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guys I solved it I solved it, I finally know why mmorpgs make female armor so skimpy     Sharty's face is just priceless

Picked up, or rather finally started Ace Attorney trilogy on my 3DS. Finished the first game, in the middle of Ep1 of the 2nd game, which is atm a shame because i expected Phoenix to start off veteran

Finished Sekien no Inganock, and holy fucking shitballs, why didn't I read this sooner? Seriously the atmosphere, the music, the charcters the story I think I may have found my next 10 on my vndb no e

1 hour ago, adamstan said:

How do you find it so far? I currently cannot decide what to read next, and Corona Blossom sits on my backlog...

For me, Corona Blossom is OK, but that's because I've played other "B" titles from Front Wing before starting this one (Pure Girl, Innocent Girl, and Yuki Koi Melt) and more or less can except how Corona Blossom will fare.

Obviously, it is not the title you want to consider if you really like the story to be deep, insightful, adventurous, epic, or close to literature quality. But it's a good easy read VN. I also like some of the character designs and the idea of the main character being fortunate to have all these girls around him.

Vol. 1 goes pretty slow and is mostly about raising an alien so like childcare (Will probably bore many people out). I'm told that Vol. 2 and 3 go into more adventure and action. I haven't touched those titles yet and I don't have a timeslot open for these volumes in the near future.

Spoiler

I feel that Frontwing has recycled some elements from its previous B titles.

Shino feels a lot like Shizuri from Yuki Koi Melt and a little bit of Hinako from Innocent Girl

Kumiko feels like Kanon from Yuki Koi Melt

R-ne feels like Kagari from Innocent Girl

 

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Just finished Fureraba. This vn can seriously give you diabetes. Translation aside, i the only thing i can pinpoint as not so good with this vn was that the heroines lost their flavour when you entered their routes. They went from having hobbies and having personalities to becoming very.. very.. Well, i want to say dull, but that's not it either. I just wish they'd keep their personalities from what you saw in the common route. Well, it certainly was fun as i did all routes.

Now on to Comyu for the second time. 

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2 hours ago, Stormwolf said:

the heroines lost their flavour when you entered their routes.

I had that feeling in Yuzuyu's route, but in others not so much. I especially liked Rina's route.

Or, it's not even that. I wouldn't say that Yuzuyu lost flavour, but the route did. I liked her very much as a character, but route itself was dull, without any tension.

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So, I just spent 5 hours over the last two days doing nothing other than labbing Fureraba. My findings:

- 1. getting flags with the girls through questioning isn't that important, because they can't progress past a certain point unless they hit a day in the calendar to have their phase-switching event on. For almost all of them, it's Saturday or Sunday. That means getting max affinity with a girl on monday makes it pointless for you to talk to her more that week, since the event has to happen before you can get new affinity points in the next phase

- 2. it's not possible to get all four girls to phase 4 and ready to confess. There simply aren't enough Saturdays for all the events to happen before the timer runs out (Each girl has four events and Misaki has an additional one, and she also can't be spoken to during the first two weeks). You can however max out three girls with some days to spare.

- 3. Getting two girls to stage 3 will trigger little scenes of them getting jealous of one another and unlock some additional dialogue during common route scenes. This applies to all girls except Misaki and if you have all three of the others on stage 3, you will see all the scenes (they don't override each other). These scenes are also not day-based like the character events, so they can happen early or late. 

That's it. If someone is wondering why I went and crammed through the common route 8+ times with the skip button for a title I finished around a year ago: ¯\_:rimu:_/¯ 

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21 minutes ago, adamstan said:

I had that feeling in Yuzuyu's route, but in others not so much. I especially liked Rina's route.

Or, it's not even that. I wouldn't say that Yuzuyu lost flavour, but the route did. I liked her very much as a character, but route itself was dull, without any tension.

Spoiler territory:

Spoiler

Both Yuzuyu and Rina went trough big personality changes. Yuzuyu was often mad and was pretty headstrong. Well, that all vanished. I expected her to at least have some outbursts trough her route. Rina was funny and cheery in the common route. She was into gaming etc, but all that vanished in her route as well. All we got was a pretty sappy tbh route with petty jealousy over super trivial matters. Himari was himari. Wish they didn't cut out protags mom at the end, but the route was good. Misaki was the best as her character progressed to the better trough her route, and she actually had stuff she liked.

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  • 6. Sound of Drop - fall into poison -, ~6 hours. I know that this VN has somewhat of a mixed reception among people, but I enjoyed it for what it was, even if some of the explanations for stuff were a bit silly.
  • 7. Us Lovely Corpses, ~30 minutes, about a witch rescuing her friend from the monster who regularly locks her in her attic. To be honest, even though this is a horror game, I didn't find it that scary. It works well as a drama, though, and the limited palette is interesting.
Spoiler

I related a lot to Marisol and her struggles with her mental illness. Some of those roses hurt to listen to, ouch.

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OK, i finished fata morgana, the 'ill never finish it' meme that's been going on for years is finallly over :Chocola:

It's a 9-10/10 VN honestly

A simply fantastic tale about tragedy, betrayal, vengeance, and a touch of romance spanning across centuries and generations

The narrative starts off episodic, with an amnesiac protagonist witnessing the memories and tragedies of the various inhabitants of a cursed mansion over multiple time periods under the  guidance of the enigmatic Maid, in order to eventually witness their own tragedy in an attempt to find out who they really are. Every story has its own characters, each facing their own conflicts and trials before inevitably succumbing to tragedy.

Eventually the protagonist does indeed witness their own tale, and the fun part begins when its revealed that every single major character from every story witnessed, despite being centuries apart, are all deeply intertwined in the glorious web of fate, all stemming from and revolving around a single focal point: an origin tragedy that predates them all and was so brutal it cursed these people and resulted in the creation of the cursed mansion and this endless cycle of despair and torment.

And so naturally it'll be up to the protagonist to save the day and it is a sight to behold. They are not without their share of baggage though, and witnessing their own personal story and the decisions they were able to commit to despite all the hardships they went through... was simply inspiring. One of the best protagonists in my VN career for sure.

Spoilersduh

Spoiler

C2DdsEL.jpg

Yup that's our boy Michel  :kosame:

The mystery behind the white haired girl is a decent one, I implore all new Fata Morgana readers to pay attention in particular to her interactions with the Maid throughout the episodic portions of the narrative, will make the midgame where you are finally learning about the protagonist more fun. There will be at least three plot twist revelations as to her identity and I got oof'ed in all of them cuz I'm ez.

Soundtrack phenomenal, at first can be hard to appreciate the more mature atmosphere and background vocals if you were more of a cutesy moe happy SoL type but once you do accept it these tracks augment the reading experience immensely. Many bgms eerily have the right amount of length and buildup that they are able to reach their high points just as the narrative does. idk if that made sense but you should see what i mean when you get to the many climaxes and plot revelations of the story and pay attention to the music :maple:

The Mutilated Body is probably hands down my favorite tragedy bgm ;-;;;

It starts picking up at 2:15 and i swear its what made me finally start tearing up at 
EXTREME SPOILERS

Spoiler

Didier killing Michel

Fking sad as hell man. Michel getting killed by his own brother he idolized, and his telling himself he won't cry, only for the CG to show him crying in his final moments. Absolutely beautifully tragic ;-;;.

 

Misc. comment  about the witch spoilersduh:

Spoiler

gqnptiK.jpg

RIP Morgana, centuries of hatred spawned over a misunderstanding LEL. 

Not her fault though. Jacopo once again utterly fails at his "ill wait until X" day to do something only to end up being too late by one day RIPPP

I'm glad she chose to end the curse but not forgive Mell, Yukimase, and especially not choose to smile for Jacopo. It's a very fitting and natural end to their relationship.

White haired girl being Saint Morgana through me for a loop, i was sure she was just female-reincarnated Michel after Ch 5... but i overall liked the poetic nature of her being the one who ironically fulfilled Morgana's curse on everyone along with her basing her image off of Michel and finally with Michel finally having to own up to his archangel Michael namesake and bring her soul to salvation

Overall enjoyed the romance between Michel and Giselle, i like how they were playing off Door 4 being a ridiculously fairy tale romanticized version of their relationship, yet ultimately their relationship IS a fairy tale: Michel choosing death and allowing/forcing Giselle to live for centuries as the Maid waiting for his return, how romantic.

I'm guessing Morgana's final wish before she vanished was for the two to have a happy life together, wonderful. These two earned it ^^

kNb36FU.jpg


~~
Ok, i'll have to check out a Requiem of Innocence since it's short and covers a pretty important segment regarding FataMorgana but lolwow i'm so behind :makina:

uZVXGvt.jpg

 

Then it's time for some MuvLuv, jesus i wonder how long it'll take me to get through this one :yumiko:

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11 hours ago, Eclipsed said:

OK, i finished fata morgana, the 'ill never finish it' meme that's been going on for years is finallly over :Chocola:

Wait, does this mean we won't have it as an option in the next "What should I play next?" thread??? :marie:

Oh, wait, there's still Requiem for Innocence. :illya:

 

Jokes aside, I really recommend it. It's just as good as the original game, maybe even better in some ways.

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I recently dropped Grisaia no Kajitsu after the first route (Makina) because I found it really disappointing. It's not terrible by any means and I can see why many people love it. Some of the comedy is great (I love Tuna-Fish Man), the characters are all interesting and a few of the backstories are really intense (I watched the anime after dropping the VN to at least know what the deal was Sachi and Amane, so I write about the routes I didn't read assuming the VN didn't drastically change after ~30 hours and the anime kept the basic storylines of the routes intact). The good ingredients never came together for me though, mainly because the ratio of SoL, foreshadowing and something actually happening was way to heavy on the former two. I didn't really dislike any of the scenes but every time one of them started with one of Yuuji's inner monologues (which was about 90% of the time) I thought "welp, nothing's gonna happen in this scene". I would probably have been fine with all the SoL if the VN wasn't constantly reminding me that all characters had some tragic/traumatic backstory that would later come as some big reveal. At some point I just wanted the VN to tell me what each heroine's deal was, not which order they are having their bath times in.

Additionally, using a character backstory as the main hook just isn't good storytelling imo because it's clear what kind of revelation is going to happen. If you already know there is going to be a sad backstory the only way to increase impact when the revelation happens is by adding shock value which is exactly what Grisaia no Kajitsu does. As I wrote above the backstories themselves are generally quite good, but most of the time they don't really add that much to their respective character arcs which (except for Sachi's and Michiru's route) consist of some random drama happening and Yuuji saving the day with his super soldier powers. It doesn't help that the heroines don't overcome their issues themselves but are more or less forced by Yuuji to learn their lessons. 

On that note I never really bought Yuuji falling in love with any of the girls since the difference in general capabilities is just too big and I also can't imagine him having a healthy romantic relationship with any one of them. Maybe the VN finds a way to pull this off well in the routes where I just watched the anime version, but judging on the Makina route where I found her and Yuuji's relationship just weird and unrealistic despite finding the premise kind of intriguing, I don't think I would change my mind.

I'm probably being way too harsh but for me personally Grisaia no Kajitsu just hit all the notes I hate in stories. If you don't have these issues, you're probably going to love it.

Regarding my issues with the overall pacing, I hoped the anime would do it better, but everywhere the VN is too slow, the anime rushes through things way too fast. After the first episode you already more or less knew what everyone's character twist was going to be and they had to cut so much out that it's hard to connect with any of the characters. If they had about 20-24 episodes to tell all the arcs it could have turned out well, but doing everything in just 13 episodes was a terrible choice.

Next up is Umineko which hopefully will be more to my taste.

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Well Kajitsu itself was quite divisive work. Also in regard of Yuuji, the main route was apparently addressed his lack of capability to be loving, but too bad that it wouldn't be happen in Kajitsu VN. Also as for the trivia here, Kajitsu here is supposed to be Frontwing's Swan Song before the sales of Kajitsu saved Frontwing, so they decided to go all out with the charage type writing and make i possible that the player could move on fom Grisaia in case Kajitsu was failed. Also I like to note that the anime here did tweak Kajitsu into the main route that was supposed to be the continuation for both of Meikyuu and Rakuen, so I assume that they may retcon some of Yuuji's personality in the anime. In the end it's still up to you though whether you want to continue with Kajitsu or not, but if you decided to just drop that then so be it and have fun with Umineko.

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3 hours ago, alpacaman said:

I recently dropped Grisaia no Kajitsu after the first route (Makina) because I found it really disappointing.

Welp, that's a shame. I quite enjoyed Grisaia even though I'm not the biggest fan of harem settings. Let me address quickly some of the points you brought up, just for the sake of looking at the other side of the coin. 

There's not much to say about the common route if you didn't find the comedy and SoL amusing. It's definitely very long and there's no helping it that it drags out if it's just not your cup of tea. 

As for the issue that the main point of the routes is the backstory... Well, kind of. It's actually supposed to be treating the emotional scars their past left them with, but I can definitely see where you are coming from, especially if you only read Makina's route, which is more like "action->backstory->more action unrelated to the backstory". Yes, the backstory feels kinda pointless. However, I'd say that for the rest of the routes the backstory is a lot more relevant as it carries onto the present situation. The romance is also a lot more believable. I mean, you didn't really expect the loli route to have the most compelling romance, did you? :makina:

If you don't totally despise the idea, if I were you I'd probably read one more route, just one, so that you don't drop the VN after getting through the common route but also don't waste too much time on it if it's definitely not for you. And the one I'd suggest is probably Amane's. Sachi is my favorite but whatever, it's a big hit or miss so why risk it. 

Also, the anime is terrible, period. Not worth even discussing. 

3 hours ago, alpacaman said:

Next up is Umineko which hopefully will be more to my taste

Oh yes! , so I'll have a umineko partner to share crazy theories with :nico: Almost done with episode 3 over here. I'll write my impressions and (great, mind you :Kappa:) deductions as soon as I finish it. 

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37 minutes ago, Thyndd said:

There's not much to say about the common route if you didn't find the comedy and SoL amusing. It's definitely very long and there's no helping it that it drags out if it's just not your cup of tea. 

It's not that I didn't like the comedy and SoL in general (I mean the TV programs are great and the writers are really good at doing physical humor), it's more about how it's going nowhere but still constantly reminds you that something darker is going on. And every time the story hints at something, the next scene is going to be about something completely different. Instead of Yuuji's inner monologue the writers could have put in "and now for something completely different".

 

55 minutes ago, Thyndd said:

As for the issue that the main point of the routes is the backstory... Well, kind of. It's actually supposed to be treating the emotional scars their past left them with, but I can definitely see where you are coming from, especially if you only read Makina's route, which is more like "action->backstory->more action unrelated to the backstory". Yes, the backstory feels kinda pointless. However, I'd say that for the rest of the routes the backstory is a lot more relevant as it carries onto the present situation. The romance is also a lot more believable. I mean, you didn't really expect the loli route to have the most compelling romance, did you? :makina:

I can just go by the route plots as presented by the anime, but my problem wasn't with the backstories feeling pointless but more with the fact that they were presented as some mystery although they were just character exposition. About the romance: I expected the loli route romance to not be very believable, but I can't imagine super soldier Yuuji having a healthy romantic relationship with any of these mentally broken girls. Maybe I really should read another route and see if I'm wrong. But at the moment I'm still tired of SoL.

 

1 hour ago, Thyndd said:

Oh yes! , so I'll have a umineko partner to share crazy theories with :nico: Almost done with episode 3 over here. I'll write my impressions and (great, mind you :Kappa:) deductions as soon as I finish it. 

I think the little girl is evil. Just look at her original sprite, it's terrifying! (I just started chapter 1)

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@alpacaman

To be honest, Makina route is the only one that should probably be read in the all-ages version. The romance between her and Yuuji is the least believable one in the whole VN, and it honestly only works if you just stop caring about this point.

1 hour ago, alpacaman said:

can't imagine super soldier Yuuji having a healthy romantic relationship with any of these mentally broken girls.

Yuuji is quite broken himself, you know. You can probably get the full extent of how broken he is only after you read his full backstory in the second VN, but, in the end, it's him who is the most broken person in that school. I'm not even sure if you can call any of his relationships with the girls "romantic" considering how far he goes sometimes. I think, that's exactly why these relationships do work, and I kind of feel like you came to these conclusion exactly because you watched the anime first, but, well, I won't argue with you.

Well, if you didn't like the common and Makina route, I honestly don't see much point for you to continue reading. And making yourself to read something that you don't like is the best way to burn out (I'm looking at you, Himawari). Sachi, Michiru and Yumiko routes all have some major problems in my opinion, though all of them have fans, so, I'm not sure if you should read them. And Amane route is written by the same author as Makina, so it might be better to avoid it too. I guess, you can try Sachi at some point to see if you like it more, and drop the game after that.

Also, avoid Rakuen. I can almost guarantee from the thing you write in your post that you won't like it (and, imo, it's the worst part in Grisaia anyway).

1 hour ago, alpacaman said:

I think the little girl is evil. Just look at her original sprite, it's terrifying! (I just started chapter 1)

Well, if you connect how the original sprites look to their personalities, then pretty much all of them look... as if they took part in a genocide or something. :wahaha: And the sprites Mangagamer used didn't really click with me either, so whenever I decide to replay it, I'll probably just go with the Umineko Project version (if they finish porting Chiru at that point).

Also, I still wonder if Ange supposed to look fat in the original...

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20 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

Yuuji is quite broken himself, you know. You can probably get the full extent of how broken he is only after you read his full backstory in the second VN, but, in the end, it's him who is the most broken person in that school. I'm not even sure if you can call any of his relationships with the girls "romantic" considering how far he goes sometimes. I think, that's exactly why these relationships do work, and I kind of feel like you came to these conclusion exactly because you watched the anime first, but, well, I won't argue with you.

Kajitsu is not very subtle about Yuuji being broken, so I guessed. But he still has a very dominant personality which imo isn't a good match with someone as fragile as these girls, especially if he should get unstable at some point. Many of the means Yuuji uses to help the girls would be considered abuse if his plans didn't (sometimes magically) work out, and I guess at least the girls would consider their relationships romantic. I tried to ignore the romance in Makina's route and didn't draw conclusions about the other routes' relationships from it because I knew it was going to be weird from the beginning. But still, from all the knowledge I have of the characters and the plot I can't imagine any couplesque relationship between Yuuji and one of the heroines that wouldn't result in him completely dominating the relationship.

But as I said, I'm basing this opinion only on the main and Makina route and the anime, so the character routes in the VN (and the sequels) might add some nuance.

 

58 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

Well, if you connect how the original sprites look to their personalities, then pretty much all of them look... as if they took part in a genocide or something. :wahaha: And the sprites Mangagamer used didn't really click with me either, so whenever I decide to replay it, I'll probably just go with the Umineko Project version (if they finish porting Chiru at that point).

Also, I still wonder if Ange supposed to look fat in the original...

All the sprites are ugly, but Maria looks like someone going through that part of puberty where everyone looks kind of gross, not like a nine year old girl. Her whole way of talking like a three year old only makes it worse. In a different setting she would make a great gnome or something like that while the others would at least pass as hobbits.

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28 minutes ago, alpacaman said:

Kajitsu is not very subtle about Yuuji being broken, so I guessed. But he still has a very dominant personality which imo isn't a good match with someone as fragile as these girls, especially if he should get unstable at some point. Many of the means Yuuji uses to help the girls would be considered abuse if his plans didn't (sometimes magically) work out, and I guess at least the girls would consider their relationships romantic. I tried to ignore the romance in Makina's route and didn't draw conclusions about the other routes' relationships from it because I knew it was going to be weird from the beginning. But still, from all the knowledge I have of the characters and the plot I can't imagine any couplesque relationship between Yuuji and one of the heroines that wouldn't result in him completely dominating the relationship.

Hmm I think I'm starting to understand. Yeah, definitely, Grisaia doesn't have the most wholesome romance out there. Yuuji is fucked up and the girls are fucked up, so their relationship is not healthy by any stretch if you stop to analyze it. For me it somehow works because it was interesting, and honestly I thought that Yuuji being an asshole could unironically be what those girls needed the most. Yeah, seriously. When you hate yourself for who and how you are like the last thing you need is an awkward smile and kindness out of pity. I for one don't think it's that unbeliavable that someone as blunt as Yuuji could be the only person those girls would open up to. 

Anyway, if you end up giving it another opportunity, I would still suggest Amane's route. With Sachi you'll come across pretty much every single issue you've had with Grisaia so far (aside from the FBI knocking on your door), so I think it'd be counter-productive. Amane's route is pretty much all backstory, and it's a really good story in and of itself. The romance? Messed up, but at least due to Amane's personality the "dominance" you talked about is less noticeable, so there's that.

 

Ok, so I finished Umineko episode 3. What an episode :wahaha: Let's break it down a little.

Spoiler

Moral of the story: never trust a witch that has outlived you for a thousand years! Let me tell ya, Beato, I didn't swallow your sudden change of heart, not for even a moment. Though I'll admit that dere Beato was 'cute' (as cute as a serial killer witch can be, at least) and somewhere deep inside I wished she had changed :yumiko:

Well then, with this episode what it's been made clear is that it does no longer matter whether witches exist or not. What's happening can be explained both by magic and by a human culprit/s, being both perspectives valid, in a way at least, only that the magic disappears when you "open the box", huh. I know for a fact that writers are weirdly fascinated with quantum mechanics and they are constantly trying to introduce quantum bullshit to explain every piece of fantasy that they still want to sound "sciency" (see Muv Luv), but I never thought I'd live to see the day in which quantum superposition would be used as a literary device. That's crazy :michiru: I guess some people didn't like the supernatural elements in Higurashi, so Ryukishi thought that he'd make a story with even MORE fantastical elements, but that could be fully explained with none of them, while at the same time still being an integral part of the story. 

I'm still wondering how the message in the bottle fits in here though. My guess is that that diary is used to explain from the human perspective why we are being told the story in such a way that includes all this fantasy, while from the non-human perspective, well, it'd just be the witch recreating the scene over and over. 

This episode also revealed quite a lot of the truth from the human perspective, actually. The hexagonal locked room was quite clarifying, for example. Since they never bother to show how the corpses are found and what people are doing in the meanwhile, I'll have to assume that there's no way anyone could tamper with the crime scene. It wouldn't be fair otherwise. In that case, it's the first time we get a lot of red info without other possible bullshit going on at the same time, so it's very valuable. Let's see:

-Beato's definition of a locked room/s

-There's no more than 18 people on Rokkenjima

-The six (Kinzo and the servants) are dead

-None of them commited suicide nor died from a trap or accident

Yeah, it looks impossible. I was mulling over it for a while, and there's only one possible solution I could think of. Someone is not who they claim to be. Out of those six who died, there has to be an impostor, the original person being already dead. That way, there'd be this little loophole about the "six being dead", but that group wouldn't have been updated to include the impostor, so that person would still be alive to create the locked room. I wished my man Battler, when he ran out of ideas, would have asked Eva-Beato if she could confirm that there were ONLY 3 people alive (Battler, Jessica and Eva) on Rokkenjima. Yeah, something tells me that she would've declined. The roundabout way she declared all of those statements, the only thing we can say for sure is that there are at least 3 people alive, and at least 15 corpses, BUT if one of those corpses was there from the beginning there would be no problem as at every moment the number of humans alive (and therefore, that 'exist') would be <= 18. 

I don't know, maybe I'm missing something and there's another possibility... I can't see it though. If my theory is correct, then the culprit would be one of the servants (I don't think Kinzo would be particularly easy to impersonate, having to keep his death hidden and everything...). Who? No idea yet, to be honest.

Welp, onto episode 4!

 

 

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https://vndb.org/v19737

Playing Hatsukoi Sankaime, finished Himeka and Misaki's route

Spoiler

What the hell, Himeka's route felt more like a true route compared to Misaki's which required you to finish someone else's route first. Himeka's route was very  dramatic and it spanned decaades(even if the timeskips were somtimes handwaved). Rin and Misaki are so cuteeeee. Rin is one of the cutest children I ever encountered in a VN. I didn't like Himeka much compared to Misaki but I really liked the plot since well, it's the kind of plot I like with all the conflicts and such, with both characters working incredibly hard

4

Good game, also the art for Yurino was kind of off-putting for me. Play for Himeka and Misaki, and also Rin.

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18 hours ago, Thyndd said:

With Sachi you'll come across pretty much every single issue you've had with Grisaia so far (aside from the FBI knocking on your door), so I think it'd be counter-productive.

I recommended Sachi because I thought that it manages its romance in the best way... but on second thought, yeah, maybe you're right. On the other hand, I still think that playing Michiru or Yumiko would be even more counterproductive. :michiru:

19 hours ago, ChaosRaven said:

Angelic Howl is the only thing in Grisaia that's really great

You know, I kind of agree with this part of your statement. This part definitely stood out above all others and, if it was released on its own, it could actually make a pretty great short VN. The other parts imo are just a nice way to waste your time. To be honest, I never really understood what exactly makes Grisaia as popular as it is, but I personally enjoyed it, and to me, well, it's pretty much all that matters.

18 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Ok, so I finished Umineko episode 3. What an episode :wahaha: Let's break it down a little.

Well, I hope I don't spoil anything that you aren't supposed to know yet, but I'll try to comment on some of your ideas. :leecher:

Spoiler
18 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Let me tell ya, Beato, I didn't swallow your sudden change of heart, not for even a moment.

Well, at least admit that Beato would still make a pretty good actress. :maple:

18 hours ago, Thyndd said:

I know for a fact that writers are weirdly fascinated with quantum mechanics and they are constantly trying to introduce quantum bullshit to explain every piece of fantasy that they still want to sound "sciency" (see Muv Luv), but I never thought I'd live to see the day in which quantum superposition would be used as a literary device.

It's a strange phenomenon which seems to imply that we know a lot less about reality than our intuitions tells us, and it's quite natural that many authors are fascinated by it, and considering that even physicists don't understand it very well, most of the works that use it tend to fail in capturing it in a believable way. Still, it's just as much a philosophical problem as it is a physical one, and Umineko mostly focuses on the philosophical side of the problem. Well, it manages to use them in a pretty fascinating way, sure. :sachi:

18 hours ago, Thyndd said:

I guess some people didn't like the supernatural elements in Higurashi, so Ryukishi thought that he'd make a story with even MORE fantastical elements, but that could be fully explained with none of them, while at the same time still being an integral part of the story. 

The main problem of the supernatural elements in Higurashi is that the make the mystery impossible to solve, because there are simply too many possibilities. Ryukishi addressed this problem in Umineko by introducing the red truth and making it so the supernatural parts wouldn't really matter in the end. If you assume that all magic scenes are true, than it makes Umineko an interesting fantasy tale with a very unique magic system. If you assume that all of them are just there to confuse you, it would make Umineko a very strange mystery series with lots of seemingly meaningless filler. In the end, it's mostly up to you to decide which interpretation you choose, if we assume that (or before :mare:) one of the interpretations isn't made impossible later in the story.

18 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Someone is not who they claim to be. Out of those six who died, there has to be an impostor, the original person being already dead.

Hmm, interesting. I obviously won't comment on whether you theory is true or not. :illya: So, you decide to make a wild guess who the real culprit could be, who would you choose right now?

19 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Welp, onto episode 4!

Well, good luck. What do you think of a certain new character so far, by the way? Actually, I don't know if you noticed that, but she is actually mentioned even in the Episode 1. Well, Umineko will definitely be a very fun VN to reread. :notlikemiya:

~~~

Well... I should probably also note at this point that Umineko is not always... very clear with what exactly some of its red truths supposed to mean, and it tends to use some questionable word tricks. It could partially be a problem with the translation, actually. Some sentences may have slightly different meanings in Japanese, so some of the red truths might be a bit misleading. But in the end, people actually did managed to find some contradictions with the "official explanation", which caused all these original theories to appear, but I honestly think that they are just overthinking everything a bit too much.

Also, never use Ctrl-Z when typing forum posts. I had to rewrite almost half of this post because of that. :makina:

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1 hour ago, Dreamysyu said:

I recommended Sachi because I thought that it manages its romance in the best way... but on second thought, yeah, maybe you're right. On the other hand, I still think that playing Michiru or Yumiko would be even more counterproductive. :michiru:

You know, I kind of agree with this part of your statement. This part definitely stood out above all others and, if it was released on its own, it could actually make a pretty great short VN. The other parts imo are just a nice way to waste your time. To be honest, I never really understood what exactly makes Grisaia as popular as it is, but I personally enjoyed it, and to me, well, it's pretty much all that matters.

Well, I hope I don't spoil anything that you aren't supposed to know yet, but I'll try to comment on some of your ideas. :leecher:

  Reveal hidden contents

Well, at least admit that Beato would still make a pretty good actress. :maple:

It's a strange phenomenon which seems to imply that we know a lot less about reality than our intuitions tells us, and it's quite natural that many authors are fascinated by it, and considering that even physicists don't understand it very well, most of the works that use it tend to fail in capturing it in a believable way. Still, it's just as much a philosophical problem as it is a physical one, and Umineko mostly focuses on the philosophical side of the problem. Well, it manages to use them in a pretty fascinating way, sure. :sachi:

The main problem of the supernatural elements in Higurashi is that the make the mystery impossible to solve, because there are simply too many possibilities. Ryukishi addressed this problem in Umineko by introducing the red truth and making it so the supernatural parts wouldn't really matter in the end. If you assume that all magic scenes are true, than it makes Umineko an interesting fantasy tale with a very unique magic system. If you assume that all of them are just there to confuse you, it would make Umineko a very strange mystery series with lots of seemingly meaningless filler. In the end, it's mostly up to you to decide which interpretation you choose, if we assume that (or before :mare:) one of the interpretations isn't made impossible later in the story.

Hmm, interesting. I obviously won't comment on whether you theory is true or not. :illya: So, you decide to make a wild guess who the real culprit could be, who would you choose right now?

Well, good luck. What do you think of a certain new character so far, by the way? Actually, I don't know if you noticed that, but she is actually mentioned even in the Episode 1. Well, Umineko will definitely be a very fun VN to reread. :notlikemiya:

~~~

Well... I should probably also note at this point that Umineko is not always... very clear with what exactly some of its red truths supposed to mean, and it tends to use some questionable word tricks. It could partially be a problem with the translation, actually. Some sentences may have slightly different meanings in Japanese, so some of the red truths might be a bit misleading. But in the end, people actually did managed to find some contradictions with the "official explanation", which caused all these original theories to appear, but I honestly think that they are just overthinking everything a bit too much.

Also, never use Ctrl-Z when typing forum posts. I had to rewrite almost half of this post because of that. :makina:

I will never understand the Yumiko route. It must be some terribly stupid japanese thinkining. She hated her father and she hated his business. What does she do? Of course she inherits it. The bad end where they made a life for themselves with hard work etc was much better.

Edited by Stormwolf
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1 hour ago, Dreamysyu said:

It's a strange phenomenon which seems to imply that we know a lot less about reality than our intuitions tells us, and it's quite natural that many authors are fascinated by it, and considering that even physicists don't understand it very well, most of the works that use it tend to fail in capturing it in a believable way. Still, it's just as much a philosophical problem as it is a physical one, and Umineko mostly focuses on the philosophical side of the problem. Well, it manages to use them in a pretty fascinating way, sure.

Oh yeah, that's for sure, I didn't mean to say that it wasn't fascinating, but that writers using it nonchalantly in order to attempt to justify pretty much any weird fantasy is somewhat puzzling to me. You can just say it's fantasy, and no one would really complain (I never had an issue with this aspect in Muv Luv, for example, for it to be warranted to kill the few operative brain cells I have left with all that infodump bullshit XD). Umineko, as I currently understand it (which may or may not change in less than an hour :leecher:), makes clear that it's fantasy, while still using this phenomenon as a metaphor for how this literary metaverse works. It's really clever, and I'm loving it.

1 hour ago, Dreamysyu said:

The main problem of the supernatural elements in Higurashi is that the make the mystery impossible to solve, because there are simply too many possibilities.

Hmm well, it's indeed impossible to solve why the story is repeating itself, but beyond that, most pieces you can actually put together and have a perfectly reasonable explanation... as long as you are willing to accept Hinamizawa syndrom as something not too far away from the realm of reality. Admittedly this can be a bit of a stretch for some people, and as you said, before knowing that it exists it's (almost?) impossible to deduce it from the evidence you are shown... there's just to many variables. However, I personally didn't find it to be that big a deal for the enjoyment of the VN as a whole. As a matter of fact, it's one of my all time favorites :sachi:

1 hour ago, Dreamysyu said:

Hmm, interesting. I obviously won't comment on whether you theory is true or not. :illya: So, you decide to make a wild guess who the real culprit could be, who would you choose right now?

Hmm... you're putting me on the spot there :yumiko: The thing is, I can only say that I suspect the culprit to be among those 6 for episode 3. I don't know if it's just one single culprit, and there could be a very complex net of situations and accomplices. Also for what it's worth, I must say that I'm following the classical quote "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth". That is, I find it extremely hard to believe that someone could disguise themselves as an already dead person and nobody would notice, even if it's just a servant and not a family member (this is not Meitantei Conan ffs!). On the other hand, if that's not it, that'd mean that the impostor had been impersonating the original for as long as every member of the Ushiromiya familiy can remember. That solves this problem, but creates an even bigger one: how did they fake their death in the hexagonal locked room? In this case there wouldn't be any corpse to use as a substitute. Ok, the red truth could still shamelessly say that the six persons were dead, but what about the people inspecting the victims? ... Is Nanjo an accomplice then?

Furthermore, this would also mean that this culprit would have been faking their death in every episode, since every servant "died" in one way or another... While this would come in handy to explain all those incidents that "only a 19th person could've done", it's still extremely hard to believe... Fuck, I don't know. And to make it worse I, like Battler, don't really want to suspect some people like Kanon and Shannon. Like, in this 3rd episode someone killed George, and I assume it's not Eva (not a logical assumption, it's just that I refuse to believe she'd kill her beloved son), but how could I suspect Shannon? In the 2nd episode someone killed Jessica, and the most suspicious person, as everyone said, would be Kanon. But can I really believe that Kanon would kill her? Damn it. Zenzen dame da.

So ok, I'll throw Genji, Gohda or Kumasawa out there. Not for any particular reason. They are just the ones I feel less conflicted suspecting :makina: 

1 hour ago, Dreamysyu said:

Well, good luck. What do you think of a certain new character so far, by the way? Actually, I don't know if you noticed that, but she is actually mentioned even in the Episode 1.

Oh yeah, Ange huh, I certainly remember they mentioned right at the beginning of episode 1 that Battler had a little sister that couldn't come with them because she was ill. As for what I think about her... not much for the time being I guess. What I found most interesting and thought provoking in this Tea Party was the fact that the best way Eva could think of to ruin Ange's life was leaving her the inheritance. All that about not being able to trust anyone anymore... it made me think that it's probably one big reason why you always see rich and famous people married to someone with their same social status. It's not necessarily out of any superiority complex.

 

Edited by Thyndd
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