Denpasoft also disables steam keys

[Decay]

6 minutes ago, CeruleanGamer said:

Why dont you lead or show us how it's done? You seem to be white knighting these Steam morons all day today. They dont deserve any respect for bad mouthing visual novels by just calling it "tits and ass" game.

"All day today," I've made like two posts about this, what the hell? I just hate this kind of elitism, it's toxic behavior that only serves to further divide us from the rest of the community, and that doesn't help anyone.

[VirginSmasher]

Just now, Kiriririri said:

You hurt my feelings  

I wasn't talking about Moeges though. They have more than just this for CGs

Spoiler

 

[Yuuko]

7 minutes ago, VirginSmasher said:

I wasn't talking about Moeges though. They have more than just this for CGs

I'm a long time consumer of all the ecchi harem animus and mangos that show even less than Sakura games  

Edit 1: Oh forgot to mention that I read light novels for only cute girls too. I imagine how they look, it's really fun. See this is how deep I'm in this hole?

Edit 2: I'm not defending Sakura game fans because the games are mostly shit but all-ages VNs. Hell, out out of the 5 hours I have spent reading Nekopara 2, I petted the cat girls for 3 hours. It's all about imagination~

[VirginSmasher]

7 minutes ago, Kiriririri said:

I'm a long time consumer of all the ecchi harem animus and mangos that show even less than Sakura games  

I was in that phase during my early years as an anime watcher, back when I was 13 in fact, and I eventually grew out of it. I pulled myself out of that hole and you can too.

You can stick with the moeges and moe anime and manga though. That's kinda your thing 

[CeruleanGamer]

5 minutes ago, Decay said:

"All day today," I've made like two posts about this, what the hell? I just hate this kind of elitism, it's toxic behavior that only serves to further divide us from the rest of the community, and that doesn't help anyone.

It's also toxic to the developers and players themselves when you push for people to buy on Steam instead when better versions of the game are found elsewhere just because most people buy from Steam anyway. It's always better to buy from the localizing company or the developer because they get more cut.

In fact, if you want to help build a community, help developers make more money and direct people so they aren't feel cheated with their cut-content VNs, you should use your vast visual novel expertise to show them alternate places to buy VNs instead of Steam and inform them of what they are missing out because of LOL Steam all-ages version/censorship. 

[sanahtlig]

Steam users buy stuff.  They'll buy more stuff if they know it exists.  I get lots of clicks on my promotions for School Days and Shiny Days from them.  I imagine they're curious about eroge, but they don't know where to get them.  Or where to talk about them, for that matter.  So they make jokes on Steam--because what else can they do among condescending mainstream gamers who consider a love for gratuitous fanservice or sex to be a vice? 

[Decay]

2 minutes ago, CeruleanGamer said:

It's also toxic to the developers and players themselves when you push for people to buy on Steam instead when better versions of the game are found elsewhere just because most people buy from Steam anyway. It's always better to buy from the localizing company or the developer because they get more cut.

In fact, if you want to help build a community, help developers make more money and direct people so they aren't feel cheated with their cut-content VNs, you should use your vast visual novel expertise to show them alternate places to buy VNs instead of Steam and inform them of what they are missing out because of LOL Steam all-ages version/censorship. 

I agree in part. I shouldn't have said anything because it's not even really an idea yet, just a gestation of an idea, but I'd like to start an outreach program at some point where I and perhaps other members of fuwanovel help educate the steam users on VNs, and share with them resources like walkthroughs. Treating them like unwashed masses who don't deserve the time of day is the wrong approach.

[CeruleanGamer]

3 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

So they make jokes on Steam because what else can they do among condescending mainstream gamers who consider a love for gratuitous fanservice or sex to be a vice? 

This is the problem that Steam reviewers and dumb ass bloggers who don't know what they are talking about have created with visual novel games. They put stupid and funny ideas on people's heads and discourage playing VNs. Many players are too embarrassed to play VNs because of all the labels that come with them.

Play a VN with a cute loli girl, you're pedophile. Play VN with rape, you're rapist. Play VN with murders like Catagra or Kara no Shoujo, you're a murderer. You play VN with tentacles, you get called a "sick fuck". This is pure bias and ignorance and it can be difficult to convince closed minded people because of their culture/religion clashing with VN ideas. 

[OriginalRen]

I'm sorry, I just have no respect for Steam anymore after reading Down's article regarding the treatment of Spanish TL employees. While I can't prove if that story is true, it just makes me hate that system now. Will I use it? Yes. Do I support it at all? No.

All I'm really saying here is that I think putting VNs on Steam is just a waste of time. All you ever here about are the problems and assholes that ruin it for everyone. Every other country is always going to view otakuism (especially porn from otakuism) as being negative. Japan itself berates them and thinks people who embrace that sort of hobby are terrible people. So long as that exists, I just feel Steam is not going to be that uniting front. I'm not disagreeing with you @Decay or @sanahtlig, I just have very ill thoughts about people who assume Steam is the "save all" trump card for visual novel releases. Because of the rules, it will always restrict people from 18+ AAA titles, and that will always cause more salt than love. Does it matter in the end? Of course not, because fans will always fund cute girls having sex. Otome games will more than likely always get shafted on Kickstarters because of their nature; people (being about 80% men here) are afraid of gay content, regardless of how softcore it is. People want tits and ass. They want lesbian undertones. They want porn. It's a corrupt market and it's sad.

[sanahtlig]

33 minutes ago, Decay said:

I agree in part. I shouldn't have said anything because it's not even really an idea yet, just a gestation of an idea, but I'd like to start an outreach program at some point where I and perhaps other members of fuwanovel help educate the steam users on VNs, and share with them resources like walkthroughs. Treating them like unwashed masses who don't deserve the time of day is the wrong approach.

Introducing susceptible Steam gamers (the ones looking for ero patches for Steam games) to professional eroge was half the point of my Sakura Swim Club article.  The key here is latching onto to search terms they look for, getting their attention, and then exposing them to the types of games they might like.  I suppose you could go post on the Steam forums directly, but I didn't have much success with that.  Companies on Steam don't hesitate to lock or delete threads that clash with their interests whatsoever.

[VirginSmasher]

30 minutes ago, CeruleanGamer said:

This is the problem that Steam reviewers and dumb ass bloggers who don't know what they are talking about have created with visual novel games. They put stupid and funny ideas on people's heads and discourage playing VNs. Many players are too embarrassed to play VNs because of all the labels that come with them.

Play a VN with a cute loli girl, you're pedophile. Play VN with rape, you're rapist. Play VN with murders like Catagra or Kara no Shoujo, you're a murderer. You play VN with tentacles, you get called a "sick fuck". This is pure bias and ignorance and it can be difficult to convince closed minded people because of their culture/religion clashing with VN ideas. 

I'm open about my VN playing in high school of all places. I get called a pedophile, a freak, a sick fuck, and other nicknames, but I'm not embarrassed of my hobby. If people can't handle being called a pedophile or a rapist by some ignorant pricks, they can stay that way. Sure, it's mostly the opposite party's fault, but you should accept that you're gonna be called these things right from when you start playing VNs.

[FrozenRaven]

11 hours ago, Decay said:

You are literally no better than them. Conversely, I'd actually like to think of more ways for Fuwanovel to reach out to Steam and maybe get more people from there to visit the site.

If i hadn't known about fuwa before hand I might still be buying Vns from steam and pirating the adult versions. So I think reaching out to Steam is a great idea. Now some of the ways Fuwa could do this is to make a steam group and have it be active, friendly and welcoming to newcomers. Another thing Fuwa could do is to become a steam curator which can help inform casual VN players about what is good and what is bad and let them know that there is a better (adult) version out there. 

[Ironstorm]

Its against steam TOS for companies to post links to other sites in which games can be purchased. They can get away withit without steam noticing however steam users can report you especially those with anti eroge vibes. When steam catches you doing it they may take your steam page down without warning and then tell you after why and ask you to correct it as a heavy handed warning. Steam does have a leniency towards big companies though but not to any of the visual novel crowd/publishers. Though users posting links or informing people is ok and almost encouraged especially when someone asks how do I get this uncensored version. 

[Dark_blade64]

12 hours ago, CeruleanGamer said:

This is the problem that Steam reviewers and dumb ass bloggers who don't know what they are talking about have created with visual novel games. They put stupid and funny ideas on people's heads and discourage playing VNs. Many players are too embarrassed to play VNs because of all the labels that come with them.

Play a VN with a cute loli girl, you're pedophile. Play VN with rape, you're rapist. Play VN with murders like Catagra or Kara no Shoujo, you're a murderer. You play VN with tentacles, you get called a "sick fuck". This is pure bias and ignorance and it can be difficult to convince closed minded people because of their culture/religion clashing with VN ideas. 

Alright while I might use steam to buy all-ages version what the hell are you talking about? Just because the review system on steam is used mostly to do joke reviews or bashing games for hell no reason that doesn't mean everyone outright think visual novels are garbage. To start with the guys who build the stupid system are the owner of the site. Now is obviously many trolls or weirdos will abuse the system and label the games with tags they don't even describe the game correctly.

Personally I find visual novel style amazing and I'm a little bit surprised there is so much hate for the format. I mean it is like reading an interactive book with sounds, voices, music and pictures which I find it an amazing concept and reminds me of adventure games but with a different formula. And the reason visual novels are trashed is not because it has sexual content, the reason is that many people hate other people cultures and possibly many things originated from other countries. If the murica were the creators of the visual novel genre back then do you think they would trash it as much as they do now? Cmon you can literally notice many books from a long time ago and new ones aswell as movies has an inredibly more violence, sexual content or gore.

[kingdomcome]

23 hours ago, Nosebleed said:

Stolen/fake credit cards are used and by the time the payment processor figures out it was a fraudulent purchase, the culprit already has the Steam key.

So no one is at fault really, besides those stealing obviously..

 

Steam sales do help publishers I think, at least they make more $ which hopefully means more translated VN's. Though if they see that the best sellers are all about the fan services, well that can't be any good either..

[Darklord Rooke]

20 hours ago, OriginalRen said:

I'm sorry, I just have no respect for Steam anymore after reading Down's article regarding the treatment of Spanish TL employees. While I can't prove if that story is true, it just makes me hate that system now. Will I use it? Yes. Do I support it at all? No.

All I'm really saying here is that I think putting VNs on Steam is just a waste of time. All you ever here about are the problems and assholes that ruin it for everyone. Every other country is always going to view otakuism (especially porn from otakuism) as being negative. Japan itself berates them and thinks people who embrace that sort of hobby are terrible people. So long as that exists, I just feel Steam is not going to be that uniting front. I'm not disagreeing with you @Decay or @sanahtlig, I just have very ill thoughts about people who assume Steam is the "save all" trump card for visual novel releases. Because of the rules, it will always restrict people from 18+ AAA titles, and that will always cause more salt than love. Does it matter in the end? Of course not, because fans will always fund cute girls having sex. Otome games will more than likely always get shafted on Kickstarters because of their nature; people (being about 80% men here) are afraid of gay content, regardless of how softcore it is. People want tits and ass. They want lesbian undertones. They want porn. It's a corrupt market and it's sad.

Regarding Spanish TLs, I have no sympathy for guys who willingly get exploited then turn around and complain (and strike) because they got exploited. If you want to be that stupid, that's your problem. They weren't harmed in any way, and I hope they learned a valuable lesson.

Regarding Steam being a waste of time, the fact it provides many, many times more sales than localisers used to get pre-Steam means it most definitely isn't a waste of time. Even with the 'discouragement', even with the 'stupid assholes' (which Steam is well-known for and thus are usually ignored) pre-Steam titles were struggling to reach 2,000 copies and now they can easily break 5 figures. Because of this basic fact, because there wasn't enough people in the eroge community willing to actually buy the damn games, you will have to live with Steam because that community does buy games in large numbers.

21 hours ago, CeruleanGamer said:

I dont like being put in the same category as those Steam all-ages loving weeaboo pleebs who know nothing about a great visual novel and just writing reviews filled with dank memes to get funny/positive marks and comments.

Don't imply the Visual Novel community in the West know about great visual novels, at least not with a straight face. When you have quality games like Gahkthun, Cartagra, KnS, KnS2, all struggling to sell, and shit like 'Boob Wars' and the like selling mountains of copies then obviously it's not just the Steam crowd who don't know a great visual novel when they see one ...

[Down]

6 minutes ago, Rooke said:

Don't imply the Visual Novel community in the West know about great visual novels, at least not with a straight face. When you have quality games like Gahkthun, Cartagra, KnS, KnS2, all struggling to sell, and shit like 'Boob Wars' and the like selling mountains of copies then obviously it's not just the Steam crowd who don't know a great visual novel when they see one ...

Dubious example. Everything seems to suggest that there's a clear distinction between the nukige buying crowd and the "visual novel" buying crowd.

A better example would be, say, Princess Evangile, but then you'd have to demonstrate that a moege like that is intrinsically less good than IG games, Gahkthun etc...

[Decay]

10 minutes ago, Down said:

Dubious example. Everything seems to suggest that there's a clear distinction between the nukige buying crowd and the "visual novel" buying crowd.

A better example would be, say, Princess Evangile, but then you'd have to demonstrate that a moege like that is intrinsically less good than IG games, Gahkthun etc...

And that distinction doesn't exist on Steam? The people who bought Sakura Spirit are likely different than the ones who bought eden*.

[Down]

6 minutes ago, Decay said:

And that distinction doesn't exist on Steam? The people who bought Sakura Spirit are likely different than the ones who bought eden*.

Well yeah, it probably does exist on Steam too. In fact it's probably of a different nature altogether considering the difference of scale. 

It's already fairly risky to talk about "the visual novel community" as if it had any sort of canon, despite the fact that I think you can infer a few general differences between "nukige buyers" and "visual novel buyers", but when it comes to applying qualifiers to something like "the steam crowd" what you're talking about is far closer to a product of your imagination than anything grounded in the real world.

[Darklord Rooke]

21 minutes ago, Down said:

A better example would be, say, Princess Evangile, but then you'd have to demonstrate that a moege like that is intrinsically less good than IG games, Gahkthun etc...

Hmmm ... okay.

Moege are moe games, moe games are mostly about the ‘cutesy’ factor, being ‘cute’ is a form of ‘beauty’, ‘beauty’ as we all know is only skin deep, the thickness of skin is not very much at all which means it’s obviously shallow, when you dive into a shallow pool you are (in effect) giving yourself an uppercut, and so everyone who buys moege like Princess Evangile are (in effect) giving themselves an uppercut. And who wants to do that?

So obviously, and more importantly objectively, Gahkthun is better.

[Dark_blade64]

25 minutes ago, Down said:

Well yeah, it probably does exist on Steam too. In fact it's probably of a different nature altogether considering the difference of scale. 

It's already fairly risky to talk about "the visual novel community" as if it had any sort of canon, despite the fact that I think you can infer a few general differences between "nukige buyers" and "visual novel buyers", but when it comes to applying qualifiers to something like "the steam crowd" what you're talking about is far closer to a product of your imagination than anything grounded in the real world.

Want to remind I'm someone who dislike sakura games (unless someday they do something interesting which I'm very dubious. More likely a miracle that would be indeed.)

I like how people go all "my taste is superior than everyone else" and then complain about the retards hating them. It's basically the same thing as saying everyone is at fault because some stupid bunch did something wrong and punish everyone because of it.