Lucius Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Hi everyone. The name is Lucius. Pleasure to meet everyone.I've been a big fan of choice-based games for a long time, so visual novels have really caught my interest. However, I noticed that a lot of them are out of my reach due to localization and translation issues, such as the amazing branching game of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni: Sui (which unfortunately won't ever be translated because Alchemist will never play nice with MangaGamer and vice versa).Alas, I'm tired of having so many cool visual novels (and nukige ) being unavailable to me, so I've made a promise to myself to pick up Japanese very soon... after I earn enough money to take up Japanese lessons (I'm too lazy and attention-deficit to ever learn the language on my own). So, with that burning desire, I have a question about learning Japanese...Is it possible to play 90% of all visual novels after learning the language for 1-2 years? Or would I still struggle with reading everything every five minutes? How hard is it to learn Japanese, exactly? I've heard a lot of people dismissing the 'myth' that learning Japanese is tough when it's supposedly a very easy language to pick up. How much truth is there to the statement?Anyway, it's nice to meet you all. Hope to see you around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dergonu Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) Hey, welcome to the forum! To answer your question, reading visual novels untranslated is possible even without knowing the language completely, with the use of text hookers and translation programs. Personally, I have been learning Japanese on my own for about 6 months, and I am capable of reading fairly normal moege titles with ease.That being said, a lot of VNs in the mystery, horror genre and also other VNs with plot that would naturally introdouce difficult words and phrases are difficult to read, even with these programs, and it would probably take years of learning to truly have a pleasant reading experience with such titles.Clephas has a fairly in depth thread on this, though I don't have the link for it at the moment. Let me edit the post once I find it.EDIT: Here it is Edited December 29, 2015 by Dergonu Lucius and Chronopolis 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 That being said, a lot of VNs in the mystery, horror genre and also other VNs with plot that would naturally introdouce difficult words and phrases are difficult to read, even with these programs, and it would probably take years of learning to truly have a pleasant reading experience with such titles. Ahhh, years you said? Gah, I guess I wouldn't mind devoting about 5 years to learning Japanese if I could no longer have the need to rely on translations to read visual novels anymore. I just hope that it's possible to have an end-goal in sight rather than finding out later that you need a whole lifetime of Japanese-learning to truly enjoy visual novels. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dergonu Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 That being said, a lot of VNs in the mystery, horror genre and also other VNs with plot that would naturally introdouce difficult words and phrases are difficult to read, even with these programs, and it would probably take years of learning to truly have a pleasant reading experience with such titles. Ahhh, years you said? Gah, I guess I wouldn't mind devoting about 5 years to learning Japanese if I could no longer have the need to rely on translations to read visual novels anymore. I just hope that it's possible to have an end-goal in sight rather than finding out later that you need a whole lifetime of Japanese-learning to truly enjoy visual novels. lolWell, although it will most likely take a few years to be able to read without any programs at all, during the learning period you can still read things untranslated with the aid of programs, such as text hookers and parsers. And let me tell you, there is nothing more satisfying than actually being able to understand lines in the VN, completely without the help of the programs; actually noticing your improvement. It's a long ride, but it will be worth it in the long run if you are actually serious about it and want to do it. I'm sure some of the other members who have actually know Japanese can give a little more info on this topic.Anyways, I've ranted long enough. Again, welcome to the forum! Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawasumi Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Im reading japanese VNs with the machine translated method so far and for me it works, I actually enjoy the vn way more because I get to learn japanese in the process.But yeah you're gonna miss the writing style and flow of the specific author, that still doesnt mean that you cant enjoy the story though.Just keep at it, dont let the thought of learning scare you from reading VNs! Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllusion Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Welcome, Lucius. Learn japanese is not tough at all.Based on my experience, if you want to read without help of any tool (e.g. JParser to put furigana above kanjis), one~two years might be insufficient time to learn enough kanji and vocabulary. Well, it is because I did wasted time instead study kanji hard, so I think I took more time. Anyway, I do not want to desmotivate you, I think if you study kanji hard (unlike me), maybe you can do it in 2 years.If you do not care about kanji (you can even put furigana above the kanjis using tools), you should be able to read easily the majority of visual novel in 1-2 years. Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Based on my experience, if you want to read without help of any tool (e.g. JParser to put furigana above kanjis), one~two years might be insufficient time to learn enough kanji and vocabulary. Well, it is because I did wasted time instead study kanji hard, so I think I took more time. Anyway, I do not want to desmotivate you, I think if you study kanji hard (unlike me), maybe you can do it in 2 years.If you do not care about kanji (you can even put furigana above the kanjis using tools), you should be able to read easily the majority of visual novel in 1-2 years.Would prior knowledge in Chinese language help? I was raised learning Chinese, so a number of kanji characters were quite recognizable to me, despite the nuance in meaning between Chinese and kanji characters. I also felt that, even though the characters of kanji can have different meanings from their Chinese counterparts, the difference isn't really that far-off.Hopefully, my knowledge in Chinese characters would help decrease the learning period significantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllusion Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Would prior knowledge in Chinese language help? I was raised learning Chinese, so a number of kanji characters were quite recognizable to me, despite the nuance in meaning between Chinese and kanji characters. I also felt that, even though the characters of kanji can have different meanings from their Chinese counterparts, the difference isn't really that far-off.Hopefully, my knowledge in Chinese characters would help decrease the learning period significantly. I think that previous Chinese knowledge would be a big help for you to some extent. Well, I do not know about the Chinese language, so I cannot guarantee it.Although there are some "original" (国字) japanese kanjis, as far I know most of them are based on chinese characters. Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minuore Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) I watched a lot of anime in the past before reading VN. Could understand simple dialogue and make out the meaning from translation programs. Since you have some chinese knowledge like me, it is simpler. After learning Hiragana and Katakana, and tried to study a bit of the kanji started reading VN. Knowledge seems fine, but I was stuck up with trying to read correctly per phrase, that's why I tried study kanji. But it came naturally while playing with voices that read out loud for you. P.S Forgot to mention, I self study. Not yet find time to take up courses.And welcome. Not telling you to take JPLT, just showing a chart I found recently. From JPLT wiki under 'Estimated Study Time' Edited December 30, 2015 by minuore Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronopolis Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) I'd say it takes about 2 hours a day for about 6 months (about 360 hours of study) to get to a decent place to try starting reading VN's. This is focusing on grammar and reading (not conversation or writing). A few people actually get through this in 6 months, but most kind of wind through it in 1-1.5 years. Another reason why the start takes longer is that its the part where you have to get used to studying Japanese, and also figure out what you should be studying about. It's very disorienting for the first while since you'll have no idea how close you are to being able to read.After that, about 1000 hours of reading and another 200 hours of grammar/vocab study (this part is very important, don't stop studying completely once you've started reading) and you'll be able to read 95% of VN's comfortably with dictionary assistance. This part probably takes another 1-1.5 years.Add another 1000 hours of reading and 200 hours of grammar/vocab study, and you can read most VN's without dictionary assistance without looking up too many words.I don't like to say "you can read VN's if you study for 5 years." It's more like, if you study for X amount of hours (with a non-silly study method), there's no way you won't make substantial progress towards your goal. Edited December 30, 2015 by Chronopolis Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Striker Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 ohhhh your name its the origin of my name ( my real name its lucio)welcome to fuwaenjoy your stay . Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flutterz Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Welcome to the forums! Hope you enjoy your stay!Do you have a favourite VN?Have a moe: Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashetania Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Hello and welcome! I hope you enjoy your stay Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 You know, that title of thread remind me of that ads i see in some web. Of course the word 'Otaku' is replaced with'Single hot girl' Anyway, welcome to the forums hope you enjoy your stay Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 Do you have a favourite VN?Can't say I do yet, though I do like Grisaia no Kajitsu and Clannad.And thanks for the welcome, everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B0X0R Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hello. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monmon Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hello.Wow....just hello? be more unique or creative.And Hi~~~ welcome to fuwa. And nice name remind me of something but i cant really remember what is it.Oh do u prefer Futanari or traps? Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B0X0R Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hello.Wow....just hello? be more unique or creative.And Hi~~~ welcome to fuwa. And nice name remind me of something but i cant really remember what is it.Oh do u prefer Futanari or traps?Too tired. I'll try again.Yay! You made it to fuwa forums! Weee! You did it! Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monmon Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hello.Wow....just hello? be more unique or creative.And Hi~~~ welcome to fuwa. And nice name remind me of something but i cant really remember what is it.Oh do u prefer Futanari or traps?Too tired. I'll try again.Yay! You made it to fuwa forums! Weee! You did it!Thats better buddy!!!! even though i imagined you saying that with Monotone but its better than just a Hello. And Happy new year, B0X0R and Lucius 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 Oh do u prefer Futanari or traps?Haha, if I have a choice, neither... But traps would probably be more preferable than futa... probably... I mean, the donger of traps are smaller, right...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monmon Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Oh do u prefer Futanari or traps?Haha, if I have a choice, neither... But traps would probably be more preferable than futa... probably... I mean, the donger of traps are smaller, right...? Depend i guess, But yeah most of them have smaller donger than the penerator. U should start liking traps, because traps will be essential for the future. They are the epitome of Moe, Traps are the same as Kinder surprise, u will never know whats inside until u open it . Lucius 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.