So, let's talk about the TPP and why it shouldn't go through

[Mugi]

For those of you who don't know, TPP stands for Trans-Pacific Partnership, and it's basically a big "fuck you" to just about every regular citizen in every country that it will apply to. We don't know all the details yet, but part of it was leaked to Wikileaks, and there are some pretty concerning things in here. First off, you'll probably want to stop pirating if this does go through, since companies will be able to force your ISP to give them information on people who pirate their work (something that doesn't happen very often, if at all currently, since it's actually pretty hard to trigger the three warning flags and have you get fined). The average citizen can get fined insane amounts of money, and even face jail time. Now I don't think this will mean a shit ton of people are going to get rekt with charges or anything, since not only is suing someone really expensive, but incarceration fees are insanely high as well. It just wouldn't be worth it to them. Another pretty concerning thing, maybe even more concerning given that most of us are anime/manga fans, is that you can get charged with a criminal offense for doing fansubs, making doujins, making AMV's, and even cosplaying. And the copyright holder doesn't even have to file a complaint, you will just get charged regardless if you are caught, even if the copyright holder doesn't care about it. Here is an article on that whole shabang: http://goboiano.com/original/3219-anime-and-cosplay-fans-could-become-criminals-with-new-international-trade-agreement

There is also something in the TPP that could raise health care and medicine prices, to the point where there might be a considerable amount of casualties just because people won't be able to afford the healthcare and medicine they need. Obviously there is a lot more to it, and we won't know all the information for about another month, but it isn't looking good at all. Anyways, I just wanted to spread the word about this ludicrous agreement, in hopes that more people will be vocal about it getting turned down. What do you guys think about this? Do you think it will go through? Sorry for the wall of text  

Edited October 14, 2015 by Mugi

[SpiduhBMX]

I really do think someone needs to make a really professional petition and start passing it around. We may not know what this TTP thing is fully about yet, but we need to start defending ourselves now, instead of waiting until it's too late.

[Narcosis]

Yet another desperate attempt of the dinosaur lobbyists to maintain their crumbling status quo. This will actually never get through, at least not fully. And even if it does, the outrage it causes afterwards will force them to change it preety soon.

[KuroganeHomura]

Yet another desperate attempt of the dinosaur lobbyists to maintain their crumbling status quo. This will actually never get through, at least not fully. And even if it does, the outrage it causes afterwards will force them to change it preety soon.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/24/barack-obama-fast-track-trade-deal-tpp-senate As it stands, it can only either pass or not pass. Though, of course, it could fail, get renegotiated, and then pass. Hopefully it'll just fail and then stay dead.

[Nimbus]

It's times like this I can't help but thinking the upper-class snobs are just daring us to start some kind of revolution. 

[Nosebleed]

Here's a more decentralized (and lengthier) version of the TPP so you can clearly comprehend the scope of the issue and how your animu is the least of your concerns. (most of this are x-posts from reddit and other sources)

By the way, this deal has already been agreed upon during a summit by all nations, including Japan, all that's left is for it to be agreed upon internally. This is when you really should push back against it.

What is the TPP?

The Trans-Pacific Partnership is a multi-layered deal whose particulars have just been agreed upon by the twelve participating countries. Its stated purpose is to reduce tariffs - taxes on bringing your goods into a country or sending them out - and therefore encourage industry by making it cheaper for importers and exporters to conduct business between these countries. Its other stated goal is to create a set of easy rules that businesses can live by when dealing between these countries.

The TPP is far more complex than that, however. Its subtextual function is to serve as a foundation from which to spread that set of easy rules to other Asian nations, with an eye to preventing China from setting standards among these countries first. The Obama administration is concerned that it's either "us or them" and that a Chinese-led trade agreement would set rules that American businesses would find problematic.

How does it affect you if you're in one of these countries?

A deal like the TPP involves identifying which tariffs affect market access and competition by creating a market that favors some producers over others instead of letting price, quality and consumer preference decide. For instance, it is very expensive to bring milk in to Canada, so even if you could sell your milk at a lower price, you will have to account for the cost of the tariffs, which will make your milk uncompetitive on the Canadian market. New Zealand and the US both want to see Canadian dairy tariffs lowered so that their milk producers can sell on the Canadian market more easily.

• When the market can decide and the barriers are down, we expect to see open markets offering more products/services than could previously have been made available. Prices should go down for certain products due to increased competition.

• A deal with as many players as the TPP rarely functions on one-to-one trades; instead, each party has a list of things that they want and needs to go shopping around to find ways to get their positions filled - a chain of deals wherein, for instance, Japan pressures Canada on the milk issue so that they can in turn see motion on their own priority, such as car parts. This is why the negotiations have taken so long.

• The TPP wants to standardize rules for trade among its participants, which cover a lot more than just tariffs and quotas. Other issues that have to be considered and negotiated include intellectual property rights and protections; rules regarding patents; environmental and labor regulations. In short, it tries to set standards on how business is conducted, both internationally and at home. It does this because uneven practices can result in uncompetitive market access.

• This standardization is hoped to improve labor and environmental laws across the board, as the need to conform forces countries that have been lagging behind in their standards to catch up with the rest of the group. By setting rules that apply equally to the US as to Malaysia, it is hoped that people will be better off and enjoy more protections in their working environment.

• To that end, the TPP will also have a process in place for what happens when someone breaks the rules - a tribunalwhich will decide based on terms laid out by the TPP instead of following the laws of any one government. This helps ensure that foreign companies are treated fairly and can conduct business under the same standards and with the same opportunities.

Tl;dr the TPP is out to make business between these 12 countries more fair, predictable and even. It should provide more choice in goods and services and more bang for your buck, while making labor standards improve for people outside of North America who may be operating under less protections than a Canadian or American enjoys.

What are the concerns?

• The TPP has been negotiated in heavy secrecy. While it's easy to see why keeping such a huge deal secret from the public is problematic, it is also reasonable for governments to work on negotiations and come to terms before letting elected officials decide if the end result is in the public interest. It lets others at the bargaining table know that what is said there won't be changed by a public opinion poll two days later, and it has been argued that such secrecy is therefore necessary to make these meetings work at all.

• The TPP has a scope that concerns many parties as it addresses trade and industry regulations on a 21st century scope - everything from upcoming cancer drugs to internet regulations to, yes, a cup of milk in Canada is all being covered by the same negotiation. It is a reasonable concern to say that the number of issues being covered in the same deal will make it hard for the public to reasonably read, understand and decide on.

• The removal of tariffs provides new foreign opportunities for business, but it also means that industries which rely on a protected domestic market will become exposed. It is not unreasonable to suggest that any given country is trading away the success of industry A for success in industry B, which, if all things are equal, should come down to a zero-sum game. Economics does not, of course, work like that, but it's still a fair question to examine.

• While supporters of the TPP say that it will encourage countries to improve their standards and reform, those elements are at their strongest during the negotiation - and the heat on issues such as human trafficking and human rights abuses have been sidelined as pressure to secure a deal of any kind has mounted on major nations facing upcoming elections. What should have been an opportunity to engage and demand reform as a condition of involvement in such a major global trade deal has been left by the wayside, a casualty of ambition.

What are the biggest issues?

• While the TPP has been kept secret from the public, large corporate interests have had a seat at the table throughout the process. These businesses have an obligation to make as much money as possible for their shareholders. This means that a great many of the deals that form the basis of the TPP have been negotiated with an eye to advantaging those businesses, potentially at the expense of the average citizen.

• "Free trade" as the TPP proposes is nothing new - globalization has already happened, and we are all the beneficiaries. What this deal will offer is not for the average citizen, who might see a few price differences on common products - it is for the large corporate interests who will have more freedom to move jobs and production to areas where it is cheaper to conduct business.

• There should be no such areas within the TPP zone, but part of the negotiation involves exceptions in place specifically to help these companies. The consistent standards that the TPP desires to set? Corporations would like to see those standards lowered - it is in their best interest to have access to a labor, property and capital market where they pay the least amount of money to conduct their business.

• Tariffs exist in part to protect domestic industry - jobs - from the vagaries of a global market. If cheaper US milk is sold in Canada, Canadian milk producers will have to choose whether to sell their own products more cheaply or else close down and go out of business. If it is not possible for these farmers to sell at a lower price and still remain profitable, then that choice is not a choice at all.

• The TPP's intellectual property provisions, which have been the subject of several leaks, are harsher than existing law, a product (again) of corporate involvement in the deal. They aim to crack down on several ways people use intellectual property, fairly and otherwise, and their scope means there is significant possibility for abuse and harrassment.

• More damagingly, the TPP applies those laws to drugs with an eye to preventing cheaper medicine from being available on the market - products that by rights should be subject to competition as their prices are heavily inflated beyond the cost of production.

• The TPP will offer a method by which companies can attack laws that affect them, suing governments through a tribunal for such offenses as trying to protect youth from cigarette marketing images, trying to protect the environment from dangerous industrial contaminants, or even refusing to pass laws removing or suppressing regulations where beneficial to corporate activity. These are all issues that already happen under various trade deals.

• We, the public, and our elected representatives will not have a great deal of time or means to push back against this trade deal if we dislike it. The text will only be released when absolutely necessary (a period of 60 days in the US) and steps have already been taken to ensure that elected officials cannot muck about with the deal. While this is logical (it would not be fair to negotiate terms and then change them back at home without discussing it), it does mean that instead of being able to debate and dissect we're committed to an all-or-nothing deal.

What changes are being made to copyright law exactly?

The leaked U.S. IP chapter includes many detailed requirements that are more restrictive than current international standards, and would require significant changes to other countries’ copyright laws. These include obligations for countries to:

• Expand Copyright Terms: Create copyright terms well beyond the internationally agreed period in the 1994 Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS). The TPP could extend copyright term protections from life of the author + 50 years, to Life + 70 years for works created by individuals, and either 95 years after publication or 120 years after creation for corporate owned works (such as Mickey Mouse).

• Escalate Protections for DRM (aka Digital Locks): It will compel signatory nations to enact laws banning circumvention of digital locks (technological protection measures or TPMs) that mirror the DMCA and treat violation of the TPM provisions as a separate offense even when no copyright infringement is involved. This would require countries like New Zealand to completely rewrite its innovative 2008 copyright law, as well as override Australia’s carefully-crafted 2007 TPM regime exclusions for region-coding on movies on DVDs, video games, and players, and for embedded software in devices that restrict access to goods and services for the device—a thoughtful effort by Australian policy makers to avoid the pitfalls experienced with the US digital locks provisions. In the U.S., business competitors have used the DMCA to try to block printer cartridge refill services, competing garage door openers, and to lock mobile phones to particular network providers.

• Create New Threats for Journalists and Whistleblowers:Dangerously vague text on the misuse of trade secrets, which could be used to enact harsh criminal punishments against anyone who reveals or even accesses information through a "computer system" that is allegedly confidential.

• Enact a "Three-Step Test" Language That Puts Restrictions on Fair Use: The U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) is putting fair use at risk with restrictive language in the TPP's IP chapter. U.S. and Australia have proposed very restrictive text, while other countries such as Chile, New Zealand, and Malaysia, have proposed more flexible, user-friendly terms.

• Place Greater Liability on Internet Intermediaries: The TPP would force the adoption of the U.S. DMCA Internet intermediaries copyright safe harbor regime in its entirety. For example, this would require Chile to rewrite its forward-looking 2010 copyright law that currently establishes a judicial notice-and-takedown regime, which provides greater protection to Internet users’ expression and privacy than the DMCA.

• Adopt Heavy Criminal Sanctions: Adopt criminal sanctions for copyright infringement that is done without a commercial motivation. Users could be jailed or hit with debilitating fines over file sharing, and may have their property or domains seized even without a formal complaint from the copyright holder.

Tl;dr countries would have to abandon any efforts to learn from the mistakes of the United States and its experience with the DMCA over the last 16 years, and adopt many of the most controversial aspects of U.S. copyright law in their entirety. At the same time, the TPP's IP chapter does not export the limitations and exceptions in the U.S. copyright regime like fair use, which have enabled freedom of expression and technological innovation to flourish in the United States. It includes only a placeholder for exceptions and limitations. This raises serious concerns about other countries’ sovereignty and the ability of national governments to set laws and policies to meet their domestic priorities.

I'm not in any of these 12 countries, should I care?

The TPP will affect countries beyond the 12 that are currently involved in negotiations. Like ACTA, the TPP Agreement is a plurilateral agreement that will be used to create new heightened global IP enforcement norms. Countries that are not parties to the negotiation will likely be asked to accede to the TPP as a condition of bilateral trade agreements with the U.S. and other TPP members, or evaluated against the TPP's copyright enforcement standards in the USTR's annual Special 301 process.

This is terrible, what can I do?

If you're in any of the participating nations, the first thing you can do is contact your local lawmakers and ask to speak out against this agreement.

If you're in the US, on top of talking to your local lawmakers you can also join the EFF's rally against the TPP in Washington DC on November 14th through November 18th.

If you're in Canada, you can use the Council of Canadians' tool to send a message to your international trade minister and members of the parliamentary trade committee to release the secret TPP text and negotiate the deal with proper public input.

If you're in Australia, you can use GetUp!'s action too tocontact your senator and call on them to oppose the agreement in the Senate.

If you're in Chile, you can join the ONG Derechos Digitales campaign against the TPP!

If you're in Peru, spread the word as much as possible and contact  organizations that are already against this.

If you're in Japan, you can read information in the Stop TPP!! website.

[Mugi]

@Nosebleed Thanks for all of that information, but i'm curious about part of the copyright section. Are they only going after people sharing files? The source you listed makes it sound like things aren't really changing much, it's just you have a higher chance of getting nailed for sharing stuff. Also i'm curious if this is going to effect people who have pirated prior to this being passed. I guess what i'm asking is, what are the chances of the average person getting nailed by the government if this passes?

Edited October 14, 2015 by Mugi

[Narcosis]

TPP might actually kill off the whole doujin industry, if Japan won't speak against it.

[Nosebleed]

@Nosebleed Thanks for all of that information, but i'm curious about part of the copyright section. Are they only going after people sharing files? The source you listed makes it sound like things aren't really changing much, it's just you have a higher chance of getting nailed for sharing stuff. Also i'm curious if this is going to effect people who have pirated prior to this being passed. I guess what i'm asking is, what are the chances of the average person getting nailed by the government if this passes?

Your liability for downloading things increases, especially because companies can ask your ISP for your info and you wouldn't be able to do anything against it. In fact, the main difference would be that ISPs are incentivized to give companies your information and police whatever you do.

These are the main changes:

• Three-strikes policies and laws that require Internet intermediaries to terminate their users’ Internet access on repeat allegations of copyright infringement
• Requirements for Internet intermediaries to filter all Internet communications for potentially copyright-infringing material
• ISP obligations to block access to websites that allegedly infringe or facilitate copyright infringement
• Efforts to force intermediaries to disclose the identities of their customers to IP rightsholders on an allegation of copyright infringement.  

You're also liable for circumventing any and all kinds of DRM, so all those cracks people make for games? That becomes criminal (criminal is worse than simply illegal since it can get you in jail).

Lastly, your property can also be seized if you're found to be under a copyright infrigement claim.

The TPP's copyright provisions even require countries to enable judges to unilaterally order the seizure, destruction, or forfeiture of anything that can be "traceable to infringing activity", has been used in the "creation of pirated copyright goods", or is "documentary evidence relevant to the alleged offense". Under such obligations, law enforcement could become ever more empowered to seize laptops, servers, or even domain names.

Domain name seizure in the name of copyright enforcement is not new to us in the US, nor to people running websites from abroad. But these provisions open the door to the passage of ever more oppressive measures to enable governments to get an order from a judge to seize websites and devices. The provision also says that the government can act even without a formal complaint from the copyright holder. So in places where the government chooses to use the force of copyright to censor its critics, this could be even more disastrous.

 Lengthier sources:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/02/go-prison-sharing-files-thats-what-hollywood-wants-secret-tpp-deal
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/tpp-creates-liabilities-isps-and-put-your-rights-risk

 

[KuroganeHomura]

One more from the EFF https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/10/final-leaked-tpp-text-all-we-feared.

As far as I'm concerned, the biggest problem is that prosecuting doujins etc. will be possible without a complaint from the rights holder. The other related stuff is essentially circumventable via the usual means, i.e. throwing more encryption at the problem. Use Tor, use I2P, whatever. It sucks, but you can deal with it.

That, however, is a problem you can't deal with so easily. The whole doujin industry relies on a sort of silent agreement - I won't fuck you, you won't fuck me. This threatens to destroy that agreement, because a third party can interfere.

[Nosebleed]

Well, as I digged through info on the TPP earlier, it was brought to my attention that a TPP for Europe is actually being discussed right now, although it's called Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), and as the name indicates, it involves the US (but of course) and all of the EU.

While the TTIP does not yet have clauses regarding copyright laws and the interwebs, the business side of it is still just as shitty, if not worse, than the TPP.
A really brief version of what this deal could mean is, essentially, all your public services could now, more than ever, be at risk of privatization, and on top of that, regulations made within your country would be obligated to bring companies onto the decisions, and these companies can sue your country if they don't like your laws. Basically, your country becomes a slave to corporations more than ever.

Over 3 million Europeans have signed a petition against this retardation, you can also do so here: https://stop-ttip.org/

There have been tons of protests all over Europe against this, most noticably in Germany where over 250,000 people rallied against it. Yet the media has barely covered it.
And worst of all, the person directly in charge of this seems mostly unfazed.

It sure is a shitty day to live in this Earth.

[Mugi]

@Nosebleed What is your opinion on whether or not they will start going after people who downloaded before the thing passes? Are they going to just go after every person who has pirated in the past? Will anyone who has cracked a game/VN in the past get raped in jail now?

[Nosebleed]

@Nosebleed What is your opinion on whether or not they will start going after people who downloaded before the thing passes? Are they going to just go after every person who has pirated in the past? Will anyone who has cracked a game/VN in the past get raped in jail now?

Hard to say, that's the problem with how vague the whole thing is, they don't specify how they plan on going after people/websites, but one thing is clear, if you somehow end up in a copyright infrigement allegation, with these new laws, you could be in serious troubles more than ever.

[Helvetica Standard]

well, let's assume this BS passes.
Do you think pirates can't find a simple workaround like they have done for decades? XD
Spooffing IPs is still pretty simple and setting up a dedicated VPN is enough to mask your info even if your ISP leaks your browsing history and downloads list.

Of course this would still screw regular non-pirate savvy ppl.

[CeruleanGamer]

If this passes, might as well ban the whole internet like those two feminist retards are proposing.

 

And how about cases of people sharing pictures and stuff on social media? Is this TTP bullshit going to go after them too?

Edited October 14, 2015 by CeruleanGamer

[periah250]

almost a TB of games gone if this passes oh and what do you know no more fansubs...let me make this very clear this thing passes I'm starting a riot, no a rebellion a whole nationwide coup d'etat.

[Mugi]

If this passes, might as well ban the whole internet like those two feminist retards are proposing.

 

And how about cases of people sharing pictures and stuff on social media? Is this TTP bullshit going to go after them too?

Technically, yes. This does go after people that share photos without the copyright holders consent, and people that make fan art and share it.

[Mugi]

http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/columnists/gary-lamphier-tpp-trade-deal-looks-dead-on-arrival

This should qualm any fears one might have about the TPP getting passed. Seems to be highly unlikely now.

[Redpanda]

Reminds me of SOPA they tried to pass a few years back.

This generation is barely making out of the government's plans to privatize everything (especially the internet) and censor freedom of speech. I can only imagine what the next generation has to go through now that they start exploiting loopholes of consumer friendly principles.

Ever since the creation of East India Company by the British Crown, corporations have found solid precedence for big businesses today. From the Industrial Age to the Information Age, we can connect and communicate with the ever increasing convenience. Digital revolution opened a whole new realm for humans to explore and experiment within or, possibly, beyond our capabilities. But now the oligarchy wants to capitalize all that into individual ownership rather than a public one and the mass being aware of that just chooses to ignore it and let the activists take action.

For all I know, this world is finished. So long liberty, as you become more of an illusion than an idea of our fundamental birthright by our own fault. I would've preferred a full-scale nuclear warfare from the Cuban Missile Crisis incident rather than us living in an Orwellian dystopia in the near future.

Might as well be a cyber vigilante by now if we are waiting for one of our greatest invention and means of communication (i.e. the internet) to get censored and owned completely.

[Mugi]

I feel like even if the TPP does come to pass, these copyright laws still won't do much in terms of people pirating and getting in trouble for it. I mean technically, they are no different from how they are now. I mean, if a company really wanted to sue you they could easily do it. These laws aren't going to change the fact that tens of millions of people download pirated content, and that there's no way to get all of them. I guess I could see them making an example out of some uploaders or something though.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Mugi

[Helvetica Standard]

Might as well be a cyber vigilante by now if we are waiting for one of our greatest invention and means of communication (i.e. the internet) to get censored and owned completely.

 

Ok. you gotta stop reading post-apocalyptic, dystopian future, sci-fi novels. XD

Sadly reality is more boring than fiction and someone owning the internet anytime soon is a tall order.

The repercussions of censoring all forms of free speech and expression would trigger your belated war anyway. XD

[CeruleanGamer]

http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/columnists/gary-lamphier-tpp-trade-deal-looks-dead-on-arrival

This should qualm any fears one might have about the TPP getting passed. Seems to be highly unlikely now.

Nice. Last thing we need are stupid old politicians who probably don't even know what the internet is making laws that they claim to "protect" intellectual property (full of bs) and taking away our basic freedoms of usage from it.

Edited October 15, 2015 by CeruleanGamer

[Narcosis]

TPP is just another take to ressurect SOPA and that wasn't new, either; it's been like that for ages. Lobbyist parties trying, failing and re-enacting their projects under different names. Luckily, not everyone is as stupid as they think we are.

[Funyarinpa]

It's times like this I can't help but thinking the upper-class snobs are just daring us to start some kind of revolution. 

Am upper-class snob, can confirm that I am buying none of this bullshit. 

Also, what's so bad about privatization in a nutshell? (Sorry, don't know much about it :s ) 

[Nosebleed]

Privatization means that a sector that was once owned by the state (public sector), and thus created profit for said state, is sold off to a privately owned corporation.

Typically terms are created so that the state still generates some profit, and the sector is usually never sold in its entirety.

Why is it good?

Quick way to turn in a profit, especially if a sector is doing poorly or causing losses.

Why is it bad?

While the short term benefits are apparent, long term it usually ends up causing losses for everyone because:

1) Eventually the capital the state made with the sale will run out and then they're no longer profiting off that sector, meaning that long term the problem was not fixed. Governments make you believe they'll properly invest the money they made, but it usually goes to pay off debts

2) Privately owned companies tend to buy cheaper work whenever they can, and for a sector that was once public, this usually means firing a lot of the previously existing workforce, lowering salaries and outsourcing a lot of the work to cheaper places like China. Thus creating more unemployment.

3) Private sectors make their own rules and a sector that was once under state regulation now becomes subject to the wills and whims of corporation owners. 

The TPP essentially makes it even easier for a company to abuse their power in sectors they own, this could heavily impact the lives of all the people currently employed in all these countries and the countries wouldn't even be able to fight back.

Let this be clear: the TPP is made by companies, for companies, and you do NOT benefit from it.