sanahtlig Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I've approached Tay on this matter and after 3 weeks I haven't received a response. With Eclipsed's noncommittal go-ahead, I bring this before the wider community. I'm considering including affiliate links to visual novel stores on my community blog. What is an affiliate link? Affiliate links are special urls that track click traffic to their destination. These urls are essentially sponsored links provided by companies like JAST and Mangagamer to those interested in promoting their products (affiliates like me). Clicking the link installs a cookie on your device which tracks your purchases. You likely have hundreds of these tracking cookies already installed on your browsing device. For each sale made within a period of time after clicking the link, the affiliate account holder is given a small commission (usually between 5-10%). The rules vary by store: for example, DLsite only reimburses store points, which can only be used to purchase items from their store. What does an Affiliate Link look Like? Here's an example: Elves of Fornica Forest How would the decision to include affiliate links directly affect my articles and other content? Where previously I would've had a link to VNDB or directly to a visual novel store, I'd instead have an affiliate link to the visual novel store. This change would essentially be invisible to casual readers. Why I'm interested in hosting these on my blog I've long been interested in promoting the English eroge industry. That's always been my main incentive for posting articles such as the ones I've done for Fuwazette, LewdGamer, and the more substantial posts on my community blog. Lately I've been spending an inordinate amount of time working on these articles, and I've realized that this simply isn't sustainable. I'm already starting to burn out, and if this continues my interest in writing such articles is going to evaporate. Affiliate links provide two things I desperately need: 1) An effective way to track the impact of my articles and know I'm achieving my goal of reaching a receptive audience and promoting the industry. 2) A small incentive to keep devoting time to writing quality material for a wide audience. This isn't the only opportunity I have to be reimbursed for the time I invest writing these articles, but it's the most flexible and gives me the most freedom over my content. What are the downsides to hosting affiliate links? 1) Being rewarded for promoting a product can interfere with objectivity and promote unwanted soliciting. Response: Given my training as a scientist, I'm fairly confident that I can maintain a professional level of objectivity. I WILL be promoting products, but only ones I feel are worthy of being promoted. I'm highly critical by nature, and I won't hold my punches just because it damages the game's popularity. I won't let anyone muzzle me, least of all myself. That's what I expect of myself, and that's what anyone who knows me should expect. 2) Affiliate links redirect funds intended for visual novel creators. Response: Meta-content about visual novels also has value--and clearly JAST and Mangagamer recognize this because they're the ones who created these affiliate programs in the first place. By clicking my affiliate links and making purchases, that's a vote for my content, and a vote for me to keep promoting the industry. 3) Affiliate links compete with each other. Only one account-holder can be reimbursed. Response: Different programs have different rules, but yes, my affiliate links would compete to some extent with Fuwanovel's affiliate links. This conflict of interests is why I sought input from Tay before opening the topic up for community discussion. It would be wise to avoid clicking affiliate links in my blog if you wanted the commission to go to Fuwanovel instead. In the end, Fuwanovel's goal is to make visual novels popular in the West. I feel that affiliate links on my community blog would be in line with this goal, and I feel that incentives to produce quality content would be beneficial both for Fuwanovel as well as the visual novel industry as a whole. Yet I recognize that not all will agree with me, and thus I offer this thread as an opportunity to debate this course of action, as well as consider if there should be an official site policy on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalRen Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 As someone who strongly was opposed to banning specific lolicon content here on Fuwanovel due to legal reasons, I am against the use of those links on your blog. You and Steve specifically were very angst and sarcastically opposed to not allowing that content on the site of Fuwanovel. Now normally I would not have an issue with that, however if that is the same attitude you include in your blog posts, that to me does not speak professionally at all. I am sure you were well aware of the legal reasons for not allowing that content here on the site, yet you still attracted a lot of unneeded attention and even went against the decision by putting your entry back onto the site. While it isn't there now, that "I am doing this to defy you" personality doesn't speak professionalism to me. In addition, your initial thread about the lolicon simulator was posted all over the internet as if to prove a point, and that kind of attention (which you mention as being a downside to affiliate links) will only bode negatively for certain visitors on the site. While you do say you will only promote products you think deserve recognition, a young child sex simulator, regardless of your belief on the matter, is not "promote" worthy in my opinion. In addition (and also the main reason I am against this), I am not a fan of the competition for the site. Fuwanovel has recently opened donations and allowed affiliate links for the purpose of obtaining money for the site. By allowing those links on your blog, it essentially destroys the most viable income the site has (because let's be honest, most non-active members of the site will not give a damn about donating a single penny to this website). That's my opinion on the matter, however I do understand your blog is interesting to read at times. No hard feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 As someone who strongly was opposed to banning specific lolicon content here on Fuwanovel due to legal reasons, I am against the use of those links on your blog. You and Steve specifically were very angst and sarcastically opposed to not allowing that content on the site of Fuwanovel. Now normally I would not have an issue with that, however if that is the same attitude you include in your blog posts, that to me does not speak professionally at all. I am sure you were well aware of the legal reasons for not allowing that content here on the site, yet you still attracted a lot of unneeded attention and even went against the decision by putting your entry back onto the site. While it isn't there now, that "I am doing this to defy you" personality doesn't speak professionalism to me. In addition, your initial thread about the lolicon simulator was posted all over the internet as if to prove a point, and that kind of attention (which you mention as being a downside to affiliate links) will only bode negatively for certain visitors on the site. While you do say you will only promote products you think deserve recognition, a young child sex simulator, regardless of your belief on the matter, is not "promote" worthy in my opinion. I think you're confusing my phrase "professional level of objectivity" with "professionalism". I'm not running a business on Fuwanovel. I'm running a blog. That wouldn't change if I added affiliate links, and in fact, that was kind of my point: my intent is that the addition of affiliate links wouldn't change all that much about my content. If I wanted to write professionally, I'd go get a job as a writer (and I'd use my real name). But that's not my intent here. Off-topic bickering: Also, I should point out that I reposted that blog post in response to ambiguous input. I asked a question. That question was met with an ambiguous reply by a member of the Leadership Council, so I acted as I did based on my current understanding of the situation. Blame the person who responded to my question with a Socrates parable rather than a simple "no". By allowing those links on your blog, it essentially destroys the most viable income the site has (because let's be honest, most non-active members of the site will not give a damn about donating a single penny to this website). I'm just a single blogger. It would be rather odd if affiliate links in my blog redirected all of Fuwanovel's affiliate link commissions to me. But I do understand that this is an issue, which is why I approached Tay about it. 3 weeks ago. Also keep in mind that my blog (and others) drive external traffic to this site. Sure, it's meagre, but the expected commissions I'd redirect from Fuwanovel would also be meagre. I think the two opposing factors would tend to cancel each other out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I honestly don't have a strong response to this, except the knee-jerk response of a guy who hates advertising... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 I honestly don't have a strong response to this, except the knee-jerk response of a guy who hates advertising... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronopolis Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Harm-wise there's no one who geting hurt. So I have no objections. It's not as if you are misusing the blogs. The only difference between having an affiliate link for a buyer is that some of the money is being going to the reviewer. As long as you are aware the links are affiliate, if you believe that Sanahtlig's reviews should be treated like everybody else's and not be connected with money, you can google the store link instead. It basically reduces to voluntarily tipping the reviewer for his service. It's pretty low impact. The possible problem here is the people suspecting that your content is suffering for it, or resentful that you are blogging for money (however relatively small). If you go do so, other people might be tempted to do the same, and do a shitty job of it. People could get annoyed. It would be worry about this sentiment boiling into something more nasty that would make Fuwa admins say no to this as a policy (basically drawing a line in the sand: VN creators can do reasonable promotion, but VN reviewers should not.). It all depends on the community and how good your PR is with the community you are in. But if you are serious about this, if Tay says no, why don't you host an off-site blog? There aren't rules on posting a link to your off-site blogs as long as they are relevant content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalRen Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Again, I am more worried about the competitive aspect of the links, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 OR Something could be done to transfer good blog content on the front page. OR have it on the front page in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Already been the plan for the new site for a long time. Its just not done yet... .... .... Oh, well that's new to my ears. Learnin' everyday ! It's cool if it's happening though. And if it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 OR Something could be done to transfer good blog content on the front page. OR have it on the front page in the first place. My assumption is that articles on Fuwazette would have Fuwa affiliate links. I've actually offered up my recent articles to them with no strings attached, but they weren't interested. *shrug* I did the same with FuwaReviews before it closed to external submissions (though it seems FuwaReviews is currently going through some reorganization). My personal blog was actually the last option on a long list of places to host my featured content. It's quite a bit of work solo promoting one's own content--more work than actually writing the articles sometimes. But if you are serious about this, if Tay says no, why don't you host an off-site blog? There aren't rules on posting a link to your off-site blogs as long as they are relevant content. It's an option I'm considering, but the problem there is that I can't produce content in sufficient quantity, at a sufficient pace, to maintain a stable following. I was asked to write for Fuwazette at one point, but I turned them down because they wanted me to write at least one article a week (a fairly reasonable demand, but one I can't meet). I like writing editorial-type articles. Opportunities and, just as importantly, the time to write such articles are hard to come by. I need content produced by others to keep people around for when I actually write something--and I'm not looking to manage others either. Guest blogging on other sites provides me an opportunity to reach a pre-existing audience without the strenuous labor of maintaining a following myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcosis Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Whatever floats your boat, man. Personally, I'd really consider starting a blog in your case. You will get a lot more visibility that way; it doesn't really matter whether you'll post on a daily, weekly or periodical basis. What matters the most is the content itself and it's the main factor that decides about website traffic. Besides, there's a lot of different ways to to sustain it on a required level without the need for consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 Personally, I'd really consider starting a blog in your case. Given that the "no" votes currently outnumber the "yes" votes, as well as my ideological differences with site leadership, this is the direction I'm currently leaning. You will get a lot more visibility that way; it doesn't really matter whether you'll post on a daily, weekly or periodical basis. What matters the most is the content itself and it's the main factor that decides about website traffic. Besides, there's a lot of different ways to to sustain it on a required level without the need for consistency. I'm been an Internet denizen for long enough to realize that quality of content is only one of many factors that determine visibility and traffic, and not necessarily even the most important factor. I'm positive that hosting content on a personal blog rather than here will result in a decrease in visibility and traffic by 10x or more in many cases. But if it's the will of the community that I distance myself from Fuwanovel, then I'll oblige. I'd continue to offer suitable content on Fuwazette and FuwaReviews, in any case. It's clear that not all of my content is welcome here, nor does Fuwanovel want to have its name attached to controversial content, so perhaps a split is for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewycool Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Make a blog on your own website. Then you can decide yourself what you can do. Otherwise you shouldn't be allowed to if your blog is located on Fuwa, since you'll just be competing with Fuwa. Pretty straight forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakamutt Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I'd continue to offer suitable content on Fuwazette and FuwaReviews, in any case. It's clear that not all of my content is welcome here, nor does Fuwanovel want to have its name attached to controversial content, so perhaps a split is for the best. Mr Poltroon and sanahtlig 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 As for the affiliate thing, given that these things are (iirc) based on which link the buyer clicked last, I've got some complicated feelings about it all. I don't really have a strong opinion either way though. It appears to vary with the program. First-click is also used sometimes, though I'm not sure what the particular policies of JAST USA, J-List, Mangagamer, and DLsite are. Such details can be difficult to locate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nayleen Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I wouldn't be opposed to give you your own space and subdomain, as we've talked about before if you're interested in that. Separate WP installation and all, Fuwa name, your thing. Otherwise it might be a good idea to move to a separate blog at this point. If you're interested run the idea by Tay by creating a group PM, and I'll take it from there should he be okay with it. I think the thread and poll has run its course anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sýnolo Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 On its face it sounds kind of iffy, but If the admins have no problem with it I dont see why not. Just don't let those big affilate link bucks go to your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 On its face it sounds kind of iffy, but If the admins have no problem with it I dont see why not. Just don't let those big affilate link bucks go to your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sýnolo Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I was joking about the money. However, some would say even the appearance of financial collusion compromises a journalist's integrity. Though I am not sure you consider yourself a journalist, you are now involved in the industry, if only in a limited manner. I view affiliate links as a negative tread in online news. They and click bait appear to compromise the quality of journalism in favor of sensationalism and infotainment. So while I understand your reasons and don’t necessarily disagree with them, the trend you’re drawing from is distasteful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 They and click bait appear to compromise the quality of journalism in favor of sensationalism and infotainment. Looking at my featured article titles... Yumina the Ethereal: The first high-profile official H-RPG release in English…but will JAST drop the ball and forget to market it? JAST’s failure to market Seinarukana as an RPG could doom English H-RPGs Why I endorse JAST’s censorship of Shiny Days H-RPG Kagura Douchuuki Gets Greenlight for Censorship ...I think that boat has already sailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sýnolo Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 ...I think that boat has already sailed. Well at least your honest. No one cares about that anymore either, but it's a nice thought regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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