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Sekai Project depends on crowdfunding entirely too much


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While there are a ton of issues with this thread, the main thing here is that people are making claims about Kickstarter issues with other developers. If you are going to say that sekai is terrible because they use Kickstarter, then please cite examples of said mistakes with Kickstarter sekai made. Otherwise it's just an argument full of fallacies or straight up trolling.

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I've stated my reasons over and over again, a company shouldn't rely on crowdfunding as a business model. Its not trolling or a fallacy. 

So its a fact now and you're just the brainiac here.

 

 

Obviously, this issue is subjective. Sekai Project is not breaking any KS rules, and their projects continue to get funded and released. If you don't like the way they do things, whatever. Thats on you. I've yet to see you or anyone else put forward an actual decent argument as to why they shouldn't. Sanah keeps repeating that its blackmail and dishonest (an ignorant statement at best and an idiotic one at worst) and you keep saying its unethical (also pretty ignorant as I see no way in hell to it being unethical. Annoying, maybe.)

 

It continually baffles me as to why people complain that its so hard to buy VNs, and then a company comes along bringing multiple VNs over in a way that has, so far, worked perfectly, and those same people then complain that they are bringing over VNs.

 

Want to just go back to pirating them and getting almost no releases and having to rely on fan translations? 

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So its a fact now and you're just the brainiac here.

 

 

Obviously, this issue is subjective. Sekai Project is not breaking any KS rules, and their projects continue to get funded and released. If you don't like the way they do things, whatever. Thats on you. I've yet to see you or anyone else put forward an actual decent argument as to why they shouldn't. Sanah keeps repeating that its blackmail and dishonest (an ignorant statement at best and an idiotic one at worst) and you keep saying its unethical (also pretty ignorant as I see no way in hell to it being unethical. Annoying, maybe.)

 

It continually baffles me as to why people complain that its so hard to buy VNs, and then a company comes along bringing multiple VNs over in a way that has, so far, worked perfectly, and those same people then complain that they are bringing over VNs.

 

Want to just go back to pirating them and getting almost no releases and having to rely on fan translations? 

Now you are just putting words in my mouth and I would greatly appreciate if you would stop that, As you have mentioned before yes they are bring VN, however most of those have been OELVN's they have released exactly 2 Japanese Localized VN, Grisaia no Kajitsu (On steam) and NekoPara, yes I know there are more to come, however as also has been said companies have been able to create an industry without having to rely on that method, personally I would rather take quality over quantity. 

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This statement means that using Kickstarter automatically means the product will be of worse quality, yes?

Incorrect. It means that most of what Sekai Project has put out kickstarter or not has been mediocre. Though I admit I was pleasantly surprised with the Steam Version of Grisaia it was far less censored than I thought it was going to be.

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Now you are just putting words in my mouth and I would greatly appreciate if you would stop that, As you have mentioned before yes they are bring VN, however most of those have been OELVN's they have released exactly 2 Japanese Localized VN, Grisaia no Kajitsu (On steam) and NekoPara, yes I know there are more to come, however as also has been said companies have been able to create an industry without having to rely on that method, personally I would rather take quality over quantity. 

So all the nukige that MG pumps out is quality then? On another note, I fail to see how I put words in your mouth. 

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So all the nukige that MG pumps out is quality then? On another note, I fail to see how I put words in your mouth. 

I never said that the Nukige they pumped out were quality, though some of them are not bad (if you are into Nukige) However they put out quite a bit of content, much more than the 1-2 a year like you are referring to and all.... without having to rely on crowdfunding! 

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Incorrect. It means that most of what Sekai Project has put out kickstarter or not has been mediocre. Though I admit I was pleasantly surprised with the Steam Version of Grisaia it was far less censored than I thought it was going to be.

Would you have no problem with this system if Sekai Project were to put other, bigger, quality products instead of going for the small groups and providing PR and support?

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There really is no point in trying to discuss it with you any further because now you're definitely arguing over subjective things like quality and talking in circles along with assuming Sekai has the cash reserves to put stuff out without crowd sourcing.

 

Though I would be curious to see how much MG put out in its first years. I do recall back in 2011 when I first came across them, they had next to nothing to offer. 

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Would you have no problem with this system if Sekai Project were to put other, bigger, quality products instead of going for the small groups and providing PR and support?

No, I would have problem with this system regardless, it doesn't matter how often or what kind of projects they put out, they shouldn't need to have a crowdfunding/fundraising campaign before they do something, and yes I know they are just a publisher and not a developer.

There really is no point in trying to discuss it with you any further because now you're definitely arguing over subjective things like quality and talking in circles along with assuming Sekai has the cash reserves to put stuff out without crowd sourcing.

Though I would be curious to see how much MG put out in its first years. I do recall back in 2011 when I first came across them, they had next to nothing to offer.

Well then feel free to not respond anymore we obviously aren't going to see eye to eye.
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I'd like to reiterate - No one is scamming the consumers. You can opt-out at any given time before the campaign ends. Every tier reward is considered a gift for backing up the project. The ass-high tiers aren't aimed at your average user, but rich collectors; if they only feel content, they have every single right to back up the project; it's their money and their own choice and you have no fucking right to complain about it.

 

I really don't have much sympathy for collectors getting preyed upon by overpriced collectibles, or even mainstream buyers (often kids) getting preyed upon by DLC which offers cosmetic items.

OH MY GOD, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

 

Again, that's not how the market works. Everything is decided by simple laws of supply and demand. The higher the tier, the lower the supply; it's only normal the prices will be a lot bigger than the mainstream tiers; in return, those backers are guaranteed with the right for uniqueness - from things like gifts from the developers, talks with their favourite guy from the team or classy collectibles. Those tiers will be always out of the reach for the majority of backers anyway, that's why they are considered special.

 

You can't use the argument that a "a single, original picture done and signed by a well-known lead artist isn't even worth as much". It will be worth as much, as market decides and certain people (like die-hard fans or collectors) will pay a lot to get it; not to even mention it's actual value skyrockets afterwards - just because - it's something unique. In the end, it's them getting a lot more from the campaign, not the devs "scamming" poor collectors or backers.

 

The fact a finished game might come out later at a lower price doesn't make the devs scammers, either. Again, backers are not partners in business; it's a form of patronage, where backers can pay as much as they want to; they're considered supporters and that feeling alone is often enough for a lot of those people to feel happy about. Aside from that, most games that have been backed up through kickstarter prove to remain superior over a standard digital version, released afterwards. It's also cool to have your name included in the credits, isn't it?

 

Incorrect. It means that most of what Sekai Project has put out kickstarter or not has been mediocre. Though I admit I was pleasantly surprised with the Steam Version of Grisaia it was far less censored than I thought it was going to be.

I'm not even sure anymore, whether you're trolling on purpose, or just got lost in thoughts. I have yet to see a single indie game with such overall quality and usage of Live 2D like Nekopara. From what I saw, everyone praised Toko for it's worldbuilding and storyline. WEE is good vn as well and there's a couple of great looking, interested projects coming up. I'm really happy SP is actively helping western and japanese indies to appear on the market, progressively building the western scene; much more than FUWA or any other group or company ever did. Future doesn't lie on bigshots, it's build by thousands of small, hardworking people, who actually provide the foundation. SP was never big, nor had the huge funds, nor ever said anything about making thing the "professional" way, other publishers do.

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I'm trying to see the negative here, and I just can't find it.

 

As a consumer, I have two possible modes when it comes to a Kickstarter project that I want the final product of:

 

  1. I pledge
  2. I don't

If I pledge, I am only harmed if the project fails after being funded.  As far as I'm aware, that hasn't happened.  So no harm done.

 

If I do not pledge, I am only harmed if a project I want fails to be funded and not brought over as a result.  And even then, that only holds true if it would have otherwise been brought over if Sekai Project had been using a different business model.  Since this is pretty much impossible to accurately gauge, the default assumption based on Sekai Project's past performance is that no harm has been done.

 

If you don't pledge to Kickstarters, or even just not to Sekai Project's Kickstarters, you are still able to buy products they release.  So in that aspect there is literally no difference between different methods from a consumer standpoint because the result is exactly the same.

 

The only other reason I could see for claiming that Sekai Project using Kickstarter is a bad thing is from sort of ideological standpoint predicated on the premise that Kickstarter should only be used as a desperation move.  And frankly, I doubt that's a stance that Kickstarter would stand behind, so it only holds as much water as the crowdfunding  populace grant it, which is to say not much.  Evidence suggests that people prioritize their crowdfunding based on what they are interested in rather than what projects need outside funding the most.

 

The only other other reason I could see would be if one were to claim to be some sort of moral or ethical authority on how crowdfunding should or should not be pursued regardless of the actual consequences to the consumer or desires of those doing the funding.  In which case I guess I just don't believe in your authority as much as you do.

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I don't really know what has been going on here and I feel like my brain cells will go down the drain if I read it all, but about the overuse of kickstarter: I don't care. The fans are getting their games, the company is getting their profit, VNs are getting more popular, it's basically what Fuwa has been trying to do, to make VNs popular on the west in a completely legal way. Basically, they're doing stuff, that's already a lot. I mean, if you only care about the big guns, we're getting the whole Grisaia trilogy and Clannad, that's pretty big.

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It continually baffles me as to why people complain that its so hard to buy VNs, and then a company comes along bringing multiple VNs over in a way that has, so far, worked perfectly, and those same people then complain that they are bringing over VNs.

 

except Narcissu 1st & 2nd, Sunrider: Mask of Arcadius, and Rising Angels: Reborn, every other game that they ever made cost over $10 (yes i know there's a steam summer sale). some like Sunrider Academy will be hard to get, so dont think its easy to get them.

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except Narcissu 1st & 2nd, Sunrider: Mask of Arcadius, and Rising Angels: Reborn, every other game that they ever made cost over $10 (yes i know there's a steam summer sale). some like Sunrider Academy will be hard to get, so dont think its easy to get them.

 

It's easy to get them, not having money is a different issue.

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To clarify, the moot point is what kind of VN's they are kickstarting and bringing over.

Let's see:

  • Memory's Dogma
  • Human Reignition Project

My, my, that's really a lot (!) to consider SP might fail just from the sheer ammount of work they have to do. Aside from that, they're both promising games in terms of storyline and Memory's Dogma looks way better than most vn's often published by all those well-established japanese studios.

 

I nearly forgot about Clannad, but I doubt there's a lot to do, since most of their work is already done for this moment.

 

At this point this thread is just going in circles if you want feel free to lock it.

I really can't find a single reasonable point why this thread was brought into existence.

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While there are a ton of issues with this thread, the main thing here is that people are making claims about Kickstarter issues with other developers. If you are going to say that sekai is terrible because they use Kickstarter, then please cite examples of said mistakes with Kickstarter sekai made. Otherwise it's just an argument full of fallacies or straight up trolling.

 

The whole 18+ Grisaia fiasco comes to mind. 

 

Let's see:

  • Memory's Dogma
  • Human Reignition Project

My, my, that's really a lot (!) to consider SP might fail just from the sheer ammount of work they have to do. Aside from that, they're both promising games in terms of storyline and Memory's Dogma looks way better than most vn's often published by all those well-established japanese studios.

 

Only if you despise moege or something. You also shouldn't judge a book by it's cover. 

 

It continually baffles me as to why people complain that its so hard to buy VNs, and then a company comes along bringing multiple VNs over in a way that has, so far, worked perfectly, and those same people then complain that they are bringing over VNs.

 

Want to just go back to pirating them and getting almost no releases and having to rely on fan translations? 

 

People only complain about the availability of Japanese VNs, to which SP released like 4-5? That doesn't really change the fact of the matter. People are complaining because of their methods not solely because they're localizing games.

Also the line about fan  translations is all sorts of hilarious. Fan translators have put out much more than all three localization companies combined, and that's not even counting for the fact that many official localizations have used fan translations. I would much rather be stuck with only fan translations than only be stuck with official releases.

 

This statement means that using Kickstarter automatically means the product will be of worse quality, yes?

 

Considering they're rushing through Clannad's translation because of it, you could say so. 

 

So all the nukige that MG pumps out is quality then? On another note, I fail to see how I put words in your mouth. 

 

Nukige at least offer something you don't find in almost any story VNs. Also to that specific genre some of the stuff MG have released are pretty good.

 

Though I would be curious to see how much MG put out in its first years. I do recall back in 2011 when I first came across them, they had next to nothing to offer. 

https://vndb.org/p428

 

I'm not even sure anymore, whether you're trolling on purpose, or just got lost in thoughts. I have yet to see a single indie game with such overall quality and usage of Live 2D like Nekopara. From what I saw, everyone praised Toko for it's worldbuilding and storyline. WEE is good vn as well and there's a couple of great looking, interested projects coming up. I'm really happy SP is actively helping western and japanese indies to appear on the market, progressively building the western scene; much more than FUWA or any other group or company ever did. Future doesn't lie on bigshots, it's build by thousands of small, hardworking people, who actually provide the foundation. SP was never big, nor had the huge funds, nor ever said anything about making thing the "professional" way, other publishers do.

 

There's quite a few games that use the same mechanics as nekopara, and even then that and the art where the only two things that game had going for it. Oh, wait that doesn't even matter since SP didn't make the game. They did the translation which came out bad. 

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Also the line about fan  translations is all sorts of hilarious. Fan translators have put out much more than all three localization companies combined, and that's not even counting for the fact that many official localizations have used fan translations. I would much rather be stuck with only fan translations than only be stuck with official releases.

 

Are you serious? I can't even begin thinking about a reasonable reason to prefer relaying on Fan-TL rather than official releases.

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