Jump to content

Muv Luv: A Pretty Sweet Visual Novel Series Kickstarter [MILLION DOLLAR BABY]


Recommended Posts

I should point out that if you type "define:idiot" into google, it comes back as "a stupid person". Type "define:stupid" into google and it also comes back as "a stupid person". So it's pretty clear which one is the 'base' word, heh.

39 minutes ago, Vorathiel said:

New translation, or as I should say 'The one and only proper way of translation everything, change as much as possible to fit for (as translators assume) dumb US audience speach patterns and culutural references, because people are dumb and they don't understant anything different; otherwise simply known as 'localisation'.':

Overall, this is probably the weirdest accusation of over-Americanisation I've ever come across. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

It should be based on the English translation by Ixrec.

Which doesn't invalidate a translator's personal bias. If he thinks 'stupid' is the best translation, and they mean the same bloody thing, he really would have no reason to hold back.

What I think should be the real question here is how "stupid" is more American than "idiot".

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Tiagofvarela said:

Which doesn't invalidate a translator's personal bias. If he thinks 'stupid' is the best translation, and they mean the same bloody thing, he really would have no reason to hold back.

What I think should be the real question here is how "stupid" is more American than "idiot".

Beats me, stupid seems more British to me and idiot more American.
Then again i live in a 6 meter deep hole below sea level, so what the hell do i know:miyako:

What bothers me is that people are freaking out because some changed idiot into stupid.
Why would that matter, it means the same bloody thing and has no substantial impact on the translation whatsoever.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the the big hubbub with this whole issue of changing 'idiot' to 'stupid'? I don't really get it. They both pretty much mean the same thing, and depending on the sentence, one is probably better used than the other.

E.G.

"That person is a real idiot."

"That person is a real stupid."

"That person is stupid."

"That person is idiot."

As long as the changes weren't anything like that, what's the problem? :miyako:

 

Edit:

Oh, I see where the issue came from now:

Spoiler

O9rOv0q.jpg

In my opinion and understanding of the English language, 'stupid' definitely sounds a lot better than 'idiot' in this situation. Not to mention is has one less syllable, which helps in rolling it off the tongue slightly easier when you're constantly repeating it. Stupid-senpai~

Edited by Forgetful Frank
Link to post
Share on other sites

it's nice how they are quick to give the Steam keys to backers.Meanwhile,there are people still waiting for their Mighty No. 9 keys.People should look at that before generalizing that everyone is ill-intentioned if they use Kickstarter.

We have gotten Grisaia,Clannad,and Muv-Luv on Steam(and the consequences of that are getting more VNs on Steam.Hell,we are getting the extra contents of Clannad and Tomoyo After translated for the first time thanks to that.),and they were all great quality releases thanks to Kickstarter,unlike MN9,which delivered a mediocre game after 4 million bucks and multiple delays.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rooke said:

Overall, this is probably the weirdest accusation of over-Americanisation I've ever come across. 

It's actually close to how I expressed myself with the gripes I had with Tokyo Babel. :makina: Though, I didn't use nearly as much sarcasm~

Even as a pariah that prefers more literal translations (legible, mind you), I see the change from "Idiot" to "Stupid" a good choice - it just rolls off the tongue better, and still manages to convey exactly what the original meaning can be (look up baka sometime) without reinvention. It kept the childish vibe it was meant to express, without sounding weird.

If that's the method of the touch-ups, than I have no concerns. I'd only get annoyed with unique cultural references being removed/replaced (religions, class, etc). The world is bigger than the box a person sits in - and thus shouldn't be pandered overmuch. That, and I'm a weeb. :sachi:

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Forgetful Frank said:

In my opinion and understanding of the English language, 'stupid' definitely sounds a lot better than 'idiot' in this situation. Not to mention is has one less syllable, which helps in rolling it off the tongue slightly easier when you're constantly repeating it. Stupid-senpai~

Agree. Stupid rolls much better. But this isn't text for anybody to say. These are subtitles to read to understand what is she saying.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Vorathiel said:

Agree. Stupid rolls much better. But this isn't text for anybody to say. These are subtitles to read to understand what is she saying.

Pulled from wiki:

 

Meanings

Based on semantic analyses of baka 馬鹿 entries in Japanese dictionaries and thesauruses, the lexicographer Michael Carr differentiates eight interrelated meanings.[4]

Three basic "fool; foolish" meanings distinguish baka1 "ass; jerk; fool", baka2 "ament; idiot; imbecile; fool" (ament is a rare but politically correct word for "mentally deficient"), and baka3 "blockhead; dullard; dimwit; simpleton; dolt; fool". These are found in many frequently-used Japanese expressions. Some more insulting lexemes are bakamono 馬鹿者 "stupid/born fool", ōbaka 大馬鹿 "big fool damned idiot", and baka-yarō 馬鹿野郎 "stupid jerk, ass, asshole, dumbass". Some compounds are baka yoke 馬鹿ヨケ "foolproof; idiot-proof", baka warai 馬鹿笑い "foolish/horse laugh" and baka zura 馬鹿面 "foolish face; stupid look"; and some verb phrases are baka ni suru 馬鹿にする "make a fool of (someone); treat with contempt", baka yobawarisuru 馬鹿よばわりする "call (someone) a fool", and baka o miru 馬鹿を見る "make a fool/ass of (oneself)".

While not a "direct" conversion, there is still a acceptable correlation.

Look, as someone that dislikes reinvented conversations and settings during a localization - even I see this as splitting hairs. Anyone with a remote understanding of the Japanase language will know that a single word can have multiple meaning, depending on inflection and grammatical usage.

Let me offer an example: In Fate/Stay Night, when Shirou meets Kotomi Kirei at the Mapu Tofu restaurant - all Kirei asks is "Tabaru?" and Shirou responds "Tabura janai!". A overly literal TL of that would be Kirei:"Eat?" Shirou:"No eat!" (at least based on my limited understanding of Japanese). It's something that needs to be modified to come across better in English - it works well in Japanese, and sounds good - but written in English it literally comes across as two cavemen~

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Vorathiel said:

Agree. Stupid rolls much better. But this isn't text for anybody to say. These are subtitles to read to understand what is she saying.

When two methods mean the same thing but one simply sounds better, there is absolutely nothing wrong with switching to the better sounding alternative, even if the previous version was already fine. I'm glad that the translation team is being so comprehensive in their methodology here.

This conversation is so freaking ridiculous though. I can't believe you're raising a fuss over something so trivial.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still wondering where the 18+ patch is.

As for the translation, if you want to see someone obsessing over actual TL mistakes in an otherwise professional release, take a look at my coverage of TL mistakes in Seinarukana.  These are the sorts of issues you should be paying attention to, not silly and inconsequential deviations from fan norms.  I discuss what may be systematic problems in the way VNs are translated that people don't usually talk about: sometimes serious issues like "I love you!" becoming "You love her!", which would normally seem unfathomable.

Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Rooke said:

People on Reddit annoyed that Unlimited is unlocked from the get-go. Personally if people want to experience the game out-of-order, and the intended play-order is written for everybody to see on the Steam purchase page, then that's the customer's prerogative. Not worth getting sad over, imo.

Saw a tweet from the publisher that they are looking into adding a disclaimer in the game as well about play order, but they don't seem intent on locking it away like After Story or something. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Vorathiel said:

Almost very begining of the game, so no spoilers. 0:37 in this video, Sumika says 'Baka baka baaaka bakabaka baaaaka'.
(look out, because this arsehole on YT is streching every 4:3 ratio vn for his videos, because he's retarded and I quote him 'I just cant stand the boxy look.')

Ixrec translation:
"Idiot idiot idiooooot, idiooot idiot idiot", just your typical translation of baka.

New translation, or as I should say 'The one and only proper way of translation everything, change as much as possible to fit for (as translators assume) dumb US audience speach patterns and culutural references, because people are dumb and they don't understant anything different; otherwise simply known as 'localisation'.':
O9rOv0q.jpg

What the hell was wrong with simple idiot? 99% of 'baka' translations put 'idiot' as a replacement for 'baka'. But mighty MuvLuvTranslationTeam knows better what hamburger eating steam user otaku fan would prefer to read here.

If I see more examples like that I will probably never read this version, and stay with Ixrec, if I ever want to reread muvluv series.

Yeah, I like my salt in big amounts, thank you.

Stupid and idiot mean the exact same thing, literally what the hell are you complaining about??

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Rooke said:

ss_f422ab6f0e3fad67bba231230c17e703dbece

Very quickly. The name in brackets - [Akane], it denotes that Akane is saying something. Therefore those hideous speech brackets are not needed, and are actually redundant. Why people put speech brackets in an ADV format game is beyond me, TBH.

I get that I'm criticizing a really old game here, but that is one ugly-ass UI in general, for an ADV text box. The JP quotation marks are kinda the least of the problems.

  • What is up with the text alignment. Is there any text alignment?
  • Why is the name inline with the dialogue, in the same font and color, instead of off to the side, or above, or a different color, or, you know, basically any other way of differentiating them?
  • Because they're not differentiated, now we're looking at the world's ugliest square brackets. Why are they so ugly.

Fortunately, once I'm about 10 minutes into the game, I probably won't care anymore.

The bigger concern is what Sana said, actually: I feel like this is one of those games where I'm going to wait for the 18+ version. But I'm in no hurry, so it's all good.

Link to post
Share on other sites

An excerpt of the translations, taken just after Sumika bonked Takeru for groping her boobs while she was trying to wake him up:

Quote

Amaterasu
Takeru: "......oww......you didn't have to hit me that hard........."
Sumika: "Shut up......it's your fault, Takeru-chan. You were the one being a perv!"
Takeru: "That's why I said it was beyond my control!"
Sumika: "Liar! Your hand moved!"
Takeru: "I don't remember it doing that...... After you attacked......my brain......"
Sumika: "Shall I make you remember?"
Takeru: "You dumbass, who'd want to touch those anyway!? They're yours. They're Sumika's!!"
Sumika: "How horrible! Why would you say that?"
Takeru: "What? You want me to touch them? Make up your mind already."
Sumika: "I wouldn't mind, you know."
Takeru: "I'm sorry......"
Sumika: "Hmph. If you keep acting like an idiot forever......"
Takeru: "...yeah right, did you really think I'd listen to you that easily!!??"

versus

Degica
Takeru: "...Oww... You didn't have to hit me so hard..."
Sumika: "Oh, shut up... It's your own fault, Takeru-chan. You were the one being a perv!"
Takeru: "I already told you, I couldn't help it! It was just a reflex!"
Sumika: "Liar! You were squeezing them!"
Takeru: "Can't say I recall that. I think your attack might've caused some short-term memory loss..."
Sumika: "Want me to help you remember?"
Takeru: "Dumbass. Who in their right mind would want to touch those things!? You do realize this is YOU we're talking about, right!?"
Sumika: "You're so meeeaaan! Why nooot!?"
Takeru: "What — so you want me to touch them, then? Make up your mind already."
Sumika: "I wouldn't mind, you know..."
Takeru: "...Look, I'm sorry, alright...?"
Sumika: "Hmph. One of these days, you're gonna need to quit fooling around all the time..."
Takeru: "...Psych! Did you really think I'd listen to you that easily!?!?"

Some of these differences are minor, but have subtle differences in the meaning, such as "so hard" instead of "that hard." "That hard" implies a very specific level of being hit at he's uncomfortable with, while "so hard" implies a broader range, he's mostly not okay with being hit hard at all. 

With the second line, Amaterasu's version makes Sumika feel more passive and kind of whiny, while the revised translation makes her sound more assertive. "It's your fault" is what you say when shifting the blame, "It's your own fault" is something you say from a more detached position, when you don't think you had or deserved any of the blame in the first place. 

Then there's just a lot of minor, obvious improvements. "Squeeze" instead of "move" for instance. "Your hand moved" is not at all obvious in its actual meaning, and the moment you have to think about a straightforward joke is the moment it becomes way less funny.

Overall, all of the minor accuracy improvements (such as "Why not" instead of "Why would you say that") makes the dialogue flow so much better. Like, every line actually feels like a response to the previous line in the Degica version, while the Amaterasu version felt like it was full of more non-sequiturs. It gives the dialogue a snappier back-and-forth dynamic to it that simply makes it funnier and more interesting to read.

And the final few lines in this sequence make so much more sense in the Degica version. The simple "I'm sorry......" made it unclear exactly what he was apologizing for, and it felt like it came out of nowhere. "Look, I'm sorry alright?" feels like the kind of insincere apology that Takeru would give, while the nature of the apology makes it more apparent that he's apologizing for groping her. And so when he immediately takes it back, that take-back has more impact when the apology itself isn't so confusing. And the nature of the take-back is just so much better in the new version. "...yeah right" with lowercase Y and all, feels so weak that you actually have to wonder what it was for. It could even be mistaken for a retort to Sumika's last line saying that he can't act like an idiot forever, which isn't the case.

Overall, the new script is so drastically better in almost every single line that I cannot even begin to fathom how anyone could prefer the old Amaterasu version. The old version was a confusing, boring mess, the new version feels snappy and even kinda funny, which is something I didn't think was possible for Muv Luv. Takeru comes off as being cockier, and this cocky attitude is pretty amusing in the new version. I was so insanely bored by Extra when I read it a few years ago, but this new version actually feels readable and mildly entertaining in its own way. The content is still pretty insipid, but perhaps the dialogue can actually inspire some occasional laughs now. 

But they did use the em dash improperly, so actually this is a garbage tier translation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that they removed those awful extended ellipses already makes it much better.

I kind of regret reading this last summer. They announced the localization right after I was already a good ways into the fan translation and I ended up going through with the rest of it. Degica's release definitely seems like a smoother experience, so good on them for that. It's amazing what some TLC and editors who understand nuance can do to a shoddy script.

Just one more reason to learn Japanese, I guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ugh.

 

They cropped the shit out out of these, just like G-Senjou no Mao.

 

Before: image33.jpg

 

After: xv4lUdX.png

 

God dammit. I hate this shit.  No reason for Wide-screen if you lose 20% on the top and bottom!

 

I was even thinking about buying this, just like I thought about buying G-Senjou, as I love both of them and wanted to support more coming to the west, but I am not going to pay for an INFERIOR PRODUCT!

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

"They're yours. They're Sumika's!!"

I remember I never quite understood this part.

Almost everyone without Japanese knowledge would be confused by that line. It's utterly horrible. 

Degica gets bonus points for their use of 'psych', btw :3

2 minutes ago, Mkilbride said:

I was even thinking about buying this, just like I thought about buying G-Senjou, as I love both of them and wanted to support more coming to the west, but I am not going to pay for an INFERIOR PRODUCT!

That the translation doesn't leave you scratching your head means it's not inferior. Also, nothing important is cropped out of that shot.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Out of that shot, yes, but overall, that will be 40% lost in all shots. 

 

The translation never left me wondering. Infact, the translation comparison above makes the  fan one look better! In Japanese, they say names when referring to a person, so it makes far more sense that he says ""They're yours. They're Sumika's!!"

VS the much plainer and less characterized:

 

"You do realize this is YOU we're talking about, right!?"

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...