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Japanese Prime Minister: Doujinshi Are Safe Under The TPP


Nosebleed

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The TPP is still the worst trade deal to ever come into existence and we can only hope it's burned to the ground, but at the very least Japan has given some reassurance to the doujin market with the following statement by prime minister Abe:

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"Doujinshi don't compete in the market with the original works and don't damage the original creators' profits, so they are shinkokuzai,"

"So that fan-made work like parodies don't wither away, we're limiting [non-shinkokuzai] to things that earn profits, wholly appropriate the original work, and inappropriately damage the rights holders' rights — they must fulfill all of these conditions."

For those who don't know about the situation yet, some of the TPP's vague clauses could mean doujin artists can be sued without the copyright holder's intervention, which would mean serious harm to an entire industry. The doujin market is important as it is often where up and coming artists and authors start their careers, it's not just a place where fan made porn gets made, and I'm happy Abe, despite not being the greatest human being on Earth, acknowledges this.

Things could still change, of course, and Japan immediately held a meeting after these remarks to discuss copyright laws, mainly targeting anime hosting sites, but it seems that at least parodies can safely continue to exist for the time being.

Source: ANN

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I'm surprised Abe even addressed the matter - I guess they're in a tight position and can't afford to antagonize any potential taxable income.

Speaking of the TPP - it probably won't be too far off until we start hearing about "examples" being made of small fry that cross the wrong groups. Then again, they might keep it low-key to avoid creating martyrs~

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I can understand consumers of such content being up in arms over the threat to the doujin industry, but I believe suggesting it will threaten up and coming artists/writers is a bit of a stretch. There are many different avenues for up and comers to practice and spread their name, and they could still engage in fan work as long as it's not-for-profit. Take away the doujin industry and the ability for writers/artists to practice, spread their work, and make a name will still exist.

Case in point, the West doesn't have a doujin industry and alternatives still exist for amateur writers and artists. And it isn't rare for writers to begin their career in fanfiction. So while fans will obviously be relieved that this industry is protected, they're over-reaching when they suggest they're protecting beginner artists. I believe G R R Martin iterated a fair point of view when he said:

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“It's a lazy way to go when you're just taking my characters,” he said.

“I recognise that it's an act of love … I would rather they make up their own characters and their own stories and not just borrow my world.”

“These characters are real to me, I've been living with them since 1991,” he said.

“I know what they would do and what they can't do, and some fan writers take over them and make them do things to my mind that are wildly out of character.”

He urged aspiring writers take on the challenge of creating their own world.

“Tackle the big thing and you'll be a better writer at the end of it,” he said.

In other words, there's other ways to kickstart your career.

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Of course there's always an alternative, I don't think the industry going away would mean creative death, but it's undeniable it would have a massive impact in the way things are run right now because this system has existed for decades.

Comiket in particular would have so many losses if this was put into effect.

And at the very least it would mean current artists would all have to change their work model, and parodies would be heavily affected since they couldn't be for profit.

You can argue whether or not parodies have merit to them, of course, but I still don't believe they're so dispensable you have an excuse to butcher an entire industry that's belove and supported, not just by fans, but by creators as well.

In the US, and The West in general, parodies have this really negative stigma because authors are put on a pedestal like godly beings, a la typical romantic model, but I believe parodies have as much love put into them and shouldn't be neglected as trash.

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20 minutes ago, Palas said:

Which is literally no reason to destroy an existing and established one. It has grown to become an industry far more impressive than a lot of countries' "official" entertainment industry. 

If you threaten doujin industry, you could be not threatening up and coming artists, but you'll surely hinder this specific kind of up and coming artist, one that engages in this kind of culture and deals with their works differently - more flexibly.

I didn't say it was, what I said was 'stop using it as an excuse for why that industry must remain'. And the second statement is subjective, I have little fondness for doujin or internet culture. They tend to push boundaries, but tend to be technically limited. Fan works tend to be based around ideas, if you have a cool idea people will laud it, but the execution is usually left wanting. I don't wish them destroyed, but I don't believe they're all that impressive, tbh. (That's just a general thing, obviously there are exceptions.)

Your last statement, I don't see how limiting of the selling of fan works will be a detriment to participatory art or works. It'll still be around, it'll still flourish, whether the majority of artists move to a different area, or whether another type of artist will shine for a while well ... that's just how the world works *shrugs*

19 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

but it's undeniable it would have a massive impact in the way things are run right now because this system has existed for decades.

And at the very least it would mean current artists would all have to change their work model, and parodies would be heavily affected since they couldn't be for profit.

And? Stagnation is death, I don't see why 'things will change' is such a compelling reason for not touching stuff. 

I'm saying this as a writer, they'll still be around. It's the consumers which will feel the brunt more than anyone else, not the artists. 

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Doujins or not doujins, copyright law has become utterly retarded and needs to be burned to the ground and redone entirely - if only to take into account the immense structural changes the internet brought to cultural habits, in terms of creation or experience. TPP is the furthering of a neo-liberal agenda to a downright terrifying point and none of those who create or experience cultural items have any interest in it. Only transnational companies, producers, editors and shareholders do.

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The only good thing about the TPP are the exceptions, no surprise there. What Abe said has been the official position on the matter for some time now, but it's still nice to hear it affirmed like this.

Rooke: If parody works died, that would mean the death of things like Touhou fandom. I don't think your personal distastes make for a particularly compelling argument. Nor does your assumption that things would work out just fine without parody works, particularly in light of the fact that the West, which you're using for comparison, doesn't, for example, have anything even remotely approaching the Japanese H-Manga market.

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6 hours ago, Palas said:

It ain't subjective, it's a thing. Ask Henry Jenkins.

Oh I'm sure it's a 'thing', but whether it's an 'impressive' thing is very much up to the individual. Hence - subjective.

6 hours ago, Palas said:

If parodies and derivative work thrive, the universe expands more quickly, becomes richer and achieves unpredictable results - like a "fanon" if you want to call it that, spontaneous character development through the fans, quicker consumer response resulting in the expansion of a franchise's lifetime and quicker accomodation of new trends/political tendencies etc.

Parodies and derivative works won't disappear just because someone is no longer allowed to sell fan works. They'll still be around. Fanfiction.net is one big, fat pile of 'derivative works'.

6 hours ago, Palas said:

But he's a crazy guy, someone who'd make Sonic games as a hobby. How much earlier wouldn't have this happened if parodies and derivative work were sustainable? How many great Sonic games that escape from the boundaries of the official work wouldn't have been released? And why? Just so that people create new characters (as they DID with Freedom Planet), when there's a huge yet unexplored potential in the original universe?

Now you're right off into the land of hypotheticals.

3 hours ago, KuroganeHomura said:

Rooke: If parody works died, that would mean the death of things like Touhou fandom. 

Parody works wouldn't die through enforcement of some version of copyright.

3 hours ago, KuroganeHomura said:

I don't think your personal distastes make for a particularly compelling argument. 

My personal tastes and distastes were never a part of the argument.

3 hours ago, KuroganeHomura said:

Nor does your assumption that things would work out just fine without parody works, 

I didn't say such a thing.

3 hours ago, KuroganeHomura said:

particularly in light of the fact that the West, which you're using for comparison, doesn't, for example, have anything even remotely approaching the Japanese H-Manga market.

Oh? In what way?

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6 minutes ago, Rooke said:

Parodies and derivative works won't disappear just because someone is no longer allowed to sell fan works. They'll still be around. Fanfiction.net is one big, fat pile of 'derivative works'.

But it will kill most of the high quality fan works. 

If suddenly you can't get paid for the work you do it will 100% surely affect the amount and quality of the stuff.

But yeah they won't disappear but the quality will be lower and everyone loves that <3

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Oh, fanfiction is illegal, and so is fanart. Forgot about that.

Okay, parody works may die through the enforcement of some version of copyright, and through third party dobbing, but the idea it would be able to be enforced is fanciful. Not only is it a massive manpower issue but it would cause chaos with people who want to participate.

Anyway, that wasn’t my point. I’m not gonna argue that, that’s a really complicated issue and I haven’t researched it enough. I don’t think it would be possible. Anyway, all I was arguing is that beginner artists and writers won’t be left out to dry with enforcement of this whatever. And that while a lot of people are up in arms about the possibilities TPP may have brought, leave the ‘development and exposure’ of artists/writers out of it. I’m sick of people using that excuse as some sort of righteous shield in their crusade:

“We’re looking after the poor writers, that’s why we’re protesting.” Bullshit! I doubt any of you are actually thinking about the writers at all.

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People go to comiket to buy porn of their favorite animu characters. Making porn of the popular characters is the main selling point of the doujins the beginners make. People are not going to bother looking at your stuff if you are unknown artist that has original characters. Popular artists have risen to the top through this method and after people have acknowledged their skills, have gotten their own fan-base, can they start making original works because they know people are going to buy them just because you are the artist for it. It kinda sucks for beginners you know if they can't sell porn of animu characters and they are not for sure going to give printed books out for free. Comiket is also a social event for beginners to trade works and make contacts with more experienced artists. Most people won't bother even going to comiket if they can't get their animu porn from there or look at the beginners' work if they know there isn't their favorite characters.

I don't give a shit what happens as long as they don't hurt my artist friends and moe girls.

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15 minutes ago, Palas said:

1) Well, you can be stubborn all you want, it's economically very impressive and a part of how the creative chain works today.

2) Except they won't make money out of their work, which you're dismissing as unimportant for some reason. It's not just something people do out of love - it's a business, a fair one for indie developers.

3) And, what, is there something inherently wrong with using an already existing and established culture to promote your work? You think it isn't a legitimate avenue to start one's career for what reason exactly?

1) Well, countries' official industries are much more economically impressive, and you think these are worth less, so ...

2) They don’t make money out of their work anyway. Not the doujin manga industry. Most circles barely cover the cost of printing the actual publications, which is actually pretty expensive.

Also, if beginner artists and writers are just treating the doujin industry as a stepping stone, then making money shouldn’t be important. That’s not the big picture, end goal.

3) There is nothing ‘wrong’ with using existing culture to promote your work. The greatest example is the 50 Shades of Grey writer who’s work used to be a Twilight fanfic. However it’s not necessary. Take away the doujin industry and artists/writers will still get exposure, mindshare, and everything else they need. I’m currently buying self-published authors, a lot of whom give their first book away for free, and there’s some pretty successful people there.

But you seem to have misinterpreted my point. I never said there's anything wrong with it, I never said the doujin industry shouldn't exist, my main point is to tell people to stop using the welfare of beginner artists and writers as a compelling reason why the industry shouldn’t be shut down. You’re all not interested in this stuff, you’re only interested in the content, the fandom, and other stuff and so it’s disingenuous. And writers/artists will still be there, still making a living if the doujin industry goes haywire. The passage below is what I took issue with:

10 hours ago, Nosebleed said:

The doujin market is important as it is often where up and coming artists and authors start their careers, it's not just a place where fan made porn gets made,

Yeah, no. If you want to argue the merits of the doujin industry, don't throw out crap like this. Actually argue the merits of the doujin industry. Too many people and articles just say 'it's where beginner writers/artists take their first step, you can't take it away' as though they care about the welfare of such people. But it wouldn't matter, take it away and beginner artists/authors will get their exposure elsewhere.

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13 minutes ago, Palas said:

1) Eh, you'd think so, but then the standard music industry is no longer that impressive, now is it? Or the movies industry. They all change is my point, and this enforcing is quite reactionary and counterproductive.

2) Oh, yeah, the "work for free for me, but you'll get the exposure!" mentality. Just don't give me this one. You said yourself - it's an expensive thing to do. To prohibit a healthy production cycle and expect people to slash their wrists in order to keep it up the way it is now is uh, what do you call it?

3) They won't, not in the way doujin industry ensues. I'm very interested in what these people are interested, and it's a certain way to approach one's own work. How is being interested in a specific content not related to being interested to the ensured safety of its producer anyway? I like Touhou remixes and doujin non-ero manga and I don't want the people currently behind this stuff to... stop producing it. They might be bale to find other ways to promote themselves, but they might not want to - they might want this one, a specific one.

The industry is important for beginner artists who want to promote themselves and who are enrolled in this kind of culture. That's all. 

1)     … Touche, mon ami.

2)     It'll all go digital one day. Most circles lose money on printing and physical presences also cost money, a digital solution would be better. But yeah, supply and demand, creators are pretty much self-employed people, so they take the same sorts of risks as businesses do. So businesses offer a service, but if there's no demand then they go broke. Same with creators, unfortunately (unless you're a part of a massive team, like a AAA game developer or something) if there’s no demand then you’re gonna be working for pennies. Sad but true. It used to be much worse, it’s only in modern times that creative people can actually make a lot of money. It's not like a job where you get paid for your work hours (unless you actually get a job where you get paid for your hours.)

3)     Well, you can be interested in the welfare of the creator so they can keep producing content you’re interested in. But when they move away to produce content you’re not interested in, you can lose interest. Most people arguing this line just want more content and only care for the welfare of the artists as long as they keep producing content they like. Mainly because the internet is the internet. There’s alternatives out there, but they won’t be producing the content these fans enjoy so people tend to hype the situation up a little. It’s annoying, imo.

Eh. We’ll have to disagree on how important it is. The crux of my argument is my belief that the market will shift fluidly to an alternative, but I could be wrong there. Anyway I’m off to slave away for a non-appreciative boss (not Tay, though ahahaha) Excuse me :( 

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