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Can somebody explain to me why is this bad [tracing]


Nekolover

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http://haruhichan.com/wpblog/25694/no-game-no-life-author-has-been-caught-tracing/ 

Yeah, I don't get it.   I have seen countless box art for games and books that look the same. Especially being in the same position.  So can somebody tell me why tracing is bad when the fucking characters and art style are different?   

 

Edit 

Yeah feel free to argue.  I just going to move on. These are the same reasons people keep giving me. Which make zero sense to me. 

 
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Because tracing in a way is fraud, you are taking parts of other's people's work underhandedly into your own without any credit whatsoever, with the note that fair use has no place here. Adding to that you are skimping on your own work in general as well, on top of being debatably wrong ethically, you're just being plain lazy.

 

Basically it all comes down to the appropriation of the work in its entirety without any kind of crediting and/or permission request, even if most of it is the work of the artist/author, not all of it is, and that's the gist of the point. If any of the aforementioned was done, then the act wouldn't be inherently bad. So yeah, food for thought I suppose.

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Just now, madvanced said:

Because tracing in a way is fraud, you are taking parts of other's people's work underhandedly into your own without any credit whatsoever, with the note that fair use has no place here. Adding to that you are skimping on your own work in general as well, on top of being debatably wrong ethically, you're just being plain lazy.

 

Basically it all comes down to the appropriation of the work in its entirety without any kind of crediting and/or permission request, even if most of it is the work of the artist/author, not all of it is, and that's the gist of the point. If any of the aforementioned was done, then the act wouldn't be inherently bad. So yeah, food for thought I suppose.

 

Yeah, make zero sense to me.  Is like getting piss that somebody else made a car too after you invented it. 

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Just now, Nekolover said:

Yeah, make zero sense to me.  Is like getting piss that somebody else made a car too after you invented it. 

Not really, the analogy would be better if the guy that made the car afterwards took parts of the other car, without designing them nor asking for any kind of permission about their use. As you can see while most of the other parts would've been done by "Person B" he still took part of "Person A"'s design/parts without any kind of permission nor credit, now that seems a bit more wrong doesn't it?

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Yeah not letting quote what I want.  I don't see it that way.  That not what I mean by that analogy.   All I am seeing is a guy that like this position and copy it.  Then made it own with own art style and characters.  Sorry not getting it.  All I am seeing is some bullshit medieval code of honor crap.  

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17 minutes ago, Nekolover said:

Yeah, make zero sense to me.  Is like getting piss that somebody else made a car too after you invented it. 

Well it's fine if they made a car after I invented it, but it's not okay to steal the invention, call it an icar and brand it as your own.

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3 minutes ago, iamnoob said:

Well it's fine if they made a car after I invented it, but it's not okay to steal the invention, call it an icar and brand it as your own.

What he did.  Not of this guys invented any of the positions there.  He just traces the position and put his own characters in it with own art style .  Also calling it something else is stupid. Is a car so calling it something else is stupid.     Anyway do you see anybody calling their car  icar ? No.  Maybe the design of the car but not what it is.  

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Just now, Nekolover said:

What he did.  Not of this guys invented any of the positions there.  He just traces the position and put his own characters in it with own art style .  

The "just traces" part is copyright infringement and is a crime believe it or not, it's not a code of honor thing, it's taking part of someone else's work as your own.

For example I'm taking a major in languages, linguistics, literature and all of that kind of nonsense, if I were to take a single sentence from someone else's work without crediting them even in any written work/paper of mine that was delivered to any of my classes I could get, if caught, sued and expelled from university while being unable to attend it for at least 2 years(can't recall exactly if it's 2 or 5 years).

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Just now, madvanced said:

The "just traces" part is copyright infringement and is a crime believe it or not, it's not a code of honor thing, it's taking part of someone else's work as your own.

For example I'm taking a major in languages, linguistics, literature and all of that kind of nonsense, if I were to take a single sentence from someone else's work without crediting them even in any written work/paper of mine that was delivered to any of my classes I could get, if caught, sued and expelled from university while being unable to attend it for at least 2 years(can't recall exactly if it's 2 or 5 years).

 

That different. Anyway, I am dropping this.  I don't get it. Been trying to get it over 2 years and still make zero sense to me.  

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1 minute ago, Nekolover said:

That different. Anyway, I am dropping this.  I don't get it. Been trying to get it over 2 years and still make zero sense to me.  

How is it any different? In it's genesis it's still talking a part of someone else's work as your own no matter how small what was taken is. While I'm not calling you out in any way shape or form, you're not getting it because you can't change the way you're thinking about it.

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5 minutes ago, madvanced said:

How is it any different? In it's genesis it's still talking a part of someone else's work as your own no matter how small what was taken is. While I'm not calling you out in any way shape or form, you're not getting it because you can't change the way you're thinking about it.

 
 
 

Because you or anybody else hasn't made an argument that makes sense to me.   Also, I don't see how tracing a position is somebody else work.  Calling me  out?  Because I have a different way of thinking or views on something? Sure, go ahead.   Anyway, I am dropping it.  If you continue with this. I will ignore you. 

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Just now, Nekolover said:

Because you or anybody else hasn't made an argument that makes sense to me.   Also, I don't see how tracing a position is somebody else work.  Calling me  out?  Because I have a different way of thinking or views on something? Sure, go ahead.   

I just literally told you I wasn't calling you out, there's no need to get aggressive.

Then I'm gonna make an example, let's say you draw a person, a landscape or whatever, I go ahead and trace the unique outlines of your drawing(doesn't matter how much of it), add some stuff of my own and call the entire thing my own work. Would you be ok with me taking a part of what you did without asking for you permission nor credit you?

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Just now, madvanced said:

I just literally told you I wasn't calling you out, there's no need to get aggressive.

Then I'm gonna make an example, let's say you draw a person, a landscape or whatever, I go ahead and trace the unique outlines of your drawing(doesn't matter how much of it), add some stuff of my own and call the entire thing my own work. Would you be ok with me taking a part of what you did without asking for you permission nor credit you?

 

First, that really seem petty to me. Also, I not angry but you may get angry over my lack of agreeing with something you view differently. Also, will like not spending all day here.  unique outlines of your drawing ? What unique about outlines?

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It doesn't matter if you get it or not, that is just how the law works. if you take a char and only modify the angle of it and color it it still means you used someone else art work and if you don't give him credits/ not got his permission you're are in the wrong. that how things works.... I still agree it's petty and it's just a part he did use not the whole outlining + his art looks mostly better than the original... but does that change the fact it's illegal nope it does not.  

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Nekolover is English your first language? It's getting slightly difficult to understand your posts. Also no need to get so defensive, you started this topic and we are curious and want discussion. That's a main point of forums.

 

Back to the topic, perhaps we have different degrees in which we regard "copying".

If he were simply copying the poses, I would personally not have a problem with it. Like you said, the pose does not and should not belong to anyone, it's like the FineBros trying to copyright the word REACT.

My problem comes from the TRACING, it is blatant and it is obvious. If he merely copied the poses there would be differences when overlapping and as we can see through the examples, the are almost identical. The fact that he is making money from tracing is the issue.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Asonn said:

It doesn't matter if you get it or not, that is just how the law works. if you take a char and only modify the angle of it and color it it still means you used someone else art work and if you don't give him credits/ not got his permission you're are in the wrong. that how things works.... I still agree it's petty and it's just a part he did use not the whole outlining + his art looks mostly better than the original... but does that change the fact it's illegal nope it does not.  

 
 

First that not why I ask the question.   Modified just the angle and color is different. That takes not effort or creativity at all.  Nor do I get how is it any more different than him getting the OK or NO. He still tracing.   Again the question was ask why is it wrong not why is it illegal.

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It's WRONG BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL! WHAT PART IS IT THAT YOU DON'T GET!? 

AND IF HE GETS THE OK FROM THE ORIGINAL ART WORK IT MEANS THAT THE ARTIST GIVES HIM THE PERMISSION TO DO IT WHICH MAKES IT LEGAL!

4 minutes ago, Nekolover said:

Modified just the angle and color is different. That takes not effort or creativity at all.

that is what he mostly did! here you just answered the question yourself why it's wrong! 

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1 minute ago, Asonn said:

It's WRONG BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL! WHAT PART IS IT THAT YOU DON'T GET!? 

AND IF HE GETS THE OK FROM THE ORIGINAL ART WORK IT MEANS THAT THE ARTIST GIVES HIM THE PERMISSION TO DO IT WHICH MAKES IT LEGAL!

that is what he mostly did! here you just answered the question yourself why it's wrong! 

Perhaps he is asking the morality of it and not the legality?

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Just now, iamnoob said:

Perhaps he is asking the morality of it and not the legality?

Well even if @Zakamutt hates this argument of mine(get tagged scrub), legality and morality are very closely related whether we want it to be or not. Therefore debating legality does have its place in the matter.

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9 minutes ago, iamnoob said:

Nekolover is English your first language? It's getting slightly difficult to understand your posts. Also no need to get so defensive, you started this topic and we are curious and want discussion. That's a main point of forums.

 

Back to the topic, perhaps we have different degrees in which we regard "copying".

If he were simply copying the poses, I would personally not have a problem with it. Like you said, the pose does not and should not belong to anyone, it's like the FineBros trying to copyright the word REACT.

My problem comes from the TRACING, it is blatant and it is obvious. If he merely copied the poses there would be differences when overlapping and as we can see through the examples, the are almost identical.

 

 

 
 

No is not but that no the reason why. There is another reason why. Short answer my grammar is utter shit in both my languages. Long answer I cannot do anything about it and is shameful for me to talk about it.  I still not see why tracing is bad. His art style and designs are different.    

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1 minute ago, iamnoob said:

Perhaps he is asking the morality of it and not the legality?

stealing / using art that other ppl make is illegal and boy oh boy if that is not morality wrong I don't know what is.

it's stealing other ppl credits for making it. 

 

but I'm done feeding the troll Nekolover and if you're not a troll.... sigh 

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Legality only has its place in discussing potential consequences due to it being illegal, but then you're really arguing based on those results, not because it's legal or not. Laws may often have their origin in moral judgements, but they live a life of their own and whether something is legal or not should not reflect upon its morality.

Also hi neko, you did good. Could use a bit more being out there though like Okami did, would be more entertaining than just unrelenting fury at everything w

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3 minutes ago, Asonn said:

It's WRONG BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL! WHAT PART IS IT THAT YOU DON'T GET!? 

AND IF HE GETS THE OK FROM THE ORIGINAL ART WORK IT MEANS THAT THE ARTIST GIVES HIM THE PERMISSION TO DO IT WHICH MAKES IT LEGAL!

that is what he mostly did! here you just answered the question yourself why it's wrong! 

 

OK could you not act like 5 year old who was ask why something is wrong?  I did not ask why is illegal but why is wrong.  Getting the OK or No is still the same thing.  He did more than that.  What I say is way different.  

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