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Whats the appeal of ntr?


mitchhamilton

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12 minutes ago, mitchhamilton said:

well, i said it is consensual, not not consensual. the scenario with cuckolding is a guy likes sharing his wife, the wife agrees and so does the other person sharing the wife. ntr is more messed up where a guy loves a girl and the girl may love the guy and she is being forced into having sex with someone she doesnt know.

 

i dont watch rape in hentai or like reading it in vns. roleplay is fine because it is just roleplay. people rape roleplay in real life as well.

I guess I was just being picky by pointing out that noone's consent is being violated in a story medium. But you're right, the way you described it, it definitely sounds like a different feeling between the consensual swinger stuff and the sincerely rapey story stuff.

I myself can enjoy rape fantasy in hentai if that's the point of it and I'm not supposed to feel sympathetic to the "victim" because it's just fap material ... but if it's a character I'm meant to be sympathetic with it's like nooooooo, traumatizing. I should probably avoid NTR.

Just played some Evenicle and :

Spoiler

The main cast just left this "Kalar" elf girl to be gang raped, while she was begging to be saved. She wasn't human and they had more important things to do, pretty much. Justified it that she's probably not gonna die so it's ok. That pissed me the hell off. To quote someone from the game, "Maybe Eve (God) will forgive you, but I won't". It's like, why do I not have the option to attack the rapists. The game is amazing and thoughtful about this kinda stuff but there's a couple moments like that that really peeve me.

It's interesting to think how they've got these hard fast rules about what kind of murder and rape is not ok and it's magically enforced, but outside of those boundaries the world really doesn't give a shit. Part of the game mechanics is enslaving sentient girl monsters to use as tools, and they're even capable of intelligent speech and crying and stuff. I'm hoping this game pulls a Der Langrisser and lets me fix things from the top down. (I'm still early on I think, just got wife number 5).

Sorry went on an offtopic tangent. Thus, put it in a spoiler.

 

Edited by Corrupted
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On 8/12/2018 at 6:16 AM, Corrupted said:

 

Just played some Evenicle and :

  Reveal hidden contents

The main cast just left this "Kalar" elf girl to be gang raped, while she was begging to be saved. She wasn't human and they had more important things to do, pretty much. Justified it that she's probably not gonna die so it's ok. That pissed me the hell off. To quote someone from the game, "Maybe Eve (God) will forgive you, but I won't". It's like, why do I not have the option to attack the rapists. The game is amazing and thoughtful about this kinda stuff but there's a couple moments like that that really peeve me.

It's interesting to think how they've got these hard fast rules about what kind of murder and rape is not ok and it's magically enforced, but outside of those boundaries the world really doesn't give a shit. Part of the game mechanics is enslaving sentient girl monsters to use as tools, and they're even capable of intelligent speech and crying and stuff. I'm hoping this game pulls a Der Langrisser and lets me fix things from the top down. (I'm still early on I think, just got wife number 5).

Sorry went on an offtopic tangent. Thus, put it in a spoiler.

 

Evenicle Was made by Alicesoft, who made Rance. This should tell you enough.

Spoiler

One of the things that triggered me most was everyone's reaction to rape. It was like you were raped but I saved you so you're fine now and forgets about random girl and goes to have sex.\

And at the very end AFTER YOU CLEAR THE GAME

Spoiler

At the end, the prince who gets croix raped is just like forgiven as though the MC forgot that he got his wife raped. I mean...

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Akshay said:

Evenicle Was made by Alicesoft, who made Rance. This should tell you enough.

  Reveal hidden contents

One of the things that triggered me most was everyone's reaction to rape. It was like you were raped but I saved you so you're fine now and forgets about random girl and goes to have sex.\

And at the very end AFTER YOU CLEAR THE GAME

  Reveal hidden contents

At the end, the prince who gets croix raped is just like forgiven as though the MC forgot that he got his wife raped. I mean...

 

 

I ain't clicking on your final spoiler, sir. I really enjoy Evenicle and I intend on beating it! Legendarily fun and complete feeling game. 

Spoiler

Occasionally disturbs the fuck out of me though. On chapter five atm. Jabber's storyline...the rape/snuff videos of kidnapped girls...the mental narration of the girl as she's being raped to pieces before being eaten...I wasn't ready for that shit. I'm still feeling deeply uncomfortable about it. I mean, I did fap to it, but still.

I googled Rance, it sounds rapey AF. Aster is often ALMOST a rapist, but Rance sounds like the real deal from the description. I have such mixed feelings. I could totally enjoy rapey hentai if that's the point, but when they go out of their way to make the victims sympathetic it's like whoa, feeling kinda sick. VNs (and VN-like-rpgs) have opened me up to a whole new world of complicated, mixed feelings. 

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4 hours ago, Corrupted said:

I ain't clicking on your final spoiler, sir. I really enjoy Evenicle and I intend on beating it! Legendarily fun and complete feeling game. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Occasionally disturbs the fuck out of me though. On chapter five atm. Jabber's storyline...the rape/snuff videos of kidnapped girls...the mental narration of the girl as she's being raped to pieces before being eaten...I wasn't ready for that shit. I'm still feeling deeply uncomfortable about it. I mean, I did fap to it, but still.

I googled Rance, it sounds rapey AF. Aster is often ALMOST a rapist, but Rance sounds like the real deal from the description. I have such mixed feelings. I could totally enjoy rapey hentai if that's the point, but when they go out of their way to make the victims sympathetic it's like whoa, feeling kinda sick. VNs (and VN-like-rpgs) have opened me up to a whole new world of complicated, mixed feelings. 

well, rance is kind of a comic relief character. dont know if that helps

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6 hours ago, Corrupted said:

I ain't clicking on your final spoiler, sir. I really enjoy Evenicle and I intend on beating it! Legendarily fun and complete feeling game. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Occasionally disturbs the fuck out of me though. On chapter five atm. Jabber's storyline...the rape/snuff videos of kidnapped girls...the mental narration of the girl as she's being raped to pieces before being eaten...I wasn't ready for that shit. I'm still feeling deeply uncomfortable about it. I mean, I did fap to it, but still.

I googled Rance, it sounds rapey AF. Aster is often ALMOST a rapist, but Rance sounds like the real deal from the description. I have such mixed feelings. I could totally enjoy rapey hentai if that's the point, but when they go out of their way to make the victims sympathetic it's like whoa, feeling kinda sick. VNs (and VN-like-rpgs) have opened me up to a whole new world of complicated, mixed feelings. 

Rance is an absolute monster. He's played for comedic relief, but tons of the stories and sub-stories in the games show characters with real struggles whom Rance either rapes or tricks into having sex with him. He's a character that gets really scary if you stop half a second to consider his actions and motivations, and I tell you this as a pretty standard fan of rapey stuff "when it's the point", as you said.

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2 hours ago, Jun Inoue said:

Rance is an absolute monster. He's played for comedic relief, but tons of the stories and sub-stories in the games show characters with real struggles whom Rance either rapes or tricks into having sex with him. He's a character that gets really scary if you stop half a second to consider his actions and motivations, and I tell you this as a pretty standard fan of rapey stuff "when it's the point", as you said.

I'm glad you get what I mean. Also, yeeesshh. That sounds like it'd piss me off in a similar way to Evenicle, but much worse.

I'm literally sitting here trying to sort through my feelings on this and understand why sometimes I want to feel like the chauvinistic dominant rape overlord and sometimes I want the catgirl slave species to violently revolt and obtain freedom and dignity. Perhaps the protagonist is exactly the problem; I just can't connect emotionally with the stupid horndog fratboy hero. Give me some intelligent evil, cynicism, sadism, something I can actually understand and empathize with.

Here's a rapey protagonist I enjoyed much more: http://mangakakalot.com/manga/maou_no_hajimekata

Edited by Corrupted
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56 minutes ago, Corrupted said:

I'm glad you get what I mean. Also, yeeesshh. That sounds like it'd piss me off in a similar way to Evenicle, but much worse.

I'm literally sitting here trying to sort through my feelings on this and understand why sometimes I want to feel like the chauvinistic dominant rape overlord and sometimes I want the catgirl slave species to violently revolt and obtain freedom and dignity. Perhaps the protagonist is exactly the problem; I just can't connect emotionally with the stupid horndog fratboy hero. Give me some intelligent evil, cynicism, sadism, something I can actually understand and empathize with.

I would agree with that theory, yes. It's pretty much a matter of empathy. Even if a character is evil, there are some traits you can identify with and respect. But with some characters... it's just impossible.

Same reason why most kinds of NTR have never bothered me, actually. The "victims" in these works tend to be so comically weak and dumb I don't really identify with their struggle at all, and so don't really feel bad for them (if you're getting into terrible shit, and instead of going to the police/get help you immediately agree to become X's slave... wtf, what's wrong with your head).

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2 minutes ago, Jun Inoue said:

I would agree with that theory, yes. It's pretty much a matter of empathy. Even if a character is evil, there are some traits you can identify with and respect. But with some characters... it's just impossible.

Same reason why most kinds of NTR have never bothered me, actually. The "victims" in these works tend to be so comically weak and dumb I don't really identify with their struggle at all, and so don't really feel bad for them (if you're getting into terrible shit, and instead of going to the police/get help you immediately agree to become X's slave... wtf, what's wrong with your head).

Ooh, 10 points for tying it back into the original topic so smoothly...

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1 hour ago, Jun Inoue said:

I would agree with that theory, yes. It's pretty much a matter of empathy. Even if a character is evil, there are some traits you can identify with and respect. But with some characters... it's just impossible.

Same reason why most kinds of NTR have never bothered me, actually. The "victims" in these works tend to be so comically weak and dumb I don't really identify with their struggle at all, and so don't really feel bad for them (if you're getting into terrible shit, and instead of going to the police/get help you immediately agree to become X's slave... wtf, what's wrong with your head).

ive read some that are questionable at best as to why they have the ntr tag. one where the dude confessed to the girl he liked but she turned him down. and its not like she was doing the other guy before this, this was after. there was two girls he was interested in, the one he confessed to and one he was going to confess to. the one he was going to confess to did have feelings for him but then.... why was she banging the other guy? yeah, she bangs another guy while having feelings for someone else. my question is, why is she doing this? no signs of blackmail as far as i could see.

 

this set up is just weak as far as ntr goes. not that im a ntr supporter but it just left me more confused.

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On 8/16/2018 at 7:44 PM, mitchhamilton said:

ive read some that are questionable at best as to why they have the ntr tag. one where the dude confessed to the girl he liked but she turned him down. and its not like she was doing the other guy before this, this was after. there was two girls he was interested in, the one he confessed to and one he was going to confess to. the one he was going to confess to did have feelings for him but then.... why was she banging the other guy? yeah, she bangs another guy while having feelings for someone else. my question is, why is she doing this? no signs of blackmail as far as i could see.

 

this set up is just weak as far as ntr goes. not that im a ntr supporter but it just left me more confused.

Perhaps being confused by NTR is one way to enjoy it, and that just happens to be what you're getting out of it :>

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  • 3 months later...

NTR (all) was the most strange genre I ever heard at first, but after getting into it or trying it at least...I enjoyed it more than I thought. Now, the sexual aspects aside I enjoy it because of the psychology of it and I like the twisted & messed up side of things. Also I don't really see from my point of view while playing as protoganist, well yeah that's me playing but not me either. So I see myself as 3rd party just watching what's going on, like a movie.I don't feel any connection So, it's all a simple mystery for me. Though other's might be different I'm not sure, but I like seeing a character helpless main or side. Fun~

Edited by cykaki
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Probably the masochism side of it. People can have the weirdest fetish, after all. NTR seems relatively normal in comparison.

If anything, I'm more weirded out by the appeal of tentacles. Sure, they're phallic-shaped if you use your imagination enough... but at the same time, they are slimy, inhuman tentacles. It's just plain weird.

Big breasts and MILFs too, but at least those are easier to understand.

Edited by LemiusK
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3 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Me extremely vanilla fucking normie. Me no understand. 

But keeping in mind the amount of weird and weirder kinks out there, I can't say I'm surprised either. I mean, there are people out there who get off to guro, so... 

wow, you hear that @Dergonu? >.> isnt that just crazy, @Dergonu >.> cna you believe that there are people like that @Dergonu? >.>

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  • 2 months later...
On 10.01.2016 at 11:23 PM, mitchhamilton said:

I like to consider myself a very curious person and like to explore new point of views on various subjects. even if in the end my own point of view on the matter doesnt change, i would still like to know none the less.

With that out of the way; Whats the appeal of NTR or Netorare? for those of you who might not know what im talking about, netorare is a genre of hentai that is specifically designed to have the audience root for a couple but is derailed when a third party enters the fray ruins everything and is now the focus of the story. if you wish to see an example of ntr for yourself, i recommend Triangle Blue.

now i know some people only say they like ntr as a way form of shocking someone. an example is a straight man wearing pink. (only example i could come up with at the top of my head) so i would like to ask opinions from people who genuinely likes or even loves ntr and finds it enjoyable.

my point of view is that why like something that only exists to enrage its audience? i get that hentai is the most diverse when it comes to porn. it has almost anything you can think of and never seems to run dry on materiel. its also unique in getting the audience sort of engaged with the characters. haveing this unique trait allows it to take advantage of the audiences emotions, that can either be positive or negative, or when it comes to ntr very, very, very, very, very negative. so again, whats it appeal?

It's mostly a play on ideas...

Just like Ugly Bastards in hentai. Who would like to see, well, an ugly bastard having sex with a cute girl? Obviously, an ugly bastard and only them. xD Usually this doesn't mean that the person who likes that is ugly themselves, it's just they have a poor opinion of themselves or can't deal with being branded a pervert for their liking of hentai. That kind of deal. "I'm a monster, so I'm going to watch those monsters abuse the cute girls".

Same with netorare. I noticed that it has two groups of people who like it: again, those with poor self-liking (they imagine themselves as the one being cucked) or those with some mental problems who want to "punish" their abusers by, of course, "stealing their waifu". Most of porn and sex is based on our psychological needs and looking deep into it is just not fun. Human's mind works pretty simple, especially when it comes to sex and porn. I'd say let them have fun with netorare as long as there's more decent hentai and porn out there and as long as ugly bastards won't fill hentai and JAV like they did in Western porn. 

 

It's also interesting to note that netorare as a thing is not really classified in Western porn. You can see these constant videos and movies with "cheating" and what-not, but it's seen as a part of regular porn while JAV always marks this as "netorare". An interesting fact...

Anyways, like I said, it's best not to think deep about something as momentary as porn. As long as it's not in real life, it's fine. You just need to control the lust.

Edited by SabakiRe
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3 hours ago, SabakiRe said:

It's also interesting to note that netorare as a thing is not really classified in Western porn. You can see these constant videos and movies with "cheating" and what-not, but it's seen as a part of regular porn while JAV always marks this as "netorare". An interesting fact...

I think it's mostly due to Western porn not going into the drama aspect of cheating. This day and age, it's really all fap-length videos with only the most basic setup (or really having none beyond the title/short description tacked onto it), while hentai is more likely to add some actual story to the mix and as I understand it, you need a certain amount of context and character interaction for NTR to really work. Labelling a random, 8-minute video of "Housewife cheating on his husband with a BBC" as Netorare would strip the term of all its meaning.

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9 hours ago, SabakiRe said:

Just like Ugly Bastards in hentai. Who would like to see, well, an ugly bastard having sex with a cute girl? Obviously, an ugly bastard and only them. xD Usually this doesn't mean that the person who likes that is ugly themselves, it's just they have a poor opinion of themselves or can't deal with being branded a pervert for their liking of hentai. That kind of deal. "I'm a monster, so I'm going to watch those monsters abuse the cute girls".

Sounds like a perfect way for people with self-esteem problems to reinforce these problems imo.

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2 hours ago, Dreamysyu said:

Sounds like a perfect way for people with self-esteem problems to reinforce these problems imo.

Ah, there's never a one true answer to that because each mind works differently, even though our thinking is rather simple. It's just that there might be some barriers which will actually help them to fix these problems... well, that's not really my problem and like I said, looking deep into human thinking will leave you sad... It's best to focus on things that make you happy. 

Fetishes are fine as long as they don't go into real life. I remember talking to one netorare and monster-sex lover and they were quite unpleasant to speak to. They saw sex in everything.

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14 hours ago, SabakiRe said:

It's mostly a play on ideas...

Just like Ugly Bastards in hentai. Who would like to see, well, an ugly bastard having sex with a cute girl? Obviously, an ugly bastard and only them. xD Usually this doesn't mean that the person who likes that is ugly themselves, it's just they have a poor opinion of themselves or can't deal with being branded a pervert for their liking of hentai. That kind of deal. "I'm a monster, so I'm going to watch those monsters abuse the cute girls".

Same with netorare. I noticed that it has two groups of people who like it: again, those with poor self-liking (they imagine themselves as the one being cucked) or those with some mental problems who want to "punish" their abusers by, of course, "stealing their waifu". Most of porn and sex is based on our psychological needs and looking deep into it is just not fun. Human's mind works pretty simple, especially when it comes to sex and porn. I'd say let them have fun with netorare as long as there's more decent hentai and porn out there and as long as ugly bastards won't fill hentai and JAV like they did in Western porn. 

 

It's also interesting to note that netorare as a thing is not really classified in Western porn. You can see these constant videos and movies with "cheating" and what-not, but it's seen as a part of regular porn while JAV always marks this as "netorare". An interesting fact...

Anyways, like I said, it's best not to think deep about something as momentary as porn. As long as it's not in real life, it's fine. You just need to control the lust.

Isn't it a bit ironic to say "best not to think deep about something as momentary as porn." right after asserting that people who like NTR are either people with no self-respect or individuals with mental problems?

 

Here's an alternate explanation. Why do people like things like ugly bastards or NTR? It's transgressive porn, as is stuff like rape. Like you mentioned, the first two are mostly unheard of in the West, and consequently more difficult to discuss/compare. However, you can look up studies and texts on sex and you'll find out that niches, fetiches and the like very rarely relate in any way to real life. This means that, to use a very common example, a woman finding out she's into rape porn isn't unconsciously wishing for some random stranger to rape her. And a man into NTR/rape isn't a human husk with no self esteem or a monster 1 step away from committing a crime. That's not really how psychology or sex fetiches work.

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2 hours ago, Jun Inoue said:

Isn't it a bit ironic to say "best not to think deep about something as momentary as porn." right after asserting that people who like NTR are either people with no self-respect or individuals with mental problems?

 

Here's an alternate explanation. Why do people like things like ugly bastards or NTR? It's transgressive porn, as is stuff like rape. Like you mentioned, the first two are mostly unheard of in the West, and consequently more difficult to discuss/compare. However, you can look up studies and texts on sex and you'll find out that niches, fetiches and the like very rarely relate in any way to real life. This means that, to use a very common example, a woman finding out she's into rape porn isn't unconsciously wishing for some random stranger to rape her. And a man into NTR/rape isn't a human husk with no self esteem or a monster 1 step away from committing a crime. That's not really how psychology or sex fetiches work.

Well, that's why I said it after "asserting". 

 

They're unheard of? I meant that ugly bastards are not defined as a genre. Most of Western porn, be it full feature or short microwave bits, feature some kind of typical 40-50 year old males who fall into the category of ugly bastards. It's pretty much a rule for Western porn to have a bad looking guy violate a girl. While hentai mostly features shonen-seinen with a percentage of ugly bastards in their respectful category. 

Studies and texts are a joke. Science told people that the Earth was flat some time ago and everyone believe it. Science would laugh at the idea of there being some form of life "out there in the skies" when we don't even know how big the universe is. Even now. Science tells you what has been confirmed... sort of, just like history tells you the things that have been found. Tomorrow they'll find an old set of bones that will change the way history is told. So, yeah... believe in science and "common sense". 

As of "man into NTR/rape isn't into committing a crime, please believe me!!!" - keep those lies to yourself. As I said, human thinking is simple and should not be looked into. You're after the illusion, after all...

 

Will not follow up since you clearly responded to make illusions and avoid seeing the real deal.

Edited by SabakiRe
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6 hours ago, SabakiRe said:

Or they think they are...

Happiness is a vague feeling and one who never knew the purity and real happiness would, of course, settle down for the illusion of it. Illusions are so simple, after all...

:amane:

 

one of those people, huh?

4 hours ago, Jun Inoue said:

Isn't it a bit ironic to say "best not to think deep about something as momentary as porn." right after asserting that people who like NTR are either people with no self-respect or individuals with mental problems?

 

Here's an alternate explanation. Why do people like things like ugly bastards or NTR? It's transgressive porn, as is stuff like rape. Like you mentioned, the first two are mostly unheard of in the West, and consequently more difficult to discuss/compare. However, you can look up studies and texts on sex and you'll find out that niches, fetiches and the like very rarely relate in any way to real life. This means that, to use a very common example, a woman finding out she's into rape porn isn't unconsciously wishing for some random stranger to rape her. And a man into NTR/rape isn't a human husk with no self esteem or a monster 1 step away from committing a crime. That's not really how psychology or sex fetiches work.

i like this. 

:thumbsup:

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On 2/28/2019 at 5:09 PM, SabakiRe said:

Studies and texts are a joke. Science told people that the Earth was flat some time ago and everyone believe it. Science would laugh at the idea of there being some form of life "out there in the skies" when we don't even know how big the universe is. Even now. Science tells you what has been confirmed... sort of, just like history tells you the things that have been found. Tomorrow they'll find an old set of bones that will change the way history is told. So, yeah... believe in science and "common sense". 

Unrelated to the topic, but I'm afraid you have a very poor understanding of what science is. Science does not "tell" people anything; it's a process based on experimentation, empiricism, and induction that people interpret. The reason why our understanding of the world keeps changing is because science itself is based on constant reiterations of experiments to get more accurate results. I mean, the human mind is still pretty limited, so the technology and methodology we create won't get all the answers, so we have to check things over and over and push ourselves to experiment more. If we didn't, we wouldn't be as advanced as we are today.

 

Back on topic: As other people have said, the way we perceive porn and sexuality is a lot more nuanced than we realize. It's very deeply ingrained within our psychology, and due to pressure from culture, it gets molded and repressed into numerous forms. Ignoring the sex aspect of it, if you try to simplify what ntr is, it's a power struggle between 3 people: the thief, the one being thieved, and the one being thieved from. Theft is a type of violence, specifically, violence towards someone's property. From this, we can glean two things: ntr can be understood in terms of violence, and the one being thieved is acting as an object.

Humans are predisposed to fascination with violence. Most of our history is based on war, ingroups/outgroups, and competition. We fill fiction with all sorts of violent content. The entire appeal of storytelling relies on overcoming a conflict. It's easy for us to laugh at other people's suffering, and we are more than happy to ostracize and bully those who are weak and estranged. Sexuality is also affected by this (even in other animals): specimens fighting each other for a mate, aggression during copulation, killing or neglecting children sired by another, isolation of sexually deviant specimens, shaming, the list goes on and on. Violence is thrilling to us, so we go out of our way to seek it. With ntr, it's easy to see what role it plays. It's the thrill of seeing something ripped away from where we think it's supposed to be and watching it being ruined and corrupted. These stories often involve rape, mindbreak, torture, depression, and jealousy.

People have a multitude of ways of responding to this. In my experience, only a minority of ntr consumers are actually masochistic. The violence in ntr can also be enjoyed through schadenfreude. People love watching the girl getting destroyed, the cuck fall into despair, and the sheer brutality of partner stealing. From this perspective, it's not weird or deviant at all. It's pretty normal to love seeing others get hurt.

Something that particularly interests me is the fixation on the cuck's depression and jealousy rather than the girl's suffering. I've met a lot of hentai fans that enjoy seeing girls getting hurt in sexual situations to the point where female suffering is practically accepted as normal within hentai circles. I've seen many people praise netori despite it also being based on cheating. I think this reveals a lot about how people perceive the pain of others. Humans are inherently selfish, and we interpret the world according to our own interests. People are projecting and equating themselves onto the cuck and get frustrated when they don't act the way they imagine how they would act. They interpret the fiction according to their own reality, and it in turn reflects the way they perceive the world.

 

wait what the fuck am i even talking about. pretty sure im just rambling at this point, sorry for the long post ._.

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