sanahtlig Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 40 minutes ago, Chuee said: Not to mention this persons "excuse" is a giant joke. " If you don’t know how I work on my patches, it’s quite simple: if there is a Steam version and a japanese version (priority is disc > download), I usually make a patch for the Steam release. Some people, like me, prefer also to directly support the developers, so even though you are holding two copies of the game, you cannot transfer the content between them even though they’re the exact same game with the exact same files. I’ve been always pretty vocal about this stuff and how it’s terrible to make you buy a third thing (usually the patch) to use the content you already own. " Apparently they're for people who have the steam version as well as the standalone 18+ version? That makes 0 sense at all It actually does make sense, just not by conventional standards. Suppose the following is always true: You buy the English version to support the translation of the game and have it on Steam. You buy the Japanese version to support the creation of the game. You want the full content of the Japanese adult release in English. In order to fulfill all conditions with 2 purchases, you have to buy the Japanese version and the Steam version and then use a patch to restore the adult content to the Steam version. Buying the patch would constitute a 3rd purchase. I don't think it justifies hosting warez, but I see his logic. Suzu Fanatic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcosis Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I sometimes wonder, whether it was worth all those years of community hardships and enduring just to end up with the kind of bullshit we have now. XReaper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_blade64 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 He host patches for both higurashi and umineko, but what kind of patch are those? Both higurashi and umineko don't have any 18+ content besides slighty nudity with the old sprites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterfuryZX Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Dark_blade64 said: He host patches for both higurashi and umineko, but what kind of patch are those? Both higurashi and umineko don't have any 18+ content besides slighty nudity with the old sprites. ps3 cgs and sprites, Alchemist is now out of business, he's braking copyright law but he doesnt damage anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_blade64 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Just now, WinterfuryZX said: ps3 cgs and sprites. Aha, I see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 Also, I can say from experience that trying to affiliate market games from MangaGamer's store is a fool's errand. It's doubtful he's making any significant amounts of money from it, and on top of that you have to make a huge amount to even be able to withdraw it. The general consensus is that their affiliate program is broken. People after money don't affiliate market the MangaGamer store. It just isn't worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRaven Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 1 hour ago, sanahtlig said: Problem: the premise for most of your post appears to be baseless speculation. No, it's simply a matter of common sense. Several of MangaGamer's best selling titles are adult only like Eroge or ImoPara while Dovac claims that adult titles don't sell. And it's probably true for his company Sekai Project, but obviously not for MangaGamer. Otherwise I'd be extremely curious to hear, how on earth a rather new site with barely any remarkabale content like Denpasoft should have even a remotely comparable number of registered accounts like a ten year old site of the most established VN publisher in the west with hundreds of titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 25 minutes ago, sanahtlig said: It actually does make sense, just not by conventional standards. Suppose the following is always true: You buy the English version to support the translation of the game and have it on Steam. You buy the Japanese version to support the creation of the game. You want the full content of the Japanese adult release in English. In order to fulfill all conditions with 2 purchases, you have to buy the Japanese version and the Steam version and then use a patch to restore the adult content to the Steam version. Buying the patch would constitute a 3rd purchase. I don't think it justifies hosting warez, but I see his logic. Even in KARAKARA's case when there is no English or Japanese version..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 15 minutes ago, Kiriririri said: Even in KARAKARA's case when there is no English or Japanese version..? Touche. This is a rather unique circumstance since even the 18+ package release will be dual language. 15 minutes ago, ChaosRaven said: No, it's simply a matter of common sense. Several of MangaGamer's best selling titles are adult only like Eroge or ImoPara while Dovac claims that adult titles don't sell. And it's probably true for his company Sekai Project, but obviously not for MangaGamer. Otherwise I'd be extremely curious to hear, how on earth a rather new site with barely any remarkabale content like Denpasoft should have even a remotely comparable number of registered accounts like a ten year old site of the most established VN publisher in the west with hundreds of titles. Ok. Sure, I'll buy that there's some difference in number of accounts capable of purchasing adult titles from the new publishers. The audiences for Sekai Project and MangaGamer are entirely different. Their attitudes towards adult material are different. Their lineup of titles is entirely different. Their marketing is entirely different. There's many, many factors at play here. Singling out any one isn't going to close the gap. In order to make the adult side of their business a success, Sekai Project basically needs to reinvent their entire strategy from the ground up. They need to, essentially, become a MangaGamer or Nutaku. Such a radical change would require a far greater investment of resources than they're prepared to sink into it. More likely is that Sekai Project will simply exit the adult market because it's not worth the effort for a simple side business, fans be damned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRaven Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, sanahtlig said: There's many, many factors at play here. Singling out any one isn't going to close the gap. In order to make the adult side of their business a success, Sekai Project basically needs to reinvent their entire strategy from the ground up. They need to, essentially, become MangaGamer. Such a radical change would require a far greater investment of resources than they're prepared to sink into it. More likely is that Sekai Project will simply exit the adult market because it's not worth the effort for a simple side business, fans be damned. I think if Dovac really wanted to abandon adult titles he would have done it already. His main mistake is that he expects his adult section to grow as fast as his all ages section, which is simply not possible without a similar public distribution platform like Steam for adult titles. They already made the best out of it with adult patches, but the situation is certainly not perfect for both sides. Overall, I think they simply need more patience. Adult titles are an investement in the future, the demand is certainly there. Sekai Project are in a way better position now than MangaGamer was in their early years so I think if they really get serious with adult titles, which they didn't really do until now with Koikuma, they will succeed sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DharmaFreedom Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I think everyone basically agrees that the imouto works guy is totally at fault here, and he's handling this situation just as poorly as dovac in his own way. He doesn't have the right to demand an email or other forms of conversation from SP, a richer company would have let the lawyers deal with it without the CEO ever saying a word to the guy. Imouto works would lose and have to shoulder all the legals fees of SP then and that would sink them i think. The things dovac says on his twitter amazes me though, "I can't wait to exit this market. Jesus Christ" for example, [also referencing the other things you guys have mentioned]. I get that you're mad and you put a disclaimer up saying that it's your own opinion and not that of the company but come on. You are the face of Sekai, if you say something like that openly on your acc, your supporters are going to feel let down and cast aside. Knowing that these thoughts may be a possibility or a goal to you after all the support you've gotten from consumers... I know a lot of people hate on SP for whatever reason and I'm not going to argue those points. I'm saying that he should focus on all the positives and just learn from the negatives. Not harp on it in public spaces for all to see and provide ammunition for the people that hate you. It would be disappointing if he just snaps one day [what if? scenario] and decides to scrap SP's involvement in Vns and reset to something else. They've brought in some great games, and i'm sure they'll keep getting more in time. [not going to mention the negatives, everyone has their own points on those]. This Dovac guy just needs to learn how to deal with haters or hire someone else to deal with them. Also not put everything out in the open. That disclaimer doesn't mean a thing when you're the CEO of the company. sanahtlig and Tyr 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 To me, it looks like Dovac and Sekai Project created that sub-brand so that they could handle h-content at a remove (with the proverbial ten foot pole) so that if legal issues about obscenity laws pop up they can cut the sub-brand and blame everything on the people running it, so they don't have to fork out the cash for legal fees and to handle the bad publicity they are really afraid of. A large factor contributing to the fact that the VN localization industry is so small is because of erotic content, after all. It just isn't worth the risk in the mind of someone who isn't an otaku himself. Edit: As for Imouto Works... I'm neutral, simply because both sides are being stupid at this point. Edit2: From the point of view of a corporate leader who isn't a VN-reading hentai otaku, there is little to no value in keeping the h-content, as it adds to potential risks in a business that is already medium-risk, low-profit (translation costs, licensing costs, etc versus unknown number of people willing to purchase it) industry. Hanny, XReaper and WinterfuryZX 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Clephas said: Edit2: From the point of view of a corporate leader who isn't a VN-reading hentai otaku, there is little to no value in keeping the h-content, as it adds to potential risks in a business that is already medium-risk, low-profit (translation costs, licensing costs, etc versus unknown number of people willing to purchase it) industry. It keeps the people who make porn their way of life happy though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyldstrykr Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, solidbatman said: It keeps the people who make porn their way of life happy though we will see if people read vn for porn or for the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Just now, wyldstrykr said: we will see if people read vn for porn or for the story. We already know the answer to that. *sadly looks at Fata Morgana's sales* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mkilbride Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, solidbatman said: We already know the answer to that. *sadly looks at Fata Morgana's sales* http://steamspy.com/app/303310 Ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyldstrykr Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Mkilbride said: 8 minutes ago, solidbatman said: We already know the answer to that. *sadly looks at Fata Morgana's sales* http://steamspy.com/app/303310 Ouch. vn for fapping material.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvz Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 wait, wait, Aaeru is gone, gone, like, dead? And reading this thread, I agree with many here. Both parts are being childish, although Imouto Works is probably just being ironic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mkilbride said: http://steamspy.com/app/303310 Ouch. Best VN on the market right now too in my opinion. At least they are still giving us the fandisc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mkilbride Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I haven't read Fata Morgana yet, but it's on my list, as it looked deliciously creepy...but I can certainly understand. You have to understand yourselves guys, "All Ages" sets a tone for games and people reflect that. When you saw 18+ on a VN, it could contain anything. Sex. Blood. Gore. Crazy shit. Now on Steam...stuff is censored. People want 18+ VNs, not for the sex, but for the license of "Anything can happen here...nothing is censored" even with the new MLA release, they're talking about toning down / potentially removing the "CHOMP" - As well as some of the more bloody moments. i.e, wounds, but not blood. I get they do this to sell on Steam, but hey...wanna point something out I pointed out on the Muv Luv forums. The highest sold VN on Steam, are ones with tons of fanservice / that release with 18+ patches. This is a fact of life people. Clannad sold like 2,500 copies - until they discounted it to over 50% off, and now it's sold over 30,000. So price + the whole "Ages 12 and up" disclaimer, makes people think it's for kids. That it won't be mature / have a good story. You can check SteamSpy. Sort by Visual Novels. Copies sold. Then filter out Commercial games that are RPGS /w VN elements(Neptunia, ect), and remove the "Free" VNS...and you'll see, all the "Good" VNs on Steam have barely sold at all. A few thousand copies for some, or like Fata above, a few hundred. Ages 12 and up is not appealing to a playerbase consisting of people on average over 22. | Most sold VN on Steam, not including ones that have gameplay besides VN Gameplay / freebies / OLVENS. http://store.steampowered.com/app/269250 http://steamspy.com/app/269250 60,000 copies...but it's been on sale for for like 4$ before...so take that into account. Now let's look at G-Senjou. http://steamspy.com/app/377670 Been almost a year since it hit Steam. Around 5,000 copies sold. Higurashi is being sold for cheap, bit by bit, and it's sales for the first are around 60,000 - the ones after it only have a few thousand. VNs, unless heavily sexualized, are not selling well on Steam. Sakura series has hundreds of thousands of sales. Hanny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverLi Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 The difference between Sekai and MG is that MG want to release that 18+ title and does so. If they have any delay they are actually communicating with the fanbase. In Sekas case we seriously don't know anything and we have to seriously spam Dovac's Twitter or the Kickstarter sites for any answers and he responds in a rather unprofessional way "maybe" most of the time. We are still waiting for the Grisaia 18+ releases for example. This is just a huge mess and people wanting to pay for the adult releases doesn't think Sekai is trustworthy enough to sell the 18+ titles, heck I am one of them and I don't trust them after countless of messy Kickstarters and vague answers. And as someone said earlier here. Their current selection is rather pathetic compared to the rivals. I think Sekai doesn't want to do it but because such a large part of the market demands it they are torn apart in their own belief and the customer's belief. I would gladly pay for it and since I got a job I am paying for most of my titles to "support the market" as Dovac himself said. He doesn't impress and me buying stuff from Sekai when he bashes the whole community is not improving Sekai's chances. I have supported and bought some of the titles. The problem is that their selection isn't that appealing to me at the moment. But I still understand Dovac's frustration and whenever we have the option to pay for the content which is lacking from the original release someone shouldn't offer that patch for free. Pirating is bad when you can pay for the game and it is available. I know it is a pathetic thing to say but I have Rooke's view on pirating here. I have done it before and I am still doing it to some small extent when I am unsure if I would like the game and the reviews are intriguing but not convincing. But who knows how many crappy titles I have bought from MG as compensation for all these years without paying for the crappy titles. Yes I have payed for games which is just collecting dust because I have played it before on a pirated version. If people had this view pirating wouldn't be a bad thing per se. But that's something for another day and topic. Maybe a little too much ranting and not exactly on point. Erogamer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I am never for actual story related sex scenes being removed. Blood and gore should also not be removed. But most VNs really dont do story related sex scenes. Maybe Grisaia, and thats it? Most are there to sell copies which is why I dont really care when they do get removed. I absolutely prefer two releases as opposed to an all ages only release, but again, it simply is not something I care very much about as it has no bearing on getting VNs more mainstream in the West in my opinion. I completely understand that some people really really enjoy the 18+ aspect, but said 18+ aspect will not make VNs popular to a wider audience. Might sell well in the current audience for sure. Again, actual story should never be cut. The MoeNovel debacle should never be repeated. XReaper, Kawasumi, sanahtlig and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erogamer Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 15 minutes ago, SilverLi said: The difference between Sekai and MG is that MG want to release that 18+ title and does so. If they have any delay they are actually communicating with the fanbase. In Sekas case we seriously don't know anything and we have to seriously spam Dovac's Twitter or the Kickstarter sites for any answers and he responds in a rather unprofessional way "maybe" most of the time. We are still waiting for the Grisaia 18+ releases for example. This is just a huge mess and people wanting to pay for the adult releases doesn't think Sekai is trustworthy enough to sell the 18+ titles, heck I am one of them and I don't trust them after countless of messy Kickstarters and vague answers. And as someone said earlier here. Their current selection is rather pathetic compared to the rivals. I think Sekai doesn't want to do it but because such a large part of the market demands it they are torn apart in their own belief and the customer's belief. I would gladly pay for it and since I got a job I am paying for most of my titles to "support the market" as Dovac himself said. He doesn't impress and me buying stuff from Sekai when he bashes the whole community is not improving Sekai's chances. I have supported and bought some of the titles. The problem is that their selection isn't that appealing to me at the moment. But I still understand Dovac's frustration and whenever we have the option to pay for the content which is lacking from the original release someone shouldn't offer that patch for free. Pirating is bad when you can pay for the game and it is available. I know it is a pathetic thing to say but I have Rooke's view on pirating here. I have done it before and I am still doing it to some small extent when I am unsure if I would like the game and the reviews are intriguing but not convincing. But who knows how many crappy titles I have bought from MG as compensation for all these years without paying for the crappy titles. Yes I have payed for games which is just collecting dust because I have played it before on a pirated version. If people had this view pirating wouldn't be a bad thing per se. But that's something for another day and topic. Maybe a little too much ranting and not exactly on point. I agree with you. I have pirated Da Capo 1 and 2, but since I liked them so much I bought them later to support the Devs even tho I already played them . I played Grisaia before it was localized, but I am not sure I want to buy it from Sekai/Denpasoft. I did however buy Nekopara physical copy from them. I am willing to support the devs, but when a localizing company is operated like SP, I am not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 56 minutes ago, solidbatman said: It keeps the people who make porn their way of life happy though Mmm... right now Dovac and Sekai Project are trying to get the best of both worlds with as little risk and as much benefit as possible. Eventually, their current model is going to screw them over if they aren't willing to settle for a lower margin on the h-material, just from a pragmatic perspective. If you sell three hundred h-versions but one thousand use the pirate patch who would have been willing to pay if the price was a bit lower... well, you can see who loses out, right? To be honest, it sometimes amazes me how much Dovac resembles that corrupt pharma bastard Shrkeli in tone and action. There isn't a whole lot to squeeze out of the VN market at this point, and if you go too far, about two-thirds of the normally-paying community will be perfectly willing to pirate your content if they think it is too highly priced (this is ignoring the people who pirate regardless, as their opinions really don't matter). As a practical matter, the VN community and industry has always been an interlinked seesaw that swings back between surges of piracy and purchases. This is because a lot of the people in the VN community don't have a ton of liquid assets in the first place, beyond what they need to stay alive and with a roof over their heads. If you price the VNs too high for the amount of content, the community pirates like crazy. If you price it too low, you don't make a profit. If he has a working brain, Dovac will eventually have to strike a balance between overt profit-mongering and sales... to be honest, his singular talent for alienating the community is pretty amusing from where I stand. As another practical matter, nukige-lovers started the VN localization industry, for all intents and purposes. Their insane obsessions resulted in the birth of the first VN-localization companies, and they still remain either the largest minority or the majority, depending on whom you ask. Avoiding h-content when you are trying to sell localized VNs in the West is fairly stupid, because you alienate the most solid, obsessed, and wealthy part of the fanbase... a fact that is what led to them releasing those overpriced h-versions in the first place, lol. I can see the logic behind what Dovac did, but the man is an idiot when it comes to PR. The way he speaks on Twitter is like saying to the world that the whole reason he is doing it is to squeeze more green paper juice out of the community and marginalize the h-addicts. Edit: To put it a bit more simply... all-ages titles are more likely to draw in the new crowd, but h-content is needed to satisfy the older, more wealthy and reliable crowd. Dovac is trying to squeeze the more reliable crowd, but he is doing it in a way that is way too blatant and stupid. Not a scrap of the subtle, manipulative marketer in that man... he probably is gambling that he won't alienate enough of the solid base with his strategy to lose a large percentage of their purchasing power outright. Unfortunately, the moron seems to be incapable of figuring his own loose tongue into the equation. Once again, Dovac is an idiot. Edit2: The best thing a company president can do in this kind of case is sit back and SAY NOTHING. Don't reply, don't throw insults, don't make reasoned arguments. Just shut up and let the community fight it out amongst themselves. There are enough people here willing to justify his case without having him throw a nuke into the ring. Darklord Rooke, Chronopolis, Zenophilious and 10 others 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorathiel Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 39 minutes ago, Mkilbride said: http://steamspy.com/app/303310 Ouch. Saddest thing I saw all week. D; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.