Chronopolis
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Posts posted by Chronopolis
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Wow... congrats! I've been playing that map quite recently (and very often too), but I can't even pass it let alone S it. Looks like you just did so as if it were nothing. xD
Interestingly enough, the Another for Yozora ni Saita Hana is the exact map I'm trying to FC right now. I guess I'll just keep at it until I get a good score.
Also, I didn't know you play Osu before...
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1984pp --> 2004 pp!!!!
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Mmm... I'm going to be blunt. I'm both liking and hating Four Rhythm. I like the heroines, hate the protag, and hate that the focus is a sport (I loathe sports as a focus). Keep that in mind when you read the comments I'll write once I'm done.
Oh and none of the heroines really interest me as a potential romantic focus, which is also a downer... if Misaki weren't so sulky I might have liked her. On the other hand, the atmosphere, pacing, and writing quality are all way up there, so there is a lot to recommend to it so far, despite it pressing a lot of my bad buttons.
I haven't really played a sports vn (besides some of Walkure), but it occured to me: the drama, ups and downs, and motivations in a sports VN might be more repeatable to real life. Because, there are people who devote themselves (to differing degrees) to their sport, and face the ups and downs as well as the sensation of practice and competition. Which is quite opposite of VN's who literally craft their own theme, and have the drama, plot, and atmosphere be significantly determined by that.
Would that be one of the reasons why you hate sports VN's? Or is it just because said "ups and downs" get really stale after a while.
In any case, Aokana has piqued my interest because:
1) some of the heroines seem optimistic yet resilient (strong), (though I just got that from the art style, not from the profiles)
2) Flight is an interesting fantasy, the fact that exists without the magic fantasy setting, or evolved-civilization sci-fi setting makes it feel more like the funnest dream ever come true.
3) Lots of special effects and the art rocks.
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I think I get the reasoning for and agree with the TL -> Editor -> TLC structure.
Reasonably competent TL'er --> raw TL
raw TL --> Editor -->script which looks like it was written from the perspective of English
natified English script--> TLC who scans through the Japanese and English, easily recognizing segments which go "wait a minute, that doesn't mean that", or "this gives a different impression" and correcting them. Since they are working with a piece of meant-to-be-in-English writing, they can also improve the flow by editing on a larger scale than line by line.
All these things that a TLC does absolutely require high skill level (and better editing skills than editor if they are doing flow changes), but are not as nearly as taxing per line as raw tl'ing. This way, the TLC might be able to cover the entire VN by themself and make both the accuracy and editing very good, relatively speaking.
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I was going to type something, but realized I had written something (when I had less experience, but which I still think holds true) before.
There are two parts to TL:
The first step is understanding.
You need to understand:
-what is being said
-who/what is being addressed/referenced (because it’s Japanese and often this is tricky)
-the tone of the speaker (whether they are inquisitive, happy, in agreement, or expressing contempt).
As one rule of thumb: Don’t translate something when you can’t, or don’t have the knowledge to, do the above 3 points with relative ease. Also note that all these points are certaintly practiced by reading. The last two in particular are mostly picked up through reading experience (the first one requiring grammar, vocab, and use of dictionary (preferably J-J)).
The second part of TL’ing is constructing sentences in English.
Uh, All I can say here is that...if you don't understand the meaning, systematically and grammatically transforming the japanese into english will never really cut it. It's not a system of equations, you can't convert it into a different form you "understand".
Anyways Clephas has much more in the way of practical things you'd want to follow. I just am beating the dead horse about a decent mindset and the proper skill req.
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Haha, you suck
. But I really enjoyed your post. Merry Christmas.Come to think of it, Fuwanovel is really tolerant of different people. What would get you called out or called on other communities just ends with a closed thread, deleted post, and/or a "moving right along~".
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Hey, someone else who likes writing (I don't have much experience though)! I'll take a look later tonight.
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Tbh, KnK's a game I've been wanting to try out for a while.
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I'm pretty neutral about them. I mean, it all boils down to the content, the format doesn't really affect my decision on whether one VN is better than another. And besides, some KNs chose this format and lack choices because well, they don't need them. Look at Narcissu, Planetarian and True Remembrance, just to name a few.
Yup this me too.
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So, first you complete this learning period where you assimilate the basic grammar and some essential vocabulary, and read example dialogs and such with the textbook holding your hand. After that, you are ready to dive into reading for real. Perhaps "dive" is the wrong word here, because it's a more gradual process than that. Here is where the internalization happens that Clephas mentions. As you read, your mind will absorb that subtle language information that isn't part of the textbook rules. It is an important step but it happens automagically. The key to making this happen is to read some every day. Note that reading Japanese for an hour out of a day, and watching a couple of hours of anime, in a day otherwise spent using English can hardly be called "immersion." It is just called "practice." But it will be enough--that is, as long as you didn't skimp on grammar learning and as long as you are satisfied with just reading and not speaking.
This, total immersion is not required...I never did it. What's needed is hundreds of hours of practice, and the easiest way to do that for most people is making it a close to everyday thing.
Though...without exposure to RL conversation japanese (J-drama's are a lot closer than anime/VN's) and much speaking practice, I ended up both lacking knowledge of conversational phrases and skill generating sentences, replying, and holding a conversation, despite having strong grammar sense and a decent vocabulary from reading. After you hit intermediate level, it starts to depends what material you have exposure to and what you spend time practicing (reading, writing, speaking, listening).
Most katakana terms are essentially the same as their originals, but ones like マンション (which is basically a certain type of rental apartment) really don't mean the same as their original term. About seventy percent of everyone who tries to learn Japanese never fix their understanding of terms like these, so pay attention to things that you think are used oddly, so you can understand how your initial understanding could be wrong.
This. That in itself is not a big problem, but it's a symptom of a more serious one (see below).
This is the most important step of learning Japanese. If you are having to logically consider what particles turn a sentence into and transform Japanese into English to understand it, you will never, ever be fluent.
To be more clear:
Parsing japanese in logical units of meaning and then trying to figure out the meaning from there is OK.
Turning the japanese into english before deciphering the meaning is what Clephas is talking about, and you should avoid that from day one. For example, when you think of 元気（genki), you should recall the places you've heard it used (元気ですか？ はい、元気です。 ； とても元気な子。） and tie the word's meaning to that, rather than turn it into english and then interpret that english.
The following is a bit more for early intermediate learners who have begun to read native material:
Attaching 脆い to english definitions like "brittle" are ok, though one thing about building connotations for the word: associate the word with the contexts you see it in, not the connotations of the english keywords you are using (ie. "brittle" or "fragile").
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Uhh, fabulous progress! If it's ok with you, could you livestream/video record one of your TL sessions? I'd be curious to see how it looks/what pace you go at.
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There's no chance I would be able to join in, but man that art style totally agrees with me.
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Can't forget:
Oh man, the shot with Henrietta firing at 0:50 is so vivid. God bless that studio.
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I liked Ga-rei Zero and Sola (the OST for that anime is really good) enough to watch the OP multiple times, but my favourite out of the ones here has to be Spice and Wolf. Most of it comes from the song, though 0:33 is an AWESOME touch.
SAO 1's quite nice, though honestly I prefer it with lyrics overlay (it looks more lively)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUSwH8gsx4I
I love the horizon backdrops at 1:05, the vocals are to my liking. The ED might be even better though.
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Frankly, after reading some articles on imabi I don't think it's a good idea for a total beginner to get into that right away. Half the thing uses kanjis which is ridiculous for a beginner (even armed with Rikaichan it's a pain, imagine if the dude doesn't know about Rikaichan yet he'll straight out close the page), and it goes into so much detail in such an obscure way (by which I mean, if you don't already know some japanese it doesn't make sense) you'd drown after 3 lessons.
Learning from Tae Kim than switching to Imabi to get a further understanding seems better imo.
Yea, I agree. It's pretty unsuitable, the level of commentary and minor stuff he talks about. Even the group that shows this as a recommendation says to go to it after you've gotten through a few VN's.
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Could I get one of 13 or 14? Hiyo is down at the fact that the best season, fall, is over already.
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I wanted to post this in https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/7565-the-impact-of-h-scenes-on-visual-novels/?p=196323 but it's sort of off-topic there and I doubt it will get any attention there, which is a shame because I think it's a very central topic to VN's and worth talking about. Well, without further ado:
Idealization of Heriones
Idealization in heriones involves:
-a lack of "negative: "traits that might turn off the viewer (active conflict with or creating frustration for the protagonist (and by extension, the reader). Most heroines ultimately wish the best for everyone, a viewpoint which is usually the developer making the heroine "good", as opposed to any significance story/character-wise.
-a range of combinations of qualities (innocence, sexyness, stoicness) and archtypes (ojyou-sama, osanajimi, imouto, onee-san, hyper-competent tenkousei) which may strike the readers fancy.
You also have the hyper-moe/otaku/self-aware trend of games, but that's just the preference of the user-base changing over time. Old games like Kizuato still prominently feature this idealization.
I think it's just a matter of what else the game has to say. I do like some of these traits and archtypes, but another part of me demands the VN bring something else original/significant/something I can appreciate (like a unique atmosphere), else I'll eventually tire of it. If you play VN's you probably like to some extent, and the absence of it (or maybe you just play VN's for the long slice of life pacing and ability/tendency to depict every step of the way you can't find anywhere else, who knows.) is discomforting, otherwise you'd be reading books for your plot/intellectual/suspense/literary fix.
There are examples of games in which the direct appeal (to the reader) of the heriones plays a very minor role compared to other elements. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish what the author put in to make the character likeable and what they put in to make the characters stand out or themselves, or the story the story. Generally, if you like a trait and think a lot of other people would and it isn't relevant to the plot (counter-example: Tsubaki from G-senjyou), odds are it was done to make the character likeable. If you find the character to be *interesting*, then perhaps it's actual characterization.
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Hmm, the actual topic is interesting so I'll just plow on ahead.
Why do nukiges exist?
-fappers may prefer the text + voice + sprite/cg interface of visual novels as it is more immersive.
-the long play time gives a chance for the fapper to grow attached the the characters, resulting in a different experience.
-a few people play nukige (mostly?) for entertainment value, but that's beyond the point
Why do people (still) play all-ages nakige/charage-VN's?
-they enjoy becoming attached to and spending time with the characters
Why developers explicitly include H-scenes in non-nukige games?
-some of the people who enjoy becoming attached to the characters now would like H-scenes with their herione. I mean doujinshi (derivative) porn is practically the same concept.
-for people who bought the story and get bored of it and are still interested in random porn, they are included anyways.
What if most VN's didn't have H-scenes?
We'd have a lot more resources to devote to CG's. Imo, that wouldn't improve VN's THAT much, unless artistic directing improved as well. Well, it would certainly allow for scenarios and settings which are more CG-demanding. That's actually pretty important and a shame.
In terms of the western market, it would definitely increase the marketability of these games. But many of the people interested in VN's still do so because they enjoy becoming attached the heriones, and as the TL'd hentai/doujinshi industry and manga gamer's finances show, the western fandom is no less horny than our Japanese counterparts.
It's hard to speak generally, but if a VN wanted to use an H-scene for development purposes, there would be no need to include them on the other herione routes. Now, since a quota is demanded, I suppose writers will incoporate them as best as they can, to the point where the fact that the two characters have sex isn't as disruptive to the story as the fact that the VN explicitly shows the scene, for the purpose of titillation. Honestly, for this, the skip button. If you are purely talking about immersion and not outrage at the existence of fan-service in this world, 8 seconds of skip isn't bad.
Now, for the topic I actually wanted to talk about: https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/7578-idealizationappeal-of-heriones-in-vns/
- Zenophilious, Kosakyun and nohman
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Edit2: To be honest, I don't like seeing this ancient debate getting revived at all. Tay already made a similar thread last year, and it was argued to death, so seeing this argument resurrected is rather unpleasant.
I agree. More interesting, I think, is the way and extent in which VN heriones are idealized.
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If you can read the summary of the story, it's clear that it's a nukige in disguise.
In other words, I'm looking forward to it. -_-
I liked the second line of your post, that caught me off guard. Yea, I see what you mean with the description.
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Why is narita so amazing
遠慮なし、謙虚なし、空気読みなし。 悠然、超然、いかにもマイペースで巨乳主義。
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This was just linked in skype, should be added.
"expanded and awesome version of tae kim"
In case it isn't known how awesome this is, more is covered on that website then you would learn majoring in Japanese in a good Asian Studies post-secondary institution. Quite a bit farther than N1 grammar, and provides wider coverage on a LOT of stuff that's not listed on JLPT but that'd you'd see and pick up from or be confused with in VN's or novels. It also provides plenty of comments on spoken usage and about culture. It teaches the conjugations and bases the same way they are classified in Japanese, which does admittedly make for a steeper learning curve (more than Taekim, which is more than Genki), but which basically puts it on the same level as the resources in Japanese, except it's all gathered together.
Basically, it doesn't hide any of the complexities of the language from you, so what you see is what you get (which is a lot, btw).
Hooray!
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Art+Text (+Music) (Visual Novel, strictly speaking about the medium. (the VN doesn't need music all the time, or even at all).
The reason why I think it has the most potential is A: it's not restricted to live-action or CGI because it's relies on still-pictures and B: the existence of art, text, and music gives crazy freedom. With just text, the area in which the reader is directly experiencing the medium are just the words and prose. As such it has somewhat higher immersive potential.
Gameplay is virtually ommited from this medium because as I say below, gameplay and story elements often have to comprise (the combination can create new unique products though)
Choices are a very interesting feature in that they allow multiple futures to be reflected. Also from a reading experience perspective, learning why a certain choice was "correct" or lead to a certain outcome is rewarding. There are . Not all stories need choices, and branches by no means need to be symmetrical. Whatever works best for presenting the story/world/characters/experience.
Text Not much to be said here, heck we use text to discuss works of all these mediums. The fact that you can define concepts using words and reuse them later on puts it far above music and text.
Games (purely focus on gameplay design and interaction). Includes things like the potential of MMorpg's, etc.
Art+Music combined (even ad hoc, ie. youtube songs that just have a picture with them). The number of combinations is vastly more than just art or music. If had to say, usually music is the energy/mood and art is the direction.
Anime (a bit bound by the cost of animation. I wish more quality scripts were designed to be made as an anime. I think what Japan has done is refine some of the visual, directing, and stylistic effects. Stuff like the monogatari series are a great splashy use of the medium.
Art
Real-life Action Unfortunately I know very little about what this medium is capable and good for. It definitely has things it just best which other mediums are not that well suited towards. Basically the presence of photographic humans in the story both are one of it's most utilizable aspects and a big restriction.
Games (as a storytelling medium ) (i think it's quite difficult to mix gameplay and story without losing out of one of the two...one often becomes supplementary to the other. That's fine, and in almost all cases that should be what games-with-story developers should be aiming for.))
Music (it feels a bit lacking by itself, like the emotion and impression you get from a song are limited to your imagination and previous exposure. Emotional response is like a mostly 1 dimensional sliding scale. I think if you learned about composition and could understand more
Clephas' VN of the month
in Visual Novel Talk
Posted