onomatope*'s lastest title - Kyuuketsuki no Libra - is coming to Steam

[MiKandi Japan]

Any established VN fan is already accustomed to the PC as the dominant VN platform.  Obviously if you ask at a place like the NISA forums you'll get a different response.  They have a VN thread there if you want to stop by and see what they have to say.

http://nisamerica.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14120&start=1020

Thanks sanahtlig!

 

I don't have a Vita so I don't care

:-P

[CeruleanGamer]

Youre doing the game injustice if you play Libra on a damn small Vita screen. One thing for damn sure. I am not playing this game with less than 1920x1080 resolution. I want to see my waifus Aoi and Lycoris in all their glamour and glory.

Edited November 21, 2015 by CeruleanGamer

[Silvz]

I don't see the need of a Vita port. However, if the demand is enough to pay the costs of it, why not do it? I even think an Android port is better than Vita.

[MiKandi Japan]

Quick update! We've just released our first translated gameplay video for Libra. Please check it out when you have a chance. More clips are coming soon. Enjoy!

 

[Deep Blue]

I love the です there   although I'm sure many will complain about it (hope I'm wrong)

[Kawasumi]

I love the です there   although I'm sure many will complain about it (hope I'm wrong)

です, confusing weeaboos grammatically since 2004

[Decay]

Well, they're going to edit it out, right? I mean, you can't possibly leave the final product to be like that, right??

[Deep Blue]

I love the です there   although I'm sure many will complain about it (hope I'm wrong)

です, confusing weeaboos grammatically since 2004

そうですね btw irisu reminds me a lot to akane from rewrite 

[MiKandi Japan]

We anticipated that including desu would raise some questions . To be honest, I was curious myself after I'd seen a couple drafts of the translation. So we brought it up to our veteran translators and asked them why they were adding the desu. After a lengthy discussion, they all commented that this stood out as a character trait (a cute and peculiar one I'd imagine) of Lycoris's. So, this is why we've decided to include it.

[Decay]

Whatever character trait you're supposed to be representing by leaving that in completely fails to come across in the english script. When used like that in english, it's just a complete nonsense word that doesn't give us any insight into that girl's character at all. There are many characters in anime and VNs with this verbal tick, yet this is literally the first time I have seen a professional company translate it in this kind of way. It's honestly a baffling decision.

[Deep Blue]

I like it, is like makina on grisaia when she says all the time なのよさ at the end of the sentences, there is no real translation for that(it was lost on the translation) neither for this desu. Personally I think is really charming, but like I said not everyone is going to like it.

[Decay]

If you want to get the full characterization in any Japanese game, the only real solution is to read it in Japanese. Desu is one of those things that will just always be lost in translation, we should just accept that. This is a really terrible solution to the problem in my opinion. Again, this is the first time I've ever seen any professionals do this because it's usually obvious that you shouldn't. Expect to get a LOT of pushback for this.

[Darklord Rooke]

Whether it’s fine translation philosophy depends on whether it's explained.

The word ‘desu’ may convey a speech quirk of a character, unfortunately you are translating the game for an English audience and English speakers have no clue what the word means. Therefore the trait you are trying to convey will be overlooked by the audience you’re targeting. In other words, including a word which has no meaning is akin to leaving it out altogether, except you add a little bit of confusion to the pot as well. Deep Blue is fine with it because he has knowledge of Japanese, this is not your target audience.

There are two ways to go about things. The first is to leave the Japanese word in, but explain it either in game or in footnotes. I keep saying this, and I’ll continue to say it over and over, every single professional literal translation is accompanied by hundreds of footnotes. Every single one. You cannot do literal without explanations – at least not in any credible way. I’m looking at literally translated literature as we speak and there’s a massive number of footnotes. P&V would take a Russian book, leave a paragraph in French for authenticity purposes, but translate it into English in the footnotes. If you don’t explain these foreign terms that are unfamiliar to the English speaking audience, it’s just poor translation philosophy.

The other way is to localise things. I’m fine with either method what I’m NOT fine with is having to look stuff up on google every couple of minutes because somebody littered the story with Japanese words and concepts and didn’t include footnotes, that’s NOT cool. And I just looked up ‘desu’ on google, and I still don’t understand what quirk it’s meant to convey. I really don’t have the time to hunt this down purely because I want to read a story.

So your translation is fine if the word is explained to the English audience. I’ve been watching anime and reading translated VNs for 20 years, and I have no clue what ‘desu’ is outside of ‘it’s a speech quirk.’ So all you’re conveying to me is the character speaks with a quirk. Unfortunately most people speak with a quirk so that’s some pretty useless information there. It may signify ‘cute and peculiar’ to Japanese speakers, but it just signifies ‘foreign’ to me.

Case in point, the lady who talks in short sentences. That’s an interesting quirk right there, intentional? Feel free not to answer, just something I noticed. I don't know if you're getting the desired effect there, early on her dialogue read a but like bullet points. Not really important though. But it's a quirk, and it's a quirk I can understand because you used techniques familiar to English audiences.

I like it, is like makina on grisaia when she says all the time なのよさ at the end of the sentences, there is no real translation for that(it was lost on the translation) neither for this desu. Personally I think is really charming, but like I said not everyone is going to like it.

The way to localise this is NOT to try for a one-to-one substitution. You identify what the word actually does, you identify the tonal change it gives the character speech, and you look for a technique in the English language that affects speech in similar ways. This will most likely NOT be a word you tack onto the end of sentences because of how different the languages are, and it could change case by case. There are many ways to characterise ‘cute' and a gazilliion ways to characterise 'peculiar’ in English, you pick the way which closely approximates the desired effect.

PS: To anybody who thinks my tone is confrontational in forum posts, it's not meant to be, I'm doing a few things at the same time and this is my 'business' tone.

[Deep Blue]

I think you need to address the じーっ thing and add something like "staaaaaaaaaare" because that is in fact something that not many will understand if you don't know some japanese and adds a lot to the scene (in a funny way) just like they did with the  びくびく

Whether it’s fine translation philosophy depends on whether it's explained.

The word ‘desu’ may convey a speech quirk of a character, unfortunately you are translating the game for an English audience and English speakers have no clue what the word means. Therefore the trait you are trying to convey will be overlooked by the audience you’re targeting. In other words, including a word which has no meaning is akin to leaving it out altogether, except you add a little bit of confusion to the pot as well. Deep Blue is fine with it because he has knowledge of Japanese, this is not your target audience.

There are two ways to go about things. The first is to leave the Japanese word in, but explain it either in game or in footnotes. I keep saying this, and I’ll continue to say it over and over, every single professional literal translation is accompanied by hundreds of footnotes. Every single one. You cannot do literal without explanations – at least not in any credible way. I’m looking at literally translated literature as we speak and there’s a massive number of footnotes. P&V would take a Russian book, leave a paragraph in French for authenticity purposes, but translate it into English in the footnotes. If you don’t explain these foreign terms that are unfamiliar to the English speaking audience, it’s just poor translation philosophy.

The other way is to localise things. I’m fine with either method what I’m NOT fine with is having to look stuff up on google every couple of minutes because somebody littered the story with Japanese words and concepts and didn’t include footnotes, that’s NOT cool. And I just looked up ‘desu’ on google, and I still don’t understand what quirk it’s meant to convey. I really don’t have the time to hunt this down purely because I want to read a story.

So your translation is fine if the word is explained to the English audience. I’ve been watching anime and reading translated VNs for 20 years, and I have no clue what ‘desu’ is outside of ‘it’s a speech quirk.’ So all you’re conveying to me is the character speaks with a quirk. Unfortunately most people speak with a quirk so that’s some pretty useless information there. It may signify ‘cute and peculiar’ to Japanese speakers, but it just signifies ‘foreign’ to me.

Case in point, the lady who talks in short sentences. That’s an interesting quirk right there, intentional? Feel free not to answer, just something I noticed. I don't know if you're getting the desired effect there, early on her dialogue read a but like bullet points. Not really important though. But it's a quirk, and it's a quirk I can understand because you used techniques familiar to English audiences.

I like it, is like makina on grisaia when she says all the time なのよさ at the end of the sentences, there is no real translation for that(it was lost on the translation) neither for this desu. Personally I think is really charming, but like I said not everyone is going to like it.

The way to localise this is NOT to try for a one-to-one substitution. You identify what the word actually does, you identify the tonal change it gives the character speech, and you look for a technique in the English language that affects speech in similar ways. This will most likely NOT be a word you tack onto the end of sentences because of how different the languages are, and it could change case by case. There are many ways to characterise ‘cute' and a gazilliion ways to characterise 'peculiar’ in English, you pick the way which closely approximates the desired effect.

PS: To anybody who thinks my tone is confrontational in forum posts, it's not meant to be, I'm doing a few things at the same time and this is my 'business' tone.

 

I did say it was my personal opinion that it was a charming thing for her to say, I also did state that I was sure not everyone was going to like it. 

Probably you are right, they shouldn't target people with some understanding on the language (like me) they shouldn't take this types of things for granted, like the knowledge of the word "desu" but even so I think that "westernizing" a character or the translation itself is the complete opposite to this and equally harmful, like dropping honorific, changing the uses of surnames for names or even adding english traits to a character that doesn't have them in the first place, you are basically rewriting a character just to appeal to another audience. 
The best solution for this in my opinion is to add some kind of "encyclopedia" like clannad did recently or steins;gate etc etc, an easier way to do this is to add footnotes but again footnotes are not always welcomed by many readers.

In the end you can't please everyone.

 

 

[KuroganeHomura]

The experience of reading a translation should be as close as possible to that of reading the original, without requiring knowledge of the original language. Ask yourself whether the Japanese readers need footnotes to understand what they're reading.

I won't say adding TL notes is bad in and of itself, particularly if a work has a lot of references to stuff specific to a certain culture. Food, historical events, mythology and such. But generally speaking, that should be supplementary material.

[Darklord Rooke]

 The best solution for this in my opinion is to add some kind of "encyclopedia" like clannad did recently or steins;gate etc etc, an easier way to do this is to add footnotes but again footnotes are not always welcomed by many readers.

I will say that the most elegant way I've seen of incorporating footnotes in a VN is by having certain words in the text a different colour. Then when the reader hovers their mouse over that word, an explanation pops up. I thought it really took advantage of technology to provide a way to include footnotes with minimal disruption to the reader's immersion. Can't remember what VN it was, but the method stuck with me.

I wouldn’t know how popular footnotes are, that’s where market research comes into play. 

[Deep Blue]

I have seen many maaaany users in this forum complaining about footnotes in the past and even asking for a way to turn them off completely. 

[MiKandi Japan]

Whatever character trait you're supposed to be representing by leaving that in completely fails to come across in the english script. When used like that in english, it's just a complete nonsense word that doesn't give us any insight into that girl's character at all. There are many characters in anime and VNs with this verbal tick, yet this is literally the first time I have seen a professional company translate it in this kind of way. It's honestly a baffling decision.

Hi Decay,

Thanks for raising this concern. I passed along your comments to the lead translators and we discussed it further over the phone.

Could you (or others) point out some specific examples where a tick like this has been dealt with in a way you think worked out well for the audience? We are willing to listen and adjust as we build up each character's profile for this translation.

So far...

• Deep Blue gives it a +1 for charm points, but admits others may not like it.
• As Rooke stated, we could add footnotes.
• We could try to find something similar in English, like repeating the last word... "Yes, yes" or "Understood, understood"
• We could remove it and ignore it, players who like it can still hear it if they pay attention to the voices

Thanks,

James - Project Manager

 

[Darklord Rooke]

Could you (or others) point out some specific examples where a tick like this has been dealt with in a way you think worked out well for the audience? We are willing to listen and adjust as we build up each character's profile for this translation.

That's pretty difficult for English only speakers because localised anime don't include them and so we don't know when they've been omitted and changed. Only one example leaps immediately to mind, and it was in a very well received anime in the West. I don't know how well it was translated though.

So, Rurouni Kenshin the anime. Kenshin in wanderer form would have 'de gozaru' tacked onto the end of some of his lines, and the dub would localise his lines in a very wordy, formal, polite manner and then, just for good measure, stick 'that he would', 'that he would not', as a direct replacement. I've mentioned above that I'm not a fan of 'direct replacements', but the localisers did it and the fans were happy ... although people with knowledge of Japanese obviously weren't[1]. It should be noted that this was back when anime translations weren't as sophisticated, and the lack of such obvious inclusions in recent anime localisations means they've progressed past this imo. Alternatively, it might just mean I'm out of the loop concerning anime.

Kenshin - this is not the battle I can continue to avoid in my lifetime that it is not.

Kenshin - father did not want you to protect his teachings if it meant losing your life--that he did not.

Unfortunately I chucked the DVDs a long time ago (don't enjoy much shounen these days) so I have to rely on crappy internet transcripts of what the dubbing contained. The manga translated 'Sessha' to 'This one', although not the anime I think. Anyway Kenshin had some archaicly formal add-ons that must have caused the translators a headache or two. The public received it well (although the English voice acting... not so much.)

[1]But they're never happy because nothing can capture the original feel of the original, that's a common feeling in translation communities going back a hundred years and more.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Rooke

[Deep Blue]

I don't think English readers would appreciate nor enjoy repetition, in Japanese is a common thing to repeat something, I was reading a novel the other day where they literally repeated たとえば (for example) 10 times in a row, write "for example" 4 times in a row in english and I assure you that you will hear some curses because is a sign of poor writing.

Also the japanese it's a language where you constantly use words to give emphasis to what you are saying again this doesn't happen in the English language, how do you translate the desu? I've seen a lot of novels where they replace a foreigner word with another foreigner word, like if the character is saying "goodbye" they translate it as "adios" but this is not a word but something different so I don't know if it works doing that.

This is just a silly idea but when she says "hai desu" maybe translate it as something like "yes, ciertamente"(certainly) "yes sir, desu" to " yes sir, enseguida!(at once)" it gets trickier when you have in the same sentences the desu twice like with "了解なのです" and  ".....だったのです" but by doing this it seems like you are repeating the same mistake so i dont know, I will try to spot something while reading a vn.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Deep Blue

[Darklord Rooke]

A rather famous example is Rozen Maiden's Suiseiseki with "desu" (former poster girl of this trope)... In the dub, her "desu" tic is swapped out for using "so" as an intensifier, as in, "We so must hurry!" or, "I SOOOOOOOOOO... have arrived!

I'm not sure how I feel about this, but there you go. It does create a character quirk, I have no idea if it accurately approximated the specific quirk in question.

Nazo Koumori (or Kou-chan for short) uses the variation "-de kyuu" (which is like a bat squealing) and "-Whee~" in the dubbed version.

Belbel, Beth's assistant in Petite Princess Yucie, very classically ends every sentence with "desu". In the English dub, she ends with a quick 'yes!' every so often.

This page has a lot of anime characters saying 'desu', but it seems a lot of the English dubs just drop it. Without seeing the dubs in question, I'm thinking most dubs may strive to emulate the effect of that quirk in ways other than a direct replacement. That's just a guess though.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VerbalTic/AnimeAndManga 

[Decay]

This is just a silly idea but when she says "hai desu" maybe translate it as something like "yes, ciertamente"(certainly) "yes sir, desu" to " yes sir, enseguida!(at once)" it gets trickier when you have in the same sentences the desu twice like with "了解なのです" and  ".....だったのです" but by doing this it seems like you are repeating the same mistake so i dont know, I will try to spot something while reading a vn.

This makes her sound really subservient which is probably not what you want. 

[KuroganeHomura]

Higurashi has a decent amount of this and other ticks in it, iirc, both the VN and the anime. Forgot how they were handled in the respective translations, though.

[Satsuki]

I'm totally fine with keeping that. I mean, it's an English translation, doesn't mean we have to try so hard to translate everything into English, even the untranslatable ones. That's almost a "trait" of the character, so there is just no reason to cut it off or change it into some weird English words that cannot sound dumber. And seriously though, is there anyone here who doesn't know about the word "desu"? Hell, if anyone here follows Umaru manga, you will see that readers even demanded the translation group to include "desuwa" in Sylphi's lines.

Rozen Maiden dub was horrible, btw.

[Decay]

There are quite a few people who don't know what desu means. Rooke, for an example. Me, to be honest, until I looked it up today. And probably there's probably a whole lot more who haven't been watching anime for 15-20 years like me and Rooke. You should translate as much as you possibly can. And if something can't be translated, then I don't believe it should be kept in completely untranslated. Honorifics you can get away with if you can expect the audience to understand them, but this isn't one of those situations. In my eyes, the annoyance of having untranslated words appended to many sentence and the confusion you could cause for a lot of people would far outweigh the positive of transferring a verbal tic over to the english script. Also, manga scanlations are usually horrible and I'm not sure what to think of one leaving in desuwa because some hardcore fans demanded it. 

Anyways, they were asking for examples. Grisaia no Kajitsu's Makina has a couple odd verbal habits, one of which is the desu thing. I believe she also sometimes has pretty childish speech patterns in general. In the translation for the VN, her speech was translated in a very unique way. I can't say if it was fully accurate, in fact some people have voiced complaints that the translator has taken too many liberties, but I absolutely love the end result. Her speech was truly different from everyone else's.

 

 

That's on the mild end of the spectrum as far as her dialog goes. I don't have time to grab screenshots of some of her more extreme lines.