MMOs and SAO

[Kendjin]

First of all, I'm not ignoring .hack// , but since SAO is more recent and the topic was thought up, because I decided to rewatch the anime, before I decide to read up on it again.

For a while, I've been trying to find an MMO that I feel captures the feeling you get from watching SAO and I think there are a few that while coming close in feeling, perhaps lack one or two key elements. Firstly, this one being completely personal, a lot of the "looks" of characters in these MMOs do not gel with how I want my character to look, they match the look and setting of the world, but not my vision, as I said mostly a personal reason. I just don't want to play a 35 year old bearded guy.

Secondly, I think that especially in .hack or SAO, its actually very little about the actual game and more about the character interactions (we just don't act this way in MMOs), I think I feel saddened by the interaction. Closest I have come to SAO so far is FFXI, but the game has clunky elements and the system in general unfriendly, also not very starter friends as it is populated by veterans.

I have played the FFXIV BETA for a while now, it feels good, I like the stories, but I feel it to be quite empty on the friend front, I think it is because there is no real need or draw to party, many games allow for solo play to get in as many people as possible.

What is everyone's feelings on this? Do you know a game you believe may fit the setting? I look forward to the answer.

[Luch]

I didn't see SAO but...

Such MMOs don't exist. These days MMOs are designed so that people don't have to give rat's ass about other players. There is no need for interaction because everything is automated.

MMOs have big, open, nice looking worlds but the world is empty because everyone is idling in a city waiting for their automated dungeon finder tool to make a party for them. And when they get into the dungeon they have a group of random people some of them possibly from a different server and there is a very small possibility that you will ever meet again so why bother doing any bonding or talking.

The best way to get some interaction is to try to find a guild with active members that have some sense in their heads.

[Fox_DL]

I haven't watched .hack but I did watch SAO.

In SAO, everyone was forced to either be at their best or worst since their lives are on the line. Since real MMOs do not make any threats to its players by killing them if they stop playing, you may have to make use of the forums to get the experience you want . My own SAO experience was fulfilled in the Original Ragnarok but only because I was active in the forums. I had some difficulty getting an item for a certain job quest and someone from the forums helped me. I in turn, called him "Master" and we talked after I finished the quest. We eventually went on other quests and he tanked boss monsters for me. He became inactive but I was able to join this great guild again, because of the forums. Eventually our little guild became one of the notable guilds in the server. I don't want to sound like bragging but I usually, there were any questions about a job class and I play it, my guildies ask me first.

By the way, the main reason I headed to the forums first was because I was afraid of being scammed. Eventually, the ones who post the most banded together (myself included) and formed a guild. The info and encouragements we gave to each other made us a force to reckon with. Slow moments in the game usually lightens up when someone logs in drunk. Our guild was really fond of taking hilarious screenshots and posting it in the forums. here's an example:

Guild Master: The best weapon for you would be a glorious speak..

Me: Huh? What's a glorious speak?

Guild Master: I meant glorious spear..

Me: (takes a look at the keyboard) ahahaha you know the letter "k" was really far from the letter "r" to be considered a normal typo..

Guild Master: Well you see....

Me: SS!*

Guild Master: Nuuuuuuu........

SS = our abbreviation for screenshot

What I'm really saying is that SAO was really great because everyone had each other's back but with regard to real MMOs, most players just party up and when the task is done. They say goodbye and then move on. I found that people in the forums tend to include having meaningful connections as part of their gaming compared to others who have no forum accounts. So if both parties are really accommodating, they tend to trust each other (which was one of the values promoted by SAO). If you trust each other you become friends. So that's my take on having a SAO experience

[Guest]

Kendjin: "why we can't have an mmo experiance like SAO" ... bcuz not enough asuna-level bishoujos to go around http://t.co/yPMWccVgMX

— Aaeru (@Aaeru_)

July 8, 2013

[Sparkker]

Kendjin: "why we can't have an mmo experiance like SAO" ... bcuz not enough asuna-level bishoujos to go around http://t.co/yPMWccVgMX

— Aaeru (@Aaeru_)

July 8, 2013

Point taken<< >>

Really laughed when I read it>

[Kendjin]

Time to get Aaeru into MMOs

[Sparkker]

Time to get Aaeru into MMOs :D/>

ahahaha.. Persuade her>>> I'd love to see what will happen>>

[Zakamutt]

I've had some fairly decent social experiences in post-wotlk WoW, actually. Joined a random guild which invited everyone at the start of Cata (mosty for the benefits. Clever move, blizzard...). Thing is gchat was funny because the officers liked trolling and stuff, and there were guild runs etc, which actually got into some bonding at times.

Otherwise, you probably need to have an old school style mmo with all the hardcoreness that implies to really get into the whole community thing.

[solidbatman]

How would Eve Online compare to this? I hear that those guys are very very hardcore and real money is at stake if they mess up.

[Kendjin]

How would Eve Online compare to this? I hear that those guys are very very hardcore and real money is at stake if they mess up.

I play EVE on and off. I'd say its not actually that social, its more like a day at Wall Street.

You mine, you shoot raiders, maybe do some low-sec PvP, but I've never found people to be all that friendly. Don't get me wrong, there are good people, but for the most part it captures Space well. It feels lonely and void.

[Mephisto]

MMOs are all about the people you play with. I haven't played any MMOs in a long time, but the ones that I found to be the most effective at forming bonds are the ones with:

1. Time-based events.

2. Strong guild/race-specific events (Rising Force Online)

3. Heavy competition (needs a solid player base)

4. Has some grindy qualities (I know, as much as people hate grind, it is very effective)

[Okami]

-Because MMO's aren't advanced enough to give you freedom like in the SAO.

-They aren't designed in a way that you have reason to be part of some communities insadite MMO's.

-Most of the players take games to likely as nothing bad happens if you die, you usually don't lose match EXP, abilities, stuff in your inventory etc.

-They aren't nearly big enough, and they don't have nearly special event like in the SAO.

-There isn't that many different quests as most of the quests are very similar.

-In SAO there are a limited number of players and resources which gives you more life situation, in real life MMO's these are unlimited so no mater how many players take some items, chests you can also take them in the same places. (One of main reasons)

-Technology isn't nearly advancing enough to give you that kind of experience.

-Alot more small things that make you take the game locally.

-And more.

[CaptainBigButt]

Funding is probably the primary issue you'll get with any kind of MMO. Most of them just turn into money farms that make you pay monthly, pay for any kind of visual changes, or worse -- are pay to win. Other than that it's probably the amount of grinding you need to do, since SAO skips through it all (since there's no point in showing Kirito spending hours killing the same monsters). Lastly, there's always the community. Since there's no life or death situation, there's no need to be as friendly so you're probably going to get the typical internet community you'd see on lots of games. I'm sure there are other reasons, but really if you take some creative elements and add a little more freedom you could have something that was pretty cool, but most companies don't bother putting in all that effort. You'd never be able to duplicate SAO, but if the developers spent more time on it, they could easily create some beautiful landscapes, dynamic mechanics, and more creative combat.

Maybe some day.

[ToAEnd]

Have you already tried playing Grand Chase?

[Rairu-kun]

I've played a number of MMOs, from 3D dungeon MMO's like Cabal, to 2D monster field grinders like Trickster Online. And the closest to an SAO feel that i've ever gotten is probably from Guild Wars 2. In GW2 the players are forced to work together since it's almost impossible to solo a boss if you're at a place of your appropriate level. You can also revive each other an so on. If you what you want is a huge risk you should try Dark Souls. It's old, and it's not an MMO, but if you die...you basically lose everything and have to start over from scratch. You can find lots of games with small aspects and feels of SAO. Nothing EXACTLY like SAO will exist until we have games that can kill us lol.

[Steve]

Also didn't see SAO but heard people talking about it for ages so I got the general idea.

The reason why there isn't MMO like that is that it requires too much commitment from the players (I think they had to stay in there in SAO or something and couldn't leave?).

Getting this commitment from today's game consumers (I'm avoiding word gamers) is too hard because most of these people only have few hours a day.

MMOs used to be a big commitment back in the days, if you wanted to get on boss, you had to play for long time, you had to then commit whole evenings and often even early mornings to achieve something. But only limited number of people had the opportunity to live like that, to fully commit to the MMO. I used to be like that when I was on school with WoW.

Also another reason for people not to commit is the fact there is so many other games these days, you have so big selection so why limit yourself with only one game. That is why I would not commit to any single MMO as well, I want to play all the other games and watch all the other stuff, not just one game.

And even the people that used to be the ones who committed their whole lives to an MMO are decreasing, because they are being looked at like some low individuals. Maybe it can be compared to how people are looked at if they commit their whole life to music, it is something uncommon and the guidelines of life given by the public are different from that so it is not acceptable for most people, they will see you like someone wasting your life.

And that is why MMOs turned into hop in and hop out games with no commitments. MMOs had the potential to become a "second life" but the interference from the "first life" (real life) is just too big and is preventing most people from attending. If there was a way to free yourself from the "first life" and only be in an MMO (like its probably in SAO?), then it would ofc work differently and could have its functions. But as it stands, MMOs will only stay games and as is known in the mainstream, games are only to kill few hours of time - for that scenario extensive socializing just doesn't work.

And the few people still keeping the social aspects of MMOs alive are just not enough to even cover the server costs, so the companies will choose different approach to a wider audience, thus ruining the game for the dedicated few.

Well that's my insight on this matter, Ive been constantly playing at least one MMO since 2004.

Also for the second part, if you want an experience where you feel the world lives with you, I would also recommend Dark Souls.

Here is a very interesting article with few good points about it, ill just quote the good part:

So they’re excellent games, but how are they the best MMOs ever?

Here’s the thing: these are both single player games designed to be played with others. Beyond the play itself, the sheer depth and complexity of these games almost ensures that people will need to cooperate (via Wikis and discussion boards) in order to find everything and discover every secret.

Does this cooperative necessity make the games more or less immersive? Does pouring over internet boards and walkthroughs jolt us from the game experience?

Actually, I think it’s the opposite. To me, the Souls games are the culmination of the promise made by the MMO. They are massively multiplayer online single player role-playing games. They are “social” games because they require out-of-game social cooperation in order to truly navigate. The fact that you can invade other worlds or be summoned to fight cooperatively in other worlds is a beautiful twist. In Demon’s Souls the World Tendency shifts based on other players’ worlds.

In a traditional MMO, you run about in a world obviously populated by other players. Yet, in Dark Souls when I stand up from a rest at the bonfire, and see the ghostly shape of some other player siting there, somehow the sense that I’m playing with others is stronger. Perhaps it’s merely the introduction of empathy, or the mysteriousness of it all.

Whatever it is, I think you could go further than either Souls game has gone so far. You could combine the faction system of Dark Souls with the Tendency system in Demon’s Souls to create a truly remarkable competitive online single-player experience, for instance. The mad genius that made these games possible proves that innovation has not even truly begun in earnest when it comes to harnessing the power of the internet to enhance our gaming experience – even our single-player gaming experience.

These are social games for anti-social single-player gamers like me.

original:

http://www.forbes.co...mmos-ever-made/

[harry_kinomoto]

If you want something with good customisation options, I understand the latest Phantasy Star Online (PSO) offers it in spades. I've seen a friend play it and it has an impressive number of ways to change your facial appearance.

RE "social" side in SAO: gonna play devil's advocate for a moment and argue that there isn't really any of that in the SAO anime either. While all of Kirito's social interactions in SAO are cast in some positive light, all of them made Kirito out to be some ridiculous alpha-male. If it wasn't about his uber-hax battle capabilities, it was his rage against of PK-ers - which, again, required him to be an uber-hax fighter, just so that he could play his knight-in-shining-armour role to do away with all them baddies that dared to offend his delicate moral sensibilities. Because, after all, where is the shounen value in watching an inept weakling rage against such injustices - only to be PK-ed himself?

As it is, I believe the concept of guilds where members are strongly bonded together, player-controlled weaponsmiths and merchants whom you frequent because of their skill in the trade, or trusty partners whom you can always count on to watch your back in a dangerous dungeon, are all already there. SAO just happened to come up with an effectively dramatised version that ticks all the boxes of most viewers out there.

[Tief Blau]

Omni+Oculus Rift+Mad Genius Controller+Computer+Other needed peripherals (mic, other motion tracking hardware)+MMO that supports all of the above that isn't Skyrim, and has multiplayer.

There's your solution.

-Edit-

I guess good internet? Latency must be hell if many people are using motion tracking at once, but I don't really know...

[Kendjin]

Omni+Oculus Rift+Mad Genius Controller+Computer+Other needed peripherals (mic, other motion tracking hardware)+MMO that supports all of the above that isn't Skyrim, and has multiplayer.

There's your solution.

-Edit-

I guess good internet? Latency must be hell if many people are using motion tracking at once, but I don't really know...

Time to get shopping.

[Lewycool]

Didn't everyone who died in SAO died IRL too and also why would you want to be trapped in a game. Think about it ken

[Kendjin]

Yes

That is my answer.

[Sparkker]

Yes

That is my answer.

*Gets ready to betray Ken right from the beginning

[zhurai]

Omni+Oculus Rift+Mad Genius Controller+Computer+Other needed peripherals (mic, other motion tracking hardware)+MMO that supports all of the above that isn't Skyrim, and has multiplayer.

There's your solution.

-Edit-

I guess good internet? Latency must be hell if many people are using motion tracking at once, but I don't really know...

you forgot to mention that the game sends a message to the VR interface/headset to fry your brain if you die ingame. (*shrug* SAO)

also don't forget that you don't actually move outside of the game (so your arms aren't moving around in real life while swinging the sword while ingame)