Localization of VNs

[solidbatman]

Steve: by now i feel that i dont blame the eroge companies so much as I blame the western regulatory system and their vile and coercive hatred towards other ppl's expression. the fact that freedom of expression is Weaker in the west than it is in Japan to me, speaks volumes. free speech is supposed to be held as the crowning jewel of liberty in countries like the US. Yet over there and over here, the public cannot wait to dismantle your use of your pen and your ink. and all it takes is 50% + 1 persons.

You are a bit mistaken here, and I'm fairly certain I'm about to get chewed out for this. Here in the US, we do have freedom of speech, and anything can be said/portrayed as long as it isn't hate speech. So this company is well within their rights to release this game with all the sex scenes they want in there. The problem is, aside from the small niche audience, no one will buy them. The majority of the western audience looks down on these games as mere sex games that just serve as an excuse to well drawn hentai. And to be perfectly honest, I see many of these visual novels as just that. Steve posted all these tags of sexual positions, the debate here is over sex scenes, not the story. It's clear to me that sex is the focal point of novels like this.

In my opinion, this is a sex game. I haven't played it, but looking over it like the casual fan that I am, that is the impression that I get.

As an American, I can safely say that 99% of people here who look at it will feel the same way. Only the hardcore VN fans are going to say it isn't. And they may be right. It could very well not be an excuse to have paid hentai. But, already, the western audience could care less, because what we see is naked "underage" anime girls being sexualized, and that goes against our culture. Its not Americans saying "Fuck freedom of speech!" It's the culture. We look down on that sort of thing. It's taste. We don't like that. So we don't support it or buy it.

What I see from making this game all ages, and going through ESRB, is an attempt by Japan, to actually reach out and appeal to a wider audience. Are they marketing correctly? Not really. Did they pick a good game to increase the appeal of VNs? Again, not really. Will it work out? I highly doubt it. But I'm happy that someone out there seems to understand the cultural differences and is at least making an attempt to appeal to that culture.

So enough crying about the lack of freedom of speech and self-victimization. It's the culture, and general morality of a nation you disagree with. The VN industry is, and always will be, a very niche thing in the west. So this attempt is still futile.

And on a side note, I really fail to see underage, anime girls having sex as a form of expression; it's more like a fetish.

Just needed to get that off my chest, it really pissed me off.

[sanahtlig]

@Aaeru: You're awfully well versed in American domestic events (and constitutional law) for an Australian.

I should point out however that 2/3 of those links are for laws that haven't even been passed (at the time the article was written). If you're going to link to laws to prove a point, at least make those links to actual laws that are in effect. Also, another accepted limitation to free speech is speech which involves minors (which is the justification for restricting sales of games to minors using a rating scheme).

[zoom909]

In my opinion, this is a sex game. I haven't played it, but looking over it like the casual fan that I am, that is the impression that I get.

As an American, I can safely say that 99% of people here who look at it will feel the same way. Only the hardcore VN fans are going to say it isn't. And they may be right. It could very well not be an excuse to have paid hentai. But, already, the western audience could care less, because what we see is naked "underage" anime girls being sexualized, and that goes against our culture. Its not Americans saying "Fuck freedom of speech!" It's the culture. We look down on that sort of thing. It's taste. We don't like that. So we don't support it or buy it.

Then, what % Americans support or buy pornographic games if it's real girls that are the subject, and not anime girls? (I'm trying to determine if the issue is just with anime girls, or with porn in games in general...to me, the latter would make more sense)

[sanahtlig]

*sanahtlig activates Ougi: Flurry of Disagreements*

So this company is well within their rights to release this game with all the sex scenes they want in there.

This game maybe. Eien no Aselia 18+ version? Maybe not. At least, JAST USA didn't think so.

It's clear to me that sex is the focal point of novels like this.

In part, I like VNs precisely because of the cultural differences in attitude towards sex. VNs offer something I can't get anywhere else. To gut that element is to remove that which makes VNs special to me.

In my opinion, this is a sex game. I haven't played it, but looking over it like the casual fan that I am, that is the impression that I get.

I find it highly unlikely that Pulltop would make a sex-focused game. Steve is just hand waving.

But, already, the western audience could care less, because what we see is naked "underage" anime girls being sexualized, and that goes against our culture. Its not Americans saying "Fuck freedom of speech!" It's the culture. We look down on that sort of thing. It's taste. We don't like that. So we don't support it or buy it.

This is an aspect of American culture I find absolutely disgusting--our unthinking condemnation of that which doesn't fit our ideal of how the world should be, our need to proscribe our values onto everyone and everything around us. It's fiction. Get over it. If one doesn't like it, don't buy it, but don't go badgering others because fictional women are objectified or the characters aren't racially diverse or OMG THERE'S A LOLI! THAT'S SICK PEDOPHILE BAIT!

A game is a game, reality is reality. Those that try to link them together are the ones that can't tell the difference.

What I see from making this game all ages, and going through ESRB, is an attempt by Japan, to actually reach out and appeal to a wider audience. Are they marketing correctly? Not really. Did they pick a good game to increase the appeal of VNs? Again, not really. Will it work out? I highly doubt it. But I'm happy that someone out there seems to understand the cultural differences and is at least making an attempt to appeal to that culture.

They don't understand their market. Like many (most?) VNs, this is a moege that is fundamentally about romancing a cute anime girl. With that concept, you've already lost any chance to appeal to a mainstream audience. Hirameki was a devoted champion of all-ages VNs that even got the games into mainstream outlets. Guess where they are now? And MoeNovel thinks they can do better? Waltzing into a niche and ignoring the wishes of your fanbase--and the warnings of veterans in the industry--is the epitome of arrogance.

So enough crying about the lack of freedom of speech and self-victimization. It's the culture, and general morality of a nation you disagree with.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

And on a side note, I really fail to see underage, anime girls having sex as a form of expression; it's more like a fetish.

I would say the same of live-action pornography. But that's curiously mainstream--although if you asked anyone to their face, they'd loudly decry the same porn they fap to when no one's looking. It's hypocrisy.

[Guest]

You are a bit mistaken here, and I'm fairly certain I'm about to get chewed out for this. Here in the US, we do have freedom of speech, and anything can be said/portrayed as long as it isn't hate speech. So this company is well within their rights to release this game with all the sex scenes they want in there. The problem is, aside from the small niche audience, no one will buy them. The majority of the western audience looks down on these games as mere sex games that just serve as an excuse to well drawn hentai. And to be perfectly honest, I see many of these visual novels as just that. Steve posted all these tags of sexual positions, the debate here is over sex scenes, not the story. It's clear to me that sex is the focal point of novels like this.

In my opinion, this is a sex game. I haven't played it, but looking over it like the casual fan that I am, that is the impression that I get.

As an American, I can safely say that 99% of people here who look at it will feel the same way. Only the hardcore VN fans are going to say it isn't. And they may be right. It could very well not be an excuse to have paid hentai. But, already, the western audience could care less, because what we see is naked "underage" anime girls being sexualized, and that goes against our culture. Its not Americans saying "Fuck freedom of speech!" It's the culture. We look down on that sort of thing. It's taste. We don't like that. So we don't support it or buy it.

What I see from making this game all ages, and going through ESRB, is an attempt by Japan, to actually reach out and appeal to a wider audience. Are they marketing correctly? Not really. Did they pick a good game to increase the appeal of VNs? Again, not really. Will it work out? I highly doubt it. But I'm happy that someone out there seems to understand the cultural differences and is at least making an attempt to appeal to that culture.

So enough crying about the lack of freedom of speech and self-victimization. It's the culture, and general morality of a nation you disagree with. The VN industry is, and always will be, a very niche thing in the west. So this attempt is still futile.

And on a side note, I really fail to see underage, anime girls having sex as a form of expression; it's more like a fetish.

Just needed to get that off my chest, it really pissed me off.

Well I'm sorry it angered you, I really didnt mean for it to be offensive. because my understanding of the public (and over here in Australia as well) is that people believe that some expressions need to be policed. That is not an uncommon view. And the current laws reflect that. And that is a very different thing to 'we don't support it or buy it'. It's saying, you can't put down on paper what is happening in your head for others to see. There is a fine line between disgust but tolerance, vs disgust therefore prohibition.

For example, these countries have already given in:

Currently, countries that have made it illegal to possess (or create/distribute) sexual images of fictional characters who are described as or appear to be under eighteen years old include Canada, South Africa, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and the Philippines.[7][8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors

In parts of my country, it is already illegal.

The driving intent of my comment, is to show how dangerous a slippery slope it is that we are facing, that today you can draw your h-manga and distribute it, yet tomorrow you can go to jail for it.

And it all breaks down to what the public thinks is okay, and what is not. It is the duty of the citizen to safeguard their liberties against any government or any interests, no matter how positive or attractive they seem to appear, no matter how popular, no matter whether it it was 'majority-decided'. And it is not an insult. It is just a word of warning to show people what can happen if they are not vigilant.

Heck, these days the authorities dont even care what u think. they just do it anyway http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/12/19/superintendent-drawings-of-weapons-led-to-new-jersey-students-arrest/

[Zakamutt]

In a weak defense of sweden, the pictures have to be "realistic" - and thus triggering child rape or whatever the reasoning is - to be illegal according to a supreme court case (that manga guy. He was found innocent after having been convicted two times prior iirc.).

[Wahfuu]

And on a side note, I really fail to see underage, anime girls having sex as a form of expression; it's more like a fetish.

I've been sitting here really struggling on how to respond to this sentence. I don't really want to bother tackiling the whole post, but this is seriously such an ignorant and over generalization of an entire theme prevelent in visual novels that it's honestly left me totally stunned.

[Down]

I mostly agree with what batman said.

To me it's rather clear that this is an attempt to open the VN market to people whose culture never ever got them used to having 18+ sex-included games, and maybe demystify a bit what visual novels are.

Sure, it's a really poor attempt to do so, because they do it pretty much all wrong, but I think it is.

And:

This is an aspect of American culture I find absolutely disgusting--our unthinking condemnation of that which doesn't fit our ideal of how the world should be, our need to proscribe our values onto everyone and everything around us. It's fiction. Get over it. If one doesn't like it, don't buy it, but don't go badgering others because fictional women are objectified or the characters aren't racially diverse or OMG THERE'S A LOLI! THAT'S SICK PEDOPHILE BAIT!

A game is a game, reality is reality. Those that try to link them together are the ones that can't tell the difference.

I agree with what you say. I totally agree. But ranting over it in a forum where everyone is rather open-minded and share your opinion won't change anything.

This is a fact, it's cultural. You can't change it with a snap of fingers.

Thus you have to either ignore it and stay with an ultra-niche thing or try to do with it.

Again, I agree that depriving people of their right to have their own fetishes and do whatever they want with their fictional games is not what should be done.

But

1) You can't do much about it if you're gonna attack that head-first.

2) I'm honestly not sure this is the issue here. As far as I remember Saya no Uta was localized, right? And yet this game definitely depicts underage sex and rape.

I think this an attempt to tackle the issue of the acceptation of VNs in another way than just saying "yeah it's a porn dating sim and sometimes there are underage girls, deal with it and enjoy the plot", because that's not the way you make people accept it.

[sanahtlig]

I'm actually a bit puzzled why you moved the discussion over here, as what I have to say is still linked to the game in question, but...

The question here isn't whether all-ages VNs are viable as a market. It's whether MoeNovel's implementation is viable. And it's not. It's a terrible business decision that's going to blow up in their face, and possibly cause them to give up on the market. The current VN market is built around eroge, partly because that's the fandom that JAST and Mangagamer have built up through their releases. To enter into that market with an eroge that's been stripped of ero content and expect it to sell, without any special attempt at marketing to the wider audience they're supposedly targeting, is utter idiocy. I'm not alone in thinking this; just about *everyone* thinks the same, even the people that want to see more all-ages VNs localized.

Adding fuel to the fire is that "If my Heart had Wings" doesn't even appear to be your stereotypical story VN with 1 or 2 H-scenes per heroine. Apparently MOST of the CGs are HCGs (again, relying on a 3rd party assessment). Removing the H-scenes is removing a significant chunk of artwork (not to mention potential effects on the story). That's awful, especially considering how wonderful the game's artwork is.

[Wahfuu]

I'll make my stance on this clear.

Sex. Is. Art.

Artwork is something that cannot be reasonably defined. Asking yourself 'what is art' is like asking yourself what the meaning of life is. It's never one answer, never one description. It doesn't inheretly exsist. How the beholder of said artwork looks at it and what they themselves take from it is entirely up to them, to be sure, but you cannot place a one-size-fits-all description on what makes artwork. You cannot use an objective description on an entirely subjective object. It doesn't work that way. Some artwork makes you sad. Some inspires you. Some makes you suicidal and some can make you have an erection. Yes, you read that last one correctly.

Everyone always seperates the story and the H scenes when it comes to visual novels as though they are two seperate entities. Are we that immature when it comes to genitals touching? Sure, a lot of sex is simply there for an 18+ logo and the possibility of more sales, but it's still part of the package within the work, no matter what someone says. Of course you could make the argument that a lot of it is 'bad art', and that's entirely fair, but to say that it's simple pornography and has to be looked at as such is missing the entire point of what makes artwork so subjective in the first place.

In this situation, a rather large focus is the romance with one of the girls. And yes, to indeed do that terrible, terrible shameful thing that is called sex. If we go beyond the obvious marketing ignorance and alienation of the current visual novel market, it's still bad to take the H-Content away from it. It's just the original version with bits and pieces hacked and butchered off while still carrying the entirety of the visual novel niche along with it. When such a huge draw of these types of visual novels is the romance of the girls and a huge portion of the CG's are indeed sexual, it's nothing but a downgrade from the original.

You can't come into my house, kick my cute daughter in the ribs and tell me that more people will like my daughter if she has broken ribs. That is freaking bonkers.

[Down]

I'm actually a bit puzzled why you moved the discussion over here, as what I have to say is still linked to the game in question, but...

It was more because the discussion was taking the usual freedom of speech/reception of VNs and localizations in the west turn of debate; which made the thread have two simultaneous topics.

[solidbatman]

I never claimed that these VNs should be censored, or that this is a good move. You can scream and yell all you want that sex is art etc. But the fact is, that won't convince me, nor the vast majority of the west since it is purely a cultural difference. So releasing more VNs with strong sexual content is not the way to increase the appeal. For example, which would sell more:

Steins;Gate with heavy marketing tying it to the popular anime series

or

Rumbling Hearts (Kimi ga Nozomu Eien) with heavy marketing tying it to the anime series.

It's obvious Steins;Gate would sell and make a better gateway into VNs than Rumbling Hearts. Once people are acclimated, they are more likely to play a VN with hentai in it. I never would've really been okay with H scenes in VNs had I not played Ever 17 or Clannad. Now I see them as a distraction/bait for more sales because I know that a VN can tell an incredible story.

So to make VNs more popular in the west, emphasize the classics and market the hell out of them. People will see what a VN can do, and be more likely to branch out and play through a VN with H content.

I see the sex as useless in many cases, most of you don't. Thats fine, and I respect it. But I'm looking at this from a casual western gamer's perspective and I don't see pushing H content as the way to make them more popular.

[sanahtlig]

You can't come into my house, kick my [cute daughter] in the ribs and tell me that more people will like my [daughter] if [she] has broken ribs. That is freaking bonkers.

I fixed that metaphor for you. Want to reconsider?

[Wahfuu]

I never claimed that these VNs should be censored, or that this is a good move. You can scream and yell all you want that sex is art etc. But the fact is, that won't convince me, nor the vast majority of the west since it is purely a cultural difference. So releasing more VNs with strong sexual content is not the way to increase the appeal. For example, which would sell more:

I'm not trying to convince anybody. It's not a debate. It IS art. Denying it denies the entire meaning of what art tries to represent.

Steins;Gate with heavy marketing tying it to the popular anime series

or

Rumbling Hearts (Kimi ga Nozomu Eien) with heavy marketing tying it to the anime series.

It's obvious Steins;Gate would sell and make a better gateway into VNs than Rumbling Hearts. Once people are acclimated, they are more likely to play a VN with hentai in it. I never would've really been okay with H scenes in VNs had I not played Ever 17 or Clannad. Now I see them as a distraction/bait for more sales because I know that a VN can tell an incredible story.

So to make VNs more popular in the west, emphasize the classics and market the hell out of them. People will see what a VN can do, and be more likely to branch out and play through a VN with H content.

I see the sex as useless in many cases, most of you don't. Thats fine, and I respect it. But I'm looking at this from a casual western gamer's perspective and I don't see pushing H content as the way to make them more popular.

Nobody is pushing H content. The removal of H content while keeping every other niche stigma and anime stereotype is nothing but a massacre of the original game and selling a downgrade. It alienates the current breed of fans and gains very little in the process of it. This, in no way, is a good idea. You do not need to have sex in a visual novel to sexualize the characters, which this VN will still do regardless of having H or not.

I fixed that metaphor for you. Want to reconsider?

Fixed because yours was better.

[solidbatman]

I'm not trying to convince anybody. It's not a debate. It IS art. Denying it denies the entire meaning of what art tries to represent.

Noody is pushing H content. The removal of H content while keeping every other niche stigma and anime stereotype is nothing but a massacre of the original game and selling a downgrade. It alienates the current breed of fans and gains very little in the process of it. This, in no way, is a good idea. You do not need to have sex in a visual novel to sexualize the characters, which this VN will still do regardless of having H or not.

Regardless of what you believe it to be, I promise you, the majority of westerners do not see it that way and will shut down any attempt you have to convince them otherwise that sex is an art. Art is opinion based.

I agree that removal of any content is not the answer to making VNs more accepted. I believe firmly, that the choices of what gets localized need to be better. So, this is a poor choice for a localization effort to expand the audience (which people here seem to not really care about as long as they have their precious H content). VNs can carve out a larger user base if they can just prove on a consistent basis, that its not all about the sex. Sadly that won't happen because the majority of VNs involve sex. It's the culture of that industry, and it's worked for them so far. For us Western fans wanting more, it hasn't worked out. The sexualization of characters will always exist as it has in anime and manga. Anime and Manga sell though because shows and manga have proven they can attach an incredible story to the sexual situations. VNs can too, but they havent yet because the fans won't allow them to break the stereotype in the West.

Steve and I have been discussing this on his TS server too. He pointed out a double standard in that a show like Game of Thrones has an awesome story and tons of sex, yet is still very popular, yet hentai is frowned upon regardless of the story. He is absolutely right. It is a huge double standard and its hypocrisy. Westerners are desensitized to the GoT style though. Westerners are not desensitized to H content. The best way to get them to accept H content, is to first ease people into the genre of VNs. I can say it worked a few times on friends of mine. For example, I told a friend I was playing a VN. His response was "You play those sex games?" I responded, "You trust me right? Go download Ever 17 and read it." After much more pestering he finally did, and apologized for assuming they were all sex games. So if a big name like Steins;Gate or Clannad were to get localized, it would help the industry here in the west more than likely. We don't pretend like the sex isnt there (read that MoeNovel), instead we choose entry VNs without sex in it, to introduce people to the wonderful world of VNs.

[Kendjin]

I've not a massive post to write, but I wanted to say.. I think its only really the US that applies in your "West". I don't find that to be the case in Europe and UK, despite it being in the "West"

[sanahtlig]

The UK, the land of the loli ban, would embrace moe storytelling and erotic scenes involving moefied high schoolers with no resistance? Do tell. From what I can tell, the US and UK are very similarly culturally in their attitudes towards sex. This is less true in mainland Europe, where moe eroge would probably find less resistance, but still considerably more than they currently face in Japan.

[Wahfuu]

Regardless of what you believe it to be, I promise you, the majority of westerners do not see it that way and will shut down any attempt you have to convince them otherwise that sex is an art. Art is opinion based.

I agree that removal of any content is not the answer to making VNs more accepted. I believe firmly, that the choices of what gets localized need to be better. So, this is a poor choice for a localization effort to expand the audience (which people here seem to not really care about as long as they have their precious H content). VNs can carve out a larger user base if they can just prove on a consistent basis, that its not all about the sex. Sadly that won't happen because the majority of VNs involve sex. It's the culture of that industry, and it's worked for them so far. For us Western fans wanting more, it hasn't worked out. The sexualization of characters will always exist as it has in anime and manga. Anime and Manga sell though because shows and manga have proven they can attach an incredible story to the sexual situations. VNs can too, but they havent yet because the fans won't allow them to break the stereotype in the West.

Steve and I have been discussing this on his TS server too. He pointed out a double standard in that a show like Game of Thrones has an awesome story and tons of sex, yet is still very popular, yet hentai is frowned upon regardless of the story. He is absolutely right. It is a huge double standard and its hypocrisy. Westerners are desensitized to the GoT style though. Westerners are not desensitized to H content. The best way to get them to accept H content, is to first ease people into the genre of VNs. I can say it worked a few times on friends of mine. For example, I told a friend I was playing a VN. His response was "You play those sex games?" I responded, "You trust me right? Go download Ever 17 and read it." After much more pestering he finally did, and apologized for assuming they were all sex games. So if a big name like Steins;Gate or Clannad were to get localized, it would help the industry here in the west more than likely. We don't pretend like the sex isnt there (read that MoeNovel), instead we choose entry VNs without sex in it, to introduce people to the wonderful world of VNs.

I agree that the majority of westerners would disagree with sex being art, but most westerners are not informed on the philosophical side of artwork. High society art often includes lewd situations. It's something that is prevelent from the dawn of history. People can think what they want but it does not discredit the fact that it's still artwork no matter how dirty or taboo society wants to make it. The fact still stands strong in the face of ignorance.

Sex isn't really a bad thing. It doesn't have to be, anyways, it's simply our culture that makes it seem that way. Anyways, regardless of the artwork debate, I agree that title localization is a bit of a problem. I went over this awhile back about MangaGamers onslaught of nukige was fueling the stereotype that no visual novel nor visual novel reader can run away from. It's created quite a conflict. And of course the rather aggressive and xenophobic attitude as showcased by the Romanesque translation problem does nothing to help things. Anyways, we would need a hell of alot of titles, strong ones, to erase the 'VN's are sex-games' stereotype.

This has gotten a bit off-topic though. I simply think that this whole thing is bad. MoeNovel is mutilating a visual novel and selling the corpse from an artwork perspective. From a marketing perspective, they are alienating a huge chunk of the current visual novel audience while hoping to get an audience that still has the stereotype burried in it's mind and the setting/synopsis/inheret sexualization of this VN will not make that disappear at all. So, I cannot see the logic behind it.

[Down]

I've not a massive post to write, but I wanted to say.. I think its only really the US that applies in your "West". I don't find that to be the case in Europe and UK, despite it being in the "West"

It's true, but only because the 'VNs = weird sex games' cliche only exists in the US.

In France, as far as I know, if you show up at a random anime con and ask someone what they think of VNs, your most likely answer is "the hell is that?". People either are introduced to VNs in 'correct' way, because we never had scandal like rapelay much mediatised and not much otaku cliche, or they don't know a thing about it, even in anime/manga/geek communities.

That's also because we don't have localization companies, and the very few VNs that were tentatively commercialized (only on conventions through small fan TL associations though) here are Higurashi and Narcissu 1&2 (again, as far as I know). The word spreads only through friend community from someone who played stuff like Type-Moon/07th Expansion/Katawa Shoujo/Infinity/Kagaku Adventures/Nitroplus stuff to someone who never ever heard about VNs.

Thus France is actually (I think) a good example of how VN could spread in a positive manner. Although it does so reaaaaaally slowly. Then again, I'm not sure but I guess we're a bit less puritan than americans or british people.

[Kendjin]

I think I might have forgotten about the UK being really bad for Loli :s

I retract my statement.

[sanahtlig]

VDZ posted a fantastic comment by the translators of Recettear that discusses why ero and all-ages games (from a publisher's perspective) don't mix in the West. It paints the MoeNovel matter in a whole new light.

http://www.formspring.me/SpaceDrakeCF/q/277898826382050043

[Steve]

well the matter stays basically the same, they should have picked different game.

and it might be true that most people on steam don't want it, even if it is all ages with no gameplay - they will say it is not a game.

That's why VNs could use different distribution platform in the future. Sure it sounds hard now, but it could work eventually.

And I hope people will get little more clever and see that steam having monopoly over digital distribution is a really bad thing, there are idiots who don't buy a game because it is not on steam. When steam becomes the only platform and they start fucking people (they already do that with Europeans and their $=€), they will cry too.

Don't take me wrong, I'm no anti-steam person, I use it and I like the service it offers. But I have lots of problems with it (starting from not being able to run singleplayer games because "this game is not currently available" etc [those problems were mostly fixed but still, I don't want to deal with the again]) so where I can avoid steam (which really is a big fat DRM with friendlist), I do so.

So if there is new platform for digital downloads of VNs (like getchu in japan), it could work very well and nobody needs to care about people complaining about H, as those people would not go there. True, you don't get there so many people as on steam, but those people are not interested in it anyway.

In future I hope to see more digital platforms rise, otherwise even gamers (of normal aaa games) might be pretty screwed. We already see the problems with the preorder exclusives for steam and for retail shops and such - that power is not good.

[kazameltis]

Well if they want to localize games that are safe for all and don't show H-scenes. They should just consider localizing Otome games. I mean the game is mostly directed for girls, but that doesn't mean boy's can't play.

Well when it comes to games and television gender just really doesn't matter. Even girls can play Call of Duty and boys can watch My Little Pony. It's all just a matter of personal preference. I truly find it silly that they would try to remove H-scenes or edit them, considering that all the porn in America is completely uncensored. The VN market is so hard to understand, even considering cutting out sex scenes just to make it safe for all ages. They should just localize VNs that have no sex, that would then be considered more appropriate.

And let's also remember that when you buy an 18+ game, it's meant to be for 18+. So that means it's a matter of personal responsibility that a person plays it at his/her own discretion. The localization company must understand who they are selling the game to. If it's 18+ it truly means that it's meant for adults that understand about sex. I don't get why they have to butcher VNs for the children if it isn't meant for children. :mellow:/>

[sanahtlig]

Because there's adults who won't play games with porn in them. And there's distributors that won't sell games without porn in them, if the company that localized them also localizes games with porn in them. Read that article I linked. It's eye-opening.

[kazameltis]

I read it and it still brings me back to the point. Porn is a hard issue to tackle that much I understand. But if they have to fix a game that isn't broken, that would compromise the quality and integrity of the game.

If they choose to localize pornographic games that is the companies decision. But if they choose to localize an original all ages game that is also their decision. Some people don't like porn, but there are also others that do. If the company wants to prove a point that it doesn't localize a 18+ game then don't. There are plenty of games that can be safe for all ages and they should just tap in on that market.