G-Senjou no Maou: Fan TL vs Sekai TL

[Scorp]

It is worth to pay for the game. First, you are helping a company that is bringing new VNs to the west, and not only "already available" ones. Second, the only real issue is that they removed the H-scenes [which weren't that good anyway].

And I can't see the problem people complain about the cropped CGs. It wasn't even Sekai Project's decision, and they didn't crop essential parts of them, just some borders. They are also in HD, so why not?

You do not see the problem with cropped CG - but other people see, believe me. Also main point is that it was possible to do all without cropping by utilizing scroll - but not one really cared for that it seems, so we got what we got - cutted and cropped widescreen edition, which is praised as "superior", dunno for what reason, as it is not.

[CryingWestern]

Think about it as "someone giving you a lollipop, and then that person takes the delicious lolly and leaves you with the stick."

Edited November 17, 2015 by CryingWestern

[Deep Blue]

^you can always build a house with the sticks and turn it into a hobby, is like minecraft but in real life  

 

[CeruleanGamer]

Sekai's version is objectively the inferior one except maybe for the polished fantranslations. I'm not a Grammar Nazi to even care about that shit because I'm fluent in English and I still know what is happening even though there are some improper verbs or pronouns here and there.

I'll take the uncut/uncensored versions even with the silly mosaics and light saber dicks, all day, any day.

Edited November 17, 2015 by CeruleanGamer

[Zalor]

I read G-Senjou no Maou a while ago, but I remember the fan translators breaking the fourth wall a few times for some jokes. I don't remember exactly, but I think there was this one instance where Kyousuke tells his friend something like "Does this look like a crappily translated porn game to you". I swear, they better keep lines like that. They had me cracking up. 

[Pabloc]

From what one of the editors said on Steam, apparently their censorship is limited pretty much only to pictures - text is almost unaltered and the sex still remains in the story (it just isn't explicitly shown), so the plot shouldn't be affected. At least that's what he claims. And yeah, the poor job at cropping is AkabeiSoft's fault, not Sekai's.

But... so what? It doesn't change the fact it's a cut version with not-that-great, cropped "HD". And since AkabeiSoft only made an all-ages "HD" version (so - no "HD" H-CGs), the chances for an English 18+ release are very slim. Buying it does NOT support "releasing VNs on the West". It supports the practice of releasing ONLY censored, Steam-DRM-ridden versions of originally 18+ VNs with no choice whatsoever. Because why bother with uncut releases, when people will buy whatever you throw at them anyway?

[Dergonu]

H-scenes are censored with mosaics. So please be correct in terms, this really misguide people. That's why Sekai told their version is "unrated", not "uncensored".

This is not it being censored, this is Japanese laws. Completely different. Censored in this case means the H-Scenes are literally not there. They are removed. 

If we are going by the literal definition of the word, content being removed from the game in order to not show a part of it to a certain audience is censorship. And so, it is censored. 

The mosaics however, are usually, (not all the time), added to H-Scenes due to Japanese laws when releasing H-content. And seeing as that then means its the original version of the game, nothing has in fact been censored. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Dergonu

[CryingWestern]

Japanese law states that any pornographic material must be censored with in its borders.

That's why Mosaic Censor is used in Pornographic materials (Porn films, Porn mags, etc.).

There are some other materials that censorship is more lenient on, like bars, invisible genitals or not showing of the genitals at all.

You'll never see uncensored material from japan, unless it's officially done(western companies will redraw the footage), someone from the unknown will try to do one of their own, or the author takes a risk and uploads it but on a western site.

Edited November 19, 2015 by CryingWestern

[Pabloc]

@Dergonu

Censorship isn't limited only to removal of content. Altering original material in a certain way can qualify as such, too. And no, original pictures are NOT drawn with mosaics - those are applied later (sure, some artists take that into consideration, and don't give a damn about drawing those parts correctly, but that's beside the point). "Uncensored" always used to mean "without Japanese mosaic censoring" - because this used to be the only censorship to speak of. In the past, cutting 18+ content from Western releases wasn't that common (only Hirameki was doing this regularly... and they're long dead).

[Dergonu]

@Dergonu

Censorship isn't limited only to removal of content. Altering original material in a certain way can qualify as such, too. And no, original pictures are NOT drawn with mosaics - those are applied later (sure, some artists take that into consideration, and don't give a damn about drawing those parts correctly, but that's beside the point). "Uncensored" always used to mean "without Japanese mosaic censoring" - because this used to be the only censorship to speak of. In the past, cutting 18+ content from Western releases wasn't that common (only Hirameki was doing this regularly... and they're long dead).

No no, of course not. That was not what I mean either. What I mean that in the case of this thread, the "censorship" in question was the removal of H-Content. It seemed like someone were confused with the use of the word "uncensored" when the game still has mosaics. 

Of course mosaic censorship … well it is censorship. But when the original version, uncut, is released like that, technically you can't really call that censored, as it wasn't intended to be released without the mosaics in the first place due to Japanese laws making them add those. 

 

Basically, the game is considered the "uncensored" version even though it has mosaics, as thats how it was originally released. 

Like CryingWestern pointed out above, it is required to censor H-Scenes with mosaics in Japanese visual novels, and so by that logic, that version is the original. 

[Scorp]

H-scenes are censored with mosaics. So please be correct in terms, this really misguide people. That's why Sekai told their version is "unrated", not "uncensored".

This is not it being censored, this is Japanese laws. Completely different. Censored in this case means the H-Scenes are literally not there. They are removed. 

If we are going by the literal definition of the word, content being removed from the game in order to not show a part of it to a certain audience is censorship. And so, it is censored. 

The mosaics however, are usually, (not all the time), added to H-Scenes due to Japanese laws when releasing H-content. And seeing as that then means its the original version of the game, nothing has in fact been censored. 

No one asks "why". Image is censored, this is a fact. Why you tell "not being censored"? No matter what way it was done - first drawing a penis and after putting mosaic or putting mosaic on empty space - fact is that image itself was censored. Google, if you do not understand word "censored"...

[Dergonu]

H-scenes are censored with mosaics. So please be correct in terms, this really misguide people. That's why Sekai told their version is "unrated", not "uncensored".

This is not it being censored, this is Japanese laws. Completely different. Censored in this case means the H-Scenes are literally not there. They are removed. 

If we are going by the literal definition of the word, content being removed from the game in order to not show a part of it to a certain audience is censorship. And so, it is censored. 

The mosaics however, are usually, (not all the time), added to H-Scenes due to Japanese laws when releasing H-content. And seeing as that then means its the original version of the game, nothing has in fact been censored. 

No one asks "why". Image is censored, this is a fact. Why you tell "not being censored"? No matter what way it was done - first drawing a penis and after putting mosaic or putting mosaic on empty space - fact is that image itself was censored. Google, if you do not understand word "censored"...

Not gonna get into an argument, its all there in my first comments Just read it again for my reply. Its censored, but its not. (Sounds kind of philosophical, doesn't it?)

[Scorp]

 

Not gonna get into an argument, its all there in my first comments Just read it again for my reply. Its censored, but its not. (Sounds kind of philosophical, doesn't it?)

Seems you do not understand what censorship is... Actually that's why I told you to read more about censorship.

No matter who did that, for what reasons, in what way, even if it was done by authors and version is "original" - it is still considered as censorship. Even if portions of text in books were changed by the author who was afraid fo something - this is still censorship, in this case "self-censorship".

It is completely wrong to tell that "original" version was uncensored just because it was made this way in the first place. Companies need to sell their products, if there were no such laws - no one would even bother to make these mosaics, we would have normally drawn genitals instead of that nonsense

[Yuuko]

Mosaics are hot

[Dergonu]

Mosaics are hot

Damn, this made me choke on my coffee xD

[Pabloc]

Of course mosaic censorship … well it is censorship. But when the original version, uncut, is released like that, technically you can't really call that censored, as it wasn't intended to be released without the mosaics in the first place due to Japanese laws making them add those.

Errr, no - you CAN call it censored. It isn't "censored more than the JP version", but it can't be considered "uncensored" in any way - like I said, this means "no mosaics". So no, Denpasoft's 18+ Grisaia is still censored. Suika and Ef released by MangaGamer are also censored, but MG explicitly warns customers about it (using tags - "with mosaics" or "reduced mosaics"), instead of using completely meaningless terms (I'm pretty sure nobody officially rates Western 18+ VN releases, so technically all of them are "unrated").

[Scorp]

Errr, no - you CAN call it censored. It isn't "censored more than the JP version", but it can't be considered "uncensored" in any way - like I said, this means "no mosaics". So no, Denpasoft's 18+ Grisaia is still censored. Suika and Ef released by MangaGamer are also censored, but MG explicitly warns customers about it (using tags - "with mosaics" or "reduced mosaics"), instead of using completely meaningless terms (I'm pretty sure nobody officially rates Western 18+ VN releases, so technically all of them are "unrated").

Yes, exactly my reasons to complain. Why Sekai/Denpa have to contrive/hide the truth/promise uncensored version/after tell "never promised anything"/release with "unrated" badge... Why?? Why you cannot tell honestly on start page "have mosaic censorship" without confusing people and having excuse "if you click in faq on this page and check it - you could read that it is indeed censored"? Why not tell from beginning "cropped CG"?? Why all these aspect I would know only after spending huge amount of time lurking Steam/Fuwa/Google?

I am not a fan of MG or Jast, but at least with Jast I could be sure that I will not see any mosaics (at least by today, all could be different in future, I know), and MG clearly show what you will get, along with "mosaic censorship" badge and with CG examples.

[Darklord Rooke]

 So no, Denpasoft's 18+ Grisaia is still censored. Suika and Ef released by MangaGamer are also censored, but MG explicitly warns customers about it (using tags - "with mosaics" or "reduced mosaics"), instead of using completely meaningless terms (I'm pretty sure nobody officially rates Western 18+ VN releases, so technically all of them are "unrated").

As a consumer of games and electronic media for close to 3 decades now, I really don't buy the "warning the consumer angle." Sorry. The default expectations of the consumer when bringing over games from another country is that the game arrives in the same condition as it was in Japan, not that it's been magically enhanced. MangaGamer tries to go above and beyond to give out as much information as possible, and to cater to their core fanbase, but this isn't the behaviour of most companies and I don't buy the excuse that Sekai were preying on unsuspecting consumers.

'Censorship' technically means what Pabloc says, that is true. Unfortunately when publishers of foreign media plaster 'censored' on their website, consumers tend to infer that it has been additionally censored during the process of localisation. So it's a case of one word with two possible meanings, and that might be why Sekai are reluctant to do so. Shooting off a quick question should solve the issue... provided Sekai answers. 

But not giving the consumer all the information is quite common. I'm in a bad internet state, so I'm really annoyed with Telltale's new habit of releasing 'season pass discs' instead of having episodes stores on the discs like the good old days. Game of Thrones PC edition has 1 episode on the disc, and you have to download the rest. They don't have this information plastered on the cover, the consumer has to hunt for the information, and I'm glad I wasn't caught unaware like some people have. Providing all information relevant to all consumers is quite impossible, so they only put up information they deem pertinent for the audience they're targeting. Telltale has always targeted the digital audience, so they don't feel their new policy is that big a deal. My gut reaction is Sekai's aiming for the all-ages crowd, so taking additional time to redesign their website just to say 'we haven't modified our game from the Japanese', which to be fair has always been the default assumption, could be seen as something of low priority.

I don't buy the 'Sekai - deceiving consumers' angle people are trying to peddle.

@Scorp: As for the 'cropped CGs' business, it's honestly because most people don't care (unless it deletes important pieces of information.) 

[Scorp]

@Rooke, are you affiliated with Sekai? I believe if you sell a 18+ game and tell on item shop page "Unrated 18+ edition" it is intentional to confuse customers using that "unrated" word, to make customer think that game is uncensored, while it is not. I have no other explanation why to not tell "Censored with mosaics" and attach examples of h-scenes, which Mangagamer and Jast do. For "cropped" I just added that for completeness. People do not peddle anything, it is like there is no smoke without fire, not like poor defenseless dovac's company is victim here.

[RikiSanic]

Just for clarification, the page on Denpasoft does inform the consumer of mosaics.

 

[Scorp]

Just for clarification, the page on Denpasoft does inform the consumer of mosaics.

 

You can read what I told? Seems no. Reread please. This is quote from faq, not from the product page. You would not see this unless you're curious enough to click on faq section and open that. Simple marketing trick to sell "a bit" different product.

[Down]

I believe if you sell a 18+ game and tell on its page "Unrated 18+ edition" it is intentional to confuse them, that exact "unrated" word, to make customer think that game is uncensored, while it is not.

Considering someone who reaches the denpasoft page is a person who we can assume can read and understand the english language (although probably in a very crude way for some of them), can you explain me how would anyone think "unrated" means "uncensored"?

[RikiSanic]

I mean, if you're not curious enough to access a clearly-labeled FAQ with one click, you were never attempting to be an informed consumer to begin with.

[Yuuko]

I guess it's too hard for people to read what they are buying nowadays...

[Darklord Rooke]

I believe if you sell a 18+ game and tell on item shop page "Unrated 18+ edition" it is intentional to confuse customers using that "unrated" word, to make customer think that game is uncensored, while it is not.

There really is no way 'unrated' is related to 'uncensored', and there's no justification mixing the two. I'll prove it to you - type "define:unrated" into google, then type "define:uncensored" then maybe you can explain to me why people keep thinking they're the same when they clearly aren't.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Rooke