GLM4475 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Well, I'll share some of my conversations with some guys over the internet. 1. Conversation with guy A: Me : Hey dude, you're a hardcore gamer, right? What about VN? What VN games have you played so far? Guy A : VN? Whuzzat? Me : You don't know? VN is (blahblah....). Some of the games are xxxxxxxxxxxx. Guy A : Those games, huh? You should just said eroge and I would have listed the games I've played. Me : 2. Conversation with guy B: Guy B : Dude, you like reading, right? Then you don't play computer games? Me : I do play computer games, a lot of them even, though since I like a more leisure and laid back kind of game, I didn't play much of video games. Guy B : Then do you have any games I could copy? I'm so utterrly bored I could die. Me : No problem, but I've deleted most of my games. The remaining games are mostly VNs. Games like xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, which one would you want to copy? Guy B : You play such games, dude? Why don't you just go search for H anime? Me : Geh? 3. Conversation with guy C: Me : This week is the start of summer holiday, right? You have any plans to go out? Guy C : No, I'm in energy saving mode this week. Just want to laze around at my room. Me : Aren't you always in energy-saving mode? Then what would you actually do in your room? Just eat and then sleep and then eat and then sleep and then eat and then ---- Guy C : Hey, stop it! I'm not that lazy of a guy. I'm going to finish playing all games in my long list of RPGs. What about you then? Me : I'm not a high schooler anymore so holiday doesn't make any difference to me, but if you're asking about the games I played recently, most of them are VNs. Guy C : VN? Never heard the term before, what is that? Me : You don't know? VN is (blahblah....). Some of the games are xxxxxxxxxxxx. (I felt like having a de ja vu) Guy C : Those games, huh? You should just said eroge and I would have understood. Me : *mumbling* (Damn, this is really a de ja vu) And I still have some other similar conversations, but I always can't respond properly against "VN = eroge" argument. I know that not all VNs contains erotic scenes and this argument should be easily countered. But I'm not a VN expert and I've only played not so much VNs compared to all VNs available. And most of the time I check a VN on VNDB, its rating is 18+. So, should I really tell them that "VN ≠ Eroge"? And what is the best argument to prove this? Terancam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronIsCrunchy Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Tell them to play Steins;Gate and to shut the hell up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuki Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 VN = Animal. Eroge = Dog. Dog = Animal, Animal # Dog. Eroge = VN, VN # Eroge. Or just ignore them and let them think however they want. Arguing with outsiders is pointless. I'm actually more concerned about those people who know the term "eroge" but not "visual novel". Terancam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 My general knowledge formed about Indonesia and VNs, and I apologize if this is wrong, is that a lot of PC gamers there are avid fans of VNs/eroge and Japanese culture in general, so I feel as though the answers your friends gave to you are probably the common rule for them, much similarly to how in Japan PC Games are mostly dating sims and/or eroge as well. But regardless, of course you can tell them there are VNs that aren't porn games, no one would be hurt by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12kami Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 My general knowledge formed about Indonesia and VNs, and I apologize if this is wrong, is that a lot of PC gamers there are avid fans of VNs/eroge and Japanese culture in general, so I feel as though the answers your friends gave to you are probably the common rule for them, much similarly to how in Japan PC Games are mostly dating sims and/or eroge as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcosis Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 By nowadays standards, eroge are visual novels with adult content. 18+ visual novel is basically an eroge. Your point is invalid. Pudding321 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonderfullyevil Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 What IceD said, but if you want to rebuke Guy B, tell him, "Hey, I play these for the porn AND the plot," because saying you play it for just the plot is unconvincing, no matter how true it may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Tell them to play Steins;Gate and to shut the hell up AaronIsCrunchy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReaper Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 personally i gave up. those who know whats going on understand the difference & those who dont...yeah most of them think you´re only making cheap excuses, trying to fap to whatever 2d waifu - covering it up with imaginary literary values - or put in another way: you´re trying to get your fucking fetish accepted by society, by making them believe its some sort of fine art. yvetox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLM4475 Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'm actually more concerned about those people who know the term "eroge" but not "visual novel". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashetania Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Those conversations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Yes you should tell them, unless you want your friends to associate VNs with porn games - which would be a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuki Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Yes you should tell them, unless you want your friends to associate VNs with porn games - which would be a shame. XReaper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlessn1ght Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Tell that a lot of the so called "eroge" get console ports, and those never contain H scenes. So, it would be clear that H isn't the central point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReaper Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 but- but i already did that & now they think i´m also fapping to all ages content.... advocatezz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Isn't that what they always do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcosis Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Tell that a lot of the so called "eroge" get console ports, and those never contain H scenes. So, it would be clear that H isn't the central point. Zenophilious, AaronIsCrunchy, Down and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlessn1ght Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'd love to prove how superficial that kind of statement is. To start with, VN's were never all-ages until late 90's/early 2000's, when Leaf and Key/Nexon made a distinction between oldschool eroge (aka sex romp games) and story-based ADV games with erotic content (ToHeart, One); it allowed new trends within the genre and shifted consumer interests - people stopped playing vn's just for the porn. With time, certain developers strayed from the common routes taken by most studios and began to work on games, that were primarily story-focused and had little to no erotic content at all. Kid remains well known for being one of the most influental studios in that sector, that made purely story-driven, all-ages games. Key made a couple of famous all-ages games as well. The all-ages market was never the central point of visual novel development within the industry. It just happened, because modern console market owners (Sony, Nintendo) do not allow adult content on their distribution channels (although NEC allowed it with it's PC-FX). Console market never played a huge role within the eroge industry anyway, the only reason for vn's to appear on consoles is because consoles are more popular when it comes to gaming; even today, PC's in Japan aren't considered the main platform for digital entertainment, although it's slowly changing. Even KID made 18+ games before they decided to shift to the console market in early 2000's; that didn't help them much anyway, cause they went bankrupt a couple of years later. In a lot of cases, only the most popular games get all-ages ports. It's certain all-ages games can do well (Clannad, for example), but it requires a completely different approach from the developers. All-ages ports rarely outsell original games. They are treated more as an addition in business practices, where both devs and publishers milk the money out fans by forcing them to buy different releases (they are suckers, they will buy everything), because "hey, there's an additional new character and two new routes, that weren't included in the original!". In the end, it's just another day of living for the developers, where they have to adapt to the everchanging market in order to stay afloat. TL&DR Console market owners forced developers to make all-ages ports, although they were never a major point within the japanese visual novel industry and will never be. Any other similiar games were a whim of the developers themselves and more often a risky experiment to probe the market trends; It's one of the reasons japanese studios don't focus purely on all-ages vn's; it's not what the community itself expects from them. You can continue to convince yourselves vn's are something more than just "porn", but the truth is much more prosaic; it's something we want, because we like it and there's nothing bad with that. 18+ vn's aren't "limited" because they are 18+; It's what both the devs and majority of consumers chose them to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Just tell them that the Japanese's perversion is the source of many great stories. Narcosis, traveler101, Chronopolis and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 All eroge are not visual novels, and all visual novels are not eroge--yet there's so much overlap that the terms are often used synonymously. Visual novel refers to a storytelling medium, while eroge refers to games with explicit sexual content. Unless you have very restricted interests (only interested if there's ero, or only interested if there's NOT ero), the terms ARE essentially interchangeable. A notable exception is when referring to Western-made VNs, as those rarely have explicit sexual content. "Japanese porn game" is more likely to refer to nukige, which is probably the primary exposure a casual browser has to the genre. Remember that definitions are just modes for communication. It's more important to get the concept of what you're referring to across--that there are many different types of anime-style text-based games out there--rather than harp on terminology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronopolis Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Can't you say: "Yes, their eroge, but they're mostly story anyways." A name is whatever people use to refer to something, unless you have a very good friend or someone with a flexible mindset, it might not be productive trying to redefine the term for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Can I just like my 2D porn without turning it into a political debate? advocatezz, Loco15, Zenophilious and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlessn1ght Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Can I just like my 2D porn without turning it into a political debate? You can . Just not in Fuwa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcosis Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 You can . Just not in Fuwa. #OPPRESSION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlessn1ght Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 #OPPRESSION Poor Nosebleed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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