Discussion Which organization or site has done the most to promote VNs in the West?

[sanahtlig]

This is a thread to discuss the sites and organizations have done the most to promote VNs in the West over the ~25 years or so that VNs have existed in English.

I might eventually make a poll once the nominations here are in.

Here's some candidates off the top of my head:

• JAST USA / J-List
• Mangagamer
• Sekai Project / Denpasoft
• VNDB
• Hau Omochikaeri (Micchi's blog)
• Fuwanovel
• 4chan
• Steam
• Kickstarter
• YouTube
• Lemmasoft
• <insert pirate site here>

Personally I think VNDB has made a huge contribution to the growing popularity of VNs. VNDB is essentially the Wikipedia for VNs. It serves as a irreplaceable resource on VNs for the English-speaking community, especially untranslated VNs. It serves as a focal point where information on VNs is aggregated and then disseminated by fans. Before VNDB it was much more difficult to find information on VNs and the knowledge was far more dispersed. Without VNDB I'm not sure the fanbase would've been able to assemble into a cohesive force capable of expanding the audience for VNs. Fan translation may not have caught on and become popularized as it did.

[Kaguya]

Fuwanovel, of course 

 

Jokes aside, I'd probably say VNDB or Mangagamer. 

[Satsuki]

nyaa

I would say Steam and MG.

[Dark Ariel7]

VNDB. Fuwa is number one in my heart but I think the database does more for spreading information. 

[12kami]

VNDB

[Guest]

Steam and 4chan.

Especially 4chan with Katawa Shoujo. (So not really 4chan, it's 4 leaf studios)

 

I'd add youtube to the list. Even though it's not really youtube, but some youtubers that did a good job promoting them. (Or presenting them)

[Nashetania]

VNDB and Mangagamer.

[sanahtlig]

Steam and 4chan.

Especially 4chan with Katawa Shoujo. (So not really 4chan, it's 4 leaf studios)

 

I'd add youtube to the list. Even though it's not really youtube, but some youtubers that did a good job promoting them. (Or presenting them)

YouTube is worth mention, if only because Niconico Douga is registration gated.  If Niconico Douga were the dominant video sharing platform in the US, it would be bad for VNs and lots of other niche things.

[Deep Blue]

recently? Steam without any doubt, other than that I really not sure.

I don't know if you can mention 4chan even if you played Katawa shoujo most of the people dont know what 4chan is or that i was created by some users from there.

[Guest]

I also disagree that VNDB has done anything in terms of promoting.

It's a very Very useful tool for those who already know about VNs, but doesn't promote anything. (unless my understanding of the word promoting is wrong).

 

I can't imagine any situation where someone who is not familiar with Visual Novels would stumble upon VNDB.

 

The way I thought this through was : "I know Nothing about the genre, what site can make me discover it ?"

Meaning that any sitethat targets the community and not wider is not one that I consider is promoting anything, but rather is a useful ressource.

[kingdomcome]

I think you're completely correct Maefdomn.

 

VNDB and then Fuwanovel have been the most useful, BUT in regards to promoting VN's I would have to say Youtube. There are some big name gamers who have played VN's, otherwise I have not seen VN's promoted anywhere else.

All other sources like VNDV, Fuwa, Sekai Project and kickstarter are only useful once you are already searching for VN's.

[sanahtlig]

I think you're completely correct Maefdomn.

 

VNDB and then Fuwanovel have been the most useful, BUT in regards to promoting VN's I would have to say Youtube. There are some big name gamers who have played VN's, otherwise I have not seen VN's promoted anywhere else.

All other sources like VNDV, Fuwa, Sekai Project and kickstarter are only useful once you are already searching for VN's.

[Guest]

Yes, but there is a difference between the one providing the info, and the one spreading the word.

Maybe said youtuber knew VNDB, even though I highly doubt it and he was most likely advised by a viewer to play the game.

 

VNDB does not spread the word.

 

And yes, you are correct, it is the number one hit, but you have to know what to look for before.

 

Maybe a friend told you about a VN, in which case he was the one promoting, not VNDB

Maybe you saw a Youtube Walkthrough, in which case the youtuber promoted the game, not VNDB

Maybe you stumbled upon /vn/ or whatever it is named because for some -strange- reason you visit other 4chan boards (because 4 chan is about more than Visual Novels), in which case the 4chan community and site promoted the genre, not VNDB.

Same for steam.

 

You don't find VNDB with luck.

While it is worth the mention and did facilitate the access and helped newcomers (as in beginners and newbies) to find more about the genre, it isn't and most likely was never the spark which lit the fire. It's the gas if I pushed the metaphor further ^^.

 

Direct promotion is in my opinion much more important if one wants to promote a niche genre.

[Satsuki]

If you do a quick google on popular VNs that always get recommended to newbie, you will almost certainly get either Steam, Wiki or MyAnimelist on top, not vndb.

[sanahtlig]

I think the right way to think about this is: what if said organization or site had never existed.  Would VNs be as popular as they are now?  Indirect and network effects that triggered downstream consequences cannot be ignored.

 

What would a world without VNDB look like?  Fuwanovel?  YouTube?  Mangagamer?  Steam?  Have they all affected the spread of VNs equally?  I would say no--some of these are much more replaceable than others.

 

Would Sekai Project even exist right now if JAST had never existed?  Likely not, since it spawned from a licensing deal between JAST, Overflow, and a fan translation group over the game School Days!  Also by definition JAST is the more important player there, if only because it's been around longer and had time to affect the "worldline".

[Down]

There are two kinds of VN players you can create: the one that will play 1 to 5 VNs in his entire life and disappear after a few months/stick around communities but not for discussing VNs, and the one that will get interested in the media, talk about it, look forward to new titles and keep playing.

 

Sites like fuwanovel or Steam and games like Katawa Shoujo generate, for the overwhelming part, the first kind of players. Sites like VNDB, by their simple existence, allow the second type to exist.

 

My opinion is that the second kind of player is what really forms the core of a community and that therefore vndb is a more important website to have around.

 

I can't answer about the localization sites, they're all important in a way (JAST is the first, Mangagamer is the biggest/most interesting, Sekai Project provided a kick in the anthill).

[sanahtlig]

Mangagamer may very well have died if J-List weren't around to print and market their hard copies during a critical juncture when they almost went bankrupt (before nukige profits took off and Steam became an option).  Peter Payne's tentacles extend further than most people realize.

 

JAST would exist even if Mangagamer and Sekai Project had never coalesced.  But would they exist now if JAST hadn't tilled the soil for them?  Probably not.

[Silvz]

Only I thought of Anime? Some west players, me, only searched for VN's after watching the anime version, and without it wouldn't even get interested into VNs.

[sanahtlig]

Anime isn't an organization or site.  I specifically excluded abstract concepts because it would mire the discussion.

[Clephas]

In terms of serving as a tool for VN readers, vndb is a good choice... but in terms of actually 'spreading the word', the contributions of Mangagamer, Fuwanovel, and the fantl groups that surrounded the old TLwiki group can't be overlooked.  Fuwanovel's contributions are almost all recent (in the last three years), but when it comes to welcoming newbies, there is no community that does it better.  Mangagamer's activities have served as a realistic way to bring VNs over here commercially, serving as the base business model for other localization companies as well.  The old TLwiki and fantl groups that made up the 'ancient' community of 'hardcore' fans were the ones who really promoted non-nukige before Jast and other companies began to take bringing over more solid games seriously.  If it weren't for them, most people would still only see VNs as an excuse for sex scenes.

[Guest]

It's just two different objectives.

 

I think the importance of making the genre less niche is way higher than creating a community around the current one.

 

One is simply static and not prone to change. I (me !) want stuff to change, so yeah, there's no way I'd think promoting VNs internaly is more important than to new players.

The genre would benefit a lot from an influx of more casual players.

[sanahtlig]

It's just two different objectives.

 

I think the importance of making the genre less niche is way higher than creating a community around the current one.

 

One is simply static and not prone to change. I (me !) want stuff to change, so yeah, there's no way I'd think promoting VNs internaly is more important than to new players.

The genre would benefit a lot from an influx of more casual players.

[Guest]

I do not deny the necessity or utility, simply the relative importance.

[Eclipsed]

Moenovel / IMHHW was the first VN I found ever in whatever the hell I was searching at the time so let's go with that

Alotta newcomers tend to have Katawa Shoujo as their first VN so whatever leads them there.

The internet.

Google.

I'd go for Steam.

[Narcosis]

You forgot about LSF/Ren'Py community and Hau~ Omochikaeri~!

 

To answer your question, definately VNDB/visual-novels.net/Encubed/Gemot combo. It boogles me you forgot to even mention them on the list; they might not be active anymore, but it was those sites that began everything and most of the praise should go to them and their creators/maintainers.

 

At the moment, I'm always getting more useful information out of Ren's and Micchi's ramblings, than any other mentioned sources alltogether, although your typical average user is usually only interested in the western game lineups and couldn't care less about japanese industry.