Bolverk Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 This is a really important point. Having a Japanese company open an English-speaking division is a big deal. I'm really interested in seeing what happens in the future. ------- RE: Removing Content Debate Let's also remember that all console ports of erogue have their h-content removed. This is actually not a new thing, and a strategy used by VN publishers to reach wider audiences in Japan (a la FSN Realta Nua, etc.). Whether or not you agree with changing a game's content, this practice has history, and is a strategy already widely-utilized in Japan. Removing H-content very much depends on the VN in question imo. Some of the vn's I've played they seemed to add the H-scenes just as an afterthough. The were added because they should have ero content. These kind of Vn's I don't really care if they were removed, because I mostly care about the story. Eien no Aselia is one example: The version that got translated was the All ages, even if there was a eroge version of the game as well. But there was less story and the H-scenes was somewhat afterthoughts not that important at all in the eroge version. I am okay with this. On the other hand. Considering the amount of H-content in If My Heart Had Wings, I would say removing the H-content is not a good idea. It would be butchering of it's orginal form. Just so that they could sell it to a wider audience. It is not something you can just adjust with a few lines of text, it's the natural flow of the story and comedy becomes different. You may even feel something is missing. Sudden jump in scenes etc. In a bigger context tho. Having a good all-age game is prbly the best way to expand to other userbases, if it is possible to reach them. You have some story games on DS getting high amount of sales in EU and US. But they are story and often mystery themed. Not romance as a main. I am really unsure it there is any market for this at all. Well I guess time will tell. Personally I don't like butchering of vn's in this manner. It's like you are removing one of the key elements why Vn's are so unique and spesical. Censoring them just feels wrong. But if this creates a bigger market for Vn's in the west, more people will know of VN's and we may be able to get support for two types of translations. One with Ero and one without ero. Tho tranlsation all those ero scenes prbly will take some time and money... Considering the current market it's not any point doing that. But if there was an increase in the total number of VN readers. The people liking eroge will also increase I would imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fujimoto Takashi Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Well im not saying bruteforcing, but appealing. And yes, there are differences, but those are most of the time given by the fact the they are 18+ My point is: game that was created as eroge should stay eroge. You dont jsut take RPG, take all the RPG content away and make it action adventure. there is plenty of all ages games they can localize if they so want to appeal to 12 yo girls... Which once again brings the conclusion that they chose the wrong game. Exactly! Its pretty much that simple, you cannot mess with a games content like that, for a wider audience you pick a game that actualy suits a wider audiance. Taking away something that was there in there first place would just hurt the game and its fanbase, and they cant risk losing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinkler Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Does anyone know how do extract the scripts out of their files? It would be interesting to see how many lines they actually left out. Edit: Okay, question answered. Apparently the English version has around 4000 Lines less than the Japanese version which is around 12% of the total amount of lines of the Japanese version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giki190 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I been kinda against the "butchering the game" argument because I thought if they just took out a few lines and some images it would be fine but 4000 lines really doing just that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkker Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 4k lines?? Well that's a bit too much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 For those unfamiliar with VN text dumping, what is a "line"? Would we even expect the number of lines to exactly match between two language releases of the same title (assuming no content was removed)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 For those unfamiliar with VN text dumping, what is a "line"? Would we even expect the number of lines to exactly match between two language releases of the same title (assuming no content was removed)? Line is called the one full message that is displayed in the main window of VN. The line can be even like "..." or it can be several sentences long. When you press space, you move to next line in the script. It is called line as in the script it actually is a one long line (when opened in notepad or whatever) and all the formatting like word wrap and such are done after, using parameters of the engine. So when you translate, you need to have exactly the same number of lines (as those are the dialogues), they can be longer lines or shorter lines thanks to the translation but in this case, it is still 4000 missing "space" presses and 4000 less main window messages - which is a hell of a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giki190 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 For those unfamiliar with VN text dumping, what is a "line"? Would we even expect the number of lines to exactly match between two language releases of the same title (assuming no content was removed)? Well, even so I don't think it would be even 4000 lines off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 So when you translate, you need to have exactly the same number of lines (as those are the dialogues), they can be longer lines or shorter lines thanks to the translation but in this case, it is still 4000 missing "space" presses and 4000 less main window messages - which is a hell of a lot. Ok, I get the concept now, and this does indeed imply that significant written content was cut. However, I'd also like to point out that many translations split one Japanese line into two English lines (defining a "line" as a "click" prompt in the message window), as it usually takes more "words" to convey a message in a different language from the original (this is well-established). It's therefore quite possible that the amount of cut content exceeds 12%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giki190 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Ok, I get the concept now, and this does indeed imply that significant written content was cut. However, I'd also like to point out that many translations split one Japanese line into two English lines, as it usually takes more "words" to convey a message in a different language from the original (this is well-established). It's quite possible therefore that the amount of cut content exceeds 12%. So about 20% was actually cut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 Does anyone know how do extract the scripts out of their files? It would be interesting to see how many lines they actually left out. Edit: Okay, question answered. Apparently the English version has around 4000 Lines less than the Japanese version which is around 12% of the total amount of lines of the Japanese version. Give me a source and I'll consider broadcasting this new data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Ok, I get the concept now, and this does indeed imply that significant written content was cut. However, I'd also like to point out that many translations split one Japanese line into two English lines (defining a "line" as a "click" prompt in the message window), as it usually takes more "words" to convey a message in a different language from the original (this is well-established). It's therefore quite possible that the amount of cut content exceeds 12%. Don't take this following statement 100% correct as I am not actually that sure about it... but: I think that line always stays line, however there is a mechanism that will in case of too long line split the line into 2 messages. I think that such mechanism is in the engine itself as lot of times you can actually change font in the Japanese version of the VN to whatever you like and some fonts are just longer. In some you can even change font size. In those cases the line will become split to 2 windows, however often times the voice will only play for the first window on auto mode. But the thing is that line always stays line as it has its address and all that which then corresponds to what is happening on the screen and what voice is being played. And I don't think its even easily possible to add additional line in between 2 lines (it might be possible with patch of sorts). So if a line is too long, it doesn't become 2 lines even though it is split into 2 windows, it is just 1 line but the game will wait for you to read the first half and then send you the second half when you are ready (auto mode or space press). Again, I am not 100% sure that is true but from the translations we are doing, it just isn't possible to "make up" a line as every line is exactly numbered to be called in the game. Long lines automatically split for us to 2 windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giki190 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Give me a source and I'll consider broadcasting this new data. What do you mean by broadcasting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurobeatz Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 This release just keeps sounding worse and worse as this thread goes on... Hopefully MoeNovel improves their next one (if there is a next one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 What do you mean by broadcasting? I'm tracking this debate across multiple forums, and I maintain a synopsis that summarizes current knowledge on the extent of the content cuts (see the opening post). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giki190 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I'm tracking this debate across multiple forums, and I maintain a synopsis that summarizes current knowledge on extent of the content cuts (see the opening post). You started a fanbase wide protest......*claps* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giki190 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Hopefully MoeNovel improves their next one (if there is a next one). Even if "if my heart had wings" isn't a success I think they'll continue and I also think they still won't released a 18+ game if their serious about the "wider audience" thing so let's just hope they release something like Oreimo which is already all ages and can actually be appealing to 12 year old french girls...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 You started a fanbase wide protest......*claps* Well sadly it made no change. Lot of people including me emailed them about it but all we got back is that we should use our imagination to imagine the H scenes (it is literally what the email said, it is here on some of the previous pages). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 You started a fanbase wide protest......*claps* I don't protest. I create awareness by giving people the facts and context they need to make educated decisions. I try to carefully distinguish between what is objectively true, potentially valid viewpoints, and my personal opinion. Protesters are merely interested in gathering support for a cause; they're typically not interested in accurately representing opposing viewpoints. Also, while I'm an active figure in the community-wide response to MoeNovel's release, I can hardly claim to be a "leader" of a movement. I'm just a face in the crowd with a slightly louder voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurobeatz Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Even if "if my heart had wings" isn't a success I think they'll continue and I also think they still won't released a 18+ game if their serious about the "wider audience" thing so let's just hope they release something like Oreimo which is already all ages and can actually be appealing to 12 year old french girls...... Well, if their plan to create a "wider audience" proves to result in failed releases, then you'd think that they would do something to please the current English-speaking visual novel fanbase. Also, I doubt that they will translate any games not made by Pulltop, because apparently that is the company that they are affiliated with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinkler Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Give me a source and I'll consider broadcasting this new data. http://fuuka.warosu.org/jp/thread/11110044#p11110659 That post not too reliable but the pastebin looks pretty promissing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fujimoto Takashi Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 How they expect to have any success by removing H-scenes 4k lines? It makes no sense whatsoever! Are they really that blind? They are risking the only source of income they have, a loyal fanbase, you simply cant atract kids to an adult game made almost entirely of text! I cant even get my friends to actualy read something! Imagine a 12 years old kid! Urgh.....this is just frustating.....we need to make our voices heard, this cant go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahfuu Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Yknow, watching someone stream it, it's kind of a shame. There's quite a lot of discussion about Aerodynamics. The translation makes it seem so awkward sounding sometimes though. And the VN actually does have some pretty good moments in it so far. More then you'd expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 What a shame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shcboomer Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Hmmm some of these screenshots so far, a bit interesting to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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