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What would get you into an OELVN?


Wolfscythe

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Well, yesterday I was browsing on /a/ like usual and there was this thread about a guy advertising an OELVN called Nijiko. (Link)

Suprisingly, the thread was kept civil, but it had a really low response (as expected of /a/).

But besides that, it made me think, what an OELVN needs to attract people?. So that's what this topic is about.

When I say that, I'm referring to some sort of "special conditions", something beside the things that normally attract you to VN's like good graphics, music, a nice story, etc., and also considering that we are talking about OELVN's.

For example, in my case, I consider that the characters are drawn manga style is really important, because otherwise, it feels foreign to the usual experience of reading VN's. Actually that made me read an OELVN called Phantom Seeds, that is short but enjoyable and from my point of view it could be used to explain someone how VN's work.

Another point would be that it has to be relatively long, at least 10 hours, to say something, I think that's one of the reasosn why Katawa Shoujo became so well-known, if it's longer it has more chances to trascend and of course I prefer longer stories because those can get more development.

Maybe as a last point I would say that I'm tired of the school setting, must likely in a SoL type of story, there are tons of stories like that out there, but it's just if it's a SoL based story, if it has some mistery, action, paranormal things or something that makes it different from the others, then it would get my attention.

Guess that's all... happy.gif

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I think what would attract me to an OELVN is the same that would attract me to any vn. There needs to be something that stands out. For example, Driftwood - a kickstarter vn in a school setting - is set in the US, and has male friends play a significant role. Also has good art. While the school setting really is played out as fuck, those first two are so rare it's interesting to me. The thing is, though, that I expect OELVNs to at least try to be different from their japanese brethren - there are enough translated vns on my backlog if I want something that feels japanese.

I don't find high length to be a requirement, but I prefer it to be at least 30 minutes. I like short vns to space in between longer ones for a breather; the doujin vns translated by Insani tend to be good for this and usually somewhat nonstandard compared to more mainstream works.

I agree with you somewhat about japanese-style artwork, but I think that is partly due to a lack of quality VNs drawn in another style. I welcome anyone trying making a good vn without it.

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I tend to be somewhat biased against OELVNs, due to the fact that the vast majority of them are very short, uninspired, and have bad art. Such a VN would have be very similar to a Japanese VN to interest me.

It is true that players will judge on appearances so that's a good point as well. How often do we try out a game just because the cover art looked pretty? I sure do :P. My own game could sure use better art and I might hire an artist later on.

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So far it seems it's the same as getting dragged into any other VN, things like art and such, and also the advertising, being it from hearing about it around various places or even from friends.

But!!! Being the censorship such an important aspect on non-japanese VN readers, would you expect an OELVN to have H-scenes?

I think that in this regard is the same as any other work, because that's how I feel about it, H-content is always a way to get people read your work, as it is for example loli, tsundere, yandere, kuudere, genki, etc. type of character, because it appeals to the tastes (and fetish) of the readers.

In a way, I guess a nukige OELVN would get the same acceptance as any other work based on the aspects of the VN, and not much based on the fact that it is an OELVN.

Basically there is a stigma around non-japanese works that try to use those styles just because they're not japanese, but when it comes down to it, the quality of the work is what really matters (and the advertising, but that's more a marketing kind of thing).

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If it sounds interesting, then I might give it a shot, just like any other work. I do, however, understand the skepticism surrounding OELVNs because it appears that most of them are very amateurish, or just plain bad. This is because many people who try to create their own VNs end up trying to make them "too Japanese", in an attempt to include the same characteristics and peculiarities of Japanese works in an English one. This sounds innocent at first, but the result is that many OELVNs end up feeling "forced", like the author was trying too hard to be Japanese when he doesn't understand the peculiarities and mentality of Japanese fiction, much less the proper narrative structure of a Japanese VN. OELVNs would be a little better if authors attempted to just be themselves, and if they still wish to create it like Japanese work, then they should take their time to study VNs more extensively, otherwise they'll make a fool of themselves.

I noticed that many OELVN authors tend to have a very loose idea of writing fiction in general. Many OELVNs sound like they were written by a naive highschooler with barely any experience, not too dissimilar to what is usually seen in fan fiction. Sure, anyone can write their own story... But making it good is a whole different thing, and there are a multitude of techniques which amateur authors ignore, such as not realizing that, yes, the way certain sentences are worded can make a story more pleasant to read.

Of course, that's not to say that Japanese VN writers aren't like that, but when we stop to consider that most translated VNs out there are of very high quality, then comparisons with OELVNs become inevitable. It's like reading David Foster Wallace, then read your teenage daughter's vampire romance story right after. The difference is jarring.

Of course, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate what those writers do. Any kind of creative activity should be encouraged, and even if the end result is bad, there is always room for improvement. I am always sad to see people who immediately shoot down any amateur VNs instead of encouraging writers to improve. Less and less people are engaging in creativity, and simply ignoring attempts which don't seem very good will end up alienating many people who want to try out writing for the first time. In other words, critize, but don't break the poor lad's arms.

Incidentally, advertising your work in the Cesspool of Hatred is never a good idea.

EDIT: I'd like to add that the fact that many writers out there are more bitter than black coffee is not surprising considering the hostile mentality of... pretty much everyone out there. If we were more open and just, y'know, nicer towards others, then maybe this could be avoided... But hey, the Romans crucified a man who said that maybe we should be nice to each other for once, so there you have it...

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Yeah, it's weird how those get like that, trying to be more "japanese" and achieving exactly the opposite. It's more or less what happens with animation, when some western or japanese studio try to make something with the style of the other but they also want to give it a personal touch and the result is a low quality bastardization, that could be better if they had chosen just one style. Yeah, there are some projects that actually worked that way, but the vast majority turned out like that.

But well, like you said, that leaves a lot of ground for improvement, they just need a bit of encouragement (and a lot of advice (and constructive critics)).

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I'm incredibly biased against OELVN's and doujin works in general. To get me interested, it would take a truly massive amount of hype that would make Katawa Shoujo (which I haven't played) look unpopular, together with striking Japanese-style art and a story concept I found amazing. It would also need good gameplay and probably ero. Basically, it would need to be professional grade and amazing overall.

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Ok, i've been looking in on this thread for a few days.

I'll bite. I'll assume that OELVN is basically a western created VN. I have to say, I'm not against the thought, but really I'd still want it in the same vein as the standard VNs. Kawata Shoujo still has the artwork and theme of Japan, so I liked that.

I'd not be into a western art VN.

EDIT: It stands for Original English Language Visual Novel... doesn't it? *sigh*

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Ok, i've been looking in on this thread for a few days.

I'll bite. I'll assume that OELVN is basically a western created VN. I have to say, I'm not against the thought, but really I'd still want it in the same vein as the standard VNs. Kawata Shoujo still has the artwork and theme of Japan, so I liked that.

I'd not be into a western art VN.

EDIT: It stands for Original English Language Visual Novel... doesn't it? *sigh*

Yeah, I have to admit, it'll be hard to make me look at a western art VN, too. Most English VNs are done by everyday fans, so a lot of them may feel amateurish art and story wise. If an group of English folk formed a VN company, it'd be interesting to see what they come up with. Fans can definitely do a lot, though. It depends on the creator's age, too. Older folk with more life experience may do a better job, etc.

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It would have to be good. Although I do admit I tend to prefer the manga artstyle as well. But as long as it tells an interesting tale, I don't mind too much. I'm not a purist.

The only OELVNs I played were games by Christine Love, but I did enjoy those, so yeah. Well, correction: I really enjoyed her latest one, Analogue. The other two were just okay.

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I'm incredibly biased against OELVN's and doujin works in general.

I'll give you the point for OELVN, but even doujin works? There are a lot of doujin VN's with good quality, just to say some, Bluebird's Illusion of FMA for example. Actually I'm biased against fan works of other titles, but the quality of this one is really good. And if IIRC it was made by some students from a Chinese University.

There are others like Omega no Shikai that even Ixrec acknowledges (Link).

Another example is Tsukiakari no Raspberry by Tinklebell, that actually has a lot of good stuff. It even uses a system of sprites similar to the e-mote system (though I don't remeber if it's in this one).

Even Tsukihime is considered a doujin work, since in those times TYPE-MOON wasn't properly stablished, that's why they wan't to do the remake (Damn you Nasu!! Put some effort in your other works!!).

Well, all this is just considering that line, I don't actually know what your experience or your full opinion about doujin works is, maybe I went a bit far, if that's the case, sorry.

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