Why are so people so "sensitive" when it comes to nudity, porn etc?

[Justin579]

Like why can't they at least show tits on tv? It IS part of the human body. And I wish they would allow them to publish h novels on steam. I mean come on, every guy starts looking at porn when they are what, 13? Probably lower with ipads, and phones and that nowadays.

 

Then we got stuff like South Korea arresting people for child porn for playing http://www.dlsite.com/maniax/work/=/product_id/RE162718.html which is preposterous. 

[Valmore]

American culture is different from Japanese. For some reason, our nation creators had no problem with slaughtering Native Americans, but were kinda squeamish about boobies. I figure eventually the tide will change, but it'll take time.

[Yuuko]

6 minutes ago, Justin579 said:

 

Then we got stuff like South Korea arresting people for child porn for playing http://www.dlsite.com/maniax/work/=/product_id/RE162718.html which is preposterous. 

Korea is weird when it comes to porn anyways.

[Nosebleed]

It's not "people" it's "certain people", everyone's different. The problem is that "nudity being evil" has been the status quo for a while, and it's much harder to fight against it than to change it. But I agree nudity by itself shouldn't be worthy of censorship, sadly it's seen as a perversion by many and will likely stay that way.

If humans still walked around naked maybe you'd have a case for yourself, but because we decided to invent clothes and cover ourselves up, eventually our naked bodies just became this stigmatized thing to be hidden by default.

Culture!

[ittaku]

Censorship has been around since the dawn of time as a way of controlling people. Our societies' fears of nudity and sex etc. are a long term hangover from Victorian days where it was the expression of that control  to portray sex and nudity as immoral, inciting church and other bullshit fear tactics. Personally I find all censorship nonsense, especially the imbalance that occurs in the west where it's okay to show people being violent, murdering, slaughtering, butchering etc. yet we cannot show people fucking... yet most of us will never in our lives do the former while most of us will have sex regularly as adults. Japan's censorship is uniquely fucked in a different way thanks to their interpretation of the obscenity laws created when the USA wrote their constitution post World War II. Go figure.

P.S. Be careful when asking why people are arrested as paedophiles in the west for playing loli games - that is bound to create a flamewar, get moderators' attention and eventually cause your thread to be locked. If something's illegal in some countries, it really does not matter what your opinion is, as it's still illegal by their current laws.

[john 'mr. customer' smith]

Because God told them that they should be

[Satsuki]

Oh great, one of these thread again...

[Valmore]

1 minute ago, Satsuki said:

Oh great, one of these thread again...

Don't you have a Silmarillion movie to shoot or something?

[Eai]

The subject is a true one. It's an actual thing and it should be able to be discussed in a free way. If people are unwilling to talk about this, it confirms the facts people shows insecurities toward this subject.

I have never understood why steam doesn't allow full eroge on their website whereas they have games like Sakura spirit, which are popular only because the people playing them problably don't know there are games with content 1 million time better erotically wise.

But despite all of this, Japan also have a problem, because what is exactly the point of censoring specific parts in H content and scenes when everyone pretty much knows what is hapenning? It's not like the mosaics they apply on games are making it less lewd and suitable for everyone. If it really wanted to have a purpose, then it would not be an half assed measure like that, and everthing would be hidden. But here you just hide it enough to bother people and not enough to not make the content "obscene". There are many obscure reasons about this, I don't know why they couldn't have come with light censors like the ones in manga for example.

 

1 hour ago, ittaku said:

Japan's censorship is uniquely fucked in a different way thanks to their interpretation of the obscenity laws created when the USA wrote their constitution post World War II. Go figure.

Ittaku nailed it. Japan didn't have censorship originally. It can be seen in works made into Meiji era and even later, like Shunga painting by artists like Hokusai. There's a famous one with an octopus which some people think is the first occurence of tentacles into a depiction of sex scenes. I heard that Japan laws were made by pressure of the western countries heavily influenced by Victorian morals and prudery at the time, who thought Japan was an uncivilised country because of all this sex imagery available. So the Japanese governement tried to ban it in order to make look themselves "respectable" into Westerner eyes. If the West had not this views about sex and America didn't have obscenity laws, then Japan wouldn't have any censorship today. Japanese people are as annoyed as people in the west probably are, but since it has become something longtime applied, through time, they have resigned against it and just see it like something which cannot be helped. But problem is that this censorship influence didn't disappear and can be shown on non h releases today. There are stories about console games censored in Japan like this: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/448424/japanese-gamers-outraged-at-western-sjw-censorship

It is sad. But if one day things like this become common, then Japanese once again will start to think the same way that they do about censorship of obscene content: 'it cannot be helped, it's better than nothing'. Because in it's essence it's exactly the same thing that happened for obscenity law: self censorship to not offend and please views of people outside Japan.

 

[Justin579]

29 minutes ago, Eai said:

The subject is a true one. It's an actual thing and it should be able to be discussed in a free way. If people are unwilling to talk about this, it confirms the facts people shows insecurities toward this subject.

I have never understood why steam doesn't allow full eroge on their website whereas they have games like Sakura spirit, which are popular only because the people playing them problably don't know there are games with content 1 million time better erotically wise.

But despite all of this, Japan also have a problem, because what is exactly the point of censoring specific parts in H content and scenes when everyone pretty much knows what is hapenning? It's not like the mosaics they apply on games are making it less lewd and suitable for everyone. If it really wanted to have a purpose, then it would not be an half assed measure like that, and everthing would be hidden. But here you just hide it enough to bother people and not enough to not make the content "obscene". There are many obscure reasons about this, I don't know why they couldn't have come with light censors like the ones in manga for example.

 

Japan didn't have censorship originally, like it can be seen in works made into meiji era and even later, like shunga painting by artists like Hokusai. There's a famous one with an octopus which some people think is the first occurence of tentacles into a depiction of sex scenes. I heard that Japan laws were made by pressure of the western countries heavily influenced by Victorian morals and prudery at the time, who thought Japan was an uncivilised country because of all this sex imagery available. So the Japanese governement tried to ban it in order to make look themselves "respectable" into Westerner eyes. If the West had not this views about sex and America didn't have obscenity laws, then Japan wouldn't have any censorship today. Japanese people are as annoyed as people in the west probably are, but since it has become something longtime applied, through time, they have resigned against it and just see it like something which cannot be helped. But problem is that this censorship influence didn't disappear and can be shown on non h releases today. There are stories about console games censored in Japan like this: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/448424/japanese-gamers-outraged-at-western-sjw-censorship

It is sad. But if one day things like this become common, then Japanese once again will start to think the same way that they do about censorship of obscene content: it cannot be helped, it's better than nothing.

 

is that why oceans was rated so long at gamespot?

the censors don't really bother me so much since they didn't really show any tits in the first place if they did then they would. they just usually cover up more skin which is stupid in the first place.

I think it is just the republican religious nuts that want this that hate porn and think it corrupts people etc.

[Kurisu-Chan]

2 hours ago, Valmore said:

American culture is different from Japanese. For some reason, our nation creators had no problem with slaughtering Native Americans, but were kinda squeamish about boobies. I figure eventually the tide will change, but it'll take time.

Nah, Japan is also very strict about sexuality, IRL they are extremely frigid and prudish...it's just that they have no limit for fictional creations, no or approx no limit. 

[Eai]

13 hours ago, Kurisu-Chan said:

Nah, Japan is also very strict about sexuality, IRL they are extremely frigid and prudish...it's just that they have no limit for fictional creations, no or approx no limit. 

Japanese can seem prudish about sex, but they are actually not, or were actually not. (At least lot less than western countries at the time). In Japan there's this thing about Public face and Private face concept (omote/ura).

Japan is still a nation who celebrates fertility and other things related to sex through festivals displaying giant erects penis and such. Because in Shinto/bhudism, originally sex was just seen as something completely part of life, pleasurable and which could be celebrated . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanamara_Matsuri

or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hōnen_Matsuri

These things don't exist in Western countries, and i think some people will get offended if it happened. Whereas in Japan it shocks nobody. Also in the past, i heard Japanese were even displaying shunga and erotic pictures sometimes in their own house, and also that they were used as luck charms by people going to war and such.

But since the introduction of 'western' standards' through Japan, it has introduced a contradiction with these former traditionnal values. But they can't supress these things because they were once integral part of their culture. There are also things like public baths which were once not separated by sex at all, these ones were encouraged to disappear to not shock the western sensibilities of the time, but even up to this day they still exists.

It's also probably the reason Japan is one of the only asian countries were porn is legal though censored, in other countries like China, Korea, Thailand ect, Porn is absolutely forbidden.

Problem with Japanese culture is that they have this 'it can't be helped' stance about things even when they are bothering them. For example many Japanese would like sex censorship to disappear, but they will not push their governement about it. A single politician will very unlikely repell the law because people will mock him and use this to decribilise him. They prefer to an exterior occurance happens then they can justify the decision of getting rid of it. If you look into japanese boards like 4ch, there's people who hope some vn and anime get licensed in foreign country rather than send complains to the governement about supressing the law. There are also people using the law at their advantage for distributing 'illegal' uncensored content (ura douga), of normally censored porn videos, this market is big in japan and is highly related to Yakuza protection and such. It's an extremely lucrative market which can earn millions to the people who do it. Like in this article in which they can make profits up to 130 million yen only with online dvd sales (approximatively 1,3 million dollars). http://www.japantoday.com/category/crime/view/illegal-mosaic-free-porn-business-busted

I hope one day Japanese will repell this law. Unfortunately i think it's unlikely because i don't think the people concerned will want to publicly advocate against it.

For South korea case in the OP, it might be related to the fact porn in Korea is illegal.

[Erogamer]

I have no issue with nudity, but I don't think it is something for children to see. As long as their is an age gate and adult rating placed on the product then their should be no issue. After that it is up to the parents. All the censoring pushes these days comes from the SJWs and the UN and EU are big players in that.

 

[Narcosis]

INB4 the lock.

[Eai]

If these topics appear there time to time, it's because there's actual concerns related to it. It should be permitted to be talked about freely and if you lock the topic whereas there's nothing wrong in it, then it confirm the fact that a lot of people are very sensitive or insecure about the subject.

I have already seen that this thing was real because while reading posts here and in another places, i often see people like translators who says they want to translate some games, but that when they display a lot of H scenes, they dislike it and suddenly it becames a no go. I have seen people say that about the translation of vn like Majikoi S and such. Majikoi scenes might not be the best in vn, but they are still an integral part of the game. So the op point is pretty much valid and it can be seen even in Vn communities

[Zakamutt]

1 minute ago, Eai said:

I have already seen that this thing was real because while reading post here and in another places, i often see people like translators who says they want to translate some games, but that when they display a lot of H scenes, they dislike it and suddenly it becames a no go.

This isn't necessarily about disliking the presence of them when reading the vn; it simply can take a lot of effort to translate written Japanese porn.

[ittaku]

I absolutely love H scenes in my VNs and have translated many of them. However the H scenes are often the least rewarding part to translate for numerous reasons, not the least of which is that they mostly follow a standard pattern of sex and expression which is suited to the Japanese 2D world and nothing like reality. It gets tiring translating the same tropes and doing virtually the same scenes over and over and over. It's a bit like the unnatural sex positions in regular porn designed to display genitals to the camera.

[Nosebleed]

Translating H-scenes sucks. It's boring, plain and simple. The longer they are the more annoying they get to translate. It's the same patterns over and over with little to no variation. The sound effects are often random as well and have no real purpose to them (vaginas don't go gyuuu). Basically most translators don't want to do nukige because it's just not fun.

[Eai]

46 minutes ago, ittaku said:

at they mostly follow a standard pattern of sex and expression which is suited to the Japanese 2D world and nothing like reality

What do you mean? I think sex scenes expressions vary a lot in vn. If you talk about tropes like 'onichan kimochi ii' and such, then they don't happen all the time

Why translating H scene sucks? Because it can be simplier to translate it can be easier i think and can be fun.

Not related, but i think positions in porn are not unnatural but they use various camera angles to display the action: i think in vn you can do the same and try different approachs to translate the scenes.

 

[MysticalMagics]

Same deal with the Saw films, for example. It's all about preference; some hate it, others love it. My friends ask me why I'm so into moe and shit while, I, in turn, ask them how the fuck they can watch Saw without throwing up. People will always be different, and there are about 7 billion of em'. You can't ask the entirety of human society to adjust to one's own preferences.

[Justin579]

13 minutes ago, Eai said:

What do you mean? I think sex scenes expressions vary a lot in vn. If you talk about tropes like 'onichan kimochi ii' and such, then they don't happen all the time

Why translating H scene sucks? Because it can be simplier to translate it can be easier i think and can be fun.

Not related, but i think positions in porn are not unnatural but they use various camera angles to display the action: i think in vn you can do the same and try different approachs to translate the scenes.

 

It does vary? Isn't it usually just moaning and slurping noises? And saying "fuck me harder" and "fuck my pussy" and "ohhhhhhhhhhh yaaaaaa" when she cums "my pussy feels good?" etc?

[Narcosis]

30 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

Translating H-scenes sucks. It's boring, plain and simple. The longer they are the more annoying they get to translate. It's the same patterns over and over with little to no variation. The sound effects are often random as well and have no real purpose to them (vaginas don't go gyuuu). Basically most translators don't want to do nukige because it's just not fun.

Most vn's/eroge have straight porn, instead of erotica and/or well written, meaningful sex scenes that carry something more than a plain ticket to arousal; those scenes are rarely worth putting efort into to translate.

1 hour ago, ittaku said:

I absolutely love H scenes in my VNs and have translated many of them. However the H scenes are often the least rewarding part to translate for numerous reasons, not the least of which is that they mostly follow a standard pattern of sex and expression which is suited to the Japanese 2D world and nothing like reality. It gets tiring translating the same tropes and doing virtually the same scenes over and over and over. It's a bit like the unnatural sex positions in regular porn designed to display genitals to the camera.

13 minutes ago, Justin579 said:

It does vary? Isn't it usually just moaning and slurping noises? And saying "fuck me harder" and "fuck my pussy" and "ohhhhhhhhhhh yaaaaaa" when she cums "my pussy feels good?" etc?

You see, that's the issue People forget 18+ vn's are just porn; few rarely break the mold or at least try to play with trope subversion.

 

 

[Valmore]

2 hours ago, Eai said:

For South korea case in the OP, it might be related to the fact porn in Korea is illegal.

No joke there, either. In my research it was explicitly mentioned not to have any porn on you when entering Pyongyang.

[Eclipsed]

Because in the past a pettanko got embarassed and a dude with a micropenor was self conscious 

So they united against humanity to spread the stigma of nudity being a taboo

And emerged victorious during the Crusades of Nekkid, thus forcing all future generations of peeps to forever be binded by cloth

Frills ftw 

[Valmore]

16 minutes ago, Eclipsed said:

Because in the past a pettanko got embarassed and a dude with a micropenor was self conscious 

So they united against humanity to spread the stigma of nudity being a taboo

And emerged victorious during the Crusades of Nekkid, thus forcing all future generations of peeps to forever be binded by cloth

Frills ftw 

One man, the revered late Roy Raymond, didst try to subvert these by founding yon company, Secrets of Victoria, which didst provide lingerie to those of the female persuasion. Eventually leading to an annual television special with models wearing completely uncomfortable and ineffective underwear on stage for the enjoyment of male viewers.