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Nosebleed

[Spoilers] Star Wars VII Discussion

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56 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

Pretty exciting, although I am worried by the fact that the new trilogy will be made with only 2 years separating each entry (versus the previous 3 years), which could make for a rushed job.
Although I guess you could attribute it to more modern technology too.

It will be a long wait until 2017, and then another long one until 2019.
And what will make me OCD is that it will end on Star Wars IX instead of a beautiful, round X.

 

It may seem rushed if we keep in mind the size and magnitude of these films but as you say a year give or take might be able to be reduced from the production time if you take into consideration all the new techniques and advantages of new software and cameras and all that.

haha, i feel sorry for your OCD though :wahaha:

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Finn is the more believable Jedi then Rey. 

Finn is just like anakin and luke. Rey is like some god child or pure blood sith that can bend the will of the force with no training at all. Remember, Akakin was the strongest jedi of all time as a child. He had more of that stuff in him then any other child ever born and he couldnt do a single psychic thing.

What he could do was use intuition, and understand how things work. That is why anakin and luke both know how to fix and create things. Finn is this way. He never once used a weapons system but somehow shoots veterans out of the sky. He remembers entire schematics of facility from glances even though he was a mere grunt. He resisted mind manipulation, which hasn't been done by any stormtrooper, as mentioned by that trooper commander.

Finn is basically a real jedi in the making while Rey is something more akin to the emperor. Someone with an innate ability to control the force with absolutely no training. Remember, the greatest jedi of all time, couldnt so much as lift a pebble with their minds without training.

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was gonna make a thread on the movie until i found this and pretty much agree with everything you said nosebleed. this really does feel like a rehash of hope. but what else could they do? the prequels were about the fall of order and the jedi while the sequels were about taking everything back and destroying the empire. fall and rise so what are they supposed to do?

i like rey as a character but she is was op for the movie. i also hate women in movies being ultimate badasses. its getting tiring. i liked finn and how he turns. i was honestly hoping he would become a jedi but it looks like its gonna focus mostly in rey becoming a jedi. which is a shame because i find finns character would be more interesting to watch in becoming a jedi. i also have to agree that finn turning didnt really make a whole lot of sense. i also saw a sever lack of hand to hand combat training. that striked me as a bit odd.

the humor, i dont know how to put it but it feels like something from this generation. i dont know how to explain it but its obvious the humor from the original and this are from two different time periods.

i think they do a nice job in building the characters but i think there was way too many action scenes. maybe they couldve left out the one with han and the people he made a deal with.

darth emo was the biggest disappointment in every way imaginable. first off i didnt like his voice. it just sounds like its trying to be really intimidating. this has never changed throughout the movie. he had a pretty badass entrance. he stopped a laser in mid air. something weve never seen before but he gets undermined when the movie decides to give him a character and arc. also they undermined him more when he interacts with rey.

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I liked it, I really did. But on the other hand, I've seen this movie already, many years ago. The entire thing is just two plus hours of squeezing new pegs into old familiar holes. An entertaining and engaging process, to be sure, and I can't wait for the real movie to start. In 2017.

Other than that, I wasn't entirely comfortable with pacing as well. I was fully expecting the search for Luke to take half of the second film, but... nope, there he is.

Also also, I've just seen Oscar Isaac in Show Me a Hero (where he's really, really good), and I barely recognized him.

Also also also, JJ Abrams is finally doing what he's good at in a job that suits his style. Too bad he had to turn Star Trek into Star Wars Lite to get the damn job.*

Also x4, can we all agree that Snoke is an unforgivably godawful name for the Big Bad?

 

*Actually, come to think of it, Lucas basically tried to do the reverse in the SW prequels. He tried to make them more "trekky" with all the council sessions, politics and trying to give a scientific explanation to the Force. That was also an entirely wrong way to go about it. Star Wars is to Star Trek what religion is to science (no offense meant to either). In SW, everything just works. Nobody explains and nobody should explain the mechanics of the fucking lightsaber or insist that the power of the Force is determined by intracellular organelles with a corny pseudoscientific name (that is in itself a lazy portmanteau of mitochondria and chloroplasts). That's what Trek fans get off on.

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On 22/12/2015 at 2:44 PM, Nosebleed said:

Warning: I will assume people who read this thread have watched the movie.
If you haven't, there will be heavy spoilers below. You have been warned.

 

Okay so I watched the movie last night in a theatre with a couple of my friends and we discussed it a little bit but I wanted to think back on it before making a thread here. Now that i have slept on the issue, here are some of my thoughts on the newest movie.

First off, let me just start by saying I really enjoyed the movie and have no regrets about seeing it. It never once got boring to watch and it packed all the action you could have wanted from Star Wars in 2 hours. Visually speaking, it was also great, everything from character designs to special effects felt like the producers have watched Star Wars and wanted to remain faithful to its style and what its fans love, and I really tip my hat off to that. In terms of soundtrack, something Star Wars is also known for, I found the movie to be less memorable in comparison to the first movies, but nonetheless utilizing the music to its benefit, so at least there was no jarring flaws with the soundtrack either. The fights, oh man the fights, from spaceships to light saber fights, the choreography was fast paced and spot on in its delivery, really showing the potential modern day film combat can bring.

I think it was a very nice way to kick off the franchise once again, but with everything that's good, there's going to be some bad associated with it, and after thinking about it I do find some important flaws this movie has that sort of break the immersion a little bit, and as I'm sure it is the same with a lot of people, most of these flaws come from the characters, but some with the story.

Starting with the movie's plot itself, please tell me I'm not the only one who feels like the entire movie was just a huge rehash of episode IV. Now look, I'm all cool with playing the nostalgia card, I was thrilled when I saw the Millenium Falcon, Han Solo, Chewbacca, C3PO, Leia and all the other things and references from the previous movies show up, but the overarching plot and narrative of the movie was literally the same as episode IV's plot: Droid has something important > Empire wants it > Random people find it > They bring it to the rebelssistance > Dark side has a new death star > They're going to destroy everything > Death Star hasa fatal flaw > Our heroes end up saving the day after drafting up a plan.

There was no element of surprise when it came to the story itself, everything played out exactly like in episode IV, except this time the Death Star was the size of a planet and fed off on suns. For the love of god, who builds these death machines with a tunnel that leads to the core so it can just be destroyed? I mean, you'd figure Empire 2.0 would learn from the mistakes of its predecessors, but I guess not.

It's not that the story itself doesn't hold up, it's just that it felt so much like a clone of Episode IV with small little tweaks that it feels a little cheap when you think back on it. When I left the theatre, I thought the movie was fun, had lots of great moments, but in the back of my head I just think "I've seen this story already", and that's sort of a joy kill.

But moving on to the characters, and where I find the biggest problems with the movie to lie.

Starting off with the new protagonist, Rey. Rey is basically Luke 2.0 when it comes ot her origin story. I know she is his daughter, but you could have made her a bit less obviously the same as Luke in terms of background. However, my biggest problem with Rey comes from the fact that she's essentially a Mary Sue. Do you know why Luke had charm? Because he starts off as a kid with little experience and gets defeated in the first movies, and then gets strong enough to fight back, but even when he fights back, he's still pretty much on par with Darth Vader and not even a match for the emperor's powers. But Rey? Rey can literally do anything in the film, she's pretty much flawless in everything she does there, so much so that the movie almost ends up devolving into this "So how is Rey going to save everything now?" type of back and forth. She's able to pilot the Millennium Falcon right from the start, better than freaking Lando Calrissian in episode VI, even though she doesn't appear to have any prior experience with it. But even accepting that she's somehow a skilled pilot, you can not tell me her becoming a Jedi master in mere minutes, when Luke himself had to train with Yoda to be able to even offer some kind of meaningful resistence, is somehow justified. I was baffled that she suddenly is able to use the force to such an extent that she can defeat Kylo Ren every time and escape every single trap she's put in, it just didn't feel believable that such a Jedi newbie could go so far when they had not had any sort of experience whatsoever and I was a little underwhelmed by her character because of it. I applaud them for introducing a strong female protagonist, she really felt like she could grow so much, but I did not expect that growth to be like this. If you introduce a character and make them exceed at everything they do right from the start, there's honestly not much to like or relate to about them, they just become this figure that you know is never going to lose, and that broke off the tension for me a lot of the times.

Moving on to Finn. I don't have a lot of problems with Finn's personality and way of acting and I actually really found his premise to be the most interesting out of all the characters. He was freed from the grasp of the First Order and wants to get away, a completely reasonable choice to make, but my major problem with his character was how he came to be. He's a soldier who was trained from when he was a child to be a lifeless murderer, just like every single storm trooper ever, and you're going to tell me he, and just he could suddenly flip a switch inside his head that made him realize: "Wait a minute, this is fucked up" ? I had a very hard time coming to terms with the way this character is born, and I honestly still do, it just doesn't feel consistent with everything that's happened before. Outside of that, there's that one part where it's revealed Finn was essentially just a janitor in Death Star 2.0, yet he's essentially able to deactivate its shields and know basically everything about the biggest death gun the empire has yet built, I can't help but question how these people instruct their troops if even a janitor is able to take out the entire base if they just have outside help. 

Lastly, Kylo Ren, or should I say, emo kid who's totally not going through a phase, dad! When I first saw Kylo Ren, I thought he looked menacing as hell, his character design is so good and the light saber he has just helps make him look all edgy. But the moment you're revealed who he is and the moment he takes off his mask... oh boy the disappointment settled in. Why did you take off the mask, Ren? He looks like he's about to cry every time he takes off the mask like some emo teenager who had daddy issues. Now don't get me wrong, I'm okay with a more emotionally unstable version of Darth Vader, there's a lot of potential in him for the upcoming films and even Darth Vader himself started off as more emotionally unstable, but Kylo Ren just didn't have the presence you'd normally think of when you think of a main villain, and the fact that he clearly showcases how strongly he uses the force, yet gets instantly defeated by Rey was really the biggest issue I had with the movie. Rey being a Mary Sue and Kylo Ren being really weak at the end just didn't add up to me and I feel as though she should not have won so easily against someone who's supposed to be the next Vader.

But I don't think all hope is lost, my thinking is that Kylo Ren will now be transformed into a murder machine like Vader was in the upcoming movies and Rey will actually get strong using the proper methods, then we'll have a more decent fight between the two, but man these two characters really felt like they had their roles reversed and the immersion kinda broke at the end because of it for me.

To close off the rant, I still would like to say I loved the movie and I think there's extra potential for the upcoming movies because of it, so there's nothing that makes the movie really bad or anything of the sort, and if you're reading this thread without having seen it, I avidly recommend you do so, because it really is great. Nonetheless, when you compare it to its prequels, I do think this movie had some rather apparent flaws, which I genuinely hope will be fixed in the future, and of course I'll be going to both sequels whenever they come out.

So what are your thoughts on the movie and the reboot of the franchise in general?

Agree.

Except the fact that all your points which are mostly negative points to me as a screenwriter made me cry of disgust watching that movie. Especally this :

 

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Making ep.7  a rehash of ep.4 was a safe and deliberate move. I am sure they they will now move to making the new movies with their own identity.

22 hours ago, mitchhamilton said:

darth emo was the biggest disappointment in every way imaginable.

I actually liked this about him, made him human. Once the mask is off he becomes normal; no more intimidating voice...

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On 27/03/2016 at 8:45 AM, kingdomcome said:

I actually liked this about him, made him human. Once the mask is off he becomes normal; no more intimidating voice..

That just makes him remind me of Rick Moranis playing Dark Helmet in Spaceballs the movie... not a good association.

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2 hours ago, ittaku said:

That just makes him remind me of Rick Moranis playing Dark Helmet in Spaceballs the movie... not a good association.

Why you do this to me!? He's the last guy I want to think of when I think of Ren..

 

tumblr_nzsrsmd5DK1rbi291o1_1280.png

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On 29/03/2016 at 1:20 AM, ittaku said:

Hah. Because I feel it is my responsibility to point out to people how shit this movie really is.

Visuallly well done, but the story was terrible indeed

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On 22/12/2015 at 1:44 PM, Nosebleed said:

Moving on to Finn. I don't have a lot of problems with Finn's personality and way of acting and I actually really found his premise to be the most interesting out of all the characters. He was freed from the grasp of the First Order and wants to get away, a completely reasonable choice to make, but my major problem with his character was how he came to be. He's a soldier who was trained from when he was a child to be a lifeless murderer, just like every single storm trooper ever, and you're going to tell me he, and just he could suddenly flip a switch inside his head that made him realize: "Wait a minute, this is fucked up" ? I had a very hard time coming to terms with the way this character is born, and I honestly still do, it just doesn't feel consistent with everything that's happened before. Outside of that, there's that one part where it's revealed Finn was essentially just a janitor in Death Star 2.0, yet he's essentially able to deactivate its shields and know basically everything about the biggest death gun the empire has yet built, I can't help but question how these people instruct their troops if even a janitor is able to take out the entire base if they just have outside help. 

He was a pretty abysmal character, in a sea of abysmal characters.

Like you said, he was removed from his family as a kid, trained and grew up to be a part of the First Order, and all of a sudden he's like "lol nah." Although to be fair on that point, he seemed to be bothered right from the start, so maybe it was going on for a while.

it shows him right at the start going over to that other storm trooper and holding him as he dies, and he seems to be very distraught by it. But after he leaves the order and they get to wherever it was, the first fight he gets into, he just instantly shoots 2 storm troopers as they get near him, doesn't even flinch. He fucking grew up with those people, they're closest to "family" and friends he had, and as shown at the start, he cares about them dying, yet all of a sudden in 20 or 30 minutes of the film he can kill them in droves with no thought whatsoever.

His character just makes no sense, it has no consistency.

 

People rating Force Awakens over the prequels is mental to me...

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