KARAKARA, Dovac, Twitter wars, and overcharging for adult content

[Darklord Rooke]

2 hours ago, Mkilbride said:

Ok, so I see that on wiki, then why where there a dozen news articles about CD Projecft Red buying GoG back in 2011? 

It's probably due to you misreading something. GOG was established by CD Projekt, not bought, as an expansion of its localisation/distribution service it started back in the early 90s.

2 hours ago, Mkilbride said:

All I am saying is now that CD Projekt is considered "The Standard by which all developers are judged by" these days, in recent articles, due to their habit of releasing hours of free content for their games, which earns them nothing - short term, but long term, it created them a huge fanbase which made them successful.

No, they're considered "The Standard" by which RPG developers are judged by due to their successful merging of an open-world game with a compelling story. CD Projekt's been in business for a long time, and they're philosophies haven't changed. If it were due to their marketing philosophies they would have been considered "the standard" a long time ago, but they weren't. Because a small group of hardcore supporters don't determine how a group of developers is viewed by the masses.

 

The Witcher 2 DLC was also free. Were they considered "The standard" back in 2011? Pfffft as if!

[sanahtlig]

I'd suggest not challenging @Rooke to an RPG trivia challenge.  It's like an unarmed child challenging a black-belt in karate wielding a machine gun.  Even if you somehow manage to get close enough before he sprays you with bullets, he'll still pound you into the ground like a little girl.

[Chuee]

1 hour ago, knightnightmare said:

They should have prioritized the 18+ version to come out closer to the Steam version judging how well the AA version is doing on right now.
http://steamspy.com/app/345620 

Okay? What's your point? Meikyuu doing meh doesn't mean magically it would've sold more copies had they delayed it's release to coincide with the 18+ release. 

[Decay]

Also the witcher 3 totally has dlc...

[tjc2]

1 hour ago, Decay said:

Also the witcher 3 totally has dlc...

Expansions are not really the same as normal DLC. Blood and Wine is an entire new region with optimizations that make it even better than playing the regular game, especially on a High-End PC.

[Zenophilious]

12 minutes ago, tjc2 said:

Expansions are not really the same as normal DLC. Blood and Wine is an entire new region with optimizations that make it even better than playing the regular game, especially on a High-End PC.

The point is that Mkilbride incorrectly stated that CDPR was trying to do away with DLC entirely, which is a pile of rubbish.  If they were, they wouldn't have made any and would have actively campaigned against the concept.  If anything, they proved that modern DLC doesn't have to be crappy and subpar, while simultaneously overcharging for the content it provides.

[tjc2]

28 minutes ago, Zenophilious said:

The point is that Mkilbride incorrectly stated that CDPR was trying to do away with DLC entirely, which is a pile of rubbish.  If they were, they wouldn't have made any and would have actively campaigned against the concept.  If anything, they proved that modern DLC doesn't have to be crappy and subpar, while simultaneously overcharging for the content it provides.

Calling it a DLC though, like I said, is a little inaccurate. It could be sold as a stand alone game. DLC in the Witcher was free. DLC and Expansions cost money in games like Dragon Age and Bethesda games. DLC, to me, is the nickle and dime, 5-10$, that have little quality but make users feel their game is now incomplete if they don't purchase the content.

Infamous: First Light was actually sold separately from Infamous: Second Son where you never had to play the original game. 

 

Edit: I would call the 18+ content in VNs to be Nickle and Dime type DLC. Someone previously posted that in Japan they don't even release 2 versions.

[Decay]

Well, I was more referencing Hearts of Stone, which was a smaller quest series set in the same land as the rest of the game sold separately. I don't consider that nickel and diming, but still, it's DLC.

35 minutes ago, tjc2 said:

Edit: I would call the 18+ content in VNs to be Nickle and Dime type DLC. Someone previously posted that in Japan they don't even release 2 versions.

Yeah, instead in Japan they sell stuff like KARAKARA for $20 or more. Here, we're getting it $10 + $10. I don't really consider that "nickel and diming." There may be something to be said about what the fairest price distribution is, but it's not like you're being forced to pay more for the game with this setup than you would otherwise, and people who don't care about that content don't have to pay for it.

[Yuuko]

52 minutes ago, tjc2 said:

Someone previously posted that in Japan they don't even release 2 versions.

Japan does have the game + H-patch both too.

Game is 1100 yen or 1188 yen and H-patch is 1000 yen or 1080 yen too.

Only physical edition doesn't have the all-ages version and is sold for 1850 yen

[tjc2]

1 hour ago, Decay said:

Yeah, instead in Japan they sell stuff like KARAKARA for $20 or more. Here, we're getting it $10 + $10. I don't really consider that "nickel and diming." There may be something to be said about what the fairest price distribution is, but it's not like you're being forced to pay more for the game with this setup than you would otherwise, and people who don't care about that content don't have to pay for it.

I would agree if there was some kind of upgrade option, but I haven't seen many games that let you buy the steam version and then upgrade to 18+ when it is released.

[Decay]

Just now, tjc2 said:

I would agree if there was some kind of upgrade option, but I haven't seen many games that let you buy the steam version and then upgrade to 18+ when it is released.

Erm, that's exactly what the 18+ patch is, it's an upgrade option.

[Guest]

I agree with them charging more for H because it gives people like me more money.

[Caio000]

I don't understand when people say that they have to pay more for the 18+ scenes. It's pretty obvious that it's just that the all-ages version has a discount to make up for the lack of the scenes, just look at Nekopara Vol.1: It doesn't has a official patch but the price of the all-ages version is half of the 18+version. Also the price of all-ages version+ the price 18+ patch= price of the 18+version. The people that don't like of 18+ scenes can get the game cheaper and the ones that want 18+ scenes will pay the normal price. What is the problem with that?

I didn't liked Dovac's behavior but he was right in the issue with Imouto Club but whatever. I don't care whatever a publisher does, as long a game is in a acceptable condition to me and looks like I will have fun with it I will get it whatever the publisher and someone of the company does. That said, I am pretty obsessive and so I guess it's normal for me be this way.

[sanahtlig]

3 hours ago, Caio000 said:

I don't understand when people say that they have to pay more for the 18+ scenes. It's pretty obvious that it's just that the all-ages version has a discount to make up for the lack of the scenes, just look at Nekopara Vol.1: It doesn't has a official patch but the price of the all-ages version is half of the 18+version. Also the price of all-ages version+ the price 18+ patch= price of the 18+version. The people that don't like of 18+ scenes can get the game cheaper and the ones that want 18+ scenes will pay the normal price. What is the problem with that?

To reiterate yet again, the problem is the perceived inequity resulting from different audiences being treated differently.  One group's discount is another group's tax.  It doesn't matter whether you call it a "discount" for group 1 or a "tax" for group 2--it's both!  The essential question here is whether the price differences are based in costs or whether the company is simply exploiting group 2's willingness to pay more for content than group 1.  The problem is exacerbated if group 2 feels coerced to pay the higher price because the company says that if the version targeted at them doesn't sell, they'll be ignored in the future.  The problem is further exacerbated if group 2 feels that it is a minority and its voice is being dismissed.  It's not just this title.  This is a pattern among Sekai Project releases, and to a lesser extent among English releases of Japanese eroge in general.

To put it another way: imagine there is a single gas station in your town.  The next nearest gas station is 20 miles away in a nearby city.  Energy prices fall, but your town gas station refuses to lower the price, and says if you don't like it then go buy somewhere else.  When you complain, the gas station owner (who also owns the city gas station) threatens to close and asks you how you'd like that.  The city dwellers then mock you for being backwater rural troglodytes and tell you to go buy an electric car if you care so much.

[knightnightmare]

10 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

To reiterate yet again, the problem is the perceived inequity resulting from different audiences being treated differently.  One group's discount is another group's tax.  It doesn't matter whether you call it a "discount" for group 1 or a "tax" for group 2--it's both!  The essential question here is whether the price differences are based in costs or whether the company is simply exploiting group 2's willingness to pay more for content than group 1.  The problem is exacerbated further if group 2 feels coerced to pay the higher price because the company says that if the version targeted at them doesn't sell, they'll be ignored in the future.  It's not just this title.  This is a pattern among Sekai Project releases, and to a lesser extent among English releases of Japanese eroge in general.

and this gets even more dicey when group 2 is forced to purchase an edited edition before they will even consider bringing over the rest of the content. It's like we'll give what parts of this game we think is acceptable, and if your good boys and girls and give us money you can have the rest of it. 

Edited August 1, 2016 by knightnightmare
typo

[Decay]

48 minutes ago, knightnightmare said:

and this gets even more dicey when group 2 is forced to purchase an edited edition before they will even consider bringing over the rest of the content. It's like we'll give what parts of this game we think is acceptable, and if your good boys and girls and give us money you can have the rest of it. 

When has this ever happened?

[sanahtlig]

4 minutes ago, Decay said:

When has this ever happened?

It's the standard company line whenever a non-adult release of an eroge is announced. "We'll consider an adult release depending on how the Kickstarter / Steam release goes".  Debonosu said something similar.

[Decay]

I don't ever recall that happening with Sekai Project at least.

[Suzu Fanatic]

Grisaia series during the early days of the Kickstarter, at the very least.

 

EDIT: initially listed meitetsu, but that's a big unknown atm and not really a valid example.

[Decay]

3 minutes ago, Suzu Fanatic said:

Grisaia series during the early days of the Kickstarter, at the very least.

 

EDIT: initially listed meitetsu, but that's a big unknown atm and not really a valid example.

"Buy lots of all-ages copies and we'll give you an 18+ version" is not something they ever said about Grisaia.

[Darklord Rooke]

30 minutes ago, Decay said:

When has this ever happened?

Koihime Musou -> voices ... whoops, unrelated to the discussion. Ah well  

Does being forced to support Beats Blade on the off chance we'll get Rance in the future count? No? Oh okay  

[Suzu Fanatic]

18 minutes ago, Decay said:

"Buy lots of all-ages copies and we'll give you an 18+ version" is not something they ever said about Grisaia.

Not to be contrary, but you are incorrect. Inside people made those exact allusions. On the old site, some members such as Koesti had made comments along those lines (around December '14)

[knightnightmare]

1 hour ago, Decay said:

When has this ever happened?

That is exactly what they said about Maitetsu during last month's live Q&A, which btw has been removed from YouTube. The reason I know this is I asked the question to which I was scoffed at and basically told to enjoy the game for the world and story and if it done well enough on Steam they'd think about it. Now I understand that content is controversial, but they knew what was in that before they decided to pick it up for publishing. Furthermore if they are willing to take that stand with that title, they would surely do the same with others down the line. 

[sanahtlig]

39 minutes ago, knightnightmare said:

That is exactly what they said about Maitetsu during last month's live Q&A, which btw has been removed from YouTube. The reason I know this is I asked the question to which I was scoffed at and basically told to enjoy the game for the world and story and if it done well enough on Steam they'd think about it.

I scoured the video for mention of Maitetsu and Baldr Sky and I vaguely remember that bit as well.  It simply confirmed my existing view of Sekai Project so I didn't think much of it at the time.

[Marcus]

This latest meltdown may have made waves within the company. Or may not have. Who knows?