So what's up with Western VN developers going for Japanese settings

[Nyanko]

I guess I personally expect a bit too much from "writers" in the west: to not write things that already have been written over and over... and be original for once. As a Western person you have the chance to create original stories in the VN genre, in a way Japanese writers can't do that: based on your own experiences and knowledge. Of course the group of people who are the most likely to ever write a visual novel are the ones attracted by the typical JP-made stories (the ones I actually don't want to see in a OELVN at all), else they would've never been introduced to the genre to begin with.

 

But I just wonder.. if you seriously decide to write and publish a OELVN, and start writing lets say a high school setting, and make it take place in a Japanese school setting just so you can throw in the weebstuff you love so much, then what are you even trying to achieve by publishing it? And if you reeeally feel you MUST do just that, why not give it a little bit more of a Western twist... Then at least it will be refreshing or interesting, because if it is not original why would it get (positive) attention of the VN readers (unless you don't want that). Personally I wouldn't feel seriously attracted to a low budget Japanese high school story written by a western person, if I can just read my high quality high school setting story made by the JP company with big titles on its name (the one you might have actually based your OELVN on).

 

I love VNs and it's really a little wish of me to see more original stories coming from Western people in VN form.

[Clephas]

Most good fiction writers in the West tend to gravitate toward novel-writing or screenplay writing.  Really good amateurs pop up fairly often, but because they don't know how to push their works, they rarely if ever come to light.  OELVNs tend to get writers who:

 

1.  Are otakus who know about VNs

2.  Have aspirations to write

3.  Believe the VN model can show their writing better than a book

 

Considering how little money there is in it and how niche the community is, it actually surprises me more that there are actually good OELVNs at all.  There is no real industry power behind it, so everything is indies or borderline indies, and that means a general lack of refinement, both due to a lack of money and time and because of the limited pool of talent. 

 

Another issue is that VNs in general tend to be considered sex games, so investors in potential game projects tend to take them less seriously than they might have without that consideration. 

[firecat]

@Firecat

Enlighten me, which part of VNDB goals (that don't say what can be considered a VN) and Fuwanovel's clunky, but rather sensible definition (with a video showing examples of perfectly typical VNs without a hint of gameplay, except some minigames in LB) supports your claim that you can label random adventure games or RPGs as VNs with no rhyme or reason?

 

its this thing called wikipedia:

 

Some visual novels do not limit themselves into merely interactive fictions, but also incorporate other elements into them. An example of this is Symphonic Rain, where the player is required to play a musical instrument of some sort, and attain a good score in order to advance. Usually such an element is related as a plot device in the game.

 

There have often been role-playing video games that feature visual novel style elements. A well-known example in the West is Lost Odyssey, a role-playing video game that features a series of visual novel style flashback sequences called "A Thousand Years of Dreams", which were well received in the West.[3] These sequences were penned by an award-winning Japanese short story writer, Kiyoshi Shigematsu.[21] Another title is the Arc System Works fighting game series Blazblue, which plays off of a complex fantasy setting where a one hundred year period is reset indefinitely with many variables. The many branching story lines in Story Mode can serve as stand-alone stories, but players must consider them together along with Arcade Mode stories to be able to fully understand the universe.

 

as you can see visual novels have evolved to become new things, there is no rule saying that it has to be 100% storyline.

[Rose]

its this thing called wikipedia:

 

Some visual novels do not limit themselves into merely interactive fictions, but also incorporate other elements into them. An example of this is Symphonic Rain, where the player is required to play a musical instrument of some sort, and attain a good score in order to advance. Usually such an element is related as a plot device in the game.

 

There have often been role-playing video games that feature visual novel style elements. A well-known example in the West is Lost Odyssey, a role-playing video game that features a series of visual novel style flashback sequences called "A Thousand Years of Dreams", which were well received in the West.[3] These sequences were penned by an award-winning Japanese short story writer, Kiyoshi Shigematsu.[21] Another title is the Arc System Works fighting game series Blazblue, which plays off of a complex fantasy setting where a one hundred year period is reset indefinitely with many variables. The many branching story lines in Story Mode can serve as stand-alone stories, but players must consider them together along with Arcade Mode stories to be able to fully understand the universe.

 

as you can see visual novels have evolved to become new things, there is no rule saying that it has to be 100% storyline.

 

I don't think you can use wikipedia as a reliable source in a discussion. Either way, mini-games can be plot-related but in the end they're not the main genre.

 

In the end, VNs are more of a way of telling a story, like movies and books. You can add lore in scrolls/books/reading in general in a game (Dark Souls; Lords of the Fallen), and you can also add movies (cutscenes). In the same fashion, you can add something using the VN style to your game, but it's still a video-game, not a visual novel. Still, it's still a young medium and it'll develop with time, that's for sure. Well, I honestly don't really understand most of your arguments so I might be interpreting what you're saying in a really wrong way.

[Guest]

They have no imagination and are simply copying shit that's been made assuming it's the best and it's how it should be done.

 

They sheeps.

[Down]

 

I don't think you can use wikipedia as a reliable source in a discussion.

[firecat]

I don't think you can use wikipedia as a reliable source in a discussion. Either way, mini-games can be plot-related but in the end they're not the main genre.

 

In the end, VNs are more of a way of telling a story, like movies and books. You can add lore in scrolls/books/reading in general in a game (Dark Souls; Lords of the Fallen), and you can also add movies (cutscenes). In the same fashion, you can add something using the VN style to your game, but it's still a video-game, not a visual novel. Still, it's still a young medium and it'll develop with time, that's for sure. Well, I honestly don't really understand most of your arguments so I might be interpreting what you're saying in a really wrong way.

 

so in your case you the few believers who thinks pron vn is not a vn (ya know the whole story is not important ya ya ya). i have shown you many things that many people have consider it vn, even offer it as a tag for other games but still you with many others refuse. these types of people i call foolish, they refuse to accept the truth and try to make it their own definition.

[Abyssal Monkey]

so in your case you the few believers who thinks pron vn is not a vn (ya know the whole story is not important ya ya ya). i have shown you many things that many people have consider it vn, even offer it as a tag for other games but still you with many others refuse. these types of people i call foolish, they refuse to accept the truth and try to make it their own definition.

No, we define things to make clear what we say. You are citing an uncited definition off of Wikipedia, making it inherently unreliable. As I had stated before, all your examples of "VNs" with gameplay are RPGs, a genre of game with a very precise definition that has developed over the course of many decades. Stop trying to claim they are VNs.

You also seem to think that attacking the ethos of a person is a good solution for reducing the logos. So I'm going to do the same thing: how about you stop being a fool, do some solid research, and come back with some actual evidence to back up your claims. You seem to inherently be slandering yourself by completely exemplifying what you claim others are being: closed minded and a poor reader.

[SpiduhBMX]

so in your case you the few believers who thinks pron vn is not a vn (ya know the whole story is not important ya ya ya). i have shown you many things that many people have consider it vn, even offer it as a tag for other games but still you with many others refuse. these types of people i call foolish, they refuse to accept the truth and try to make it their own definition.

Nukiges are VN's. Vn's with H-Scenes are still VN's. I personally don't care for Vn's with H-Scenes only, and i just don't like H-Scenes in my Vn's, but they are still Vn's. An RPG is not a VN. A Vn is based mainly around the story, generally using text boxes and sprites with backgrounds. A Vn with a minigame, such as the baseball minigame in Little Busters is still a VN. An RPG that is mostly just gameplay but uses text boxes for dialogue and tell the story is not a VN. That is an RPG. It may have a story, but no matter how much of a story it has in it, it is still based around the actual gameplay. Again, RPG's are not VN's.

[firecat]

Nukiges are VN's. Vn's with H-Scenes are still VN's. I personally don't care for Vn's with H-Scenes only, and i just don't like H-Scenes in my Vn's, but they are still Vn's. An RPG is not a VN. A Vn is based mainly around the story, generally using text boxes and sprites with backgrounds. A Vn with a minigame, such as the baseball minigame in Little Busters is still a VN. An RPG that is mostly just gameplay but uses text boxes for dialogue and tell the story is not a VN. That is an RPG. It may have a story, but no matter how much of a story it has in it, it is still based around the actual gameplay. Again, RPG's are not VN's.

 

you say RPG are not VN but plays a RPG that many consider a visual novel, ya good job you fail. (Sakura Clicker made by Sekai Project)

 

(Sekai project: an American company and video game publisher. They are known for licensing and translating Japanese visual novels into English.)

 

 

No, we define things to make clear what we say. You are citing an uncited definition off of Wikipedia, making it inherently unreliable. As I had stated before, all your examples of "VNs" with gameplay are RPGs, a genre of game with a very precise definition that has developed over the course of many decades. Stop trying to claim they are VNs.

You also seem to think that attacking the ethos of a person is a good solution for reducing the logos. So I'm going to do the same thing: how about you stop being a fool, do some solid research, and come back with some actual evidence to back up your claims. You seem to inherently be slandering yourself by completely exemplifying what you claim others are being: closed minded and a poor reader.

 

this is your proof of a rpg being a visual novel.

[Yuuko]

I don't even...

[Pabloc]

as you can see visual novels have evolved to become new things, there is no rule saying that it has to be 100% storyline.

 

Except that visual novels evolved from Japanese adventure games and dating sims by getting rid of the gameplay and focusing on storyline and/or sex-scenes. What you are talking about would be a devolution.

 

As for the Wikipedia article, yeah - some VNs have minigames. And some games use a VN-style presentation. So what? How are those examples labelled in that article again? Let me remind you - "Lost Odyssey, a role-playing video game" and "fighting game series Blazblue". For some reason, they weren't labelled as VNs there. Why?

Because the article you quoted yourself actually proves you wrong. Good job.

I already said that there are such things as hybrids, that mix up elements from various genres (like BlazBLue). They obviously cannot be considered a "norm" for any of the mixed genres.

 

(Sakura Clicker made by Sekai Project)

(Sekai project: an American company and video game publisher. They are known for licensing and translating Japanese visual novels into English.)

this is your proof of a rpg being a visual novel.

How much blatant bullshit can you squeeze into one short sentence? Are you for real?

Sakura Clicker was made by Winged Cloud, not by Sekai Project, and it's neither a VN nor an RPG. It's a... well, a clicker game.

As for what Sekai Project is known for - it means nothing and proves even less.

[Abyssal Monkey]

you say RPG are not VN but plays a RPG that many consider a visual novel, ya good job you fail. (Sakura Clicker made by Sekai Project)

 

(Sekai project: an American company and video game publisher. They are known for licensing and translating Japanese visual novels into English.)

 

 

 

this is your proof of a rpg being a visual novel.

Do you even english?

[Rose]

Yo, stop flaming here or this thread will end up locked. Take it to PMs if you really must, but try to tone it down a bit here. 

[Kanbe]

Erm. Imma request a lock ere. Play some moeges and calm down guys.

[Funyarinpa]

Erm. Imma request a lock ere. Play some moeges and calm down guys.

[Clephas]

It is too bad... before the 'conversation' about whether rpgs and VNs are the same thing, this was a nice discussion thread...

[Guest]

[XReaper]

soon there wont be any "west" after trump-san gets elected - therefore this thread is meaningless like 3days old dick cheese. time to get fully easternisized folks!

[Abyssal Monkey]

It is too bad... before the 'conversation' about whether rpgs and VNs are the same thing, this was a nice discussion thread...

[Chronopolis]

More or less, this is one of the reasons I can't bring myself to get serious about OELVNs...  For some reason, there is a tendency toward excessive mimicry of the Japanese style - both written and drawn.  Drawn isn't such a problem, if the artist can handle it.  However, there are cultural elements to the Japanese style of writing a story that most western cultures just can't reproduce (we don't have the cultural background for it).