[Discussion] Everyone hates OELVNs?

[Danko]

18 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

It's useful to keep in mind that hardcore fans in communities like this don't represent the rule, but the exception.

Yes, this is very true. Note to OELVN developers:

Pleasing core VN audience and pleasing general PC gamer audience are very different things.

Tailoring the game for one of them will probably cause a "meh" from the other.

Guess which one of those has more people. Guess which one of those cares about your game more.

Decide who you want to impress (aka pick your target audience, business basics, duhh).

[Suzu Fanatic]

My number one issue is amature writing - be that in VNs from the East OR West.

 

That being said, a large portion of OELVNS feel like they were written with a half-assed approach, with a short-term and rushed goal they want to reach. Kind of like needing to write a 10-page essay and trying to cram as much info within the limit without going over. Vapid, shallow ideas/characters that are rarely explored, and a clear impression a writer is in a hurry to finish writing his/her story.

 

Another aspect is the copy-cat nature of OELVNS, many look at eastern VNs, and try to emulate their contents, but fail to understand the concepts behind what actually makes those VNs "work'. And so we instead end up with over-used tropes and a lack of cohesive depth - because the writer was simply borrowing pre-existing ideas, rather then thinking about why those ideas work with a reader. I'm personally fine with the standard tropes and cliches, if the execution is done well.

 

Also, the topic of length doesn't always mean a VN is bad (a few KEY titles are good that are short) but I generally can't be bothered to invest time into reading a OELVN that might have a length of 2- 6 hours, becuase it shows the amount of time the writer was willing/interested in the work. I'm old and out of touch, I used to read BOOKS as a kid/teen, books that used to span 600 - 1500 pages, with fullly fleshed out stories, that took at least a week to read. And I tend to gravitate to VNs of a similar calibur.

 

TLDR: I'll gladly read a OELVN that gives a first impression that the writer was actually engrossed in telling their story to the reader, rather then it being a chore for the writer to wrap up asap prior to a deadline. That and someone that has an editor they can consult.

 

EDIT: And an afterthought - I won't touch any story (be it east OR west) that seeks crowdfunding before the writer has even started writing. It can be indicitive of a writers level of dedication to the story, and a general sign of what motivates them to write at all. If it's to help pay for artist commissions (CGs, sprites, music, etc) then that's understandable - that's not exactly the kind of money people just have lying around usually - but trying to sell a story not even written is putting the cart before the horse imo, and seriously puts any backer at risk, as they could end up being sold snake oil.

[EdwardWongHPTIV]

20 hours ago, Diamon said:

18 hours ago, CeruleanGamer said:

What needs to stop is the school setting trope and all these garbage ass cliches that only works right in a Japanese VN but will never work in a western setting.

Example: No youre not supposed to go to love hotels or karaoke bars in a western setting VN. We dont do that shit over here....

Night clubs or going to a bar for drinks would be more "western appropriate" or actually going to your significant other's place instead of hotels or motels is more common here.

See? That shit isnt so hard to westernize... These OELVN developers just need to see the differences between our cultures and the Japanese if they want to "make it their own" and not look like copycat garbage VN.

Totally agree, and you've touched on something that could be a strength of OELVNs, variety of setting. When considering Japanese fiction as a whole I am admittedly worn out on the whole slice of life high school setting. What redeems such fiction for me is interesting characters and/or story. Let's face it, Japanese fiction tends to be monolithic when it comes to settings.

You know until recently I never thought too deeply about how the whole love hotel came to exist. It's easy to make assumptions. But I read somewhere recently, I forget where (which brings into question its veracity), that early Japanese apartments built after the war had really thin walls. Thus, to not rock the boat / be neighbourly they needed some place to do it and not be heard... Even though I've been reading and watching Japanese fiction for years I've never delved into the reason why. But this seems plausible or at least a facet of the truth.

14 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

All I expect from OELVNs is mature writing for adults, appealing anime-style or fantasy-style graphics, a high fantasy setting with swords and sorcery, engaging RPG combat, 1000-year-old goth lolis, and sex with said lolis--all voiced in Tolkien's elven language.  Is that too much to ask? 

So basically you want the Witcher 4 to have anime style graphics and really old creatures that can turn themselves into goth lolis be romanceable? Sounds legit.

13 hours ago, CeruleanGamer said:

Add George RR Martin plot twists and sudden deaths and I'm sold baby.

Certainly possible in, The Witcher 4: The Youkai Strike Back, just have the protag fight others over the right to be the next guardian deity of the land (aka the throne). Just spare me the flaccid members.

I'm totally serious! I'd buy that game! Ok, maybe I'm being a tiny bit sarcastic. If only the Witcher 3 modding tools were better, eh?

Nevermind such a game would stop being a VN altogether... I wonder if you could make the dialogs look enough like ADV?

Well, I tried to fix my multiquote blunder but I can't get it to save.  Ah well.

Edited March 3, 2016 by EdwardWongHPTIV

[sanahtlig]

I'm pretty sure love hotels are a thing because people want to hide their night life from their fellow roommates.  Many young adults live with their parents, and most of them probably don't have cars.  Love hotels are simply serving a desire for privacy in a culture where privacy commands a premium.

[EdwardWongHPTIV]

15 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

I'm pretty sure love hotels are a thing because people want to hide their night life from their fellow roommates.  Many young adults live with their parents, and most of them probably don't have cars.  Love hotels are simply serving a desire for privacy in a culture where privacy commands a premium.

Well, suppose we're kinda saying the same thing in the end. It's a matter of privacy/shame. I'm just not sure if premarital sex was the only target of love hotels from their outset. /shrug. Well it doesn't matter in the end. I was just curious and had never heard that bit of (possible) trivia. Come to think of it there are some manga I've read that have used how thin the walls in those old apartments are as a plot device of sorts...

[Sioxz]

I don't like any VN with only English VA as it sounds wrong in my ears to read a Vn with English text and not hearing the Japanese VA to correct the English translation of text. But I would read a oelvn if there was no VA and it's good.

[CeruleanGamer]

3 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

I'm pretty sure love hotels are a thing because people want to hide their night life from their fellow roommates.  Many young adults live with their parents, and most of them probably don't have cars.  Love hotels are simply serving a desire for privacy in a culture where privacy commands a premium.

Not in the US unless you plan to sleep with a prostitute so they dont rob your whole house while youre in euphoria (best game eva btw). In those cases, you go to motels for a safety measure, so they only get away with your wallet cash in case they rob you.

We 'muricans are shameless mtfkers. When we gotta do it, we gonna do it. We aint got no time to search for no damn love hotels. We are cheap as hell as we would rather spend that shit on multiple condoms and birth controls.  

[EdwardWongHPTIV]

1 hour ago, CeruleanGamer said:

Not in the US unless you plan to sleep with a prostitute so they dont rob your whole house while youre in euphoria (best game eva btw). In those cases, you go to motels for a safety measure, so they only get away with your wallet cash in case they rob you.

We 'muricans are shameless mtfkers. When we gotta do it, we gonna do it. We aint got no time to search for no damn love hotels. We are cheap as hell as we would rather spend that shit on multiple condoms and birth controls.  

Hell, son, when you gotta do it there's bathroom stalls, broom closets, your office desk, your *boss's* office desk (be sure to leave a calling card), alleyways, and parks just to name a few. It's fine. Just don't get caught.

Seriously though he was responding to my question/wondering about the origins of love hotels in Japan. Kinda got off topic in a manner of speaking.