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The ToHeart2 discussion thread


TexasDice

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  • 4 weeks later...

Whenever I ignored Yuma completely during march and went home instead, I got the Yuuji ending. 

 

Oh I see what you mean. Yes you need to figure out the following to work out how to encounter various characters out of their obviously flagged positions:

 

There's no real spoiler in this:

 

Yuma and Manaka are friends

Lucy and the Twins are friends

 

Lucy and the twins are unlocked after one route is completed.

Yuuki is unlocked after 2 routes are completed.

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  • 4 months later...

Whats wrong with this VN? 

 

Protagonist has zero personality, is completely illogical and of course as usual completely unlikable. The club thing he was forced into had me completely shocked. First he tries to desperately get out, then the next time he sees Karin, he flees to hide. Next day he suddenly recalls joining the club and goes and behaves as the most diligent of club members given the circumstances. Taakaki, when someone ropes you into a club, you just don't meet.... It's that simple... And Karin is a bitch by the way. Yuma is unlikable, Manaka is unlikable, Tamaki makes me wish the protagonist beat the shit out of her, Konomi is just a bit too airheaded. The best heroine by far is actually Yuuji....  Now i haven't met the other ones, but i'm amazed to have such a lineup of solely uninteresting to straight up rage inducing heroines.

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"Faux tough guy" where did that come from?" Because i think Tama deserves to get clobbered at least once after all that crap she does? Well, I do get annoyed by heroines that does nothing but exploit and abuse, and additionally an protagonist as docile as a sloth, and can't even stand up for himself for anything. People complained a lot about Yuuki in Koi to senkyo chocolate, but this guy is much, much worse.

 

Well, Yuma only gave me a bad first impression, but since i decided on Tama's route early on, i've not had much to do with Yuma other than the barrage of insults she spouted (well, i get why she was annoyed)

Edited by Stormwolf
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"Faux tough guy" where did that come from?"

From the fact that you post the exact same thing into every single thread on this board? 

I'm sorry if you feel insulted by me not liking your favorite vn's or protagonists. I post my opinion in a discussion thread, either put me on ignore or deal with it. 

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"Faux tough guy" where did that come from?"

 I'm sorry if you feel insulted by me not liking your favorite vn's or protagonists. I post my opinion in a discussion thread, either put me on ignore or deal with it. 

Hmm. Yeah, what a mystery.

Actually, we've been dealing with it, lol. I'm just saying that your ridiculous attitude when it comes to relationships is probably pretty incompatible with this VN. If you can't handle the protagonist not being totally domineering then you'll naturally have a problem with this one.

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Well, it was the second time he took a jab at me, so..  

 

And i'm not expecting the protagonist to be domineering like you say. Just have a personality, Not falling for ridiculous schemes, being able to say no when called for. Not really much to ask for. 

Edited by Stormwolf
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And i'm not expecting the protagonist to be domineering like you say. Just have a personality, Not falling for ridiculous schemes, being able to say no when called for. Not really much to ask for. 

Welp, you're most likely out of luck, then.  Most VN protags aren't exactly interesting, smart or decisive characters.  The ones that do have real personalities are pretty abnormal, like Yuuji or Shirou, and tend to be polarizing.

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Haven't read FS/N so i don't know about Shirou, but Yuuji is near perfect. Well, i do know most protagonist don't have personalities and I can survive these protagonists, but it's agonizing if the vn doesn't give you something else to make up for it. At this point this vn really haven't. But i'll brave on and perhaps some heroine becomes my all time favorite heroine, who knows! Well, the original post was just going to be about how weird he was about that club :P  Anyone should think so.

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Sounds like you need to give up while you're ahead then since whatever it is that you hate about this VN is not going to go away no matter what route you choose. With 9 routes, most people have 2 or 3 that don't appeal to them for some reason (even me) and find varying appeal in the rest but this is clearly not your genre. This game is so old that To Heart 2 virtually defined the genre of extreme nice guy donkan protagonist and that doesn't go away no matter which route you choose.

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  • 1 year later...
On 12/21/2015 at 2:15 PM, Decay said:

I think your faux tough guy shtick is inherently incompatible with this VN.

BTW, Yuma owns.

Cheers! to Yuma owning!
I guess it's .. called "necro" or something, to respond to a multi-years old thread, so apologies up-front if I'm guilty.  The "To Heart 2 X-Rated English patch" was recently released, at least I read that it's pretty new.  In any event, I've just played my 2nd route, and I haven't been able to find any discussions that aren't a couple years old...   If I should move this to a different thread that I missed, or even if I should just remove it, just let me know...

SO - I can relate to your replies here...  I mean - I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that _many_ of us were frustrated with the protag takaaki at some point, during some of the routes.  His tendency of inaction, inability to say what needs be said, etc.. for large parts of a route - but I'm finding that "ineffectual MC" is pretty typical for these types of VN (Romance, "Moege/Charage ?").  And for the two routes I have completed so far, Manaka and Yuma routes, there is definitely some frustration (esp. Manaka's route for me).  So, ya just deal with the frustration best as ya can if it feels worth it. 

For the Heroines - I think I might be a bit atypical in my judgement of Heroines - I tend to appreciate the good and overlook the bad/annoying up to a fair degree.  I liked both, and in fact I love Yuma (I loved Manaka too, to be honest)..  Point here might be that the common route portion is really not enough to make a fair assessment of what these characters are all about - as is typical, they're all hiding things, and have backstory that can be pretty touching and/or interesting.  Again, I'm not the hyper-critical VN enthusiast because as a would-be-writer, I know how much more difficult it is than it looks to maintain an accessible, immersive story experience, esp. while trying to keep things "light" (it's far easier to go all out with hardship, tragedy and heartbreak imho)  It seems that the clueless, indecisive, "spiineless" MC traits come out in order to create or exacerbate drama, and perhaps more obvious - just to delay conflict-resolution that would otherwise bring a route/story quickly to it's end; frustration city.  The Clueless MC  is an easy alternative to really great character & story development, what with deadlines and so forth to deal with, not to mention the heartbreaking lack of inspired-genius that we hope will always appear right when we need it but often doesn't.

I can live with the clueless idiot MC, begrudgingly, but -  aargh - what's got me a bit sideways right now ... hell, it's probably spoiler material come think of it, is...

Spoiler

Jekyll & Hyde MC...  I realize I may be overreacting a bit, but - it's not a choice I'm making..
TL;DR  H-scenes - am I the only one to be very disappointed by our "kind, gentle, nice guy" protagonist turning in to dominant/sadist/near-rapist/caveman, mercilessly pounding and debasing our sweet heroine, who just lost her virginity moments before?    This is not a judgment of any who are fine with it, believe me.  I wish I was fine with it..  but it messes me up..   Just saying that the first-time, in a moege/romantic VN specifically, isn't necessarily where you break out PILEDRIVER or where you ignore when she says "You're not listening to me.... 'No - not here.".   aaargh...

Really?  It felt like watching an NTR?
It really messed with me.. the whole "she wants it, deep down" ethos.. Totally ruined the whole damn route for me it seems ..  not my choice.. just really diverged from my "romantic" headspace.. IN FACT... when I separated (diverged) from the MC, him no longer being like an avatar, i.e. the vicarious experience relationship - it was like he was someone else, and now I was suddenly watching an NTR!! ...  that's it.. that's pretty much what it felt like.  Uhh... I'm not in to NTR, obviously.   Ended up angry and pretty bummed, cuz I'd been enjoying the route a lot..  Wanted that nice, heartfelt "confession" or exchange of emotion, but... damn -  so far haven't seen one.   No, I don't only like vanilla, far from it... but this seemed contrary to the entire VN up to this point ...  is this really the fantasy for the first-time of young people in Japan?  (I totally pounded her when I broke her cherry!  My gf is really a submissive, sex-starved, slutty pervert who loves me to force her - ready for anyone who's assertive to NTR her at any moment, yeah!!!)   I apologize - I am certain that is not the case.  It seems to be the fantasy of many eroge writers though..  heh...  but in a romance??  Great artwork though - some of the H is really quite good, and not even mosaic in this version... of course it is "late-sex" and "low-sexual-content" but what is there is a solid effort imho...  (other than my above issue with the MC behavior) 
 

 Similar vibe from another VN - MAJIKOI spoiler here:

Spoiler

If you have not read the MAJIKOI series - any routes really but specifically Margit's - THIS IS A MAJIKOI SPOILER RIGHT HERE!

My feeling here in ToHeart2-X-Rated is very much the same or more than it is for MAJIKOI.  Though they are among the HOTTEST H-scenes I've experienced, for sure -   I have the same depressed reaction during, e.g. Margit's route... such that I wanted Yamato to die, be killed, disappear.  Totally hate him now.  He's sadistic and dominant over pretty much all the girls, but in Margit's route he goes really far with it imho... when they're on Christiane's bed... man... guess my tolerance for "good-guy" sadists is on the low side.  A year down the road? No problem! - but to blatantly tear-down one's beautiful love interest's self-respect and dignity when they're just beginning to discover & establish their sexual nature/identity -  doesn't feel like good-guy behavior....

Note - I'm not trying to criticize or pick fights at all.  I'm looking for any others who just might get what I'm saying..  A little commiseration perhaps, heh..  I only started reading VNs in July, but I've been reading them non-stop practically - every day, since.  I'm learning Japanese, and I'm determined (languages seem to come to me relatively quickly, but this is the most challenging yet) - so at some point I won't be depending on the translation efforts of others, but I'm several month's away from that at minimum...  Anyway, I'm going to say that in this genre, right now, my favorite VN has been "Wagamama High Spec" - I have a very high opinion of pretty much all aspects of that VN.  Underneath, it continually surprised and impressed me - and it was definitely not limited to vanilla in the H, which arrived very late in-game but was reasonably plentiful once it arrived, incl bonus etc....  Played "Seinarukana ... Eternity Sword 2" which was more than just "H.S. Romance" for sure, and it's a favorite too, but it's quite different than the other VNs -  but one thing they have in common is that the MC remained a real  "good guy" even while banging lol..  Kouki did have some little bit of playfully sadistic sex at times, but never the first time - where he's very sensitive to the heroine's feelings etc.. - and never overboard.  Let's see - "Hatsukoi", some aspects were great, including visuals, and overall liked it; MC was pretty disappointing at times here too; "Koisuru Natsu No Last Resort", Protag was mostly really good in this, far less spineless than others.  Also like the heroines, esp. Umi - earnest, smart airhead whose naivete is tied to her backstory-- H and Art, esp for Umi, is VERY GOOD (She's quite beautiful. heh..), "Hara Kano" (surprised by the overall common theme of all endings (conception of "love child", preg-sex), but ehh, had fun anyway), recently started ToHeart2 obviously, which I'm trying to find a way to re-connect with... and a couple others whose names escape me right now..

Extreme apologies for my overly-verbose first post.

I'm afraid to play any more routes now... don't want another mind-f...   though this would likely be ok in Tama-nee's route I suppose, where it's least likely to happen... 

Well, cheers - Stephen

Edited by aprilia1k
For consistency, comments on "Koisuru Natsu" chars
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22 hours ago, aprilia1k said:

Cheers! to Yuma owning!
I guess it's .. called "necro" or something, to respond to a multi-years old thread, so apologies up-front if I'm guilty.  The "To Heart 2 X-Rated English patch" was recently released, at least I read that it's pretty new.  In any event, I've just played my 2nd route, and I haven't been able to find any discussions that aren't a couple years old...   If I should move this to a different thread that I missed, or even if I should just remove it, just let me know...

SO - I can relate to your replies here...  I mean - I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that _many_ of us were frustrated with the protag takaaki at some point, during some of the routes.  His tendency of inaction, inability to say what needs be said, etc.. for large parts of a route - but I'm finding that "ineffectual MC" is pretty typical for these types of VN (Romance, "Moege/Charage ?").  And for the two routes I have completed so far, Manaka and Yuma routes, there is definitely some frustration (esp. Manaka's route for me).  So, ya just deal with the frustration best as ya can if it feels worth it. 

For the Heroines - I think I might be a bit atypical in my judgement of Heroines - I tend to appreciate the good and overlook the bad/annoying up to a fair degree.  I liked both, and in fact I love Yuma (I loved Manaka too, to be honest)..  Point here might be that the common route portion is really not enough to make a fair assessment of what these characters are all about - as is typical, they're all hiding things, and have backstory that can be pretty touching and/or interesting.  Again, I'm not the hyper-critical VN enthusiast because as a would-be-writer, I know how much more difficult it is than it looks to maintain an accessible, immersive story experience, esp. while trying to keep things "light" (it's far easier to go all out with hardship, tragedy and heartbreak imho)  It seems that the clueless, indecisive, "spiineless" MC traits come out in order to create or exacerbate drama, and perhaps more obvious - just to delay conflict-resolution that would otherwise bring a route/story quickly to it's end; frustration city.  The Clueless MC  is an easy alternative to really great character & story development, what with deadlines and so forth to deal with, not to mention the heartbreaking lack of inspired-genius that we hope will always appear right when we need it but often doesn't.

I can live with the clueless idiot MC, begrudgingly, but -  aargh - what's got me a bit sideways right now ... hell, it's probably spoiler material come think of it, is...

  Reveal hidden contents

Jekyll & Hyde MC...  I realize I may be overreacting a bit, but - it's not a choice I'm making..
TL;DR  H-scenes - am I the only one to be very disappointed by our "kind, gentle, nice guy" protagonist turning in to dominant/sadist/near-rapist/caveman, mercilessly pounding and debasing our sweet heroine, who just lost her virginity moments before?    This is not a judgment of any who are fine with it, believe me.  I wish I was fine with it..  but it messes me up..   Just saying that the first-time, in a moege/romantic VN specifically, isn't necessarily where you break out PILEDRIVER or where you ignore when she says "You're not listening to me.... 'No - not here.".   aaargh...

Really?  It felt like watching an NTR?
It really messed with me.. the whole "she wants it, deep down" ethos.. Totally ruined the whole damn route for me it seems ..  not my choice.. just really diverged from my "romantic" headspace.. IN FACT... when I separated (diverged) from the MC, him no longer being like an avatar, i.e. the vicarious experience relationship - it was like he was someone else, and now I was suddenly watching an NTR!! ...  that's it.. that's pretty much what it felt like.  Uhh... I'm not in to NTR, obviously.   Ended up angry and pretty bummed, cuz I'd been enjoying the route a lot..  Wanted that nice, heartfelt "confession" or exchange of emotion, but... damn -  so far haven't seen one.   No, I don't only like vanilla, far from it... but this seemed contrary to the entire VN up to this point ...  is this really the fantasy for the first-time of young people in Japan?  (I totally pounded her when I broke her cherry!  My gf is really a submissive, sex-starved, slutty pervert who loves me to force her - ready for anyone who's assertive to NTR her at any moment, yeah!!!)   I apologize - I am certain that is not the case.  It seems to be the fantasy of many eroge writers though..  heh...  but in a romance??  Great artwork though - some of the H is really quite good, and not even mosaic in this version... of course it is "late-sex" and "low-sexual-content" but what is there is a solid effort imho...  (other than my above issue with the MC behavior) 
 

 Similar vibe from another VN - MAJIKOI spoiler here:

  Reveal hidden contents

If you have not read the MAJIKOI series - any routes really but specifically Margit's - THIS IS A MAJIKOI SPOILER RIGHT HERE!

My feeling here in ToHeart2-X-Rated is very much the same or more than it is for MAJIKOI.  Though they are among the HOTTEST H-scenes I've experienced, for sure -   I have the same depressed reaction during, e.g. Margit's route... such that I wanted Yamato to die, be killed, disappear.  Totally hate him now.  He's sadistic and dominant over pretty much all the girls, but in Margit's route he goes really far with it imho... when they're on Christiane's bed... man... guess my tolerance for "good-guy" sadists is on the low side.  A year down the road? No problem! - but to blatantly tear-down one's beautiful love interest's self-respect and dignity when they're just beginning to discover & establish their sexual nature/identity -  doesn't feel like good-guy behavior....

Note - I'm not trying to criticize or pick fights at all.  I'm looking for any others who just might get what I'm saying..  A little commiseration perhaps, heh..  I only started reading VNs in July, but I've been reading them non-stop practically - every day, since.  I'm learning Japanese, and I'm determined (languages seem to come to me relatively quickly, but this is the most challenging yet) - so at some point I won't be depending on the translation efforts of others, but I'm several month's away from that at minimum...  Anyway, I'm going to say that in this genre, right now, my favorite VN has been "Wagamama High Spec" - I have a very high opinion of pretty much all aspects of that VN.  Underneath, it continually surprised and impressed me - and it was definitely not limited to vanilla in the H, which arrived very late in-game but was reasonably plentiful once it arrived, incl bonus etc....  Played "Seinarukana ... Eternity Sword 2" which was more than just "H.S. Romance" for sure, and it's a favorite too, but it's quite different than the other VNs -  but one thing they have in common is that the MC remained a real  "good guy" even while banging lol..  Kouki did have some little bit of playfully sadistic sex at times, but never the first time - where he's very sensitive to the heroine's feelings etc.. - and never overboard.  Let's see - "Hatsukoi", some aspects were great, including visuals, and overall liked it; MC was pretty disappointing at times here too; "Koisuru Natsu No Last Resort", "Hara Kano" (surprised by the overall common theme of all endings, but ehh, had fun anyway), recently started ToHeart2 obviously, which I'm trying to find a way to re-connect with... and a couple others whose names escape me right now..

Extreme apologies for my overly-verbose first post.

I'm afraid to play any more routes now... don't want another mind-f...   though this would likely be ok in Tama-nee's route I suppose, where it's least likely to happen... 

Well, cheers - Stephen

Hi and welcome to the forum too!

I had opened a new thread after it was released here but that's ok:

As for your spoiler complaints, you are not alone, I agree with you (I'm the project translator.)

Spoiler

I did think that most of the H scenes were out of character for the MC. The X rated version was the extremely popular second edition of the game where the first was a console version that was all ages and had slightly different endings to include the H scenes. His behaviour is not universally that way in all routes by the way, with him being more in character for about 3 of the routes. I won't spoil which ones since you haven't finished it yet.

As for Yuma, I agree, she was my 2nd favourite heroine so I agree with you. I love tsunderes but I only love classic tsunderes and I love them much more if there's a logical reason for them being tsun in the first place. To that end, both tsundere characters in this meet that criteria (Yuma and Ruri.) Enjoy!

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