What are you playing?

[Inorin]

2 hours ago, Thyndd said:

So I'm at episode 9 of MLA, and I think it deserves to pause for a minute and appreciate how amazing the wordbuilding is and how much care for detail they poured into it. And I'm not only referring to the technical details (leaving aside the quantum bullshit, that is ), which of course are important, but in my opinion less so than the true gem that is the society it builds. It's so damn realistic that it legit scares me. In the spoiler I'm going to elaborate on this a little. It's not going to contain major spoilers, but if you prefer reading MLA totally blind then it's probably for the best if you avoided it.

  Hide contents

Ok, let's start with our own real world. In a world so culturally diverse, we had to learn the hard way that morality is far from objective. Every culture on earth, in every period of time, has a moral code ingrained in the collective mind that provides them with a sense of right or wrong, and different cultures have different codes. There are no absolutes. Thus we have to accept that, as much as we want to believe otherwise, our sense of rightness is not intrinsically superior to that of other people. 

Ok, that's for morality. Then we have ethics. Ethics attempts to build a code of conduct based on more objective criteria and upon agreement, and amongst the vast amount of criteria that are taken into account, probably the most important one is the common good, that is, the well-being of a majority takes precedence over the well-being of a minority. In our world that is of course not always the case. While the common good criteria is still really important, there are some individual rights that we consider unquestionable. For example, while human experimentation in medicine most certainly would benefit a great majority, however our current ethical code doesn't allow us to trespass the individual rights to life and "freedom". So there's this kind of balance, so to speak... which is actually very fragile and in a dire situation like war is the first thing that goes out the window. Not only that, but people usually ACCEPT that it has to be that way, giving birth to a new ethical code, even though their moral code cannot change in such a short period of time. That's not to say that they won't feel conflicted about it. Of course they will. And that's also not to say that all people will easily come to terms with it. They won't, hence the multiple methods of coaxing that originated during our history and MLA so beautifully displays, such as:

-Nationalism. It's been shown how easy it is to spur a sense of belonging to a group and make the members feel superior with respect to those who don't belong. This is easily exploitable to justify horrifying acts that a priori would seem unthinkable. In fact, it's my belief that every epic narrative ever employs this tactic to move the reader, including of course Muv Luv.

-Comradeship. Which is actually what is left from the previous point when the horrors of war break your flimsy heroic and patriotic ideals. As captain Isumi so wisely said, when you are face to face with death all you can think about is to protect your own life and the lives of your comrades in arms, with whom you overcame so many hardships. I'm fortunately no war vet, but I can totally see that being the case. That's why it's so important in the military to foster a sense of camaraderie.

-Fear and hatred. You fear what you cannot comprehend, and you are prone to hate what you fear. That's how we humans work, and again it's so easy to redirect that fear and hatred to the enemy and convince soldiers to risk their lives.

So yeah. The social behaviour in MLA is not original because it doesn't need to be. It's instead a really accurate picture of our history and ourselves.

I agree with all your points that MLA teaches you. but I think you're also missing a important point, which is

 

the transition of adolescence to adulthood. In Extra, we have our typical dense and bratty protagonist, Shirogane Takeru. In Unlimited, he's still dense af but shows a somewhat noticeable change in his attitude as he adjusts to the military. Here, many would have thought Takeru was ready to take on the BETA (I certainly did) as he showcases his excellent piloting skills, but Alternative makes you realise how wrong you were (i.e the most important trait to have in war is your mental strength, rather than your physical strength and technical skills). In the Yokohoma Base Incident (where CHOMP took place), Takeru was / we were made to realise (painfully) the harsh reality of the world in Alternative. After all his escapism and depression bouts, he becomes a more mature person in a sense, with his usual complaining and hesitation all toned down. And that's why we can have this kind of Takeru whom we all love

Edited March 30, 2018 by wei123

[Thyndd]

2 minutes ago, wei123 said:

I agree with all your points that MLA teaches you. but I think you're also missing a important point, which is

  Hide contents

the transition of adolescence to adulthood. In Extra, we have our typical dense and bratty protagonist, Shirogane Takeru. In Unlimited, he's still dense af but shows a somewhat noticeable change in his attitude as he adjusts to the military. Here, many would have thought Takeru was ready to take on the BETA (I certainly did) as he showcases his excellent piloting skills, but Alternative makes you realise how wrong you were (i.e the most important trait to have in war is your mental strength, rather than your physical strength and technical skills). In the Yokohoma Base Incident (where CHOMP took place), Takeru was / we were made to realise (painfully) the harsh reality of the world in Alternative. After all his escapism and depression bouts, he becomes a more mature person in a sense, with his usual complaining and hesitation all toned down. And that's why we can have this kind of Takeru after CHOMP

Spoiler

I mean, I dunno about this "transition" to adulthood, since I'm pretty sure almost every "adult" in peaceful and developed countries takes their rights for granted, but I do agree that it's in a lot of senses an eye-opener.

 

[Ranzo]

21 hours ago, Jun Inoue said:

Ah, I see. I had actually found your review while doing Google fu, which added to the confusion with the MC and all.

I'll probably give it a shot, then, if anything out of trust in you and Minato Soft, and for fairness sake.

@Ranzo Hope I don't throw my mouse to the screen in frustration, as I'm somewhat picky with MCs (really, who isn't). 

You have me scared with mentioning the sister, though. I'm already generally unconvinced by incest, so...

He's not that bad I think he does have his occasional moments. For one thing I like the fact that he will just chat normally with super aggressive people like it's no thang.

She's one of the worst characters I've ever seen. She's annoying, super clingy, and just so one note

[Thyndd]

Well then, this is the penultimate post I'll write about MLA. The next one will be once I actually finish it in order to give my final thoughts. I think I should have around 5 or 6 more hours left to go.

Spoiler

As afraid as I am to come off as some sort of monster, I actually laughed at the tentacle rape scene (I read both the all-ages version and the 18+, to clarify). I swear I tried to feel bad for Sumika, but the way it's written is so over the top and ridiculous that for a moment I thought I was reading Bible Black or something of the sort. Come on, they could've made it a little less hentai-like, couldn't they? 

The dialogue that came afterwards was sweet though and my eyes misted over a little 

 

[Dreamysyu]

41 minutes ago, Thyndd said:

Well then, this is the penultimate post I'll write about MLA. The next one will be once I actually finish it in order to give my final thoughts. I think I should have around 5 or 6 more hours left to go.

  Hide contents

As afraid as I am to come off as some sort of monster, I actually laughed at the tentacle rape scene (I read both the all-ages version and the 18+, to clarify). I swear I tried to feel bad for Sumika, but the way it's written is so over the top and ridiculous that for a moment I thought I was reading Bible Black or something of the sort. Come on, they could've made it a little less hentai-like, couldn't they? 

The dialogue that came afterwards was sweet though and my eyes misted over a little 

 

 

Does this way of inserting spoilers work? Well, I'll try to be vague in case it doesn't.

 

It's actually quite funny how different reactions for this scene are. Some people think it's very fitting, and some say that it's literally the worst scene of the whole novel and should've been removed. Just one moment: it is hentai, so asking it to be less hentai-like is a bit strange.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Dreamysyu

[Thyndd]

2 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

  Hide contents

Does this way of inserting spoilers work? Well, I'll try to be vague in case it doesn't.

 

It's actually quite funny how different reactions for this scene are. Some people think it's very fitting, and some say that it's literally the worst scene of the whole novel and should've been removed. Just one moment: it is hentai, so asking it to be less hentai-like is a bit strange.

Spoiler

Yep, it seems it works fine.

Well yes, it is hentai, but must it be? Why should it embrace all the tropes of a cheap hentai when so far it's been a serious story? I for one cannot take it seriously. My best effort would be an attempt at justification by saying that it portrays the filthiness Sumika was feeling so guilty about, but even then, I can't help but think that there were much better ways to do it that don't take you out of the narrative like that.

 

[ChaosRaven]

4 minutes ago, Thyndd said:

  Hide contents

Yep, it seems it works fine.

Well yes, it is hentai, but must it be? Why should it embrace all the tropes of a cheap hentai when so far it's been a serious story? I for one cannot take it seriously. My best effort would be an attempt at justification by saying that it portrays the filthiness Sumika was feeling so guilty about, but even then, I can't help but think that there were much better ways to do it that don't take you out of the narrative like that.

 

Spoiler

It was actually the same for me. The scene was so misplaced and silly that it was simply impossible to take it seriously.

The whole thing felt like the writer considered it a matter of 'National Pride' that a Japanese VN with alien monsters HAS to include tentacle rape - no matter what XD. I've probably never laughed so much about a tentacle rape scene than the one in MLA. Not that I'd have read a lot of them - not exactly my type of fetish. I think the last one I've seen was from Ourai no Gahkthun, and that one was pretty silly too. It didn't reach the ridiculous bogus level of the one in MLA though.

 

[Dreamysyu]

16 minutes ago, Thyndd said:

  Hide contents

Yep, it seems it works fine.

Well yes, it is hentai, but must it be? Why should it embrace all the tropes of a cheap hentai when so far it's been a serious story? I for one cannot take it seriously. My best effort would be an attempt at justification by saying that it portrays the filthiness Sumika was feeling so guilty about, but even then, I can't help but think that there were much better ways to do it that don't take you out of the narrative like that.

 

Well, it's quite common for VNs to have h-scenes that feel unnecessarily fetishistic, even though they make sense in the story. Let's be real, the main reason this scene was there was to make this VN 18+ and market it as such. At the same time, for me personally this scene worked pretty well, comparing it to some other h-scenes in other VNs, and I think it's actually quite fitting there. To think about it, this scene was fully narrated by Sumika, and her goal there was to alienate Takeru from herself, and that's why she chose to narrate it this way. Do I think this scene could be done better? Yeah, definitely. Like you say, cheap hentai tropes are there, and they do require some suspension of disbelief. Still, I'm personally satisfied with what we have.

[Inorin]

1 hour ago, Thyndd said:

 

  Hide contents

As afraid as I am to come off as some sort of monster, I actually laughed at the tentacle rape scene (I read both the all-ages version and the 18+, to clarify). I swear I tried to feel bad for Sumika, but the way it's written is so over the top and ridiculous that for a moment I thought I was reading Bible Black or something of the sort. Come on, they could've made it a little less hentai-like, couldn't they? 

The dialogue that came afterwards was sweet though and my eyes misted over a little 

 

 

You monster; that's no laughing matter! 

Ok on a more serious note, my take on it is that the event's necessary, but the way they portray it should be toned down.  Though I understand where the developers are coming from, since the scene is there to shock and disgust you. Hence, for maximum impact they decide to go for a more visual scene, though this makes it look like a scene straight out of a nukige.

Edited March 30, 2018 by wei123

[Trickay]

Good luck and enjoy the finale Thyndd.

MLA Spoilers:

I actually found the scene very fitting for explaining her motives and mental distress, I really enjoyed how it was done, but I did read the steam all ages version. While I'll admit it was a shocking and impactful for me at the time, I think it holds more relevance at the end and is definitely required. I was surprised to learn that they hadn't shown the gore in the 18+ version. Especially when Sumika's description vividly explains them dismantling her.

Oh and wei123 I totally agree with your thoughts on Takeru's character progression, reminds me of FSN Fate to Heavens Feel with Shirou.

 

 

[littleshogun]

Finished with Emilia's route at Hatsukoi Sankaime, and overall it was very light. As for Emilia, she was more or less a shy girl who afraid of ghost, and come as the transfer student from Russia. For the next route I'll go with Yurino's route, and I'll explain the reason for the route order when I finish with Sui's (The litthe sister) route.

As for Emilia's seiyuu, she was Momoi Ichigo in which it was the second time she was voiced a foreigner after DD. This time she show her new tone though, which is interesting considering that it was pretty different compared to DD (And Runa as well) - make sense considering what Emilia's character is.

Edit (12/16) - As for Emilia's route here actually her route did contain some additional info in regard of the setting (Kirigamine)

Spoiler

in that she's one of the earlier residents alongside her grandmother who been already dead. Also Emilia's grandmother here is the respected scientist that develop Kirigamine into high tech island that the cast have. For Emilia's story, she did suffer some memory loss because the death of her grandmother causing her to misremeber something, especially in regard of her meeting with her grandmother ghost in which instead of Kirigamine Emilia remember that she saw the ghost at the Russia. For more spoiler here, Emilia's route did consist of her grandmother ghost hunter, and Emilia only knew that the ghost is her grandmother at the ending.

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by littleshogun

[PiggiesGoMoo]

On 3/28/2018 at 4:30 AM, PiggiesGoMoo said:

I am about to start reading Subahibi, and am a bit nervous lol

Am in the midst of reading It's My Own Invention. I have a remote guess as to what's happening, but there is so much weird abstract shit that it's hard to come to any conclusions whatsoever.  I mean this is borderline "Art Movie" territory where the actual events of the story are so incoherent that you have to interpret everything metaphorically/symbolically, including the characters themselves, which are portrayed in a way that suggests they are just figments of the protagonist's "world" rather than their own independent existence.

There is also a pretty nasty, brutal scene that made me want to vomit.  Like come on now, did you really have to go into that level of detail? And I've yet to reach the worst scenes from what I've heard...

One thing that's interesting is that there seems to be a lot of Christian symbolism. Many crosses, and even a tree of life (I think it's the tree of life because it has 12 "fruits", exactly like in Revelations, except it's depicted as having 12 eyes looking at the protagonist).  There are so many esoteric references in this VN that it's starting to seem a bit contrived...

 

EDIT: Omg the desk... this is so depraved and ridiculous...

EDIT2: Ok, the story gets more coherent as this chapter progresses. While still bizarre, at least I have some idea as to what is happening.

Edited March 31, 2018 by PiggiesGoMoo

[Dreamysyu]

28 minutes ago, PiggiesGoMoo said:

EDIT: Omg the desk... this is so depraved and ridiculous...

 No badmouthing my waifu!

I mean, come on! Just look at her:

Spoiler

Isn't she the cutest thing ever?

[PiggiesGoMoo]

7 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

 No badmouthing my waifu!

I mean, come on! Just look at her:

  Reveal hidden contents

Isn't she the cutest thing ever?

[Trickay]

On 27/03/2018 at 3:01 PM, Dergonu said:

Alright, finished Kikokugai, and man, I loved it. The setting was really cool, the writing was fantastic, and the art in the remake is just...

I'm glad I grabbed this Dergonu, I just couldn't put it down this evening. I've not finished it yet but she's 60% if you know what I mean. 

I cannot wait to find out the reasons behind the betrayal.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Trickay
Typos

[r0xm2n]

Still playing Himawari....

Spoiler

END "Hinata Aoi"

For what is technically a "bad ending" ...... that was sure surreal, peaceful ...... and full of sunflowers!

This visual novel at times man....

[Trickay]

 I've got Lucy sat in my Steam library too, I guess everyone got the same humble bundle?

Still playing and planning to finish Kikokugai this evening, this also raises questions about the human/AI/cyborg interface and where the line should be drawn; I'm really enjoying it so far and it feels like a nice short read.

Oh this backwards April fools is hurting my eyes!

 

EDIT: Ignore that, I was somehow on 'page 557', I blame April fools!

Edited April 1, 2018 by Trickay
month old posts. Replied to

[Inorin]

Now that I'm finally done with the Muv Luv Alternative Chronicles (at least for the translated volumes), I will now move on to Dies Irae which has been sitting on my backlog for months. Maybe I will resume reading subahibi after that but I'm still a bit unprepared on what's to come

Edited April 1, 2018 by wei123

[Trickay]

How were Sumika, Meiya and Kashiwagi's routes wei123, worth a read?
I think I may wait for Photon Melodies and Flowers to be completed, I believe they include some of Alterd Fable?

How was the volley ball?

[Inorin]

8 minutes ago, Trickay said:

How were Sumika, Meiya and Kashiwagi's routes wei123, worth a read?
I think I may wait for Photon Melodies and Flowers to be completed, I believe they include some of Alterd Fable?

How was the volley ball?

Well to me the individual routes didn't really matter since it's the common route that matters most but I would say they were pretty decent. Oh, the volleyball? Ha, I will be damned but to win it is close to impossible. Not that it matters though, since winning or losing it has no bearing on which route you choose

Edited April 1, 2018 by wei123

[Thyndd]

MuvLuv Alternative finished!

  Gosh, what a rollercoaster it's been. It's gonna be hard to put into words, and the current state of the forums doesn't help either 

Actually I think I'll edit this post when it's back to normal. Writing like this is torture.

EDIT:

Ok, here we go! 

Spoiler

Muv Luv is probably the boldest idea I've ever seen in any form of media. Now that I've finished the trilogy I definitely can appreciate what they intended to do with Extra, and to a lesser extent, with Unlimited. I mean, I knew beforehand that things were gonna get ugly in Alternative, so it was not hard to deduce that there would be a stark contrast between both atmospheres playing for shock value, but now I can clearly see that the objectives in Extra go way beyond that. You see, I believe the strongest point of Muv Luv is how immersive it can be. Every single detail is aimed at making you feel as a part of that world. Granted, Extra is almost as cliched as it gets, but precisely because of that it's fairly relatable: just a normal life, with some quirks for comedic purposes, but nothing too hard to accept. By doing this and dragging it A LOT, MuvLuv is trying to accomplish several things at once: get you acquainted with the characters, sure. They need to feel like friends you've known forever; by sheer virtue of its duration, you are bound to feel, want it or not, as if that story and characters belong to your reality; and last and most importantly, it's going to bore the fuck out of you... but why do you feel like that? Well, because at first you start MuvLuv with the same mentality you approach every piece of fiction. You expect it to be something different, something unique that would never happen to you, an adventure. I mean, that's pretty much the whole point of reading fiction, right? But what do you get? Nothing. Or rather, you get a mirror image of your life, that is, a normal life. So you get bored, and understandably so. You are begging for all the action and interesting stuff to go down... and then you get to Alternative. And the MC Takeru gets excited. And you get excited with him, because shit is about to happen, and you waited like 30h for it. This is the point where all the buildup from Extra/Unlimited was trying to get you, while at the same time having you feel extremely familiar with the Muv Luv universe.

I think there's no need to say what happens next  Shit goes wrong, unbelievably wrong for what you initially expect from this kind of stories, but totally understandable and realistic if you are willing to accept it as reality, which at this point is hardly an issue. Muv Luv plays like this with your mind. It's the kind of story you would never wish to immerse yourself, but by the time you realise that it's already too late: you are one with Takeru and the metaverse. And oh how you wish you could go back to the distant days of Extra, far away from all the suffering and despair that shroud Alternative. So much so that I legit teared up when during the PTSD arc when Takeru returns for a brief period of time and you get to see again that world.

One thing that I see a lot of people complains about is the pacing, being one of the major issues that I've seen often brought up regarding Alternative. I agree and disagree. It's absolutely true that the pacing is atrocious, but again, I'm inclined to believe that it's deliberate as yet another immersion strategy. They make you feel like you are Takeru, living you everyday life in that world. That wouldn't work so well with a different pacing, I think. 

I have my issues with the ending though. I've never been a fan of the "it's like it's never happened" kind of ending. I get that it was implied that Takeru, in his current state as a persona, would never fit again in his old world (which I don't think it's necessarily true, but whatever), but to be honest I was hoping for him to end up remembering everything and telling Sumika, just as he said he would if he got back to his world. I think it's pretty lame that everything they went through and connect them together more strongly than ever, and all the evolution and growth Takeru did as a person just disappeared into thin air. Nope, not a fan, definitely.

Anyway, Muv Luv was a truly unforgettable experience, and in spite of being so damn long, I polished it off in barely 2 weeks, which is to say something.

Well, and that's it. And as always, thank you all so much for being there to exchange thoughts and impressions. It definitely makes this all the more enjoyable 

I think I'll be reading Sharin no Kuni next for a change of pace. I feel like reading something lighter now, after all the info dumping that has MLA 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Thyndd

[Inorin]

22 hours ago, Thyndd said:

MuvLuv Alternative finished!

  Gosh, what a rollercoaster it's been. It's gonna be hard to put into words, and the current state of the forums doesn't help either 

Actually I think I'll edit this post when it's back to normal. Writing like this is torture.

EDIT:

Ok, here we go! 

  Hide contents

Muv Luv is probably the boldest idea I've ever seen in any form of media. Now that I've finished the trilogy I definitely can appreciate what they intended to do with Extra, and to a lesser extent, with Unlimited. I mean, I knew beforehand that things were gonna get ugly in Alternative, so it was not hard to deduce that there would be a stark contrast between both atmospheres playing for shock value, but now I can clearly see that the objectives in Extra go way beyond that. You see, I believe the strongest point of Muv Luv is how immersive it can be. Every single detail is aimed at making you feel as a part of that world. Granted, Extra is almost as cliched as it gets, but precisely because of that it's fairly relatable: just a normal life, with some quirks for comedic purposes, but nothing too hard to accept. By doing this and dragging it A LOT, MuvLuv is trying to accomplish several things at once: get you acquainted with the characters, sure. They need to feel like friends you've known forever; by sheer virtue of its duration, you are bound to feel, want it or not, as if that story and characters belong to your reality; and last and most importantly, it's going to bore the fuck out of you... but why do you feel like that? Well, because at first you start MuvLuv with the same mentality you approach every piece of fiction. You expect it to be something different, something unique that would never happen to you, an adventure. I mean, that's pretty much the whole point of reading fiction, right? But what do you get? Nothing. Or rather, you get a mirror image of your life, that is, a normal life. So you get bored, and understandably so. You are begging for all the action and interesting stuff to go down... and then you get to Alternative. And the MC Takeru gets excited. And you get excited with him, because shit is about to happen, and you waited like 30h for it. This is the point where all the buildup from Extra/Unlimited was trying to get you, while at the same time having you feel extremely familiar with the Muv Luv universe.

I think there's no need to say what happens next  Shit goes wrong, unbelievably wrong for what you initially expect from this kind of stories, but totally understandable and realistic if you are willing to accept it as reality, which at this point is hardly an issue. Muv Luv plays like this with your mind. It's the kind of story you would never wish to immerse yourself, but by the time you realise that it's already too late: you are one with Takeru and the metaverse. And oh how you wish you could go back to the distant days of Extra, far away from all the suffering and despair that shroud Alternative. So much so that I legit teared up when during the PTSD arc when Takeru returns for a brief period of time and you get to see again that world.

One thing that I see a lot of people complains about is the pacing, being one of the major issues that I've seen often brought up regarding Alternative. I agree and disagree. It's absolutely true that the pacing is atrocious, but again, I'm inclined to believe that it's deliberate as yet another immersion strategy. They make you feel like you are Takeru, living you everyday life in that world. That wouldn't work so well with a different pacing, I think. 

I have my issues with the ending though. I've never been a fan of the "it's like it's never happened" kind of ending. I get that it was implied that Takeru, in his current state as a persona, would never fit again in his old world (which I don't think it's necessarily true, but whatever), but to be honest I was hoping for him to end up remembering everything and telling Sumika, just as he said he would if he got back to his world. I think it's pretty lame that everything they went through and connect them together more strongly than ever, and all the evolution and growth Takeru did as a person just disappeared into thin air. Nope, not a fan, definitely.

Anyway, Muv Luv was a truly unforgettable experience, and in spite of being so damn long, I polished it off in barely 2 weeks, which is to say something.

Well, and that's it. And as always, thank you all so much for being there to exchange thoughts and impressions. It definitely makes this all the more enjoyable 

I think I'll be reading Sharin no Kuni next for a change of pace. I feel like reading something lighter now, after all the info dumping that has MLA 

Thanks for sharing your very insightful thoughts on Muv Luv! You could try reading Altered Fable for a change of pace. To be honest, Sharin no Kuni isn't exactly lighthearted, as it has its tense moments (though obviously not to the extent of MLA). If you had read Grisaia, I'm sure you would find the two to be quite similar. With that being said, Sharin is still a pretty solid vn in terms of plot so good luck with it!

Edited April 2, 2018 by wei123

[Mr Poltroon]

22 hours ago, Thyndd said:

I think I'll be reading Sharin no Kuni next for a change of pace. I feel like reading something lighter now, after all the info dumping that has MLA 

WoooOOOoooh...
Wait for the English localisation to come ouuuuuuut...
woOOOOooooHHhh...

[Dreamysyu]

@Thyndd:

Spoiler

22 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Muv Luv is probably the boldest idea I've ever seen in any form of media. Now that I've finished the trilogy I definitely can appreciate what they intended to do with Extra, and to a lesser extent, with Unlimited. I mean, I knew beforehand that things were gonna get ugly in Alternative, so it was not hard to deduce that there would be a stark contrast between both atmospheres playing for shock value, but now I can clearly see that the objectives in Extra go way beyond that. You see, I believe the strongest point of Muv Luv is how immersive it can be. Every single detail is aimed at making you feel as a part of that world. Granted, Extra is almost as cliched as it gets, but precisely because of that it's fairly relatable: just a normal life, with some quirks for comedic purposes, but nothing too hard to accept. By doing this and dragging it A LOT, MuvLuv is trying to accomplish several things at once: get you acquainted with the characters, sure. They need to feel like friends you've known forever; by sheer virtue of its duration, you are bound to feel, want it or not, as if that story and characters belong to your reality; and last and most importantly, it's going to bore the fuck out of you... but why do you feel like that? Well, because at first you start MuvLuv with the same mentality you approach every piece of fiction. You expect it to be something different, something unique that would never happen to you, an adventure. I mean, that's pretty much the whole point of reading fiction, right? But what do you get? Nothing. Or rather, you get a mirror image of your life, that is, a normal life. So you get bored, and understandably so. You are begging for all the action and interesting stuff to go down... and then you get to Alternative. And the MC Takeru gets excited. And you get excited with him, because shit is about to happen, and you waited like 30h for it. This is the point where all the buildup from Extra/Unlimited was trying to get you, while at the same time having you feel extremely familiar with the Muv Luv universe.

I think there's no need to say what happens next  Shit goes wrong, unbelievably wrong for what you initially expect from this kind of stories, but totally understandable and realistic if you are willing to accept it as reality, which at this point is hardly an issue. Muv Luv plays like this with your mind. It's the kind of story you would never wish to immerse yourself, but by the time you realise that it's already too late: you are one with Takeru and the metaverse. And oh how you wish you could go back to the distant days of Extra, far away from all the suffering and despair that shroud Alternative. So much so that I legit teared up when during the PTSD arc when Takeru returns for a brief period of time and you get to see again that world.

Yeah, definitely, I don't even have anything to add. To be honest, if I heard somebody explain the idea of building a story in such a way, I would never believe it would work. I'd say it's just bad writing, and that good parts, no matter how good they are, never justify the slow beginning. But Alternative proves me wrong. As much as I like to bash Extra, I don't see any other way how this trilogy could be done better (except for, maybe, making the comedic parts a bit funnier, though it may be Ixrec's fault in the end).

22 hours ago, Thyndd said:

I have my issues with the ending though. I've never been a fan of the "it's like it's never happened" kind of ending. I get that it was implied that Takeru, in his current state as a persona, would never fit again in his old world (which I don't think it's necessarily true, but whatever), but to be honest I was hoping for him to end up remembering everything and telling Sumika, just as he said he would if he got back to his world. I think it's pretty lame that everything they went through and connect them together more strongly than ever, and all the evolution and growth Takeru did as a person just disappeared into thin air. Nope, not a fan, definitely.

Not matter how satisfying it would be, this type of ending wouldn't be Muv Luv anymore. The ending to MLA is really unsatisfying, to the point where it's really hard to accept it... but I still like it. At the last moment, where you only expect your standard cliche bittersweet ending, Muv Luv suddenly bares its fangs again, and you get something completely different again. No matter what the story itself implies, Takeru is basically dead in the end. And it's effectively a downer ending, since only Kasumi remembers him in the end, and even the most heartbreaking promise with Meiya is still broken, like many other promises that happen in this series. That person we see in the epilogue, even though he, apparently, has the same memories as Takeru from Alternative, hidden deep inside, is still a different person, as long as they are never going to resurface. Muv Luv isn't a story of growing up. Metaphorically speaking, it's a story of the whole Takeru's life, starting from his innocent childhood in Extra, and ending at his tragic and untimely, but peaceful death at the end of Alternative, after his life was completely broken by the horrors of war. This type of ending, I believe, fits this type of story incredibly well, but of course this is just an interpretation I personally follow, and you may disagree with it if you want to.

 

[Thyndd]

10 minutes ago, wei123 said:

To be honest, Sharin no Kuni isn't exactly lighthearted, as it has its tense moments (though obviously not to the extent of MLA). If you had read Grisaia, I'm sure you would find the two to be quite similar. With that being said, Sharin is still a pretty solid vn in terms of plot so good luck with it!

Oh I wasn't exactly referring to the tone, but the style. MLA is pretty dense, with a lot of info constantly thrown to your face what with military strategies and stuff  Yep! I read Grisaia and someone told me that Yuuji was based on the MC from Sharin no Kuni. More Yuuji is always good.

9 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said:

WoooOOOoooh...
Wait for the English localisation to come ouuuuuuut...
woOOOOooooHHhh...

I actually waited for a while, but I'm getting impatient! Plus as long as the fan translation isn't terrible... It's not like the official translation is guaranteed to be better anyway 

4 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

Not matter how satisfying it would be, this type of ending wouldn't be Muv Luv anymore. The ending to MLA is really unsatisfying, to the point where it's really hard to accept it... but I still like it. At the last moment, where you only expect your standard cliche bittersweet ending, Muv Luv suddenly bares its fangs again, and you get something completely different again. No matter what the story itself implies, Takeru is basically dead in the end. And it's effectively a downer ending, since only Kasumi remembers him in the end, and even the most heartbreaking promise with Meiya is still broken, like many other promises that happen in this series. That person we see in the epilogue, even though he, apparently, has the same memories as Takeru from Alternative, hidden deep inside, is still a different person, as long as they are never going to resurface. Muv Luv isn't a story of growing up. Metaphorically speaking, it's a story of the whole Takeru's life, starting from his innocent childhood in Extra, and ending at his tragic and untimely, but peaceful death at the end of Alternative, after his life was completely broken by the horrors of war. This type of ending, I believe, fits this type of story incredibly well, but of course this is just an interpretation I personally follow, and you may disagree with it if you want to.

I get your point, but if the ending wanted to be bittersweet so badly, couldn't they just make Takeru stay in the Alternative world and die there without ever getting reunited with his comrades? The way I see it, showing the old world where Takeru is no longer the Takeru we followed is rather pointless, because that world was supposed to exist anyway. The only difference is, as you said, that he has some faint memories deep inside. Not that it makes that big a difference if he will never remember anyway