said it yourself, you have to consider the person whom you're suggesting something. And I certainly agree with that statement. solidbatman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pual Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 10 hours ago, Vorathiel said: To use the VNs I mentioned: - Katawa is bland, simple charage. Nice, but nothing 'wow', and filled with not really exciting SoL. - G, even without porn is still trope'y and have a lot of SoL, but actually it might be closest to 'make impression' on people of them three. These two were literally my first & second VN when I didn't even know what VN was. First impression of Katawa was that it's boring 4chan's excretion but after reading Emi route and getting familiar with route system it wasn't that bad. Then I found about VNDB and read G-senjou which is still one of my all-time favorites. I don't see someone with no exposure to anime/manga reading VN's simply because many are SoL heavy (or filled with ecchi, when they don't expect it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makudomi Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 2 hours ago, solidbatman said: Its weird, and I'm not saying I agree with it, but for some reason, real tits are acceptable. 3D rendered tits are acceptable, but for some reason, anime tits are not. Thats the only reason I'd avoid it as a starter. Nothing against the quality of KnS (which is a fantastic VN), just has some quirks that I feel would keep the average newbie away. Not to keep you involved in a discussion you'd rather not be, but I agree with this 100%, and KnS is my favourite VN. I actually learnt this lesson from experience years ago -- recommended a friend the game and his commentary was largely "Why is there all of this random porn?" for the first couple of hours. It's a great story, mystery and thriller all-around, but it's written with VN fans in mind (and henceforth laden with fanservice and ero scenes unessential to the plot). That's kind of a shocker to someone expecting a murder mystery with music and visuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 4 minutes ago, Makudomi said: Not to keep you involved in a discussion you'd rather not be, but I agree with this 100%, and KnS is my favourite VN. I actually learnt this lesson from experience years ago -- recommended a friend the game and his commentary was largely "Why is there all of this random porn?" for the first couple of hours. Rule of thumb - nudity for a reason. People will stomach nudity in games or movies if there's a reason. Genuine romance, for example, or worldbuilding like depicting the horrors and struggles in an uncaring world. Copious nudity shoehorned in purely to excite the audience will quickly get the thing labelled as 'porn'. For Example, the Witcher 3 has nudity but the first Witcher was censored. There were these sex cards you could collect after you romanced people in the first one, and they were censored in the American version of the game (I got my grubby hands on the uncensored international version.) They were then removed in the sequels. Makudomi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasDice Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Do you guys have any opinion on anime fighters with story modes like BlazBlue? BlazBlue is very anime and there is a lot of fanservice in the extras section of each game. But even if you don't know anything about tropes (yet), the fanservice is mostly in context of the story mode which you had to play through in order to unlock it. Anime is probably the best way to ease people into our beloved porn games and as I said, BlazBlue is pretty anime in addition to being an actual video game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulless Watcher Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 31 minutes ago, TexasDice said: Anime is probably the best way to ease people into our beloved porn games..... This, I can tell you from looking back at my pre-otaku phase, I would not give vns the time of day without being eased into the "mindset" through anime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRaven Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Makudomi said: It's a great story, mystery and thriller all-around, but it's written with VN fans in mind (and henceforth laden with fanservice and ero scenes unessential to the plot). That's kind of a shocker to someone expecting a murder mystery with music and visuals. This is certainly a valid point. Most H-scenes in KnS1 were random and some even so out of place that it was borderline tasteless. I actually rated the VN down because of that in my review years ago. Problem is that Vorathiel didn't ask for 'beginner' VN's, he asked for VN's that would 'impress'. And while I could list quite a lot of good starter VN's, the list of truly 'impressive' VN's is at least for me pretty low. I think the only VN I might replace KnS with would be good old F/SN. But F/SN looks so dated nowadays, that I'd usually just suggest them to go for the animes instead. I think Umineko with PS2 art and its great soundtrack was quite impressive at times and might please western readers with its witch theme. However, 40% of it was brilliant but the other 60% were just uaaaghhhh... Fata Morgana would probably also be a good candidate because of its Gothic setting, but I didn't play it myself so I don't know if it would be impress me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nandemonai Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 OK, so first, I second all of the following: Steins;Gate, 999/VLR, Danganronpa, Ever 17, and Planetarian. Now, my own suggestions: I'm going to suggest a blast from the past; Crescendo, because I found the writing in it to be pretty good. And I actually had luck getting a non-VN fan to read and enjoy it. Also, Littlewitch Romanesque: Editio Regia. (Yes, the censored version. Of course, the censored version.) It's got great characters, it's far more interactive than most other VNs, and it has great art. And the censored version will be much easier to get people to try. I'm also going to be a bit weird, and recommend games that are like VNs, but not actually VNs. The theory is that you can get people comfortable with very story-heavy stuff, as a sort of gateway drug-type thing. (Even though the whole gateway drug idea is more or less debunked now; it's a metaphor.) Her Story and The Stanley Parable more or less defy categorization, but are in the same vein. Then there are really good adventure games with a strong story focus. There's The Longest Journey, which is the one I've actually played. Then there's a bunch on my list that I've been meaning to get around to: Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Grim Fandango Remastered, Day of the Tentacle Remastered, I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, and finally The Last Express. (Note I haven't played any of those last group yet, but their reputation precedes them.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okarin Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Fate of Atlantis is really good, if only I could manage to finish the darn game. They should have made a movie out of this, but Harrison Ford is so old yet... I have no mouth and I must scream, I really wanted to play it in the olden days, but now I've grown out of the 90s and pixel games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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