New VN localization company: MoeNovel

[solidbatman]

I'll pick this one up down the road now that I see they made some sort of effort to add new scenes for consistency. I hope it works out for them.

[Tay]

I preordered the hardcopy version, so I won't receive it (likely) until early next week. I'll be posting my thoughts on it once it arrives. Regardless of one's opinion about the release, it's been heartening to see a massive, positive facebook response.

[sanahtlig]

Regardless of one's opinion about the release, it's been heartening to see a massive, positive facebook response.

I think that depends on your point of view as well. There's people who find this concerning. For those who take a stance against censorship, support of it is the last thing they want to see. If censorship is seen as more profitable than no censorship, Mangagamer and JAST may find themselves outcompeted down the road. The developers with promising titles won't bother with an uncensored release if a censored release (e.g., through MoeNovel) will guarantee more sales.

[Eurobeatz]

12-year-old French girls? AHAHAHA. I highly doubt this would be the right VN if they are trying to appeal to 12-year-old girls.

Although, since they claim to have added new content to replace all the stuff they took out, I might be willing to give it another try.

I started playing eroge when I was twelve (and yes, the game I played did include ero content) but I agree, targeting twelve-year-olds is a bit...

Also, there is no way that they could add new content unless the Japanese company who made the original game was interested in creating new content for English-speaking readers, which I find very unlikely.

[sanahtlig]

I started playing eroge when I was twelve (and yes, the game I played did include ero content) but I agree, targeting twelve-year-olds is a bit...

Also, there is no way that they could add new content unless the Japanese company who made the original game was interested in creating new content for English-speaking readers, which I find very unlikely.

MoeNovel basically said they're part of Will. So they do work closely with the developers. I think extrapolating that they "created new scenes" is stretching what they actually said a bit far.

[Steve]

Well they claim they added new content... the question then is what quality the content is. If lot of the humor in the game are supposed to be sexual jokes which are apparently removed (from the previous statements they had), they would need to invent some new jokes. And then they say they voiced the new lines and changes? How, did they voice them in English or did they actually add new Japanese lines, voiced those in Japanese and then translated to English, having no point in having those lines originally in Japanese only to have voice. Or will there be half of the liens Japanese and half voiced in English xD

Well I sense a great disaster coming, this cannot end well. And the notion of selling EROge to 12yo girls is ridiculous. If they so wanted to make readable anime for anime fans, there is tons of Haganai PSP, Oreimo PSP and such that is already all ages to begin with... It once again all comes to the fact that they chose a wrong game to do for this kind of business strategy.

[sanahtlig]

Well they claim they added new content... the question then is what quality the content is. If lot of the humor in the game are supposed to be sexual jokes which are apparently removed (from the previous statements they had), they would need to invent some new jokes. And then they say they voiced the new lines and changes? How, did they voice them in English or did they actually add new Japanese lines, voiced those in Japanese and then translated to English, having no point in having those lines originally in Japanese only to have voice. Or will there be half of the liens Japanese and half voiced in English xD

Obviously they voiced the lines in Japanese. -_-; MoeNovel is an offshoot of Pulltop after all.

[Zakamutt]

Looks like the likes might have been bought from some vietnamese (sorry for swedish)

[shcboomer]

Yeah seems like they bought likes... So much bad publicity already.

[Famichip]

From 4chan's /jp/:

I looked over the CGs:

- 32 H CG removed

- 1 SD CG removed (the one with the sex joke)

- 3 CG some variations removed

- 1 SD CG edited to remove panty shot

- 3 CG edited to add towels

- 1 CG edited to remove visible bra under wet shirt

[Tay]

I think that depends on your point of view as well. There's people who find this concerning. For those who take a stance against censorship, support of it is the last thing they want to see. If censorship is seen as more profitable than no censorship, Mangagamer and JAST may find themselves outcompeted down the road. The developers with promising titles won't bother with an uncensored release if a censored release (e.g., through MoeNovel) will guarantee more sales.

That's a fair point.

MoeNovel basically said they're part of Will. So they do work closely with the developers. I think extrapolating that they "created new scenes" is stretching what they actually said a bit far.

Yeah, in several of the interviews they've done (all of which are linked to in their twitter stream), they have confirmed new content and scenes are replacing h-scenes, and additional content was written and voiced to make the sizeable h-content removal work. It's been compared to a "complete overhaul".

As soon as I get the game, I'll be sure to post my thoughts. Any of you fine Fuwanovelians purchase a download copy? Anybody playing it yet?

[Wahfuu]

I'm tempted to try it but I feel bad for supporting such a garbage translation.

[Fujimoto Takashi]

Removing content is always a bad and stupid idea, how they expect to reach a wider audience when the only audience they will possibly get is an already set fanbase? they are risking losing even that if they do remove H-scenes, wich are part of the game, and should stay there.

VNs arent for everyone, but they are like treasures for the ones who do enjoy them and when we open the chest, we expect to find every single gold coin inside. Dont mess with our stuff :T

[Down]

Removing content is always a bad and stupid idea, how they expect to reach a wider audience when the only audience they will possibly get is an already set fanbase? they are risking losing even that if they do remove H-scenes, wich are part of the game, and should stay there.

VNs arent for everyone, but they are like treasures for the ones who do enjoy them and when we open the chest, we expect to find every single gold coin inside. Dont mess with our stuff :T

We probably went over this already but...

No, refusing to open the community isn't gonna work. If VNs can find a market in the West, be it through removal of H-scenes (and yes, there are people who'll refuse to play something with erotic content and/or be creeped out by it, this is a fact that has to be dealt with), then it's a good thing. That could prevent the whole industry to collapse. Because most companies that aren't Key or Type-Moon are in a state where one single failure on a game is the end.

The fact that a Japanese company is trying to open up to the West is something quite exceptional, and even if they're doing it wrong to appeal to the existing fanbase, to be met with only hatred will close off a rare opportunity.

[Steve]

No, refusing to open the community isn't gonna work. If VNs can find a market in the West, be it through removal of H-scenes (and yes, there are people who'll refuse to play something with erotic content and/or be creeped out by it, this is a fact that has to be dealt with), then it's a good thing.

And I would have to disagree and say it is a bad thing.

If people didn't like ero, there wouldn't be thousands of erotic magazines, playboys and everything, every commercial in television wouldn't have half naked woman and people wouldn't go to watch a specific movie just because Megan Fox is the cast.

The thing is that most people prefer the 3d ero or the real ero, eroge in west shoudl try to appeal to those people and show them that 2d is the way to go too AND they can actually have a good story too (not like transformers where most people actually went to see the movie because of Megan Fox and the story sucked).

By transforming eroge to something that already exist in much wider format - its called anime - they just alienate the current eroge fanbase while having really big problems finding actual market for what essentially is half voiced non moving anime (as that is what becomes from eroge that has its H content removed).

[Wahfuu]

The thing is that most people prefer the 3d ero or the real ero, eroge in west shoudl try to appeal to those people and show them that 2d is the way to go too AND they can actually have a good story too (not like transformers where most people actually went to see the movie because of Megan Fox and the story sucked).

By transforming eroge to something that already exist in much wider format - its called anime - they just alienate the current eroge fanbase while having really big problems finding actual market for what essentially is half voiced non moving anime (as that is what becomes from eroge that has its H content removed).

Except bruteforcing the method into people unwilling to try it is a terrible idea. Visual novels and anime in general have a stigma attatched to them. Forcing it does nothing.

Also way, way more differences exist between anime and visual novels besides just H content. That's way too full bodied of a statement.

[Steve]

Except bruteforcing the method into people unwilling to try it is a terrible idea. Visual novels and anime in general have a stigma attatched to them. Forcing it does nothing.

Also way, way more differences exist between anime and visual novels besides just H content. That's way too full bodied of a statement.

Well im not saying bruteforcing, but appealing.

And yes, there are differences, but those are most of the time given by the fact the they are 18+

My point is: game that was created as eroge should stay eroge. You dont jsut take RPG, take all the RPG content away and make it action adventure.

there is plenty of all ages games they can localize if they so want to appeal to 12 yo girls...

Which once again brings the conclusion that they chose the wrong game.

[Wahfuu]

Well im not saying bruteforcing, but appealing.

And yes, there are differences, but those are most of the time given by the fact the they are 18+

My point is: game that was created as eroge should stay eroge. You dont jsut take RPG, take all the RPG content away and make it action adventure.

there is plenty of all ages games they can localize if they so want to appeal to 12 yo girls...

Which once again brings the conclusion that they chose the wrong game.

I agree that KonoSora was a poor choice for it. And to be fair I'm much more concerned about the translation quality then I am about the H, so my standpoint on this is a bit different.

Visual novels are going to have to work within the boundry of its stigma. I thought Steins was going to be the visual novel that broke the glass ceiling but now I'm not so sure.

[Down]

If people didn't like ero, there wouldn't be thousands of erotic magazines, playboys and everything, every commercial in television wouldn't have half naked woman and people wouldn't go to watch a specific movie just because Megan Fox is the cast.

The thing is that most people prefer the 3d ero or the real ero, eroge in west shoudl try to appeal to those people and show them that 2d is the way to go too AND they can actually have a good story too (not like transformers where most people actually went to see the movie because of Megan Fox and the story sucked).

That's why I was stating it's a fact that has to be dealt with and can't be changed. It's incredibly hard to change people's bias toward something, especially for a touchy subject like porn. Porn is widely spread and everyone watches it, yet most people never talk about it with their friends. At least not seriously. Thus it's a touchy subject: that's the way the culture is and however wrong that might seem to you, it's this way.

[Tay]

...The fact that a Japanese company is trying to open up to the West is something quite exceptional, and even if they're doing it wrong to appeal to the existing fanbase, to be met with only hatred will close off a rare opportunity.

This is a really important point. Having a Japanese company open an English-speaking division is a big deal. I'm really interested in seeing what happens in the future.

-------

RE: Removing Content Debate

Let's also remember that all console ports of erogue have their h-content removed. This is actually not a new thing, and a strategy used by VN publishers to reach wider audiences in Japan (a la FSN Realta Nua, etc.). Whether or not you agree with changing a game's content, this practice has history, and is a strategy already widely-utilized in Japan.

[sanahtlig]

If the presence of icky ero content was the only issue, MoeNovel would either:

1) Make the content optional (via in-game options or patches), or

2) Release two versions

"Opening the community" is a distorted way to think of it. It's quite the opposite. The problem we're dealing with is that mainstream society has instituted blocks against ero content. They've decided such content is unacceptable, and actively discriminate against it. MoeNovel is hacking out content to make it through the hoops that Western mainstream society has erected. This is very saddening. It's not the VN community that's refusing to accept mainstreamers. It's the mainstreamers that are refusing to accept the existing VN community, demanding that VNs be remodeled according to their views of what is morally acceptable. Their acceptance is predicated on our opinions being ignored and disregarded. THAT is the issue: that VNs can only be popularized by carving them up and cutting out the soul of what draws many of us to them, that we must sacrifice to win the approval of the moral majority, that we should purchase the hacked-up localization HAPPILY because otherwise we're not doing our part to support the market.

Comparison to console ports does not detract from this point, because the original version still exists in their native language and is accessible to those who want to enjoy it. Choosing to localize an all-ages version is more of a grey area, but at least this doesn't constitute *Westernization*--alternation purely for the purposes of marketing the game in the West.

[Tay]

Comparison to console ports does not detract from this point, because the original version still exists in their native language and is accessible to those who want to enjoy it. Choosing to localize an all-ages version is more of a grey area, but at least this doesn't constitute *Westernization*--alternation purely for the purposes of marketing the game in the West.

Didn't see your edit until now. I agree that the whole issue is one of culture, and that western culture is largely opposed to sexual content in media. Be it porn, sexualized movies/art, or video games, Western tradition is to both ignore and regulate it.

Changing a culture is not an easy thing, and it doesn't happen quickly. For me, having visual novel-esque gameplay be more widespread is the start. When Japanese companies can stop looking at the US market as more than FPS-bros and super-niche indie/RPG fans, they may start taking risks. Until that time, you're facing an uphill battle of monstrously poor odds.

I understand your point about console releases. What I was getting across is that modifying game content to make it appeal to a wider audience is nothing new. It's happening even in Japan. We shouldn't be shocked at the strategy.

In any case, I choose to see this as a positive: a Japanese company is self-selectively trying to expand into the US market. That's awesome. The more of these games get out there, the more VN gameplay will start working into indie, then mainstream, games. Once that happens, our options are significantly less limited.

PS: As always, I love reading your commentary, Sanahtlig. Always thought provoking.

[Daeyamati]

This is a really important point. Having a Japanese company open an English-speaking division is a big deal. I'm really interested in seeing what happens in the future.

-------

RE: Removing Content Debate

Let's also remember that all console ports of eroge have their h-content removed. This is actually not a new thing, and a strategy used by VN publishers to reach wider audiences in Japan (a la FSN Realta Nua, etc.). Whether or not you agree with changing a game's content, this practice has history, and is a strategy already widely-utilized in Japan.

Just going to C&P what I posted on Aaeru's blog in response to a certain comment:

People are angry about this precisely BECAUSE it's not a console port. For instance, Sony doesn't allow ero content on their consoles, and that's a well-known fact. That's why when eroge are ported to the PSP, PSVita, etc, nobody minds the H content being cut. [Also, like sanahtling said, the original is still out there in addition to the port.]

Personally I have very mixed feelings about this. While I do commend their effort to bring visual novels to the west, KonoSora isn't a good title to start with. If they really wanted to appeal to a wider audience with something all-ages, they should have just picked something that was originally all-ages to begin with or has an all-ages console port and maybe port it back to PC. [i realize that that porting it twice would take a lot of time and money, but it's a start.]

[Tay]

Just going to C&P what I posted on Aaeru's blog in response to a certain comment:

People are angry about this precisely BECAUSE it's not a console port. For instance, Sony doesn't allow ero content on their consoles, and that's a well-known fact. That's why when eroge are ported to the PSP, PSVita, etc, nobody minds the H content being cut. [Also, like sanahtling said, the original is still out there in addition to the port.]

Personally I have very mixed feelings about this. While I do commend their effort to bring visual novels to the west, KonoSora isn't a good title to start with. If they really wanted to appeal to a wider audience with something all-ages, they should have just picked something that was originally all-ages to begin with or has an all-ages console port and maybe port it back to PC. [i realize that that porting it twice would take a lot of time and money, but it's a start.]

Two really great points. -- I love this place sometimes. Great points all around.

I guess now we wait and watch. (From a less-cerebral place, I'll add that the art looks wonderful, and that I'm excited for the story)

[sanahtlig]

For instance, Sony doesn't allow ero content on their consoles, and that's a well-known fact.

I just wanted to point out that this argument is a slippery slope. Suppose MoeNovel was aiming for a Steam release. Would that make their actions any more justified or acceptable?