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sanahtlig

Baldry Sky 18+ version poll on Sekai Project forums

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I don't think I jumped to conclusions though, and I don't think anything he has said contradicts the facts of my message.  I gave Sekai Project a day or two after the convention to make a statement, then two days after my forum poll creation to respond before I proceeded to publicize. 

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6 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

I don't think I jumped to conclusions though, and I don't think anything he has said contradicts the facts of my message.  I gave Sekai Project a day or two after the convention to make a statement, then two days after my forum poll creation to respond before I proceeded to publicize. 

Few people could calmly make a detailed statement, or express their reasons clearly and without any "threat". Hysteria is the main reaction.

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15 minutes ago, Decay said:

I'm pretty sure he was more responding to the horde of people actually jumping down his throat over Baldr Sky than you specifically.

Hordes of people always jump down his throat. It's basically a sport these days, and should never be taken as a rational reaction to what's going on.

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After following dovac's twitter for a few days, I've definitely come to think of him as a more sensible person than I used to. During this whole ordeal he has always been clear the problem is usually on the developer's end, not on Sekai Project's end. I'm pretty sure he's more aware than anyone else how important an 18+ release is for fans, and I doubt he's just putting it in the burner.

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22 minutes ago, Dark_blade64 said:

For not having a 18+ version?

We dont even know that there wont be a R18 version. Once Dovac has more infos to share about it he will do so with the rest of the R18 stuff.

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16 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

During this whole ordeal he has always been clear the problem is usually on the developer's end, not on Sekai Project's end.

Because there is always only one side involved in a contract.

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15 minutes ago, Ningen said:

Because there is always only one side involved in a contract.

Sure, 2 parties are involved in a contract, but the devs are the ones that own the rights to the game and all of its content, so it's not unreasonable to think they're the ones making decisions like "no announcing 18+ content until we say it's ok". It's their game after all.

Saying Sekai Project decides to just shaft 18+ material is pretty ignorant imo. It doesn't make any sense for them to purposefully do that when it's such an important thing for most of the community.

I'm not saying I know all the facts, I obviously don't, and I'm ALSO not saying "hey we should push the blame somewhere else", what I am saying is that we should stop whining and direct our efforts into something productive instead of pure anger at either Sekai Project OR the developers.

Because dovac has already explictly told everybody they can't say anything at the time, you can conclude 2 things:

  • Dovac is more than aware fans want an 18+ version of the game
  • He is unable to let you in on any extra info but has promised to disclose it when an appropriate time comes

Hearing this, the conclusion I reached is that all I can do at the moment is wait, because I'm pretty sure Sekai Project is already doing what they can to negotiate an 18+ version of the game. And if they're not, the most I'll do is just say something "hey it'd be nice if we could have this" on their page, not raise my pitchfork and alienate any form of discussion.

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I think people are just afraid and pessimistic. Sekai Project doesnt really have a good reputation to long time/veteran VN players like us because of the corners they have been cutting to localize stuff. There is a much higher chance of 18+ content being ignored/left out because you know... $$$€€€¥¥¥

Also we are talking Baldr series here, a game many fans have been dying to have translated/localized since its release.

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2 hours ago, Crayten said:

We dont even know that there wont be a R18 version. Once Dovac has more infos to share about it he will do so with the rest of the R18 stuff.

I wasn't implying anything, matter as fact I was just asking if that was the reason for the people complaining in twitter about Baldr Sky.

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20 hours ago, Nosebleed said:

Sure, 2 parties are involved in a contract, but the devs are the ones that own the rights to the game and all of its content, so it's not unreasonable to think they're the ones making decisions like "no announcing 18+ content until we say it's ok". It's their game after all.

Saying Sekai Project decides to just shaft 18+ material is pretty ignorant imo. It doesn't make any sense for them to purposefully do that when it's such an important thing for most of the community.

I'm not saying I know all the facts, I obviously don't, and I'm ALSO not saying "hey we should push the blame somewhere else", what I am saying is that we should stop whining and direct our efforts into something productive instead of pure anger at either Sekai Project OR the developers.

Because dovac has already explictly told everybody they can't say anything at the time, you can conclude 2 things:

  • Dovac is more than aware fans want an 18+ version of the game
  • He is unable to let you in on any extra info but has promised to disclose it when an appropriate time comes

Hearing this, the conclusion I reached is that all I can do at the moment is wait, because I'm pretty sure Sekai Project is already doing what they can to negotiate an 18+ version of the game. And if they're not, the most I'll do is just say something "hey it'd be nice if we could have this" on their page, not raise my pitchfork and alienate any form of discussion.

You're right but that doesn't mean that fans shouldn't be vocal about it. I'm not talking about anger and blame but the expression of how much they want the 18+ contents. The more people who express this, the higher the chances of it being successful since in the end, the main driving force is money. The main reason why 18+ contents are even taken out is try to expand the customer base.

Regardless, I've been waiting for this game for too long to not get it just because 1-2% of the game was taken out. If it weren't for the fact that most people could just pirate the game (and most likely will), there would likely be a lot more people who would by the game either way. I hope that the reputation of this game will at least spawn an unofficial restoration patch.

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53 minutes ago, BobJones2 said:

The main reason why 18+ contents are even taken out is try to expand the customer base.

Except if you have 2 versions of a game at once (one that's 18+ and one that's all ages), you appeal to both types of consumers, so it makes little sense to strictly remove 18+ content to expand the playerbase, considering you're needlessly alienating part of the fanbase for that purpose. This argument is completely self defeating.

What likely happened is that Giga just does not want 18+ content outside of Japan at this pont in time (dovac himself said this). This is a market that's new for them and they're threading the waters carefully.
Remember the whole debacle with Sayori because Fakku published one of her doujinshi uncensored? Some Japanese content creators just don't want to put their adult content outside of Japan for a multitude of reasons (the Rapelay scandal really shaped the way the industry views the overseas adult market), and what we must do is let them know it's okay to release 18+ content by requesting it in a polite manner.
My closing thoughts on this are that Sekai Project is likely already pushing as hard as they can for an 18+ release, so all we can do is wait and let the developers know we really want it as well.

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10 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

Remember the whole debacle with Sayori because Fakku published one of her doujinshi uncensored?

Sayori incident was about that she didn't know that it will get released uncensored though iirc and wanted it down because of that. Not because she was 100% against it. People were just jumping to conclusions there.

Edit: Confirmed it. She wanted it down because she never knew it was going to get released on Fakku. She only got money for drawing it for the magazine and didn't know that the magazine would get released on Fakku later.

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On 7/7/2016 at 1:27 AM, Decay said:

There's a possibility that Giga will want this marketed towards mainstream gaming audiences as a semi-mainstream Japanese action game a la Odin Sphere (which I've actually seen Baldr Sky compared to a couple times). The existence of an official english-language version with pornographic content could sabotage efforts in marketing towards that audience, as practically no one in the traditional games media wants to cover games with that kind stuff, even set aside in an optional alternate version. Them just knowing that there's a version out there with porn is enough to set off alarm bells and to dismiss it as a porn game that should not be covered, lest they get ostracized as well. 

Of course, the problem is that this 18+ version already exists in Japan and they'll do enough research to realize this. I think the game is already screwed on that front and the most coverage you'll see for Baldr Sky in the gaming press is maybe a single unflattering post from Kotaku. Not to mention, it's pretty dated on the technical side of things, which adds to the barrier of entry. Giga and SP should probably give up hope of Sky gaining any kind of success even among the otaku gaming crowd. 

This is a really pessimistic post, but seeing how the media has treated eroge in the past, I just cannot imagine this will go any different. 

This is becoming less so though. Considering, as far as we know, this is for PC release only, I think a lot of PC focused sites are growing less sensitive about this sort of thing. I get most of my game news from PCGamer, and they've been covering VNs a little more. Not extensively, but they haven't shied away from them, including titles with adult versions. They ran an article on the Muv Luv kickstarter, they covered Huniepop several times, and they did an article explaining what VNs are, and mentioned a number of titles that have 18+ versions. Also, not everything Kotaku mentions about eroge is bad. 

 

Nonetheless, Sekai has said on Twitter that they haven't worked out all the details yet and got the OK to announce Baldr Sky just before the actual announcement. 

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Baldr Sky has long deserved a console (non-adult) release in Japan, but hasn't gotten one.

I suspect that either Giga doesn't need or care about more money, or for whatever reason decided it wasn't worthwhile to pursue the profits... Or maybe they felt the story shouldn't be censored.

I do think that the English language VN fanbase overestimates how much Japanese devs care about censorship or artistic freedom. Not everyone is Akamatsu Ken. Some people don't even care about the ero from an artistic perspective. (Others do, as Clock-Up proves.) However, I think it's very possible that Giga does care about censorship, in the case of Baldr Sky.

Sure, the focus of Baldr Sky is cyberpunk. But sex is more integrated with the plot than you'd expect. And sure, you can just censor the sex scenes themselves, even though some of the dialogue is key to character development, and you won't be in too bad shape. But that alone will definitely not be enough. Unless a Steam release of Baldr Sky flies completely under the radar, which isn't really possible, the character of Noi plus the presence of rape in the VN have a strong chance of resulting in massive controversy. Those are the two deal-breakers as far as SJWs are concerned, but just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to sexual plot devices in Baldr Sky.

Baldr Sky is an amazing story and deserves to be played by all kinds of people. But a Steam version that does anything less than gut various parts of the story could definitely result in heavy condemnation from SJWs toward Sekai Project and Giga. In fact, even if they heavily censor the sexual elements of the plot in the Steam version, the SJWs might still go after Baldr Sky if an uncensored version is also released. All they need to do is follow the script of the TV Tropes controversy and post some screenshots from the uncensored version.

Unless the people of Sekai Project can be characterized as fearless proponents of freedom of expression, I would actually assume they'll encourage Giga to not release an 18+ version, and to allow at least a couple parts of the plot to be cut. Meanwhile, even if Giga doesn't want to censor their product, they may defer to Sekai Project when it comes to knowing "what kind of content results in a RapeLay-level controversy".

So this situation with Baldr Sky is actually a rare case where I think it was a smart idea to start a poll to show support for the 18+ version. The best case scenario, in my opinion, is an 18+ release and a Steam release that has several parts of the plot cut out; I can't see a Steam release that only cuts the porn being possible. There's always going to be a risk of controversy with a Baldr Sky localization because of SJWs with tunnel vision and the inevitable popularity of the game, but I think it would be a travesty to only release a version that's as censored as necessary to not cause a shitstorm on Steam.

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49 minutes ago, MayoeruHitori said:

Sure, the focus of Baldr Sky is cyberpunk. But sex is more integrated with the plot than you'd expect. And sure, you can just censor the sex scenes themselves, even though some of the dialogue is key to character development, and you won't be in too bad shape. But that alone will definitely not be enough. Unless a Steam release of Baldr Sky flies completely under the radar, which isn't really possible, the character of Noi plus the presence of rape in the VN have a strong chance of resulting in massive controversy. Those are the two deal-breakers as far as SJWs are concerned, but just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to sexual plot devices in Baldr Sky.

Baldr Sky is an amazing story and deserves to be played by all kinds of people. But a Steam version that does anything less than gut various parts of the story could definitely result in heavy condemnation from SJWs toward Sekai Project and Giga. In fact, even if they heavily censor the sexual elements of the plot in the Steam version, the SJWs might still go after Baldr Sky if an uncensored version is also released. All they need to do is follow the script of the TV Tropes controversy and post some screenshots from the uncensored version.

I'm not sure what to think about this.  I want to say Sekai Project isn't concerned about controversy--that they simply want to sell the game on Steam and would be motivated to cut/change as little as possible--yet the Yohjo Simulator controversy shows that in fact they are sensitive to public opinion (I'm not sure how such content could be in violation of Steam rules).

In any case, I don't see any reason at this point to think that Sekai Project would be motivating a potential non-adult only release, rather than GIGA.  My intuition is that large and successful companies like GIGA tend to dictate the terms of a partnership, and Sekai Project (particularly dovac) don't strike me as particularly assertive.  I'd be very surprised if Sekai Project were calling the shots here.  That doesn't seem like them; I just never see them assuming responsibility for hard and controversial decisions.  They tend to dodge controversial issues and hope they fade into the background, rather than confront and deal with them.

If the English publishers were characters in an eroge, JAST would be the fat gaijin otaku who girls go to when they need someone to copy from or have a tech problem, MangaGamer would be the popular athlete, and Sekai Project would be the generic hetare protagonist who inexplicably attracts all the girls despite seemingly having no redeeming characteristics.  Or rather, his redeeming characteristic is that he's easy to manipulate and he'll do whatever they want.

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All I hear about this all-ages is "look how many more people you can sell the game to..." Yeah there might be more but definitely not "alot". The reason is the gameplay and just being "dated". 

Do you really think Baldr Sky's gameplay is gonna appeal to your current generation of gamers? One that rates graphics and crisp of a game higher more than its gameplay? Most of them will have typical reaction like "holy shit, this is dated af... " or "Omg the graphics are so shit and the sound is so screechy." We are just getting a localization of this game, not a remake or revision, so you are stuck with that 2009 fast paced yet retro look.

With games like Zone of the Enders, Hawken, Armored Core, and several Gundam games and even Super Robot Wars representing the mecha game genre, it's really hard for Baldr Sky to even compare to those absolute monster games when it comes to gameplay. No way you're gonna win new fanbase with gameplay alone, so you gotta win them with the other thing Baldr Sky has to offer, storyline.... and R18+ content. 

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19 minutes ago, CeruleanGamer said:

All I hear about this all-ages is "look how many more people you can sell the game to..." Yeah there might be more but definitely not "alot".

'A lot' is relative.

The point of All-age content is to get the game on the Steam platform, Steam being a platform which reaches far more gamers than any other. We all know the situation MG was in before their VNs were put on Steam, and we all know the extent of the increase in sales afterward. So yeah, all-ages sell more by virtue of being allowed on the most popular gaming platform on the planet.

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As for now, I'm still in neutral position in regard of H Content. But what I knew that at least maybe Sekai will need to crowfunding at Kickstarter/IGG Baldr Sky, considering this is had 2 games, and both of games were quite long according to VNDB here. And if we want to be more optimistic here, maybe we'll got both of Baldr Sky in less than one year here, just like Root Double.

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I'm not fond of taking out the H scenes but I sure wont buy anything that is re-worked like if a child is reading it, like grisaia all ages version where they even censored the jokes itself and reworked parts of the dialogues to tone down the level, nobody complains about that yet they do with IMHHW...go figure.. or maybe it's because they actually give you the alternative to buy the original one but you need to wait a lot more for it...
Either way that's a big NO from me. 

BTW is the poll closed?I can't vote (yes i'm registered)
EDIT: Your account has been activated but you are currently in the moderation queue to be added to the forum. <---now I see why.

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57 minutes ago, Deep Blue said:

I'm not fond of taking out the H scenes but I sure wont buy anything that is re-worked like if a child is reading it, like grisaia all ages version where they even censored the jokes itself and reworked parts of the dialogues to tone down the level, nobody complains about that yet they do with IMHHW...go figure.. or maybe it's because they actually give you the alternative to buy the original one but you need to wait a lot more for it...
Either way that's a big NO from me. 

IMHHW censored pointless things like kissing, and comments about breasts. The censoring in Grisaia was nowhere near that bad. 

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