Jump to content

Should I tell them that "VN ≠ Eroge"?


Recommended Posts

Well you can also explain it simply to them by comparing VNs to mangas or movies. For mangas you can explain with simple categories like there are Shonen/Shoujo (target teens: usually sfw stories without nudity or sex, except for occasional fanservice), Seinen (target adults: sex can be used in the plot but rarely central to the plot -there may be counterexamples but I can't think of any at the moment) and hentai (target adults too, but sex is central to usually non-existent plot).

 

For movies it's the same... PG-13 for teens, R for adults and finally plain and simple pornos. Each have their purpose, each are different. Same for VNs.

 

Then again it's up to you and your amount of patience. If you believe they can be interested, why not try? If you know them enough to believe they won't care, why would you?

Link to post
Share on other sites

No. Eroges and Visual novels goes on hand. You can play them for diferent reasons but the heart of the matter that the medium is tied heavily with porn to the point that the general opinion is that VNs are porn wish fullfillment medium.

 

Dont need to be ashamed to acknowledge the main aspect of the medium.

 

For the record of the VNs you played how many of them had ero content?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you can also explain it simply to them by comparing VNs to mangas or movies. For mangas you can explain with simple categories like there are Shonen/Shoujo (target teens: usually sfw stories without nudity or sex, except for occasional fanservice), Seinen (target adults: sex can be used in the plot but rarely central to the plot -there may be counterexamples but I can't think of any at the moment) and hentai (target adults too, but sex is central to usually non-existent plot).

 

For movies it's the same... PG-13 for teens, R for adults and finally plain and simple pornos. Each have their purpose, each are different. Same for VNs.

 

Then again it's up to you and your amount of patience. If you believe they can be interested, why not try? If you know them enough to believe they won't care, why would you?

Hmm, yeah, it's always good to enlarge our circle. As much as I could, I'll try to make them to enthusiastically read VNs.

 

 

No. Eroges and Visual novels goes on hand. You can play them for diferent reasons but the heart of the matter that the medium is tied heavily with porn to the point that the general opinion is that VNs are porn wish fullfillment medium.

 

Dont need to be ashamed to acknowledge the main aspect of the medium.

 

For the record of the VNs you played how many of them had ero content?

Well, for those scenes which I feel like skipping, I always just open the backlog in case there are some plot-related important points. About the numbers, hmmm, I don't quite remember. Let me check my VNDB, let's see.

 

Oh, it's quite interesting that the result I get from counting all VNs I've read and am reading is 58 non-ero and 70 ero. In percentage, it's 45.3125 % non-ero, nearly 50:50. Although most of those non ero games are just short kinetic novels.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, yeah, it's always good to enlarge our circle. As much as I could, I'll try to make them to enthusiastically read VNs.

 

 

Well, for those scenes which I feel like skipping, I always just open the backlog in case there are some plot-related important points. About the numbers, hmmm, I don't quite remember. Let me check my VNDB, let's see.

 

Oh, it's quite interesting that the result I get from counting all VNs I've read and am reading is 58 non-ero and 70 ero. In percentage, it's 45.3125 % non-ero, nearly 50:50. Although most of those non ero games are just short kinetic novels.

As i said its not relevant the reason for what you played but more what content you played. Now how many of those VNs were on consoles?

 

Because the stigma of VN=Porn will come frequently when talking about PC tittles. Besides porn also most consider VNs for lonely otakus that play them for virtual GFs (Hence why many labels VNs as date sims) so there is really little you can do to change your usual circle of friends perception of the medium.

 

Doesnt help either the many people being vocal about the non h versions being worthless because the porn gets removed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, actually I don't play much console VNs, only some PSP brewed VNs, Dangan Ronpa, 3 or 4 GBA and NDS VNs, almost all VNDS ported VNs and (does android VNs being considered as console VNs? if yes, then some of android VNs).

About changing what they think of VNs in general, maybe it's hard thing to do but it's not impossible, as long as they still understand human's language and have the willingness to hear and accept other people's opinions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

VNs = eroge is exactly as inaccurate as strategy games = turn based games (disregarding the entire RTS genre and turn-based RPGs).

 

Guy A: "Hey, I like playing strategy games."

Guy B: "Meh, that's some turn-based crap for slow people. I like games that require some actual skills and reflex."

Guy A: "Dude, I'm playing Starcraft... Against Korean teams..."

Guy B: "Yeah, yeah, slowpoke. I'll pass, I'm not into yawnfests."

 

Come on, that's just silly.

 

71 out of 175 VNs I have read didn't have any sexual content (I think the only console titles included there are 3 Phoenix Wright games). And I actually prefer stuff with high sexual content...

All VNs on Steam don't have any ero. Sure, most of them are either non-Japanese garbage, or censored titles, but still.

Some of the most popular VNs (like Steins;Gate or Key's titles) either are only all-ages, or are definitely more focused on all-ages versions. There's really plenty of non-ero VNs out there.

 

But most importantly, in case of VNs presence of sexual content doesn't automatically mean that everything is focused mainly on porn (unlike on the West, where stuff that has actual ero, is usually just a plotless porn). I think that's the most important misconception really.

 

Stereotypes can always be changed. And they should be changed, because otherwise there will only be a market for nukiges, or such absolute garbage as Sakura Whatever series. Titles like this sell better than story-oriented stuff precisely because everyone thinks that VN = porn. People interested in storylines won't get into something they view as plotless porn.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, actually I don't play much console VNs, only some PSP brewed VNs, Dangan Ronpa, 3 or 4 GBA and NDS VNs, almost all VNDS ported VNs and (does android VNs being considered as console VNs? if yes, then some of android VNs).

About changing what they think of VNs in general, maybe it's hard thing to do but it's not impossible, as long as they still understand human's language and have the willingness to hear and accept other people's opinions.

 

Well thats the very heart of the problem. Though i think if you recomend anything that doesnt revolves around the MC getting laid you will get close to closing the gap. So DR, 999, VLRs i think are the VNs you should recomend.

 

 

 

But most importantly, in case of VNs presence of sexual content doesn't automatically mean that everything is focused mainly on porn (unlike on the West, where stuff that has actual ero, is usually just a plotless porn). I think that's the most important misconception really.

 

Doesnt matter if its the focus. If your VN contains porn and it revolves around getting laid with girls then you will always get the same results. VNs that dont revolve around these two are the ones that get played by casuals and new to the medium.

 

Again doesnt help people complaining about porn removal on VNs because you create the perception in people´s mind: "Wow these people refuses to play that game because he isnt going to get rewarded with Porn". Its like saying you play Huniepop for the gameplay. No one is simply going to believe you.

 

Is an stigma that wont dissapear. Heck even in Japan VNs are considered for Otakus wich are the Nerds of the japanese community.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesnt matter if its the focus. If your VN contains porn and it revolves around getting laid with girls then you will always get the same results. VNs that dont revolve around these two are the ones that get played by casuals and new to the medium.

Are you sure?  That's a narrative that frequently gets bandied about, but is it true?  I think more people than you might realize got into VNs because they stumbled on some random nukige when they were horny.  The notion that casuals and those new to the medium uniformly avoid VNs with porn is... a polite fiction, at the very least.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you sure?  That's a narrative that frequently gets bandied about, but is it true?  I think more people than you might realize got into VNs because they stumbled on some random nukige when they were horny.  The notion that casuals and those new to the medium uniformly avoid VNs with porn is... a polite fiction, at the very least.

Can confirm, I stumbled onto Katawa Shoujo and was like, "Ooooh, games with pr0n!  I need moar!".  When I started reading others I only picked ones with sexual content in them, I'm a little ashamed to admit.  That was the reason I downloaded MGQ.  Dear God, if I could go back in time and stop myself from reading part of it, I would.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you sure?  That's a narrative that frequently gets bandied about, but is it true?  I think more people than you might realize got into VNs because they stumbled on some random nukige when they were horny.  The notion that casuals and those new to the medium uniformly avoid VNs with porn is... a polite fiction, at the very least.

Most "normies" would rather watch Hentai or see normal porn. Sure there is the angle of being "forbidden" but thing is steam and console VNs still fares better than its PC uncensored counterparts because of its lack of sex content wich people play on its story and character values witouth specting being rewarded with porn.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll explain my perspective on things as I see people have given a lot of different opinion. In my opinion Eroge and Visual Novels do indeed go hand in hand, but that doesn't mean that every visual novel is an Eroge. Take Steins;Gate and Clannad as examples of that. While most Visual Novels do have Eroge in them I think well start seeing a change in that soon. There are indeed some like Steins;Gate that prove that a good story is enough to draw in the customers. While I say this I also never expect Eroge to stop being a part of Visual Novels, I don't particularly care for it, just like I don't care for fanservice but we need to accept the fact that its here to stay. So no, I do not think that a Visual Novel is instantly an Eroge, to be completely honest I think that some of them are worse because of the H-scenes in them (Muv-Luv Alternative). TL;DR While most Visual Novels do have Eroge, not all of them do, thus they are not the same thing, its as simple as that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Most "normies" would rather watch Hentai or see normal porn. Sure there is the angle of being "forbidden" but thing is steam and console VNs still fares better than its PC uncensored counterparts because of its lack of sex content wich people play on its story and character values witouth specting being rewarded with porn.

I think you're confusing what people are exposed to with what they want.  Imagine I could hack into Steam and upload a game like Sengoku Rance, it got onto the front page where people would notice it, and no one at Valve was around to do anything about it.  Eroge aren't on an even playing field with non-eroge due to exposure biases.  People can't buy games they don't even know about.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny thing, when I was thinking of downloading Fate/Stay Night (my first VN) I was all like "OMG, it has pr0n, maybe I shouldn't download it after all?" but when I started Monmusu Quest I did it for the fap, but stayed for the plot (real plot).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Uh-huh... you're not foolin' anyone ya know.....

The stuff gets serious around the second part, and shit gets real in the third part.

 

I won't deny that I was totally into monstergirls by the end of it (and I still am) but it has real plot. It even made me cry. I think. I believe monstergirl quest to be the prime example that the western belief of "it has porn, so I can't have story" is wrong, as it has titanics amount of it but a story, world, and character development that is just as big.

 

And to the guys that believe that all VN's are just porn, there is an easy way to fix that if they are into anime and that stuff. Tell them that Clannad, kanon, Steins;Gate, and that-thing-about-the-ghost-girl-that-I-don't-remember-the-name-of were all originally VN's. It worked for my friend at least. Tho if they are not into reading stuff for time to time they probably won't enjoy VN's much.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I find that the definition of a VN and an eroge varies from person to person, so I feel like it's more of an opinion than anything else.

 

Personally I mark the difference between a VN and eroge as a simple question: if the sex scenes were to be removed from the game / story, will it actually affect enjoyment in any of said game / story in any way?

 

Most of the good VNs I've read can be read through without the sex scenes, and it would not reduce the enjoyment of reading said VN in any way whatsoever. If anything, having sex scenes is a nice bonus if one happens to be somewhat horny at the particular time of reading. Can't say I ever was, because I'm usually too gripped by the story that I just roll my eyes at the H scenes and skip them if possible.

 

Eroges, on the other hand, are defined by me as games that cannot survive without the sex scenes. Games like Sengoku Rance and Monster Girl Quest come to mind. Think about it really - without the sex, the plot in these two games really begins to pale in comparison to actual well written stories. However, because of the element of sex, these games become enjoyable in their own right. In the case of MGQ, an average story becomes compelling enough for people to really get into it thanks to the sex.

 

In the end, it comes down to personal opinion. If people choose to be ignorant and write off well written VNs as nothing more than 'garbage hentai games', then it's their loss.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Visual Novels are just what the name implies; a novel that uses visual methods (read: Sprites,BG, and CG) to aid or improve the reading experience, and in adition it can coupled with music or audio. It can have choices and maybe some gameplay, but if the gameplay goes overboard it will stop being a "novel" and it will transform into a "game" , as a novel were you spend half the time doing something along the lines of RPG's or stuff that is more "playing" than "reading" is retarded.

 

An Eroge, is any and all games that have erotic content in any proportion or instance, period.

 

Not all VN's are Eroge, and not all Eroges are Visual Novels. Yes, nukiges are also Visual Novels, because it doesn't matter the fact that it has a basically non-existent story and no plot, it's still the story about how Mr protagonist does Heroine-san in 200 different ways or how the female lead is banged by half the creatures in the universe with a d*ck. It's the same thing as how there are porn Light Novels, the fact that the whole thing revolves around it doesn't mean it stop being a Light Novel, or Visual Novel in this case.

 

Seriously, the names are so self-explicative that I don't get how people keeps being confused.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Eroges, on the other hand, are defined by me as games that cannot survive without the sex scenes. Games like Sengoku Rance and Monster Girl Quest come to mind. Think about it really - without the sex, the plot in these two games really begins to pale in comparison to actual well written stories. However, because of the element of sex, these games become enjoyable in their own right. In the case of MGQ, an average story becomes compelling enough for people to really get into it thanks to the sex.

 

There's a difference between Rance And MGQ. Monster Girl Quest was a game for monster feitshists which incorporated ridiculously light, tacked-on-as-an-afterthought, RPG gameplay, and a story which started out as non-existent and ended up just generic. 

 

Sengoku Rance is different. The story is bad BUT the strategic turn-based gameplay is actually quite good. REALLY good, actually. Good enough to make the game an enjoyable experience without the story (I fast forwarded most of the story scenes and was just playing it like a strategic game.) How good is the gameplay? It came equal 23rd in RPGCodex's list of the top strategy games of all time. http://www.tacticularcancer.com/content.php?id=70

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...