Decay Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 UPDATE: Here's a link to a compiled list of criticisms levied by MangaGamer translator Black Dragon Hunt, with commentary. JAST says they will try to fix all of the problems before release. So, today JAST released the Flowers demo on Steam and announced a tentative release date of March 20th. Great! I've been looking forward to this one for a while, so let's see how it is! Spoiler Okay, so there are a lot of grammatical errors. A LOT of them. But a proofreading pass can help fix things up, right? Well... the whole thing reads really awkwardly. I would seriously doubt it if the translator was a native english speaker. It reads like a newbie fan TL instead of a proper official translation. Not even the most awkward of Sekai Project scripts read this poorly. It's not just poorly written, it's also inaccurately translated. Here's a boatload of chronicled mistranslations. Not only that, but the game has some technical issues. One that I kept running into was that any time I changed any option in the config menu, the music got all stuttery and I'd have to quit and reload the game. Sometimes interface buttons just randomly wouldn't work and had to be clicked multiple times. This game runs on the same engine as Kara no Shoujo 2, and MangaGamer had to port that to Unity so it would work properly, JAST did no such thing with this release, hence the issues. Also there are minor aesthetic issues, such how large and spaced out the text is, causing text to overflow into multiple boxes. Really, this whole release is a giant mess from head to toe. Every facet of it sucks. It's really disappointing since I was looking forward to it, but I'm also disappointed because I felt like JAST has been doing well recently on the translation quality front. I expected better from them, and instead we get... this. Flowers has suddenly turned into a huge bummer. How much do you think will get fixed in the next three and a half weeks? Fred the Barber and LiquidShu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, Decay said: One that I kept running into was that any time I changed any option in the config menu, the music got all stuttery and I'd have to quit and reload the game. Sometimes interface buttons just randomly wouldn't work and had to be clicked multiple times. Yes, IG engine do not work properly in english windows, idk why. Actually I saw in Jast progress log this: Quote Flowers - http://flowersgame.comDec 3rd - Translation done, editing. Preparing for port. Website updated +Characters +Voice samples So I wonder what they were "porting". 11 minutes ago, Decay said: How much do you think will get fixed in the next three and a half weeks? I hope they will take their time to polish the game. Also if they will somehow collaborate with Doddler, he will be able to do a port really fast - as you told this is KnS2 engine, so Doddler have all the needed script commands already encoded in his port, and he have a convertor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Well, it's not the final version yet but I took a quick look earlier on and promptly filed it under 'ignore'. You're right, it's not in good condition and hopefully that improves by release. Normally JAST is better than this, but then again JAST's been under pressure to release stuff quicker, so ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatround0 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I don't see anything wrong with the backlog dialogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyZombie Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Oh boy. It's like if I wrote a visual novel. I wouldn't expect much improvement, not unless they decide to delay it. Which considering Jast might actually happen. But probably not. kingdomcome 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 Just now, Scorp said: Yes, IG engine do not work properly in english windows, idk why. Actually I saw in Jast progress log this: So I wonder what they were "porting". Maybe they decided to scrap their plans for a port since they wanted to release it quicker? Or maybe Doddler was just wrong, since he was the one who said it wasn't a port. Either way, there are technical issues. Just now, Rooke said: Well, it's not the final version yet but I took a quick look at it and promptly filed it under 'ignore'. You're right, it's not in good condition and hopefully that improves by release. Normally JAST is better than this, but then again JAST's been under pressure to release stuff quicker, so ... It's not the final version, but a demo is meant to be a representative example of their product. This goes pretty far beyond that time you bitched about Princess Evangile (and MG DID fix that up, thankfully!), so I wonder how much they can really improve by the release date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Just now, Decay said: Maybe they decided to scrap their plans for a port since they wanted to release it quicker? Or maybe Doddler was just wrong, since he was the one who said it wasn't a port. Either way, there are technical issues. Believe me, he was right. I digged up IG engines a lot. This specific issue (music issues when going in config) is related ONLY to original IG engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Just now, Decay said: It's not the final version, but a demo is meant to be a representative example of their product. This goes pretty far beyond that time you bitched about Princess Evangile (and MG DID fix that up, thankfully!), so I wonder how much they can really improve by the release date. Their sentences were full of redundancies It's one of the first things you learn as a writer, to stop using words that are weak. It was annoying me, I felt like I was ploughing through treacle xD. Yeah, I'm sensitive to prose so like I said if it doesn't improve much I'll be skipping the game. Shame, but c'est la vie. 4 minutes ago, bigfatround0 said: I don't see anything wrong with the backlog dialogue. A couple of minor grammatical errors. Nothing REALLY major with the backlog. It isn't written nicely, but that's all about preference. bigfatround0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirginSmasher Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 It sucks to hear this. I was really looking forward to Flowers and then they release this disappointment as a demo. It kinda upsets me because I've been waiting for this for a while now. Hopefully they can fix the problems before the release date. DarkZedge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadeotic Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Hm, and here I was hoping of getting back to yuri with this. Oh well. I hope they clean their act by release, but we'll see I'll most likely play it either way, at some point, maybe. Possibly. VirginSmasher, DarkZedge, Dergonu and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I really doubt that IG gave them source code for their engine, so they most likely would not be able to fix the issue with that config music going mad (and this happens not only in config). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 24 minutes ago, bigfatround0 said: I don't see anything wrong with the backlog dialogue. The first one I posted just because I didn't like how one word overflowed into a new text box. That the kind of thing that should be avoided and the fact that it happens shows that they didn't put much care into this. Second one has some minor grammar errors and weird formatting. If those examples didn't please you, have another! bigfatround0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRaven Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 The last title I bought from Jast was the 'My Girlfriend is the President' fan disc, and that one had several passages that they even forgot to translate. And the things I heard about the quality of the Shiny Days release aren't particularly convincing either. Something like quality control or at least proof reading doesn't really seem to exist for Jast so I'm not particular confident that the state of Flowers will significantly improve for release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjueror Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 27 minutes ago, Rooke said: Their sentences were full of redundancies It's one of the first things you learn as a writer, to stop using words that are weak. It was annoying me, I felt like I was ploughing through treacle xD. I think most writers would learn grammar and making sense with their sentences first, and Flowers seems to be lacking on both accounts. xD Kawasumi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Ugh text overflow is the worst. My eyes hurt from reading that log. Hopefully this gets fixed soon. What a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulless Watcher Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Well shit, I was really looking forward to this title. Then again, it is probably for the best considering I'm as broke as Humpty Dumpy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 13 minutes ago, Conjueror said: I think most writers would learn grammar and making sense with their sentences first, and Flowers seems to be lacking on both fronts. xD I was frustrated that day xD. I let my frustrations out, probably unfairly at the Evangile staff Making sense is one of the most important things, grammar is actually not very important ... depending on which bit you talk about. Mostly because some grammar was brought into English because of a latin loving idiot person who tried to apply the rules of Latin to English. Things like 'don't end sentences with a preposition' are rules you can safely ignore. If you were writing in Latin, you most certainly wouldn't end sentences with a prep, but in English that doesn't apply. You can blame crazy Latin speaking fanboys for its existence though. Grammar is important only when it helps things make sense. ------------------------------------------- Don't "like" this post, anyone, because I'm going to be mean and unfair here. And I'm basing this off zero knowledge whatsoever so I'm probably wrong (I'm a writer, not a TL or something ) I just thought people should know a little bit when someone says 'it doesn't sound natural.' What are some ways which make things sound more natural. Quote "Ichigo grapples me as she tries to take the book. Her small hands touch my hips and belly, and I let out a small scream of embarrassment." Let's go with that sentence. It sounds mechanical. Wooden. What could you do to fix this if you were writing? 1 - Weak words, get rid of them. Every word which doesn't do anything that's in the script saps power away from that script. ‘Let out’ is unneeded. I would say it’s on the verge of filtering, but it’s definitely unnecessary. ‘I scream in embarrassment’ is all that’s needed. You could use ‘let out’ if it modifies the scream ‘I let out a short scream of embarrassment’ but eh, it’s still not nice. Mainly because if you 'scream' something, you're obviously 'letting something out'. Thus, it's redundant. ‘Touch’ is a weak word but could be appropriate. It’s weak because it doesn’t describe much. It conveys ‘contact’ but it doesn’t say what kind of contact. That could be the same in the Japanese, though. ‘Scream’ likewise is generic. It’s a loud sound, but that doesn’t necessarily narrow things down. 2 - The first sentence is pretty mechanical. Probably because it specifies stuff you don’t need to. ‘She tried to take the book,’ well it’s already specified that the protagonist has the book, you don’t need to specify that she’s trying to take the book. You can, depending on what tone you’re after, but frankly how it’s written sounds ... not good. ‘We wrestle for the book’ is more natural sounding, right? It conveys the same information (but I have no clue what the tone is like in the Japanese.) If you don't learn to imply, you won't write natural sounding stuff. Quote ‘We wrestle for the book, and I shriek a little in embarrassment when her small hands flutter across my hips and belly.’ Just applying these 2 simple rules is enough to make it sound more natural. 'Flutter' carries more meaning than 'touch', I also rearranged the adverb because you should always be careful of those. Of course I could have also butchered the tone and meaning of the line, but that's not the point of my post. I also don't like the phrase 'grapple me' because it makes the narrator sound like a fighting game fanboy ... *looks at a certain somebody*. But that's just my preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuee Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 37 minutes ago, Rooke said: Their sentences were full of redundancies It's one of the first things you learn as a writer, to stop using words that are weak. It was annoying me, I felt like I was ploughing through treacle xD. Funnily enough, they actually cut out a lot of detail in translating the lines, probably to try and avoid being too redundant. That approach is fine and all, but they overdid it a lot in here, which made a lot of the characters seem like they had no personality at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipsed Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 There's actually a your = you're mistake, fk yeah! Dergonu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dergonu Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, Eclipsed said: There's actually a your = you're mistake, fk yeah! Wow ... Damnit, I was really looking forward to this, as you might imagine. Fix your shit JAST! VirginSmasher and DarkZedge 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, Eclipsed said: There's actually a your = you're mistake, fk yeah! There are in fact several your = you're mistakes. It keeps happening, and it kills me a little every time. LiquidShu and Marcus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 @Rooke what's happening in most of these sentences is Japanese's lovely writing that enjoys employing repetitive and redundant verbs which, although in Japanese may carry slightly different nuances, in English they're simpy repetitive and unnecessary. The verb "let out" is VERY common in Japanese. It's used for anything ranging from saying a simple sentence to moaning during sex, but a lot of TLs just keep it as let out because it's easier than coming up with the appropriate English verb for that situation. What I gathered from these screenshots is that whoever translated this was WAY too literal because i can clearly see remainders of the typical Japanese sentence structure as well as several common Japanese expressions, resulting in that "unnatural" feel. LiquidShu, Fred the Barber and Darklord Rooke 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkZedge Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 What a shame...i was looking forward to this one too, even when i haven't been the biggest yuri follower..Flowers was one that i've been wanting to play (it's made by Innocent Grey which is a bonus for me) but still sucks to see the state it's in VirginSmasher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Could anyone upload demo somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 10 minutes ago, Scorp said: Could anyone upload demo somewhere? I think the demo is only up on steam so probably no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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