Chronopolis
-
Posts
838 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
4
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Events
Posts posted by Chronopolis
-
-
Wow, so many great replies! I appreciate all the advice. The funny thing is that I already memorized the kanji 当 as hit. But I didn't feel comfortable stretching the definition of words in a language I barely know. I suppose 当 has a similar connotation in Japanese that the word "pick" has in the English language. You can pick on somebody (like a bully picking on weaker kids), but you can also literally pick something (To pick to buy apples instead of pears). I guess I should read things with a more interpretive mind set rather than a rigid by the book mindset.
The impression I got from many people was that source material (VNs, games, anime, manga) in conjunction with grammar guides was all that was necessary. What else would you recommend? I mean personally I intend on adding new words into an Anki deck so I can memorize them efficiently.
I think most people outside of the VN community study textbooks (as well as speaking, writing, listening practice) for a long while until they start getting into substantial native material. If anything, the only thing that matters is continuing to study grammar (keep going until at least n2).
Honestly, many questions can be answered through a playing more. If you have a place to ask questions that is incredible helpful.
The reason why it's not productive to try and understand everything is that :
a) some topics are too complex to understand for one's level
B) you might not have to means to find the answer to your question (be a person to as who has seen that usage, or can't find it through google)
I suppose 当 has a similar connotation in Japanese that the word "pick" has in the English language.
当たる doesn't have a similiar connotation (if you are talking about "good and bad" connotations). It doesn't really have a connotation. I think what you mean is that it is used in a bunch of ways, some which may seem like a spin-off of the base meaning.
Personally, I don't try and think too hard an justify the alternate meanings against a base one. It's too many mental hoops.
2 tips:
Use Jparser to provide a hint at the core meaning. Try to remember the context to remember *how" a word is used.
For example, some one could say 当たった！ when their guess turned out to be correct. Remember that situation, the fact that 当たる can be used to refer to a guess or estimate being on the mark.
I mean there have been words which I've been like "I know I've seen the word used here here and here with this sort of tone, but I don't really know what it means." That's ok. Note it down and ask someone when you get a chance.
For this example, don't remember "当たる = to be called on by the teacher". Remember the situation you saw that meaning of 当たる used in.
There will be definitions where it's hard to tell what is doing what. Don't stress too much about words are unclear because of the english definition. Most Jparser definitions are helpful enough, for the ones that aren't you can ask about it, or just move on and wait until you can use a J-J dictionary or figure it out later.
well, the most important thing is still exercise. i always picture the scene when i read vn so i can still focus to the lines without losing the big picture. often i'm too focused interpreting one sentence but i forgot what kind of event is taking place.
Mm, this. Some lines can be solved if you are aware of what is happening (e.g. char A is mad at B because of this). Even if you don't, they provide context for you to gain a vague understanding of when the word is used, and with what tone.
-
Kajiri Kamui Kagura
Probably going to review some grammar and properly learn the classical japanese particles/conjugations before heading into this monster. Of course I still need to play Dies irae first...
-
I call them VN's most of the time.
Well, pressure or no pressure, it still takes like two of the three to get a VN done: crazy determination, insane-work ethic, a solid project manager.
-
Sort of finished Kami no ue no Mahoutsukai (took a bit over a month).
Non-spoiler thoughts, basically why I liked the game
Wow, it’s been a while since I’ve enjoyed a work this much.
This work is much a conceptual novel, which means that the supernatural component is gradually fleshed out, with rules, possibilities, ideas and effects changing and explored at each stage.
This story, because of it’s theme of books and stories playing out, it has little bits of meta here and there. As a conceptual story and slightly meta-work, Kami no ue could have ended up as a story hard to get personally attached.
That is, if not for how Kami no Ue centers much of itself around describing all the character’s different relationships with each other. Past, present, always evolving. The main cast has one of the best multi-way relationships I’ve ever seen, mainly because it’s so detailed and non-MC relationships are given equal weight. I mean, check out the character page on the official site. There’s a story introduction and thoughts for each character…for each character!
The three main heroines of this novel are all very remarkable and utterly steal the stage. The side characters Nagisa and Rio perform their parts. The two minor characters (Kanae and ??) I didn’t really like, but didn’t hurt the experience. Ruri himself ends up being around a side character if you ignore his importance as the lens of the novel. His perspective was essential to showing off the world of the magic books, and two of the three main heriones. He’s actually rather similiar to Nagisa, with the two’s and other parallels between characters being mentioned and used to great effect.
Overall, you can tell the author is quite intelligent. If you think about the things that are happening, the protagonist often acknowledges similiar things. The sub-stories are not ultra-cliche stories to ridicule, they are a catalyst and a matching spirit for each of the characters that invoke them.
The routes are not symmetrical, the existence of the different possibilities are meaningful and beneficial to the story.
There are a few parts which are a bit dull (Kanade sisters and Rio and Kanata’s bubbly personalities), but it’s relatively few.
Things that appear archetype…often have a deeper meaning. There is a twist or two, but over time the main heroines show the true extent of their selves.
There is basically no explicit violence in the novel, no grimdark edginess, and yet the novel still has moments which stab you to the core. The novel is full of despair and tragedy, and yet there also is most definitely happyiness. Characters pursue happiness for each other, pursue their love of another…
The story is a conceptual novel, a tragedy, a story of one girl’s growth, a story of love (and yet not a love story), and a story of three heroines. It is a story of a cast of companions and the evolving relationship between each and every one of them. By the end, among a hundred other things, you might realize, too, that love is a blackened, cruel, detestable, hopeless thing.
===
PS: I thought Kisaki (she’s the one in the title picture) would be my favourite herione by a landslide, but the other girls put on a real showing.The next game I'm playing's probably going to be Scales of Semiramis. Eek, the menu theme already is setting the mood, part melodic, part calm, part dramatic, part haunting.
-
Why are developers obsessed with the 箱庭 theme. Nothing stands out to me (yet) that would make it an interesting motif....
-
I think subtitles are fine (english or japanese). English subs are fine as long as you consciously attempt to listen for most lines. It can also provide the context to help you identify words.
-
I used the jlpt vocab lists for N5, N4, and N3.
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt5/vocab/
As a starter, something like a verb list can be nice, since they often the most important words in a sentence.
http://nihongoichiban.com/2012/08/13/list-of-all-verbs-for-the-jlpt-n4/
If you want to learn by category, it can be fun to learn words from here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:1000_Japanese_basic_words. The words obviously aren't the most common ones, and there are some rare words, but it's still useful vocab.
Keep in mind that the Japanese words, especially abstract nouns, are not used in the same way as the english words that are used as their definition.
If you're already gotten a hang of word types and basic grammar, the Core 10k deck for anki (https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/702754122) is a pretty good option. The pictures are from google search, and so are sometimes wrong, but the example sentences and audio are from native speakers.
-
noob question here, is it important to remember how to write the kanji itself if my purpose is just to understand Japanese and to read it but not write it?I ask this because learning kanji is one thing but remembering how you draw them is a different thing...for example one thing is to read 答,I know it means something like "answer" and by looking at it I can tell, but if i need to write down the kanji itself for "answer" i cant remember at all how to do it... the number of radicals or stroke number...
Yep, the first time I saw it I asked myself the same thing :/
you don't need to memorize how to write the kanji, though You still should learn to recognize the radicals: the 合 and the radical above it.
-
Nukige would be neat if it didn't break immersion. Usually what breaks immersion is outlandish H-scene tropes. I guess that would be a story told substantially through sex, which is probably not nukige but erotica.
-
Man, I feel like I'm on the unpopular side by starting with Kanji before grammar. Am I really the only one (patriotic enough) to have chosen to follow Aaeru's guide? I'm already over halfway done with Heisig, I'm too invested in it to drop it now... As I said before, I know RTK won't teach me Kanji, but it will familiarize me to the point that I will have a head start when I do learn them. Are people's suggestions really to drop RTK and avoid it like the plague? (I'm already infected if that's the case).
My first untranslated VN is either going to be that or Kanon. Kanon because I love it, and I am so familiar with the story that if I misread something in Japanese, I will know how I fucked up. Well I have a ways to go, but when I do start reading I'll take your advice.
That method is perfectly legitimate (it's not by Aaeru btw, http://forum.koohii.com/viewforum.php?id=1). RTK teaches to recognize kanji and gives a keyword, which may have some connection with one of the meanings of the kanji. It doesn't give you the on-yomi reading for compounds, I'm not sure how much easier it is to remember the on-yomi reading if you already recognize the kanji.
Throughout my study, I had to go through the process of distinguishing similiar looking kanji by looking to see which radicals differed.
塵 鹿、
籠、龍
理科 料理
等、寺
待つ 持つ
慰める、褒める
桃色、 挑戦
微かな、微妙、微塵、 （same kanji)
Doing RTK kinda front-loads this, meaning you'll have to do less of this remembering differences later on. Whether it's hugely. Proponents say it's much more effecient, but I didn't have too much problem just examining words along the way, to see if their kanji were actually the same, and learning the differences if they were different.
-
I should say something about this.
Because jparser will frequently combine kanji in weird ways, overlook that a particle is actually a particle rather than part of a word, and almost always uses the alternate pronunciation for about one third of all common kanji, it isn't perfect. However, I picked up kanji so well precisely because I used jparser. That was because I spent so much time 'fixing' jparser's choice of furigana that I memorized all possible pronunciations for all forms of the most common kanji through simple repetition. As a learning device, it is a bit Spartan in nature, though. For one thing, if you don't go in understanding the essential differences between phonetic and symbolic written languages, you'll get your tires spiked from the beginning. For another, you have to be able to instantly comprehend what they are trying to say and 'fix' it to the proper pronunciation.
Now that I think about it, learning kanji normally might be easier... I already had japanese down pat before I started using it, so my experience might not be a good reference point.
I was about to disagree with this, but I suppose I did do 1500 words and ~300 kanji and genki 1+2 before cracking out Jparser and playing a VN. It's pretty easy to tell when Jparser is parsing the word boundaries wrong.
Jparser will help you learn words, tbh, but it's not that great for helping you learn less common (but still jyouyou) kanji's on-yomi readings (like 積雪 （せきせつ）). After you hit mid-intermediate level using jparser, you'll probably end up being able to read the on-yomi for any kanji that appears in a word you recognize on sight.
instantly comprehend what they are trying to say and 'fix' it to the proper pronunciation.
Well there are actually difficult shit like 中（なか、うち） 上（うえ、じょう）、 傍 （そば、かたわら） that you probably won't be able to tell (but the meaning is similiar), and shouldn't worry too much about until you eventually read up on them/ and/or gain an intuition of them.
Then there's words with a lot of other definitions, like 冴える、. As a guideline I would say, the less sense the JParser definition makes, the more you should attach the word to the context you heard it in. Plenty of expressions and patterns can be easily picked up like this over time, if you pay attention to the tone and context and worry less about .
What I like about JParser is that it often notes the alternate, more casual meaning of words, e.g: 上等だ!
You need to know the different meanings of a word when you're learning a language, even if it's not in the context of the sentence in question, that's when JParser comes in handy.
Even in a textbook you'll still be "translating" the word to know what its different meanings can be in your language since you're not japanese and can't just read J-J dictionary out of nowhere.
But after you know that word, you won't check up on its definition anymore, unless it comes in a really odd context, but you wouldn't use JParser for that.
Yes JParser definitions aren't flawless, but they're still useful.
We're talking about memorizing basic vocabulary with JParser here.
As in, knowing what a word means in most common contexts.
Not using it as the sole way to read VNs for the rest of your life, but as a starting tool.
You have to start somewhere and I don't think JParser for a start is that bad.
Indeed you shouldn't rely solely on it, you need to try and figure things out for yourself as you go as much as possible.
But to quickly look up common words it's not a bad tool and with easy VNs it works perfectly fine.
However, to learn more specific things in the japanese language, JParser is not the best solution, but I think someone shouldn't try to venture into the harder stuff until they've got a good grasp of the basics.
Jparser is the fastest way to look up words. There's no reason to look up words in a different J-E dictionary if you have Jparser. As long as you know basic grammar (and you should keep learning it until you hit at least N3) and how sentences are structured, it will tell you which words are being used, how to read them, and their definition. It's pretty good at that (lets be honest, you're not going to use a J-J dict until quite a bit later), but you need to be aware that it's you who has to be the one piecing the meaning together.
Think of it a streamlined, but otherwise like any other normal dictionary. You wouldn't be able to get through a children's book without knowing basic grammar, even with a dictionary. Similiarly, looking up words like "to" in the dictionary is not very helpful. So ignore those super general particle definitions.
-
Damn, looking handsome there. That dead-on stare, too.Rocking the long hair man! Now I'm tempted to show my picture...
Okay fine I will, but keep in mind this was a crappy photo I had to take in order to take the SAT.
My hair is longer now by the way, took this photo like half a year ago.
-
Time looping/displacements. There are quite a few VNs now where the world repeats itself for certain reasons but I just enjoy those types of stories regardless. It doesn't seem like a guilty pleasure though.
-
Edit: Also, my perspective is significantly different for a much simpler reason... reading speed. My reading speed is just so much faster that I can't understand at a gut level what it is like to take 100 hours to complete a VN the size of Muv-Luv Alternative (as an example). .
-
In terms of appeal, Nanairo is more directed toward the mainstream... that is because Semiramis is in many ways an uncompromising criticism of Japanese society's worst aspects (the tendency toward group-think, extreme peer-pressure, weak sex-crime laws, 'hands-off' policy toward domestic issues, etc.).
-
Also, Eustia requires a particularly... high tolerance for inconsistency. Literally none of the heroine paths make sense in the context of the main story, which is downright depressing considering how pathetic Eustia is as a heroine (I loathe 'Victim A' heroines).
-
It's a stage for characters -- or just a slice of life thingy w/e common route into drama formula bleh.
It's a medium where you go around doing stuff (through the eyes of the protagonist, ofc), as opposed to watching characters do stuff.
With proper art, sound and text, there can be some chokingly immersive world settings (e.g Eustia).
It's home to the multiple route mystery, or the simultaneous existence of multiple possibilities.
-
I also love storywriting and game development to a point where I have no interest in relationships, even though I am approaching 30. If that is all I do in my lifetime, I am delighted with that. My mind might change later, of course. For now, I want to devote everything to a craft I care deeply about.
I know right? That feeling! Is that not much different from the herione (which we sometimes joke about being so idealized) who is content about her life even though it had so little? Surely it's a wonderful thing that something (not "so little" though: "something") can mean so much to you?
-
For once I shall indulge in the act of TL;WRL:
I have reached my quota of positive votes for today, so you'll have to settle for a negative one.
-1
My condolences.
Best post-avatar combo.
onlooker-san.
Best nickname.
-
We've decided to let this thread as is, but I'd like to mention that being so blunt about such a serious subject on a public forum doesn't feel very appropriate. You should consider keeping very private matters for private discussions or be a bit less abrupt about it.
Yea, there's nothing wrong with it in terms of rights or rules or how things should be, but socially it's quite frowned upon.
For some reason, I don't feel like I can give you my sincere condolences, but I do send your way a nod of acknowledgment. Hope 2015 is a good year for you.
The Member's Lounge was made for users to share experiences with one another, it's one of the ways people become closer and one of the ways people build friendships. True this is an uncomfortable topic but life is sometimes not comfortable. Sometimes it's raw, and painful, and messy. Posting only positive, meaningless stuff is a decent way to build a sterile and superficial community.
Yay some depth to fuwanovel!
Also:
#fuwaacceptseverything
-
@Avatar Honestly I rarely look closely at avatars that don't give an immediate impression. Just like card art from collectible card games, I just recognize the pattern. A user's avatar is like a VN's art style. Unless something substantial in the text/story builds up an actual impression, the art style (ie. avatar) is all you see. So if whether they are a happy, sad, cute, funny, non-anime avatar affects my perception of the, and more so, the less I know them.
Like for Tiagofvarela, I imagine his avatar (and by association, him) pointing out the points layed out in his post with a raised finger while friendlily smiling.
While some more extroverted people seek to communicate with people outside of the forums, either through Skype or IRC, or other things that I don't use, its very easy to remain relatively isolated if you only use the forums/pms to communicate.
I used skype (text) and I still felt isolated. I think I've accepted that, but whenever there's ever a chance to do something together within a field of common interests or have a meaningful discussion, I will. Like right now.
digital identity
Guy-who-wrote-the-kanon-post, played swan song (which I need to play sometime), and makes interesting posts (err, to be more objective: seems to be a person who tries to make most out of textual forum interaction to try and have deeper discussions about various relevant topics and contemplations, which I think are interesting or at least interesting enough).
1) Do you feel your avatar represents a part of your personality?
1: It's kind of like my (are you serious do you really mean that in your post) type of exasperated face, but it also on account of being really cute, disperses any passive-agressive overtones, which sorta reflects me. But the reason why I picked it up was not because of that, it was just because it was a unignorably disgustingly hngggg picture from a non-moege VN.
2) Do you feel your identity is acknowledged and known on forums (either here or other forums)?
I'd bet it is, but it's not something anyone would mention out loud. It's probably at the level of acknowledging that such and such person (I) exists, and that if you make a post about this topic, that person (I) might come in and comment. A few specific interactions with cordial and yet not distant people make me wonder if they perhaps feel positively about me, which would be a most wonderful possibility that would make me feel like beaming.
3) How well do you honestly feel you know other people on forums?
From 1-10:
RL friend:
7 ~
From skype chat:
5 bolverk, mephisto, rain {know them}
From forums only:
4 clephas, rooke {more extensive correspondence/acquaintance)
3 iced, ayana, zalor, mdz (more from his vn reviews than forum posts), 傍観者 {substantial image of them}
2 tay, astro, steve, palos, edwd and maybe a dozen others. {Have a vaguish image of them and what stance and direction they have)
1. everyone else. {Just remember their username or nothing, no image comes up}
-
Yup I read everything and agree with you. Moege characters feel like an amalgamation of spoken lines, situations, and reactions, and that's why I can't tolerate them: I've already seen those things played through a couple times. They were fun at first, but as someone always looking to read something with a new story to tell, now they suck.
Perhaps one reason why authors use the archtypes is because it makes figuring out how the character will react and writing large amounts of dialogue easier. I can't imagine it to be easy to write VN scale qualities of dialogue for more realistic characters, without major plot events for the characters to respond off of. I suppose they always have entertainment value as well.
Some of Kara no Shoujo's side heriones may have been based in archtypes, but because the situations they were in changed, they didn't come off as bad. KnS's cast of other characters, I think, is a great example of subdued, believable characters.
I do think the strong archtyping is squandering a part of the VN's potential as a medium. When characters are an unrealistically strong archtype which only branch out into some differentiation later on, they feel like an archtype with a background and traits built on, rather than a character merely falling into archetypes.
Honestly, the protagonists of VN's usually get to escape this trait. They have thoughts and reactions which, though not the object of attention, can paint a picture of who they are ("Oh the protag from X is a bit on the cowardly side). Though any of the protag's character is wasted if it doesn't interact or is relevant in the story.
-
There is seriously a lot of despair to this story... and some of the developments that come later on are outright scary in an existential fashion.
-
I guess you could say I was............ "oblivious" to it
?........................... Merry Christmas everyone (-//u//-).
Clephas' VN of the month
in Visual Novel Talk
Posted
Been playing Semiramis no Tenbin.
Ahahaha Ami and Reiji's relationship is so twisted. I only really felt that during one of the (around chapter 4) mellow sections. It's not twisted in that it's repulsive per se. Just that it's an unusual relationship that is hard to imagine and makes you a bit uncomfortable and not know what to think. Well, a fair amount of the "twistedness" to the relationship comes from Ami herself.
I thought the novel would be very edgy to start with, but it isn't. That's probably a good thing, as there are a of things the story couldn't show to the reader if they were paying attention to all these high-tension events going on. Later on I think it might be more cruel than edgy, but w/e. The discussions with Eru are probably the most interesting part so far. Eru herself is quite a pleasant character. Like someone you aren't attracted to but admire, and is pleasant. I think Ami is done well. She's subtly terrifying. The pace seems a teeny bit sluggish at times, but I've seen worse.
The novel isn't for everyone, the focus and direction of the "slice of life" and "exposition" is quite different from most VN's. It's been like 4 chapters and only like 3 characters have been developed further. Instead, a lot of ideas have been thrown around, main characters developed, and ground-work set. There's been no-payoff at all yet, not the most interesting opening section, but there have been interesting ideas and the two main heroines seem like no ordinary characters. It's pretty important for this VN to be aware and acknowledge what the story is introducing and what axis it's moving on. Otherwise it could be a pretty disappointing/boring novel.
I wonder if the game will have supernatural elements. I suppose, with the occasional voice in Reiji's head, it ought to be... (no spoil please
)
edit: http://puu.sh/fQWCN/94b17662db.jpg
makes so much sense