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Niseno-Kami

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59 minutes ago, Niseno-Kami said:

I sure will ask! Thanks for the welcome :mare:

I don't really think so, as the definition of open minded is " willing to consider new ides; unprejudiced ", so people who are unwilling to consider new ideas; prejudiced would be close-minded. Strictly speaking, of course.

You don't like Gintama :michiru: T_T Everyone I know enjoys Gintama! Thanks for the welcome btw, see you soon ^^

Just food for though - Is there a single person on earth willing to consider all new ideas? And is there a single person who cannot consider anything new at all?

I find open-mindedness much like a scale. Everyone is open to different extent and on different subjects. Therefore, I find it awkward to identify someone as "open-minded" or "close-minded" without also specifying the subject which they're open or close to.

Well, don't mind my rambling. And yeah, Gintama really isn't my thing. Hope to see you around!

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Welcome to Fuwa~

6 hours ago, Niseno-Kami said:

My favorite anime are everything Shaft does (Like Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei or again Monogatari series), Yuru Yuri, Daily Lives of High School Boys, Gintama (especially filler episodes).

This is gold c:

6 hours ago, Niseno-Kami said:

My favorite anime are everything Shaft does (Like Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei or again Monogatari series), Yuru Yuri, Daily Lives of High School Boys, Gintama (especially filler episodes).

Booooo! Gochiusa ftw!!

 

Oh and, don't forget to stalk random people's profiles so that senpai might notice you~ :mare:

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8 hours ago, Niseno-Kami said:

I guess that makes sense. Like you said probably noone on this world is 100% open to new ideas. Though the definition is "to consider new ideas", so people who reject new ideas can also be open-minded as long as they consider the idea first. But then again, like you said a human being who is willing to consider all new ideas s/he sees is probably non-existent. I guess I should change it to "people who are politically, socially and spiritually open minded".  

If you'll let me keep my little rambling on for some more time, how about I try saying even that's a bit too vague to be meaningful? 

Are there people who'd be open-minded to ->any<- political, social or spiritual idea? Were I to tell these open-minded people that Hitler was the greatest person alive, or that all africans are no more than cattle, or that the voices in my head tell me I should kill all non-believers any serious thought?

If someone approached me with any of those ideas, I wouldn't even think about it, even if I pretended I did. After all, it's ridiculous, right? Clearly so. We all could come up with 1000000 reasons to say it's ridiculous, but even before giving them any thought, just listening to the idea loops me to the conclusion that "that's ridiculous". And so, while thinking about it, I'm not giving the ideas any chance of being valid, or seriously considering them- I'm just looking for reasons to explain why they're ridiculous, an idea that had been on my mind from the very start, before I even had any arguments to defend it. 

Those are all very extreme examples, but I'm certainly biased against a great many other things which will make it impossible for me to give them any serious thought. For example, whille I see democracy as a failing system, I'm unwilling to seriously consider any other governments. I can only think about it for a few minutes before coming to the conclusion that "that's ridiculous"- and I'm sure supporters of a monarchy or any other system would be able to refute my half-assed reasons that were born out of very short thinking pretty well.

I'm also unwilling to consider the thought that races are inherently different. All human beings are equal, right? Thus, if you were to tell me that africans are inferior, I wouldn't buy it. From the very start, I would think all sorts of things about you. You could try giving me studies or literature to argue for your point, but I wouldn't read any of that. I'd just call you racist, and be done with thinking about the idea. 

Same with what's happening to ISIS. I've never heard their viewpoint.. I've never read their holy texts. I've never talked to any muslim, much less extreme ones. But if someone told me that I should consider they may be right, I'd just think that person is crazy.

 

I'm unable to consider the vast majority of things that go against my pre-conceived notions of equality, morals, philosophy and whatnot. And I recon I don't even know most of the things I'm biased against. It just happens subconsciously. And that bias may be a good thing. No one should give thought to religious extremists or racists or plain crazy people, right?  Is it bad that I don't?

 

Again, feel free to ignore my rambling. Maybe I'm just crazy, or drawing bad parallels or something. I dunno. 

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2 hours ago, Niseno-Kami said:

Why are you calling yourself crazy, your arguments are pretty cool. :mare:

I would say what you have mentioned are what an open minded person would say. The reason is you have actually considered them. When a person comes up to you and says "Hitler is awesome!" you don't need to reconsider everything you have learned. That's not what being open-minded is. You find Hitler evil, as do I, and what makes us open-minded about that is we have reasons to do so. We have knowledge on that topic, on what his supporters have believed and we have derived to our own conclusion based on the knowledge we have from both sides. We know back in Nazi Germany some people thought Hitler was amazing, yet we still chose to reject his ideals and beliefs. However if we have done that just because our dad told us he is evil with no explanation, that would have been close minded. 

Same goes for ISIS. They are insane terrorists who somehow convinced themselves that they are fighting for something holy. When a person comes up to you and says "ISIS are real muslims everyone else should just die!" if you respond with "Go away." that again isn't being close-minded, because you have knowledge on what terrorism is. If you however said "Muslims are all crazy" without reading the holy text that would be close-minded.

You mentioned you are unable to consider things that go against your pre-conceived notions. Well again why would that make you close-minded? You have those notions because they were the ones that made sense for you, among others. 

Let me give an anecdote to be more clear. A few years ago I thought of homosexuality as a disease. I wasn't really mean to homosexuals but I didn't respect them. However, as I did some research on homosexuality and got to know more homosexual people I realized they aren't some type of flawed creatures who are a threat to humanity. They simply are humans who have different tastes than me. Now here comes the important part: After all this, if I chose to still consider them as flawed creatures, I would have been open-minded again, because the act of learning on something I disagree on is actually  being receptive to new ideas. In the end I would have considered their ideas, and choose to reject them after I considered everything they had to say.

Another example would be those freaks in US who said rape should be legal. Now I am pretty sure both you and I consider rape unacceptable. If someone from that group comes to us and say "Rape is awesome!" we would tell them to go away. Now will that make us close-minded? No, because we have listened to their arguments. We considered their arguments, and deemed them unacceptable.

As long as one is willing to consider anything, he will be open-minded. That's what I believe being open-minded is, not willing to accept new ideas but to consider them. Also definition of considering is basicly thinking about something carefully before making a choice, judgement etc.: just to make things more clear. 

Let me give just one more example. You mentioned you believe races aren't inherently different. Why do you think that? You think that because you also have knowledge on why people thought races are different and decided to not buy what they say. 

My english isn't perfect so there may be some parts that need clarification. 

I shall await your reply :miyako:

 

Are they? Weird. I'm pretty sure I usually suck at arguing. People do seem to generally agree with me even when I suck, though. I don't get it :komari: 

My point is mostly related to how much of that process is actually considering their ideas.

There's a very big difference in my mindset if I decide to learn some math, read philosophy on something I don't know about or talk to a holocaust denier, for example. 

In the first case (learning math), I'm not going to question anything I'm learning. Because math is math, and I'd be dealing with a set of rules. I won't question any formulas. They're there and they're right and that's it- the thought to disagree with that doesn't even cross my mind.

In the second case (reading philosophy), I'm considering completely new ideas (to me) that I don't have any knowledge or opinion on before reading. I might end up agreeing or disagreeing with them in the end, but I'll seriously think about everything I'm reading with an open mind.

The third case, however (talking to a holocaust denier) is very, very different than the first two. Because I already think everything that person will say is bs before we start talking. I'll probably also think they're scum or just plain crazy. Therefore, I find it impossible in me to consider their ideas seriously.

You mentioned that being open minded is related to "thinking about something carefully before making a choice" - In both the first and third case, I wouldn't do that at all. To me, the first is true before I know anything about it, and the third is wrong before I know anything about it too. 

You also mentioned that I have knowledge on why people thought races are different (and presumably on the other subjects I said I wouldn't consider, too) - But really, do I?

I, for example, never heard the evidence of the holocaust. I know it happened and people say everything was extensively documented, but I never checked that out. I just said "mkay, that's it, then". I don't even know the exact timespan of the holocaust, but considering it began in 1933 and lasted till 1945, that's 4380 days of nazis killing jews... Which is about 1400 jews killed daily for 12 years straight. An absolutely astounding number, that just goes to show how messed up the nazi regime was.

I have absolutely no doubt the holocaust happened, and that 6 million jews were killed during it. But it's not like I have a lot to back that up, because I never studied the holocaust. I've been told everything was extensively documented and that's good enough for me. It's not like I have seen the evidence for it, because I just didn't bother enough. And yet, without seeing any evidence of it at all,  I am completely closed to the idea that the holocaust might not have happened. Because that's just ridiculous, right?

Same for white supremacy or ISIS. I never looked into why white supremacists think what they do. It just sounds ridiculous to me from the very start- therefore, I don't give any thought to that. And ISIS. Who knows, if I read the Quran and talked to whatever their equivalent of a priest is I'd agree with them. All the media I see on them is heavily biased against them, and it's not like I ever looked at things from their point of view. 

I reject all sorts of ideas that I don't really know anything about daily. And in the cases where I don't flat out reject them, I learn about them while being biased towards one side, heavily or not. I am much more likely to accept ideas that stick well with my lifestyl, community e and social circles than I am to consider ideas that don't. I am much more open to politicians who're in the same side of the spectrum as me than I am of the opposition. Even when they have perfectly valid arguments, I probably am very likely to disagree first and then find excuses for rejecting that idea later, while ignoring possible evidence that would back up the idea or plan of politician X. 

Therefore, I find myself much more open for certain ideas than others, and not based on knowledge or argumentation, but rather bias and convenience... And most of the time, I don't even realize it, as I think most people don't when it happens to them. 

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