japanese is so hard

[wraithseeker]

What's hard is remembering the billions of kanjis everywhere.

[Abyssal Monkey]

55 minutes ago, wraithseeker said:

What's hard is remembering the billions of kanjis everywhere.

The kanji, like everything else can be memorized by repetition.  Japanese is the language that makes no sense in that HOW in the 6 different ways is the kanji meant to be read.  It's not like any other language where sounds are constant per character. So in effect, with Japanese, per kanji, you aren't memorizing 3 pieces of information: what it looks like, how it's read, and what it means, but instead like 10 different ways to read the damn thing.

[Deep Blue]

to be fair even japanese people have problems remembering all the kanji (specially writing them) so for us that we barely use them aside from reading vns or watching some anime is really hard to memorize them

[Clephas]

... am I the only person here who didn't have any significant problems with anything other than memorizing kanji (it got easier once I memorized the radicals)?

[Abyssal Monkey]

4 minutes ago, Clephas said:

... am I the only person here who didn't have any significant problems with anything other than memorizing kanji (it got easier once I memorized the radicals)?

Memorizing the language is simply easy, I just haven't found any clear answer to the kun/on-yomi question I have of when to use which and why.  So instead I've just been memorizing vocab and the kanji meanings and assume I'll pick up on how to read the kanji from the vocab and actual reading. The language itself is fairly simple and uses semi standard conjugations and declensions which I learned how to use from Latin, so I doubt grammar if going to be any real issue. It's just that damn reading question is the only thing I don't have an answer for.

[Clephas]

28 minutes ago, Abyssal Monkey said:

Memorizing the language is simply easy, I just haven't found any clear answer to the kun/on-yomi question I have of when to use which and why.  So instead I've just been memorizing vocab and the kanji meanings and assume I'll pick up on how to read the kanji from the vocab and actual reading. The language itself is fairly simple and uses semi standard conjugations and declensions which I learned how to use from Latin, so I doubt grammar if going to be any real issue. It's just that damn reading question is the only thing I don't have an answer for.

I'm just fundamentally lazy, so until I found a shortcut, I didn't make much progress past my first four hundred or so...  Memorizing radicals and the 'basic' kanji makes learning the others a lot easier...  since most of the annoyingly complex ones are combinations of radicals and basic kanji. 

[kingdomcome]

This really worries me... I'm terrible at memorizing stuff. I will never learn!

[Bolverk]

Understanding and getting a feel of Japanese is the hardest early part. Afterwards it turns into loads of memorization and some grammar learning. Because you just add and add to your knowledge. Feels like any other common foreign language you might learn, Spanish, German etc.

It's similar to programming I suppose. Learning how the syntax and logic is used takes effort and practice. But afterwards you can easily learn how to use external libraries and modules without much effort. Because it works in the same framework as you've learned before. You just have to learn how to manipulate the library.

[Deep Blue]

9 minutes ago, kingdomcome said:

This really worries me... I'm terrible at memorizing stuff. I will never learn!

yes you will, if you really want to learn you will learn, it's not about memorizing because after a while you will just know what every syllabary mean without actually thinking about it or trying to remember it, is like when you write a word you dont actually "think" about it, it comes natural to your head. It takes a lot of time (to anyone not just you!) but it's possible just be persistent and study every day, there are no tricks you just need to study study and study a bit more xD

[kingdomcome]

5 minutes ago, Deep Blue said:

yes you will, if you really want to learn you will learn, it's not about memorizing because after a while you will just know what every syllabary mean without actually thinking about it or trying to remember it, is like when you write a word you dont actually "think" about it, it comes natural to your head. It takes a lot of time (to anyone not just you!) but it's possible just be persistent and study every day, there are no tricks you just need to study study and study a bit more xD

Uhhh.. I see learning Japanese as a massive mountain which I dread to start climbing. Though thank you for that encouragement, it just worries me how long it will take to get to that point.

Any recommend language class to help with learning?

[Deep Blue]

24 minutes ago, kingdomcome said:

Uhhh.. I see learning Japanese as a massive mountain which I dread to start climbing. Though thank you for that encouragement, it just worries me how long it will take to get to that point.

Any recommend language class to help with learning?

I thought the same when I started and it was really hard for me too specially the first 3 months or so but once you pick up the pace and you break that "starting curve" it gets easier. The staring curve is what bolverk described as "understanding and feeling the japanese language" that's is something that took me a lot but once you pass that it will get easier to learn.

I used http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar for the grammar, there are tons of webs out there but I think that one was the best explaining everything, for vocabulary i still use memrise from time to time and anki 

if you need any help finding materials or you don't understand something pm

[Rainey]

The more you see japanese words, the more natural it'll become. You won't even have to think to recognize the kana or kanji. It's like the ABCs. It just takes time and lots of exposure to the language. I remember when I first started learning it in high school, it took me a couple of weeks to not have trouble telling the kana apart (things like め and ぬ).  Over the years, it'll become like second nature and you'll be able to read japanese as fast as your native language. By the end of your learning, it's mostly just vocab you'll be working on once you get down the grammar. But first, most important thing, is that you keep at it. If you stop now because you feel it's too hard, you'll never get anywhere.

[gill008]

13 hours ago, Zalor said:

Nothing will compare to my High school Chinese classes in terms of difficulty. How intense was it? Within the first month she made each student sign a contract telling us that she would no longer use any English in the class, and that any English she heard us speaking would result in a 1 point deduction from our overall grade. Meaning after the first month, the class became 100% immersive. She explained all new grammar, vocab, etc in Chinese. She would tell us when assignments were due, quickly in Chinese. On top of that, a typical homework assignment was writing a page length of stuff in Chinese each day. This bitch was crazy. Hell, I think this class was probably harder than most College level Chinese classes. Needless to say, my Japanese classes are very reasonable compared to my one other language learning experience. 

Wow, she must be from China,right? Typical chinese style of teaching, very intense. Did you learn Chinese faster because of her?  I think learning Chinese first will help you understand Japanese faster, especially those Kanjis, which have similar meaning in Chinese.

[Kawasumi]

On 2/27/2016 at 9:46 PM, Silvz said:

I had my first class ever today and I already hate hiragana. I only can identify three of them, and I still have to learn the other stuff

How do u people learn this

oh lord, just wait till you get too know your new best friend called シツ　and ロ口  

[Silvz]

I wish I could Like your guys posts, because everything you posted here is helping me a lot. Thank you fuwans <3

That drawings chart is actually very useful, although some images don't make sense at all

[Zenophilious]

9 hours ago, Kawasumi said:

oh lord, just wait till you get too know your new best friend called シツ　and ロ口  

口 口 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ロ ロ ¯\_(シ)_/¯ 口 口

[Silvz]

This is my locker, and the first things I've started practicing. The vowels, "K' and "G"

Is it just me or my "Ko" and "Go" are pretty bad?

[Deep Blue]

They look fine to me.

is really hard to confuse the kanji meaning because they are always in context, I mean yeah there are several that look alike, for example  士土 but when the hell will you use the samurai kanji and confuse it with soil/ground? "ほらほら! 土に花は咲き誇ってを見る. きれいね " hey hey, look look at that full blossom flower in the samurai. Pretty isnt it? (?)  (yeah is probably wrong xD but you get my point)

now katakana is actually a bit harder because they are used most of the time for borrowed words(english words) or just names, so yeah is easy to confuse ンソ シツ etc  (I still confuse them from time to time xD 

[spademan]

took me a while to finnaly finish hira/kana and kanji is a true struggle right now, especially knowing i probably got a year or two before i can truly comprehend  dies irae, let alone  my vn dream goal of muramasa

[Abyssal Monkey]

5 hours ago, Silvz said:

This is my locker, and the first things I've started practicing. The vowels, "K' and "G"

Is it just me or my "Ko" and "Go" are pretty bad?

It shouldn't have to be said, but the inflector on the kana literally just corrupts the sound, so memorizing t+d, k+g, h/f+b+p, and s+z separately is somewhat silly.  I've met people who tried to memorize them separately and facepalmed. There is no point in memorizing 100 pieces of information compared to ~60.

[Deep Blue]

2 hours ago, Abyssal Monkey said:

It shouldn't have to be said, but the inflector on the kana literally just corrupts the sound, so memorizing t+d, k+g, h/f+b+p, and s+z separately is somewhat silly.  I've met people who tried to memorize them separately and facepalmed. There is no point in memorizing 100 pieces of information compared to ~60.

With K and G he probably means the row(like he did in the picture), like K = (a)か(i)き(u)く(e)け(o)こ and G=がぎぐげご the same, it's not silly if he actually learns from it and that's a valid method of learning. Even if he wants he cannot learn just a K or t+d etc because it doesnt exist the only syllable without a vowel is the n

now if you mean why study ただ if you know that adding the ten ten (dakuten) again it's a method of study that a lot of people use because is not easy to remember when you start that ta becomes da by adding the "apostrophes" the same with the rest.

[Silvz]

I don't get what you said either, Monkey. I'm trying to learn K and G at the same time since they are similar, so just by remembering that the tenten + K equals G is easier than having to memorize K and G separately.

[Abyssal Monkey]

8 hours ago, Deep Blue said:

With K and G he probably means the row(like he did in the picture), like K = (a)か(i)き(u)く(e)け(o)こ and G=がぎぐげご the same, it's not silly if he actually learns from it and that's a valid method of learning. Even if he wants he cannot learn just a K or t+d etc because it doesnt exist the only syllable without a vowel is the n

now if you mean why study ただ if you know that adding the ten ten (dakuten) again it's a method of study that a lot of people use because is not easy to remember when you start that ta becomes da by adding the "apostrophes" the same with the rest.

Yeah, this.  I've met people who couldn't understand the concept of the dakuten is literally just changing the way you voice things.  Any simple observation in how you move your tongue in your mouth (from english at least, it's near identical) when pronouncing them immediately gives away why they are laid out like that.

[Deep Blue]

9 hours ago, Abyssal Monkey said:

Yeah, this.  I've met people who couldn't understand the concept of the dakuten is literally just changing the way you voice things.  Any simple observation in how you move your tongue in your mouth (from english at least, it's near identical) when pronouncing them immediately gives away why they are laid out like that.

for spanish speakers learning japanese is much easier because they have the advantage  of the pronunciation which is the same as in spanish. I see a lot of english speakers struggling really bad with this, even experimented guys that know Japanese pronouncing wrong the words (just like spanish speaker struggles with the pronunciation of english words because the vowels have different sounds)

That's why some people have problems with the concept of the dakuten (even if it looks really simple well when you start learning the language for some people is not and that's fine) and if it is hard pronouncing it it's hard also hard remembering it. 

[Amon]

Dunno.. First weeks of learning Japanese were amazing. I was sucking up so many information, my brain felt like exploding, but it was still awesome. Come back complaining when you hit 10.000 vocabs and reviewing all that stuff becomes a chore