Turnip Sensei Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 It took a long while, but I finally finished Subahibi. And if anything, I'm very conflicted. Not as much with the VN, but myself. Like I mentioned before It's My Own Invention was from time to time too much for me to stomach and that certainly didn't help. Luckily the rest was better and it was just a problem of getting back to it. I guess when it comes to Subahibi you could say it has two layers: the surface level (or just the story) and "deeper level" (the ideas of the author) and depending how well these things meld together in someone's head can hugely impact the enjoyment. But in my case these elements kind of drifted around. At times amidst all the ugliness I just wanted to hear more of the philosophy, more food for thought. At times, just see the next part and make sense of the whole. Ultimately I really enjoyed Subahibi for what it was. The story itself is interesting with utterly fascinating and many-faceted characters and it challenges the reader to think in the most wonderful way possible. Yet, there's still this nagging feeling that I failed to truly appreciate it. Usually, as I look back at what I've done and read, and regret my lack of knowledge and understanding. A truly trite though of course, because without that I would know even less. But when it comes to Subahibi I feel like If I could have had the chance to read it when I was younger, more naïve, Subahibi could have something special. Who knows. But enough with existential crisis. If there's one thing that Subahibi does amazingly it's how it encourages the reader to think and read. My favorite parts of the VN are when the characters are used to teach the reader something. Be it philosophy, mathematics, economy, or literature. Through these scenes SCA-DI not only shows his understanding and knowledge of these subjects, but most importantly his enthusiasm. A heartfelt feeling that something is fascinating and the wish to share it. And not just wanting to teach about something, but to try share that enthusiasm. There hasn't been any other work like Subahibi, that has managed to make me so readily visit library and research. Not because I felt like I wasn't able to understand something, but because I wanted to learn more about subject and go beyond what was taught to me. I've seen people being intimidated about Subahibi because they feel like they have to know philosophy to understand it. But I feel this is very wrong. Basics are very helpful of course, but Subahibi is work that wants to teach you philosophy and how think. In fact, I think it's better to dive in to it knowing less and then studying inspired by it. Be brave and I dive into the unknown! Subahibi was curious experience and I'm still not quite sure how to feel about it. Fascinating it certainly is, in many ways. Like many have demonstrated Subahibi has the potential of being something truly special, and even if it won't end up that way for someone I feel like it has still lot to give. Dreamysyu, akaritan and Akshay 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thyndd Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 I just finished Makina's route in Grisaia no Kajitsu. Overall I enjoyed it, but as I was priorly aware there are many people who are not too fond of the ending, and I can see why. I could easily criticize the decisions Yuuji made. Come on, it's not that hard to get your priorities right: First and foremost don't let Makina die, that much I can understand. But secondly, don't die yourself. I get it, Yuuji has the emotional intelligence of a water flea, but come on man, it's not that hard to figure that Makina'd be rendered mentally broken if once again the most important person for her died trying to protect her. Keeping that in mind, he should avoid unnecessary risks that don't guarantee Makina's safety. Like, ehem, killing her mother. BUT, if you have truly mulled it over and reached the conclusion that it's indeed the best option, then go on and kill the freaking bitch dead. The choice that leads you to the bad ending doesn't make any sense. I'm 100% sure that in that situation killing her was the reasonable choice, and the only reason why it shoves you into the bad ending is due to stupid moral correctness, why I'm certainly not too fond of. I mean, if you don't slay that bitch right there, you are gonna die, and Makina's gonna follow, fucking up your two most important priorities, what the fuck were you thinking in the first place when you decided to infiltrate in the Irisu's HQ? Anyway, I might get pissed off when characters behave in stupid ways, but that is by no means bad writing or something, since it actually fits Yuuji's character pretty well the more I think about it. However: Ok, so now Ichigaya's got a hold of some juicy intel about the Irisu family that I assume they'll use to their interest, and because of that Makina will be protected as an important witness. Hold on, but haven't they accepted the request from the Irisu family to assassinate her? Presumably the Ichigaya knew why they issued that order, or at least JB did since she was the one who told Yuuji about Makina's threat to her mother. If Ichigaya was willing to ditch the job in exchange for the information about Irisu's corruption scandals, couldn't Yuuji have tried to negotiate with them from the very beginning? Come on, Yuuji is oblivious when it comes to personal relationships, but he wouldn't overlook that rational line of thought. *Sigh* I had to get this off my chest. Sorry for the ramble guys Next route I'll be playing... Amane's or perhaps Sachi's, I dunno. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamysyu Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Thyndd said: Next route I'll be playing... Amane's or perhaps Sachi's, I dunno. Any suggestions? Well, Amane and Makina are written by the same author, so maybe it's a good idea to read something else between them. Thyndd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plk_Lesiak Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Thyndd said: I just finished Makina's route in Grisaia no Kajitsu. Overall I enjoyed it, but as I was priorly aware there are many people who are not too fond of the ending, and I can see why. I could easily criticize the decisions Yuuji made. Come on, it's not that hard to get your priorities right: Reveal hidden contents First and foremost don't let Makina die, that much I can understand. But secondly, don't die yourself. I get it, Yuuji has the emotional intelligence of a water flea, but come on man, it's not that hard to figure that Makina'd be rendered mentally broken if once again the most important person for her died trying to protect her. Keeping that in mind, he should avoid unnecessary risks that don't guarantee Makina's safety. Like, ehem, killing her mother. BUT, if you have truly mulled it over and reached the conclusion that it's indeed the best option, then go on and kill the freaking bitch dead. The choice that leads you to the bad ending doesn't make any sense. I'm 100% sure that in that situation killing her was the reasonable choice, and the only reason why it shoves you into the bad ending is due to stupid moral correctness, why I'm certainly not too fond of. I mean, if you don't slay that bitch right there, you are gonna die, and Makina's gonna follow, fucking up your two most important priorities, what the fuck were you thinking in the first place when you decided to infiltrate in the Irisu's HQ? Anyway, I might get pissed off when characters behave in stupid ways, but that is by no means bad writing or something, since it actually fits Yuuji's character pretty well the more I think about it. However: Reveal hidden contents Ok, so now Ichigaya's got a hold of some juicy intel about the Irisu family that I assume they'll use to their interest, and because of that Makina will be protected as an important witness. Hold on, but haven't they accepted the request from the Irisu family to assassinate her? Presumably the Ichigaya knew why they issued that order, or at least JB did since she was the one who told Yuuji about Makina's threat to her mother. If Ichigaya was willing to ditch the job in exchange for the information about Irisu's corruption scandals, couldn't Yuuji have tried to negotiate with them from the very beginning? Come on, Yuuji is oblivious when it comes to personal relationships, but he wouldn't overlook that rational line of thought. *Sigh* I had to get this off my chest. Sorry for the ramble guys Next route I'll be playing... Amane's or perhaps Sachi's, I dunno. Any suggestions? I agree completely, the anime actually did this much better IMO (but they also had to connect of the routes together and leave space for sequels). I think most routes in Kajitsu have a bit of this problem, while the common route is consistently intriguing and very fun to read, the endings tend to be over-the-top and overly convoluted. They're enjoyable, but not necessarily hold up if you over-analyse them. Amane route is my favourite, but after Makina I would maybe suggest Yumiko, as a change of pace? Thyndd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thyndd Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 15 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said: Makina I would maybe suggest Yumiko, as a change of pace? Though I've heard that Yumiko's situation is kind of similar to Makina's? Now that you mention it, I do agree that it'd be for the best to play the most different route to Makina's. Do you believe it'd be Yumiko's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plk_Lesiak Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Thyndd said: Though I've heard that Yumiko's situation is kind of similar to Makina's? Now that you mention it, I do agree that it'd be for the best to play the most different route to Makina's. Do you believe it'd be Yumiko's? It has some similar themes, but is definitely less disturbing/grimdark. For many it's the least favourite one, but that also depends on how much you like the character - I like Yumiko very much so it would be hard for me not to enjoy it. Thyndd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Poltroon Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Thyndd said: Though I've heard that Yumiko's situation is kind of similar to Makina's? Now that you mention it, I do agree that it'd be for the best to play the most different route to Makina's. Do you believe it'd be Yumiko's? Beyond having similar themes, the situation in Yumiko's route is also the same. It isn't really dark, and it's a nice, cute route, but the situation is very similar to Makina's. You may prefer Sachi or Michiru, whose routes are wholly different to Makina's. Thyndd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onorub Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Reading Togainu no Chi and i'm seriously glad i'm doing so, because i was starting to get desensitised to rape in VNs and seeing stuff like that happening to a dude made it much more relatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thyndd Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said: It has some similar themes, but is definitely less disturbing/grimdark. For many it's the least favourite one, but that also depends on how much you like the character - I like Yumiko very much so it would be hard for me not to enjoy it. 2 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said: Beyond having similar themes, the situation is also the same. It isn't really dark, and it's a nice, cute route, but the situation is very similar to Makina's. You may prefer Sachi or Michiru, whose routes are wholly different to Makina's. Hmm, but don't get me wrong, I love dark and disturbing stories, especially when they manage to fit in between some endearingly cute moments. The reason I want to try something different is not so much because I didn't like the atmosphere, but just to keep it fresh, considering the VN is pretty long Anyway, I get the general idea I think. Thank you for your suggestions! Plk_Lesiak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0xm2n Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 10 hours ago, Thyndd said: I just finished Makina's route in Grisaia no Kajitsu. Overall I enjoyed it, but as I was priorly aware there are many people who are not too fond of the ending, and I can see why. I could easily criticize the decisions Yuuji made. Come on, it's not that hard to get your priorities right: Reveal hidden contents First and foremost don't let Makina die, that much I can understand. But secondly, don't die yourself. I get it, Yuuji has the emotional intelligence of a water flea, but come on man, it's not that hard to figure that Makina'd be rendered mentally broken if once again the most important person for her died trying to protect her. Keeping that in mind, he should avoid unnecessary risks that don't guarantee Makina's safety. Like, ehem, killing her mother. BUT, if you have truly mulled it over and reached the conclusion that it's indeed the best option, then go on and kill the freaking bitch dead. The choice that leads you to the bad ending doesn't make any sense. I'm 100% sure that in that situation killing her was the reasonable choice, and the only reason why it shoves you into the bad ending is due to stupid moral correctness, why I'm certainly not too fond of. I mean, if you don't slay that bitch right there, you are gonna die, and Makina's gonna follow, fucking up your two most important priorities, what the fuck were you thinking in the first place when you decided to infiltrate in the Irisu's HQ? Anyway, I might get pissed off when characters behave in stupid ways, but that is by no means bad writing or something, since it actually fits Yuuji's character pretty well the more I think about it. However: Reveal hidden contents Ok, so now Ichigaya's got a hold of some juicy intel about the Irisu family that I assume they'll use to their interest, and because of that Makina will be protected as an important witness. Hold on, but haven't they accepted the request from the Irisu family to assassinate her? Presumably the Ichigaya knew why they issued that order, or at least JB did since she was the one who told Yuuji about Makina's threat to her mother. If Ichigaya was willing to ditch the job in exchange for the information about Irisu's corruption scandals, couldn't Yuuji have tried to negotiate with them from the very beginning? Come on, Yuuji is oblivious when it comes to personal relationships, but he wouldn't overlook that rational line of thought. *Sigh* I had to get this off my chest. Sorry for the ramble guys Next route I'll be playing... Amane's or perhaps Sachi's, I dunno. Any suggestions? Sachi's, and especially, Michiru's routes are emotional rollercoasters (compared to the other routes). I teared up in both routes actually. Amane's has an amazing flashback though (that left one heck of an impression). As for Yuuji's decisions in Maki's route, well the Grand route in Labyrinth of Grisaia sheds some light on that... Thyndd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mard Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Currently I'm going through Mahou Shoujo Ai 2. Really enjoyable so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zidan209 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 All of this rambling about Grisaia made me pick up Makina's route and finish the VN. A little annoying loli can't hurt anyone, i guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurisu-Chan Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Ok, i am not starting Fate/Stay Night, but Little busters! steam edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshay Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 On 11/12/2017 at 7:27 PM, Thyndd said: Hmm, but don't get me wrong, I love dark and disturbing stories, especially when they manage to fit in between some endearingly cute moments. The reason I want to try something different is not so much because I didn't like the atmosphere, but just to keep it fresh, considering the VN is pretty long Anyway, I get the general idea I think. Thank you for your suggestions! Makina's route is a good starting point. Yumiko's route has no bad endings, and is comparatively less grim. While it is less emotional, than the other routes, this was probably intentional and acts as a wonderful conclusion route to the series. You should probably play Amane into Sachi, though this is not strictly necessary. (some facts about yuuji's workplace, are learnt here as well). Michiru's route can be played anywhere, and pretty much its own story. I would use this for the change of pace. It's very emotional, but it feels the most different/fresh when compared to the other routes. Thyndd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamysyu Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) Just a little advice for those here reading Grisaia: don't take Michiru's route too seriously. It's not a bad route by itself, but it has some really strange moments which require a lot of suspension of disbelief. It's quite clear the author of that route didn't really know what Grisaia was supposed to be about, so this route looks a bit strange. I personally believe it would work better in some VN by Key. And I repeat, it's not a bad route by itself. Actually, it's pretty good. Edited November 13, 2017 by Dreamysyu typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zidan209 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said: It's not a bad route by itself, but it has some really strange moments which require a lot of suspension of disbelief. It's quite clear the author of that route didn't really know what Grisaia was supposed to be about, so this route looks a bit strange. And I repeat, it's not a bad route by itself. Actually, it's pretty good. I think her route was actually pretty good, there were just a few unexpected details. The outcome was a little weird, though. I liked Yumiko's route the most, but Michiru is best girl for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamysyu Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 19 minutes ago, Zidan209 said: I think her route was actually pretty good, there were just a few unexpected details. The outcome was a little weird, though. Spoiler Well, this whole stuff with cellular memories really threw me off originally. I mean, I wouldn't call Grisaia a realistic story, the rest of the VN tries to be more or less down-to-earth. And when it threw so obviously pseudoscientific topic, to me it looked really weird. Another moment I didn't particularly like is that characterization of some characters was pretty inconsistent with the other routes. I personally think it would work better if they just made it regular multiple personalities. And, in the end, I still liked this route. And yeah, Michiru is the best girl. r0xm2n 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshay Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Dreamysyu said: I personally believe it would work better in some VN by Key. It's not nearly that bad. If it was key, michiru would have been saved by a magic pony or something. Dreamysyu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zidan209 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, Akshay said: It's not nearly that bad. If it was key, michiru would have been saved by a magic pony or something. Wait, isn't Yuuji actually one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshay Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, Zidan209 said: Wait, isn't Yuuji actually one? I felt he was more of a donkey. Had all of the girls shit piled on his back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0xm2n Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 3 hours ago, Dreamysyu said: Reveal hidden contents Well, this whole stuff with cellular memories really threw me off originally. I mean, I wouldn't call Grisaia a realistic story, the rest of the VN tries to be more or less down-to-earth. And when it threw so obviously pseudoscientific topic, to me it looked really weird. Another moment I didn't particularly like is that characterization of some characters was pretty inconsistent with the other routes. I personally think it would work better if they just made it regular multiple personalities. And, in the end, I still liked this route. And yeah, Michiru is the best girl. Yep, Michiru is best girl! I just love her voice and random antics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thyndd Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 (edited) In the end I started Sachi's route and I'm actually halfway through already. Yes, in 2 days, that is how much I am enjoying it. I'm sorry to hear that perhaps the correct order is Amane into Sachi, in order to know Yuuji's situation at THAT moment, but oh well, too late for that Next up will be Amane, then Michiru, then Yumiko to wrap it up. Edited November 14, 2017 by Thyndd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshay Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Thyndd said: In the end I started Sachi's route and I'm actually halfway through already. Yes, in 2 days, that is how much I am enjoying it. I'm sorry to hear that perhaps the correct order is Amane into Sachi, in order to know Yuuji's situation at THAT moment, but oh well, too late for that Next up will be Amane, then Michiru, then Yumiko to wrap it up. Don't worry too much. For amane's route, try to binge the last few chapters of angelic howl and the end. It will make it a lot better. And please, please don't skip the bad endings. Use the walkthrough to get them first. They are unbelievably impactful. Edited November 14, 2017 by Akshay Thyndd and Dreamysyu 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zidan209 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Akshay said: Don't worry too much. For amane's route, try to binge the last few chapters of angelic howl and the end. It will make it a lot better. And please, please don't skip the bad endings. Use the walkthrough to get them first. They are unbelievably impactful. IMO, Amane's bad ending was quite great, surely the best one of the bad endings, because the other ones get more or less cut short with something shitty there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshay Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 27 minutes ago, Zidan209 said: IMO, Amane's bad ending was quite great, surely the best one of the bad endings, because the other ones get more or less cut short with something shitty there Imao amanes bad ending is the greatest bad end of all time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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