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  • 1 year later...
57 minutes ago, Zander said:

hello? yes is this thing on? blows away dust

dear fuwa moderators. why are my own comments on my own blog being deleted or hidden or otherwise vaporised without notice? pls respond. i spent at least 18 minutes in gimp making that image. 18!

For stuff like this, PM a mod to get it sorted out. That's not really what this thread is for. 

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your request was rather enticing and I was on board until i saw

27 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

Bring lolis back. 

pls, musumaker is enough jajaja

 

that aside I would have contacted a mod if i was notified by one that anything was deleted, which I do not believe is an unreasonable request. it was not my intention to start any argumentation however. thank you for your time

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4 hours ago, Zander said:

your request was rather enticing and I was on board until i saw

pls, musumaker is enough jajaja

 

that aside I would have contacted a mod if i was notified by one that anything was deleted, which I do not believe is an unreasonable request. it was not my intention to start any argumentation however. thank you for your time

This is kind of an interesting one for me (and don't be afraid to start an argument if there's something that seriously bothers you. I can't promise changes will be made, but it's definitely worthwhile to listen to the community.) 

Hiding posts in particular is something we never gave warnings for, not that it usually happens on blogs in the first place. 

If someone makes a thread, should it be the duty of the mod team to message whoever made the thread that posts in it were hidden? I'd lean towards no, but a blog might be different because it feels like a much more personal thing. 

We do, after all, have self-moderation toggled on for blogs, but no one can delete or edit comments in a thread just because they made it. 

I dunno. Maybe it's worth thinking about. 

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2 hours ago, Kaguya said:

If someone makes a thread, should it be the duty of the mod team to message whoever made the thread that posts in it were hidden? I'd lean towards no, but a blog might be different because it feels like a much more personal thing. 

I mean it's good to notify not OP but the thread as a whole that posts are being hidden. The usual "hey guys stop it" message does the job. Otherwise people might even think it's some sort of bug. They need to know that posts are being hidden and not straight up vanishing.

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10 hours ago, Kiriririri said:

Yes it is

No.

I realize some people might be a little confused about what this thread is meant to do. To quote Down for those who haven't actually read the thread's first post:

Quote

IN GENERAL if you have complaints about the staff or if you want to appeal against a mod's action you should take it to a pm.

However a few things may need to be discussed publicly, so use this thread for that.

In addition, here is a snippet from the Forum Rules:

Quote

Don't post staff PMs in public, if you have any issue with how the staff carried something out, talk it out in private with a moderator instead.

In general, try to keep the above posts in mind for next time when deciding whether you should bump this thread or contact a moderator about the situation. (Most of the time you will be better off going for the latter.)

 

On topic, I personally like to let users know when I hide their content, however the specific case in question had a certain user trolling, and other people quoting/ replying to him then also had their content hidden. In these cases, it can be hard to let everyone know that they had their content hidden, especially when many people join in. Like Palas said though, in those situations a simple "stop it" message from a mod goes a long way. That is something we can look into doing more often, so people don't make the situation worse by posting again, thinking it was some kind of mistake/ bug.

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20 hours ago, Kaguya said:

This is kind of an interesting one for me (and don't be afraid to start an argument if there's something that seriously bothers you. I can't promise changes will be made, but it's definitely worthwhile to listen to the community.) 

Hiding posts in particular is something we never gave warnings for, not that it usually happens on blogs in the first place. 

If someone makes a thread, should it be the duty of the mod team to message whoever made the thread that posts in it were hidden? I'd lean towards no, but a blog might be different because it feels like a much more personal thing. 

We do, after all, have self-moderation toggled on for blogs, but no one can delete or edit comments in a thread just because they made it. 

I dunno. Maybe it's worth thinking about. 

Well, I just said I didn't want to start an argument because I didn't want to appear as part of the "mods are shit fuwanovel is ded" train. I'm okay with starting a discussion, of course, I just don't want to fling shit at anyone or accuse them of anything.

I'd agree that there wouldn't be a need to indicate the creator of a thread, but a blog is indeed a more personal thing, and I do invest a considerable amount of time and effort to produce a post [as well as my responses in the comments at times]. I do see why the posts were hidden, I don't mean to say that what they did was wrong or unfair or not in line with the rules or anything like that.

16 hours ago, Dergonu said:

 

In general, try to keep the above posts in mind for next time when deciding whether you should bump this thread or contact a moderator about the situation. (Most of the time you will be better off going for the latter.)

 

On topic, I personally like to let users know when I hide their content, however the specific case in question had a certain user trolling, and other people quoting/ replying to him then also had their content hidden. In these cases, it can be hard to let everyone know that they had their content hidden, especially when many people join in. Like Palas said though, in those situations a simple "stop it" message from a mod goes a long way. That is something we can look into doing more often, so people don't make the situation worse by posting again, thinking it was some kind of mistake/ bug.

My intent was not to complain about a mod's action. My intent was to ask the moderators "are blogs moderated the same as the regular forums? where did my posts go?" I didn't know if it was a mod, even. However, I realise I did not express my intent clearly in my initial post, probably because I was mildly confused, salty, and/or tired at the time. I apologise.

I disagree entirely that the user was trolling. I tried to present my reasoning as to why to you in a PM, but you did not respond, which makes me feel that a public discussion here is more optimal than a private one-on-one discussion or trying to speak to multiple moderators in different PMs.

To make it more clear, I have two interrogatives:

1) Are blogs subject to the exact same moderation as the forums?

2) Should there be notification (however brief) when an individual's own blog has action taken against it somehow?

 

I ask mostly because I am trying, regardless of my ultimate success, to stimulate discussion about potentially controversial topics in the future, and the forum rules do not really mention blogs as far as I can tell besides: "Blogs are meant to be personal and we try to respect everyone's rights to write about the things they like".  This is open to interpretation, so I would like a bit of clarification, in order to potentially save time and effort by cancelling future plans if they will be removed or hidden or what have you.

 

Thank you again for your time, I appreciate the responses.

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32 minutes ago, Zander said:

I disagree entirely that the user was trolling. I tried to present my reasoning as to why to you in a PM, but you did not respond, which makes me feel that a public discussion here is more optimal than a private one-on-one discussion or trying to speak to multiple moderators in different PMs.

To make it more clear, I have two interrogatives:

1) Are blogs subject to the exact same moderation as the forums?

2) Should there be notification (however brief) when an individual's own blog has action taken against it somehow?

Sorry about that, I'm on vacation at the moment, (up in the mountains with bad internet,) so I can only check Fuwa so much in a day. I read your second PM, but didn't have the time to respond. 

I think what you mentioned there and here is something worth discussing. (Whether or not moderation in blogs should be treated a little differently than the main site.) 

I think letting the blog's owner know when some content on their blog gets hidden/ moderated is reasonable. Though, while blogs are "separate" from the forum in one way, they are still displayed on the main page daily, and so we do have to moderate content that breaks the forum rules on blogs similarily to the rest of the forum, and this probably won't change unless the blogs get disconnected from the main site even further. (Which I doubt people want.) 

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I'm going to repost this here because a blog probably isn't the best place to hold this discussion.

A friend told me about an episode of perceived moderator abuse, where he got in an argument over a topical matter (not related to Fuwa rules) and moderators started removing his posts over what he perceived as simple disagreement.  This was one of those hot-button topics in the VN scene where there's supposedly a "right" answer (known to "true" fans, such as our dear moderators), and the position held by normies is "wrong".  This person is not the type to engage in incendiary rhetoric, and he's also important in the scene and could've been helpful to Fuwa.

Furthermore, this doesn't appear to be an isolated incident.  I'm hearing that multiple people with standing in the community and no reason to go around flinging mud and breaking rules have been complaining about Fuwa moderation.  Coincidentally, these incidents all seem to involve one particular moderator.

When I told him about this post, his response was "Hope they don't ban you over it".  When outsiders--and even users who post here for a while--genuinely think this, that's a problem.

These sorts of incidents would bother me as a matter of principle under any circumstances, but in this case it's not just a matter of principle.  Such practices actually risk doing lasting harm to the community here.  Many users are not going to stand and fight when confronted with (perceived) moderation abuses.  They'll just leave and bad-mouth Fuwa to all their friends, causing a Balkanization of the fanbase.  Fuwanovel was supposed to be a place where users from all parts of the community can come together to discuss in a non-toxic environment--not one where certain cliques and opinions are favored by moderation and others are actively excluded.

Zakamutt's blog post on moderation issues is also worth a read.

 

Edited by sanahtlig
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5 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

I'm going to repost this here because a blog probably isn't the best place to hold this discussion.

A friend told me about an episode of perceived moderator abuse, where he got in an argument over a topical matter (not related to Fuwa rules) and moderators started removing his posts over what he perceived as simple disagreement.  This was one of those hot-button topics in the VN scene where there's supposedly a "right" answer (known to "true" fans, such as our dear moderators), and the position held by normies is "wrong".  This person is not the type to engage in incendiary rhetoric, and he's also important in the scene and could've been helpful to Fuwa.

Furthermore, this doesn't appear to be an isolated incident.  I'm hearing that multiple people with standing in the community and no reason to go around flinging mud and breaking rules have been complaining about Fuwa moderation.  Coincidentally, these incidents all seem to involve one particular moderator.

When I told him about this post, his response was "Hope they don't ban you over it".  When outsiders--and even users who post here for a while--genuinely think this, that's a problem.

These sorts of incidents would bother me as a matter of principle under any circumstances, but in this case it's not just a matter of principle.  Such practices actually risk doing lasting harm to the community here.  Many users are not going to stand and fight when confronted with (perceived) moderation abuses.  They'll just leave and bad-mouth Fuwa to all their friends, causing a Balkanization of the fanbase.  Fuwanovel was supposed to be a place where users from all parts of the community can come together to discuss in a non-toxic environment--not one where certain cliques and opinions are favored by moderation and others are actively excluded.

Zakamutt's blog post on moderation issues is also worth a read.

 

This is certainly not good, but there is little for us to go on. Could you PM us the name of the user and the mod, so we can get to the bottom of this? I find it hard to believe that a mod on the current team would target a user out of spite/ because they disagreed with said users opinions. But, if this is true, it's certainly something we need to look into, to make sure it never repeats itself. 

Seeing as this appears to be second hand information from only the user's point of view, it's also possible it was perceived like an act of rogue moderation, when in reality there was more to it from the mod's point of view. (This ties into transparency with our moderation, which is something we're currently looking into doing something about.) 

If you could give us some more information, we'll look into this for you. Like it stands now, it's just accusations of a pretty serious moderation violation, without any way for us to provide context/ explain what actually happened. 

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I've reached out to the people involved and encouraged them to contact the moderator investigating this issue.  I encourage anyone else to report their complaints from unresolved moderation issues--abuse-related or not, publicly here or privately via PM--to assist the investigation.  As Dergonu points out, this is second-hand info that I can't verify myself due to the nature of moderation.  It could just be a problem of optics.  However, moderators can see "removed" posts so they'll be able to get to the bottom of this--as long as they have a thread title to investigate.

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