KARAKARA, Dovac, Twitter wars, and overcharging for adult content

[ffleader1]

51 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

Dealing with you is just impossible, lol Raimond Quinn is even too symphatetic with you guys, he must have a patience of a saint.

Yeah mind explaining to me why demanding for the core game to be more than the extra stuff is absurd.

[WinterfuryZX]

2 minutes ago, ffleader1 said:

Yeah mind explaining to me why demanding for the core game to be more than the extra stuff is absurd.

I would understand if we were talking abut higher prices, that's just 15 dollars, obviously dlsite have a different discount policy.

[ffleader1]

5 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

I would understand if we were talking abut higher prices, that's just 15 dollars, obviously dlsite have a different discount policy.

That is only one way to look at it: "It's just 15 dollar in total", yeah I give you that.

However, another way to look at this: $5 for core game, and $10 for additional contents. Plus, that $5 has much higher value: more contents; it's from Steam so it has Cards, Achievements, all that; and I can download as many time as I like. With that $10, I got less contents, with like 3 downloads maybe? See, that is the problem of inadequate.

[WinterfuryZX]

I hope next time they'll charge you 30 usd for the base game and 5 usd for the patch, tht way you will be happyer for sure.

[ffleader1]

4 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

I hope next time they'll charge you 30 usd for the base game and 5 usd for the patch, tht way you will be happyer for sure.

Actually, the whole game on Denpa is $20, and if they charge 15 for core game, 5 for patch, and Steam sale 50% then that would be $12.5 in total. I will be happier for sure.

I bought Root Double ($35) on Steam with 20% sale. I can pay huge sum of cash, so long as the contents that I am buying is worth it, meaning I don't feel like being rip off.

So even in your scenario, if a game worth of $30 and $5 for 18+ patch, which means the publishers have gauged and measured the contents value, in which case I won't complain.

Also, FYI, on Steam, I support developers to the point when a game has any DLC, I buy them all (with VN, they are just mostly music of artbook). So, yeah, price is a problem, but I don't care about it  as much as I care about fairness.

[Erogamer]

4 hours ago, ffleader1 said:

That is only one way to look at it: "It's just 15 dollar in total", yeah I give you that.

However, another way to look at this: $5 for core game, and $10 for additional contents. Plus, that $5 has much higher value: more contents; it's from Steam so it has Cards, Achievements, all that; and I can download as many time as I like. With that $10, I got less contents, with like 3 downloads maybe? See, that is the problem of inadequate.

I agree with on the point of hosting the game and the patch for it on separate sites. If people want the full game they should just skip steam tho and buy it on Denpasoft. Games that are on Steam only and have a patch on DL site, not that really upsets me. I have enough accounts as it is, and I never use DL site for my games. These companies should just let MG or some publishing company carry the full game instead of this nonsense.  NFSW Link. https://www.lewdgamer.com/2016/07/28/corona-blossom-vol-1-release-on-steam/   

This is an example of that, and the poor pricing.

[Mkilbride]

10$ to restore the 18+ Content, with the base game 5$? That's just silly.

 

Also Winterfury, Steam is a good metric to judge by. The exposure it gets there is pretty massive compared to others, but until MangaGamer releases their sale numbers for say, Fata Morgana as well, we can't go by anything else.

 

Also, I don't trust that new Nutuku business. They come out of nowhere, and are putting down 10 million investment capital into a market that is known to show poor returns / no growth? Seems fishy to me.  "The Steam of VNs",  But we already have Steam...

[RikiSanic]

The problem with these pricing discussions is that just because it might be the most fair to you doesn't actually mean it makes business sense. Setting the Steam price for $15 and the patch price for $5 presents us with one dilemma: now Steam users have to pay 5 extra dollars for a VN that's already pretty short and has less content than the original. Honestly, I think it'd make more sense to explore 12 to 8 pricing ratios instead, rather than half and half. Regardless, though, if you want the 18+ version you're paying the same thing no matter what the patch is priced at.

I wonder if people would be more comfortable paying $10 more for 18+ content if the Steam version was in the $30 range? Right now Princess Evangile is on Steam for $34.99, whereas it is $44.95 on MangaGamer's store. That's a $10 difference, and there isn't even an option of upgrading via patch.

The real solution to this "if only the price were lower" discussion is using sales to capture more buyers. Personally, I've been somewhat interested in buying Princess Evangile for a while now but MangaGamer's store has infrequent and insignificant sales and even Steam has only ever had a 20% discount even though it's been out for over a year now.

These pricing discussions would matter less if some VNs depreciated in value more fairly. And as long as both the adult and Steam versions have a discount at the same time, the best option for people not comfortable with the price would be to wait. Seems fair to me.

For example, both Clannad and Grisaia got 50% discounts less than a year after release and practically doubled their sales numbers in both cases, becoming some of the best selling VNs ever sold at that price range (obviously, the anime effect also plays a big role).

 

By the way, if you want the best price everyone should seriously consider backing the Indiegogo campaigns for these VNs. The 18+ version of KARAKARA was $10, and Corona Blossom's was $15. You get them much cheaper just for pre-ordering.

[ffleader1]

6 minutes ago, RikiSanic said:

The problem with these pricing discussions is that just because it might be the most fair to you doesn't actually mean it makes business sense. Setting the Steam price for $15 and the patch price for $5 presents us with one dilemma: now Steam users have to pay 5 extra dollars for a VN that's already pretty short and has less content than the original. Honestly, I think it'd make more sense to explore 12 to 8 pricing ratios instead, rather than half and half. Regardless, though, if you want the 18+ version you're paying the same thing no matter what the patch is priced at.

Yeah, I can see that is quite a problem with pricing. To put it simply, Sekai Project charged too much. They could have made both Steam version and Denpa version $15, then throw in a free patch. Less people will complain. But, well...

[sanahtlig]

22 minutes ago, RikiSanic said:

The problem with these pricing discussions is that just because it might be the most fair to you doesn't actually mean it makes business sense.

I've made this point before, but what Sekai Project is trying to accomplish here is product differentiation.  They want to move high volume of product to Steam gamers who are very price sensitive, and maximize revenue per sale from core fans and adult gamers who are less sensitive to price.  They want the best of both worlds.  This makes sense purely from a business min-maxing perspective, but ignores consumer expectations.  Consumers expect that pricing will be fair: that they'll be charged proportionately to the content they're getting.  This issue becomes particularly acute when extra content is considered non-optional or a key reason they're buying the game.  For adult gaming fans, the adult content often qualifies as such.

22 minutes ago, RikiSanic said:

By the way, if you want the best price everyone should seriously consider backing the Indiegogo campaigns for these VNs. The 18+ version of KARAKARA was $10, and Corona Blossom's was $15. You get them much cheaper just for pre-ordering.

Funding such campaigns is risky, if only because backers often don't know how good the game will be.  English reviews are in short supply for non-English games, and in cases like this the game wasn't even out in Japan so backers had no information on the final product at all.  In return for the discount, you agree to assume that risk.

[Mr Poltroon]

34 minutes ago, ffleader1 said:

Yeah, I can see that is quite a problem with pricing. To put it simply, Sekai Project charged too much. They could have made both Steam version and Denpa version $15, then throw in a free patch. Less people will complain. But, well...

Putting aside the discussion on fairness for the moment, Sekai Project's main audience and costumers are undoubtedly the Steam users and, regrettably, it is more sound of a business decision to provide a cheaper Steam game. Essentially, the cheaper the VN on Steam, the more sales it gets (18+ or otherwise).

Let's say they do indeed charge those 15 dollars for the game.* If the drop in sales is too steep, it simply does not compensate.
1) Currently, they get the many Steam buyers (10 dollars) plus the few willing to buy the 18+ patch (10 dollars).
2) If they were to raise the core game to 15 and lower the patch to 5, less Steam users would buy the game, but more would buy both the game and the 18+ patch.
3) Finally, they could raise the price of the main game to 20, and make the 18+ patch free. This would guarantee the adult audience, but scare away the Steam audience due to high prices.

Reality isn't quite so simple that maths would solve this issue. It's not directly proportional and there's no ideal option. There is, however, one guarantee: The Steam audience is larger, if less willing with their wallets, than the adult audience.

Here's the issue. Sekai Project believes the sound business decision is option one, for it has worked out for them thus far (In this assessment, I'm ignoring any potential views on wanting to spread the visual novel genre to as many new costumers as possible). They have no evidence to the contrary and therefore, I completely understand that they will continue to damn the adult consumers with higher prices.
Somebody on this thread brought up the interesting point that Sekai Project is, for the first time, localising a Nukige. That game will be crucial for Sekai Project, as it'll permit them to gauge their adult audience and compare sales between Steam and non-steam games. After said title, they may consider that the adult audience may be worth more effort cultivating... or perhaps, just the opposite.**

 

 

*I'm unsure of the actual values so I'll just start on the assumption that the main game costs 10 dollars right now, and so does the H-Content.
**I do see two issues with this, however.
One is the Steam version for that game. If we assume the same strategy will take place and that the Steam version will be cheaper; how much will the 18+ patch cost? It's the majority of the content, after all. And how many pirates will the Steam version bring with it? It's just "patching a game I already bought", after all.
The second is that due to the disdain Sekai Project has received from the adult community as of late, due to allegedly unfair pricing and disregard toward adult consumers, said adult consumers may actively sabotage the sales of Sekai Project's Nukige, ending Sekai Project's venture into the adult scene once and for all (or at least, putting the few willing adult buyers in an even worse position).

[RikiSanic]

26 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

This makes sense purely from a business min-maxing perspective, but ignores consumer expectations.  Consumers expect that pricing will be fair: that they'll be charged proportionately to the content they're getting.  This issue becomes particularly acute when extra content is considered non-optional or a key reason they're buying the game.  For adult gaming fans, the adult content often qualifies as such.

The only issue I have with this is that the precedent for all ages costing less than the adult version has already been set—and not by Sekai Project. Kira Kira costs $30 on MangaGamer's store but has an all ages version for $20. The price difference is the same for Princess Evangile's two versions: $10. Is the adult content for both VNs worth the ten extra dollars?

The crux of the matter is: Is KARAKARA's short length the only reason people are miffed about paying $10 more? Would people not care as much if it were $5 more instead? Or are people upset that they have to pay for a patch at all? Because if patches were to become free then that would further invalidate the need for Denpasoft, which I don't see to be good for the prospect of future adult releases from Sekai Project.

22 minutes ago, Tiagofvarela said:

One is that Steam version for that game. If we assume the same strategy will take place and that the Steam version will be cheaper; how much will the 18+ patch cost? It's the majority of the content, after all. And how many pirates will the Steam version bring with it? It's just "patching a game I already bought", after all.

I'm under the impression that Sekai Project has been working on Koikuma for a while, and presumably their work has only been on the adult version because even they didn't know that the Japanese developer wanted a Steam version (even their press release said "coming soon exclusively to Denpasoft.com").

In this case, I think Sekai Project should really consider releasing the adult version first on Denpasoft. They need to cultivate an audience for their adult platform, and I don't see a better way to do so. Another simultaneous release would steer Denpasoft even further from relevancy.

I've also heard that Koikuma would need a lot of sanitizing to make it suitable for Steam, so maybe a patch wouldn't even be practical. This could be a positive for directing people to Denpasoft if they want the best version.

[Mkilbride]

1 hour ago, RikiSanic said:

The problem with these pricing discussions is that just because it might be the most fair to you doesn't actually mean it makes business sense. Setting the Steam price for $15 and the patch price for $5 presents us with one dilemma: now Steam users have to pay 5 extra dollars for a VN that's already pretty short and has less content than the original. Honestly, I think it'd make more sense to explore 12 to 8 pricing ratios instead, rather than half and half. Regardless, though, if you want the 18+ version you're paying the same thing no matter what the patch is priced at.

I wonder if people would be more comfortable paying $10 more for 18+ content if the Steam version was in the $30 range? Right now Princess Evangile is on Steam for $34.99, whereas it is $44.95 on MangaGamer's store. That's a $10 difference, and there isn't even an option of upgrading via patch.

The real solution to this "if only the price were lower" discussion is using sales to capture more buyers. Personally, I've been somewhat interested in buying Princess Evangile for a while now but MangaGamer's store has infrequent and insignificant sales and even Steam has only ever had a 20% discount even though it's been out for over a year now.

These pricing discussions would matter less if some VNs depreciated in value more fairly. And as long as both the adult and Steam versions have a discount at the same time, the best option for people not comfortable with the price would be to wait. Seems fair to me.

For example, both Clannad and Grisaia got 50% discounts less than a year after release and practically doubled their sales numbers in both cases, becoming some of the best selling VNs ever sold at that price range (obviously, the anime effect also plays a big role).

 

By the way, if you want the best price everyone should seriously consider backing the Indiegogo campaigns for these VNs. The 18+ version of KARAKARA was $10, and Corona Blossom's was $15. You get them much cheaper just for pre-ordering.

More than Doubled. Clannad has around 7,500 sales. It went on sale for 50% off and now has over 30,000 sales on Steam.  Price is a big factor. Most people think VNs are too expensive.  Voice acting, art, it's expensive, I get that, and some VNs last 30 to 50 hours - some even more, however these days that's not as amazing of a value as it used to be. The Witcher 3 is regularly on sale for 30$ or under. The newest Muv Luv hit Steam for 35$.  Muv Luv + Unlimited, if you do -all- the routes will last you probably 50ish hours.  Most people won't do them all though, as little changes between Unlimited's endings.  However, for 30$, you can get The Witcher 3, which cost 81M to make.  Which has hundreds and hundreds of hours of -unique- content.  I understand VN's are priced high due to the fact they aren't expected to get the sales numbers of a big game...but I think the market has changed and it's a mistake. Clannad launched @ 50$ on Steam. 50 freaking dollars, for a VN!  Now that price was normal in Japan, but in the West, the market is still small, and famous series aren't heard of, or known, nor the genre. All they know is this company wants 50$ for some still pictures, voices, and text. Meanwhile a company  that has fully 3D Animated graphics, voices as well, actual gameplay, ect, costs the same or less. It took more money to develop the game.

 

It also has to do with age. Alot of these VN's are 10 years old, like Clannad & Muv Luv. Paying what is seen as FULL price for them? Maybe that makes sense in Japan, but in the West, digital games / products tend to get cheaper with age...not stay the same.  Also the reason physical VNS copies sold for so much was the whole limited run thing, but now that they're digital? It plainly does not make sense to pay 50$ for a VN, no matter what VN.  I managed to grab Muv Luv on Steam for 15$ from a Fuwa User.  I could just have easily as pirated it - but I didn't, because 15$ was what I valued the game as, as someone who already played it and knows how good it is.   Talk is off Alternative being nearly 50$ as well at release - and it's long, for sure. 60ish hours in length.  It's quality, no doubt...but 50$?  50 + 35$ = 85$ for the complete game?  They have to realize, that won't sell. They should be trying for lower price, more sales, make up for it in quantity. Would you rather 10,000 sales @ 50$, or 60,000 sales @ 20$?  The more people who buy it, the more worth of mouth spreads as well, which leads into more sales.

 

Simply put: VNS are too expensive in the West, especially games that were created over a decade ago, going for full price on Steam.  They want the market to grow, they have to stop pricing so high.  Perceived value is important, especially with Steam sales, where you can pay 5$ and get some game that'll give you 300+ hours of enjoyment.

[Mr Poltroon]

1 minute ago, RikiSanic said:

The only issue I have with this is that the precedent for all ages costing less than the adult version has already been set—and not by Sekai Project. Kira Kira costs $30 on MangaGamer's store but has an all ages version for $20. The price difference is the same for Princess Evangile's two versions: $10. Is the adult content for both VNs worth the ten extra dollars?

The reason is sadly not a rational one. Think of it this way:

a) 10 is a portion of 30. 18+ is a portion of the full game.

b) 10 is half of 20. 18+ does not represent half the game.

 

a) is Kira Kira; the 18+ version has a small increase in price to represent the small amount of content that the 18+ version brings.
b) is KARAKARA; the 18+ version costs the same as the core game, but the 18+ version does not represent half the content in the game.

In KARAKARA's case, the amount of 18+ content is probably lesser than the 18+ content in Kira Kira, but even if we assume the content itself was the same, people would be fine with the pricing in case a), while they would not in case b).

 

[ffleader1]

2 minutes ago, Tiagofvarela said:

The reason is sadly not a rational one. Think of it this way:

a) 10 is a portion of 30. 18+ is a portion of the full game.

b) 10 is half of 20. 18+ does not represent half the game.

 

a) is Kira Kira; the 18+ version has a small increase in price to represent the small amount of content that the 18+ version brings.
b) is KARAKARA; the 18+ version costs the same as the core game, but the 18+ version does not represent half the content in the game.

In KARAKARA's case, the amount of 18+ content is probably lesser than the 18+ content in Kira Kira, but even if we assume the content itself was the same, people would be fine with the pricing in case a), while they would not in case b).

 

This.
I mean if SP price Karakra like 15/5 instead of 10/10 then I could wait for the core game to go on sale 50% and grab both, for just a little more than $10, and I can live with that.

Either way, your previous post make sense.

51 minutes ago, Tiagofvarela said:

1) Currently, they get the many Steam buyers (10 dollars) plus the few willing to buy the 18+ patch (10 dollars).
2) If they were to raise the core game to 15 and lower the patch to 5, less Steam users would buy the game, but more would buy both the game and the 18+ patch.
3) Finally, they could raise the price of the main game to 20, and make the 18+ patch free. This would guarantee the adult audience, but scare away the Steam audience due to high prices.

 

SP has been doing fine with way 1 since Nekopara 2, and "If it ain't broke, why fix it". Really bad practice for consumer but there is no major backslash anyway, cuz $10 is not that much to cause a huge fuzz so not many people will care. However, if they apply that to game with a huge amount of contents...well, they won't. People at SP can think after all. But how about another way: price both Steam and Denpa for $15, with a FREE patch like a way 2.5 of yours, with 20% discount on launch. Even less people will complain.

Also, I do not believe that facing backslash will make Dovac rethink about his strategy and stop providing the 18+ contents all together. I mean if Dovac actually did so, he is a sissy and he would even face more backslash; and since he was such a sissy to that degree, he would have to provide 18+ contents again.

[Mr Poltroon]

10 minutes ago, ffleader1 said:

SP has been doing fine with way 1 since Nekopara 2, and "If it ain't broke, why fix it". Really bad practice for consumer but there is no major backslash anyway, cuz $10 is not that much to cause a huge fuzz so not many people will care. However, if they apply that to game with a huge amount of contents...well, they won't. People at SP can think after all. But how about another way: price both Steam and Denpa for $15, with a FREE patch like a way 2.5 of yours, with 20% discount on launch. Even less people will complain.

Herein lies the issue. Sekai Project has no guarantees this will hold true. We're in a world of hypotheticals when it comes to pricing. Maybe you're right. Maybe the adult gamers would compensate the steam ones lost from the higher price. Then again, maybe they won't. The only way to know is test it out, and, even then, every game is different. Sekai Project isn't all that motivated to "test it out" because their sales figures are working out for them at the moment.

Simply complaining doesn't seem to make Sekai believe any option other that 1) is sound, for these shorter games. And for longer games the landscape changes completely. Making the 18+ patch 10 dollars when the main game is 30 dollars will be perceived as fair, after all. In all likelihood, Sekai Project will just price all their 18+ patches at around 10 dollars, regardless of the length of the core game.

10 minutes ago, ffleader1 said:

Also, I do not believe that facing backslash will make Dovac rethink about his strategy and stop providing the 18+ contents all together. I mean if Dovac actually did so, he is a sissy and he would even face more backslash; and since he was such a sissy to that degree, he would have to provide 18+ contents again.

Sekai Project has shown no aversion from any kind of title. I won't say they'll stop providing 18+ content at all, but I wouldn't be surprised if they gave up on nukiges and made securing an 18+ version in their business dealings even less of a priority.

[sanahtlig]

41 minutes ago, RikiSanic said:

The crux of the matter is: Is KARAKARA's short length the only reason people are miffed about paying $10 more? Would people not care as much if it were $5 more instead? Or are people upset that they have to pay for a patch at all? Because if patches were to become free then that would further invalidate the need for Denpasoft, which I don't see to be good for the prospect of future adult releases from Sekai Project.

 

33 minutes ago, Tiagofvarela said:

The reason is sadly not a rational one. Think of it this way:

a) 10 is a portion of 30. 18+ is a portion of the full game.

b) 10 is half of 20. 18+ does not represent half the game.

 

a) is Kira Kira; the 18+ version has a small increase in price to represent the small amount of content that the 18+ version brings.
b) is KARAKARA; the 18+ version costs the same as the core game, but the 18+ version does not represent half the content in the game.

In KARAKARA's case, the amount of 18+ content is probably lesser than the 18+ content in Kira Kira, but even if we assume the content itself was the same, people would be fine with the pricing in case a), while they would not in case b).

 

This isn't a binary yes/no question.  It's a sliding scale.  The closer to "fair" the pricing seems, the fewer people will be turned away because they feel they're being gouged.  I wasn't happy with MangaGamer's pricing scheme either.  In fact, I complained to JAST USA and MangaGamer about it also.  (You can read Peter Payne's response at that link as well).  JAST gets around the problem by releasing on Steam later, so that early adopters of the adult versions pay a premium for "early access", which is an acceptable compromise and consistent with consumer expectations.

[RikiSanic]

15 minutes ago, Tiagofvarela said:

The reason is sadly not a rational one. Think of it this way:

a) 10 is a portion of 30. 18+ is a portion of the full game.

b) 10 is half of 20. 18+ does not represent half the game.

a) is Kira Kira; the 18+ version has a small increase in price to represent the small amount of content that the 18+ version brings.
b) is KARAKARA; the 18+ version costs the same as the core game, but the 18+ version does not represent half the content in the game.

In KARAKARA's case, the amount of 18+ content is probably lesser than the 18+ content in Kira Kira, but even if we assume the content itself was the same, people would be fine with the pricing in case a), while they would not in case b).

You're right, it's not rational and that's why I have trouble agreeing with some of the overcharging for adult content accusations.

As someone who's played both, Kira Kira's adult content is probably 10% of the VN at most and KARAKARA's is around 25%.

Put another way, 1/3 of Kira Kira's price represents 10% of content, whereas 1/2 of KARAKARA's price represents 25%. Just in terms of the ratio of content, KARAKARA is a better deal (of course, Kira Kira is a much longer game, but that doesn't change the fact that those who buy the all ages version pay less for just a small reduction in content).

I realize that it looks worse from a glance in KARAKARA's case, but all ages buyers are always getting a heck of a good deal as long as you're paying $10 more for adult content. It's always been disproportional.

34 minutes ago, Mkilbride said:

Simply put: VNS are too expensive in the West, especially games that were created over a decade ago, going for full price on Steam.  They want the market to grow, they have to stop pricing so high.  Perceived value is important, especially with Steam sales, where you can pay 5$ and get some game that'll give you 300+ hours of enjoyment.

I don't actually see a problem with pricing VNs highly—at launch. Let's say you have 1,000 buyers who will pay any price for a VN. It makes sense to get the most out of this group as possible. But let's also say 3,000 people would be willing to pay half the price. This is why value should depreciate after a certain amount of time. Clannad's pricing was actually smart in this sense.

The bottom line: put your VNs on sale! I know Japanese partners can make this difficult but it's the only way to get residual sales.

[Mr Poltroon]

Just now, sanahtlig said:

 

This isn't a binary yes/no question.  It's a sliding scale.  The closer to "fair" the pricing seems, the fewer people will be turned away because they feel they're being gouged.  I wasn't happy with MangaGamer's pricing scheme either.  In fact, I complained to JAST USA and MangaGamer about it also.  (You can read Peter Payne's response at that link as well).  JAST gets around the problem by releasing on Steam later, so that early adopters of the adult versions pay a premium for "early access", which is an acceptable compromise.

Well, don't take it as a binary yes/no.

I was more trying to make a point in that "fairness" is wrongly associated to a comparison between the length of the extra content we pay for and the length of the core game itself.
In my eyes, it should be associated to the extra content only, no strings attached. If we go by terms of length, let's say users found 10 dollars acceptable for three H-Scenes. The same should hold true regardless of whether the game is 2 hours long or 20.

[sanahtlig]

10 minutes ago, Tiagofvarela said:

In my eyes, it should be associated to the extra content only, no strings attached. If we go by terms of length, let's say users found 10 dollars acceptable for three H-Scenes. The same should hold true regardless of whether the game is 2 hours long or 20.

I disagree, for exactly the reasons @Rooke pointed out in his argument against me earlier.  The basis for comparison should be the price of the cut version, not other games or discrete "content chunks" of an arbitrary game.  This allows the flexible relative pricing structure that digital content with front-loaded development costs and near-zero distribution costs demands.

[Mr Poltroon]

3 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

I disagree, for exactly the reasons Rooke pointed out in his argument against me earlier.  The basis for comparison should be the price of the cut version, not other games.  This allows the flexible relative pricing that digital content with front-loaded development costs and near-zero distribution costs demands.

I wouldn't want to write down a reply that would entirely miss the point, so I'm afraid you'll have to explain what reasons exactly lead to your disagreement.

[sanahtlig]

On 7/30/2016 at 9:05 AM, Rooke said:

That’s a flawed idea, and it’s flawed because you’re attributing worth to amount of content. This is probably the same sort of idea Key has (quality equals number of lines) when they pump out their horrendously bloated VNs. In fact, many content creators will tell you the same thing, which is that charging proportionally for items due to ‘content’ is not the way to go.

If Rowling withheld the 2nd last chapter of Harry Potter from everyone, the bit with the climax in it, how much would that be worth to people? I'd wager the number of lines has very little to do with it.

Whether Sekai overcharges for the erotic content or not is probably related to business decisions that I’m not going to comment on. But the idea of setting a price for one version of the story based (loosely or not) on how many additional lines or CGs are added is something I'm loath to endorse. For a whole crapload of reasons. Reasons most of the community don't think about. Sure, companies abuse this by setting the price of expansion or additional content arbitrarily high, but isn't this solved by traditional market pressures? If companies set the price of additional content too high, people won't buy and they'll lose money? And if people do buy, then it's obviously not too high?

The alternative 'pricing for amount of content' isn't really a road I want to head down.

@TiagofvarelaThat's the relevant quote.  Restricting this to tethering the adult and non-adult version prices individually for each title mitigates the undesirable anti-market effects, in my opinion.

[RikiSanic]

If companies were to price adult versions proportionally then adult versions would cost like 2 or 3 dollars more. I doubt even their partners would approve that.

In reality, people seem to be fine paying $10 more as long as the adult version costs more than $20, and are even more willing if it's $30 or more.

The closer you get to the $10 extra being half the price of the full VN, the more people will complain it seems. I guess that's the reality Sekai Project will face as long as they price their cheaper titles this way—unless they decide to change the way they do things.

 

[Mr Poltroon]

3 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

@TiagofvarelaThat's the relevant quote.  Restricting this to tethering the adult and non-adult version prices individually for each title mitigates the undesirable anti-market effects, in my opinion.

Said undesirable anti-market effects really go over my head. I simply don't understand.

What I can address is the issue of charging for amount of content.

Basing pricing on a comparison between the amount of content in the core game and the amount of content added by the 18+ version does not solve the issue of value being attributed to amount content.
If such will be the case regardless, I find it fairer that the content be judged by itself, and not by being compared to the core game.

 

In what other way would one intend to evaluate the price of any kind of content? Quality?
I feel I am missing or incapable of understanding many pieces of the puzzle on this matter, including what exactly you find objectionable.

[Mkilbride]

I'm just shocked the 18+ Version costs more at all. Every big name VN that released on Steam usually releases 18+ patches for it for free. So the fact this is even a thing, is shocking.