mitchhamilton Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 on reddit i got on the topic of a certain section in chris's route with another user and argued with him about it. after this happened i got curious on what people thought of it here. also this was on the visual novel subreddit. before i go on let me say from this point on, there will be spoilers for solely Chris's route. so the argument was, Yamato basically raping chris. i guess i can see why he would see it this way as you begin doing sexual acts on a tied up girl whos asking you to stop. my arguement was, it didnt take long after for her to consent, implying that there was a part of her that wanted it and this infuriated the other user. im beginning to think visual novels are beginning to change my perspective on certain matters since im not bothered by any of this. its either that are i am messed up and havent realized it. but before i commit myself (again) i would like to know what you guys think. also, i might have really wanted Chris to be ravaged after i found out she's voiced by the same adorable voice actress who did that one dark haired senpai in Amagami, and the voice of Kozue-nee-san from Wagnaria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astro Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 It was rape and that's why it was hot Kosakyun, CeruleanGamer, LiquidShu and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Never played the game, but sounds like the typical initial rape that eventually turns into the girl begging for more. Sorry to break it to you, but that's still rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiddle Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Nosebleed, Zenophilious, Vorathiel and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 It's rape. Remember that "yeah but his amazing japanese penis makes her like it in the end" is just completely arbitrary to the author. If you take a step back the author depicts rape then proceed to trivialize it by depicting her ending up liking it, which I find even more hypocritical. As for the part where you wonder if you're messed up, probably not. Reading eroge makes you shock-proof for a lot of things and clearly there are IRL people who don't understand it's not rape either, which is an issue but at least you ask yourself the question. Suzu Fanatic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasDice Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 It's fine, his dad did it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzu Fanatic Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 No means no - her "getting into it" is just heat of the moment. A body can't help but feel good when stimulated, even if it's against a persons will. It's like when you put food in your mouth, you can't help but taste it. The fact she has feelings for him probably play a part in it, but at that point I consider it emotional manipulation as well as rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 No means no - her "getting into it" is just heat of the moment. A body can't help but feel good when stimulated, even if it's against a persons will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzu Fanatic Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I agree with this but I don't think it applies to this case. This is essentially eroge's way of making rape "not as bad", by telling us the girl actually somehow has feelings for the perpetrator, even after being raped, something which is just unrealistic to think of, it has nothing to do with her getting into it because magical penis juices, it's really just bad writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Makes me think of it as a prettied-up, small version of Stockholm syndrome. Suzu Fanatic and yvetox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjriedstra Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I discussed this exact topic a couple of days ago in the A-1 translation thread. It's a bizarre example of a ludicrously unlikely nukige scene being snuck into the middle of what is otherwise a story-based, character-based game. As such, it's really jarring in my opinion. Even outside of the obvious illegalities, the way every character in the story (including Chris) acts as if it's pretty normal afterward is mind boggling, and not really in keeping with the tone of any other aspect of the game or the other routes. Almost all of the stories center around friendship, close bonds, and protecting those important to you, and this goes completely counter to those principles. I like Yamato, who I think is generally a lot more interesting than most protagonists, but in order to maintain that mentality I've had to pretty much pretend that scene doesn't exist. nohman and OrpheusReigns 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nohman Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Pretty much what mjriedstra said above. Tops my list of why Chris' route ended up being my least favorite in the game. The whole thing kinda comes out of nowhere, seems out of character, and really takes you out of it. Then again, it is a Chinese powerpoint game. I don't know why I was surprised it had its share of h-logic™. OriginalRen and Kosakyun 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuee Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 But when you tell me that the heroine suddenly became okay with being raped because "glorious nippon dick", then you lose my interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxczen Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 It's rape however you look at it. You could say that Chris didn't want to accept it at first because she's a tsundere, but still, it's rape and Yamato took responsibility for it, so it's kinda okay-ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinalChaos Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 We were just having the same discussion so you should check it out. /topic/11363-majikoi-a-1-translation-project-discussion/page-6">http://forums.fuwanovel.net/topic/11363-majikoi-a-1-translation-project-discussion/page-6 And I would like to say that this scene is definitely not your typical rape scene found in nukiges, so I would recommend reading that particular scene before commenting. As for myself, no I don't categorize it as rape. The whole atmosphere from the start and the intent behind it is just too unfitting for rape. Seriously if you just remove that starting part(where he ties her up with a towel(a martial artist is bound by a towel and a normal guy rapes her yep total sense)) no one would even notice the fact that it's supposed to be 'rape'. Edit- I just reread that scene, Chris only resists at the very start, Yamato forces in like 3 kisses and she has already stopped resisting. She stops resisting even before they have sex so calling it rape is pushing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzu Fanatic Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Someone says no, you stop. End of discussion. And you and I must have different versions, she was clearly unwilling when he penetrated her. Furthermore, his mindset and plan of "I will force her to stay, by any means" by itself is selfish, and manipulative. And finally, "if you just remove that starting part" ...yeah, just like how "it's not murder if the victim survives" huh? Sorry to break it to you, but no matter how people view the scene, she was tied up and fondled even before she was awake. I know it's a inconvenient truth, but that's what the author wrote~ She would have kicked his ass if she hadn't been tied up - you can try and argue she could undo the bindings because she's a "martial artist", but do you think she had much training in being tied up? Consider the fact she relies on speed over strength. Also, there are many ways to incapacitate a skilled and powerful individual if they have no leverage. And regardless of the method, the intent is what is at fault. Sex between two consenting people is one thing - but the moment one willingly exerts their will over another - even if it's "just at the start" - it tramples on the will of the other. Even if the offender thinks they know what the other really wants, it's not the offenders place to make that decision. The end does not justify the means. oxczen and Fred the Barber 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalRen Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Then again, it is a Chinese powerpoint game. I don't know why I was surprised it had its share of h-logic™. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Chris only resists at the very start, Yamato forces in like 3 kisses and she has already stopped resisting. She stops resisting even before they have sex so calling it rape is pushing it. Resistance is not a requirement for rape, and saying a woman must resist for it to be considered rape is an extremely scary idea. Fred the Barber, Suzu Fanatic and yvetox 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinalChaos Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Resistance is not a requirement for rape, and saying a woman must resist for it to be considered rape is an extremely scary idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jun Inoue Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Chris' h-scene is pure, simple rape only if you ignore basically everything that has been going on the whole route. Otherwise, it's a super grey-ish scene that can't just be simplified with a "there was no consense so it's rape yes or yes". That scene has way more conflict in the image of old Chris vs new Chris than about the sexual act itself. But it's something very difficult to see if you are obsessed with the idea that considering (not accepting, but considering) that maybe it was not a scene of simple rape will make you automatically into a sick pro-rape monster. on reddit i got on the topic of a certain section in chris's route with another user and argued with him about it. after this happened i got curious on what people thought of it here. also this was on the visual novel subreddit. before i go on let me say from this point on, there will be spoilers for solely Chris's route. so the argument was, Yamato basically raping chris. i guess i can see why he would see it this way as you begin doing sexual acts on a tied up girl whos asking you to stop. my arguement was, it didnt take long after for her to consent, implying that there was a part of her that wanted it and this infuriated the other user. im beginning to think visual novels are beginning to change my perspective on certain matters since im not bothered by any of this. its either that are i am messed up and havent realized it. but before i commit myself (again) i would like to know what you guys think. also, i might have really wanted Chris to be ravaged after i found out she's voiced by the same adorable voice actress who did that one dark haired senpai in Amagami, and the voice of Kozue-nee-san from Wagnaria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdarkpaladin Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I agree that Yamato should be considered as intended or attempted to rape Chris in that scene. However, i think we should take into consideration the principle of ratification and consider whether at the end of the deed, did Chris chose to accept Yamoto's action as an acceptable one. If she does not accept it, it should be considered rape as it is performed without her consent. If she ratified the act, she basically post-consented to the act. That is not to say that it should not be considered rape, it is in such a fine line that it is really up to interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I wasn't implying that. I was saying that the way it is done, it's rape in name only if anything it's more like Yamato teasing Chris. Chris' route had plenty of teasing scenes. Yamato once kisses Chris when there's a power-cut, that kiss was in fact non-consensual as Yamato pretty much forcefully kissed her. If you consider this h-scene as rape then even that kiss scene should be considered as sexual harassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 If she does not accept it, it should be considered rape as it is performed without her consent. If she ratified the act, she basically post-consented to the act. Pretty sure that's not a thing. Just like you can't post-sex label something as rape if you willingly consented to it, you can't post-sex consent. If you said no, and someone kept going, it's rape. Doesn't really matter if you "ratify" it later, whatever that's supposed to mean. Fiddle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipsed Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 It was rape and that's why it was hot i haven't laughed so much from a Fuwacomment in quite a while. +2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdarkpaladin Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Pretty sure that's not a thing. Just like you can't post-sex label something as rape if you willingly consented to it, you can't post-sex consent. If you said no, and someone kept going, it's rape. Doesn't really matter if you "ratify" it later, whatever that's supposed to mean. Ratification is the act of agreeing/consenting to a previous act that was done without prior consent. It is usually use in laws applying to contracts and agents. The act of ratifying in those cases were that the owner accepts that the actions taken by their agent to be according to their will despite not giving proper consent before. Granted using this principle in rape is kinda iffy. For argument sake, what if after being raped, the initially unwilling party accepts the act? Chris accepting the act in the end is written by the writer so we can assume that she is willing after Yamoto did her. This of course do not apply in real life as it is hard to affirm whether the initially unwilling party is being coerced to giving their "post-consent" and therefore should not be taken as a yardstick in real world context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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