Chronopolis

This, total immersion is not required...I never did it. What's needed is hundreds of hours of practice, and the easiest way to do that for most people is making it a close to everyday thing. Though...without exposure to RL conversation japanese (J-drama's are a lot closer than anime/VN's) and much speaking practice, I ended up both lacking knowledge of conversational phrases and skill generating sentences, replying, and holding a conversation, despite having strong grammar sense and a decent vocabulary from reading. After you hit intermediate level, it starts to depends what material you have exposure to and what you spend time practicing (reading, writing, speaking, listening). This. That in itself is not a big problem, but it's a symptom of a more serious one (see below). To be more clear: Parsing japanese in logical units of meaning and then trying to figure out the meaning from there is OK. Turning the japanese into english before deciphering the meaning is what Clephas is talking about, and you should avoid that from day one. For example, when you think of 元気（genki), you should recall the places you've heard it used (元気ですか？　はい、元気です。　；　とても元気な子。） and tie the word's meaning to that, rather than turn it into english and then interpret that english. The following is a bit more for early intermediate learners who have begun to read native material: Attaching 脆い to english definitions like "brittle" are ok, though one thing about building connotations for the word: associate the word with the contexts you see it in, not the connotations of the english keywords you are using (ie. "brittle" or "fragile").

Oh man, the shot with Henrietta firing at 0:50 is so vivid. God bless that studio.

I liked Ga-rei Zero and Sola (the OST for that anime is really good) enough to watch the OP multiple times, but my favourite out of the ones here has to be Spice and Wolf. Most of it comes from the song, though 0:33 is an AWESOME touch. SAO 1's quite nice, though honestly I prefer it with lyrics overlay (it looks more lively) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUSwH8gsx4I I love the horizon backdrops at 1:05, the vocals are to my liking. The ED might be even better though.

Yea, I agree. It's pretty unsuitable, the level of commentary and minor stuff he talks about. Even the group that shows this as a recommendation says to go to it after you've gotten through a few VN's.

Could I get one of 13 or 14? Hiyo is down at the fact that the best season, fall, is over already.

I wanted to post this in https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/7565-the-impact-of-h-scenes-on-visual-novels/?p=196323 but it's sort of off-topic there and I doubt it will get any attention there, which is a shame because I think it's a very central topic to VN's and worth talking about. Well, without further ado: Idealization of Heriones Idealization in heriones involves: -a lack of "negative: "traits that might turn off the viewer (active conflict with or creating frustration for the protagonist (and by extension, the reader). Most heroines ultimately wish the best for everyone, a viewpoint which is usually the developer making the heroine "good", as opposed to any significance story/character-wise. -a range of combinations of qualities (innocence, sexyness, stoicness) and archtypes (ojyou-sama, osanajimi, imouto, onee-san, hyper-competent tenkousei) which may strike the readers fancy. You also have the hyper-moe/otaku/self-aware trend of games, but that's just the preference of the user-base changing over time. Old games like Kizuato still prominently feature this idealization. I think it's just a matter of what else the game has to say. I do like some of these traits and archtypes, but another part of me demands the VN bring something else original/significant/something I can appreciate (like a unique atmosphere), else I'll eventually tire of it. If you play VN's you probably like to some extent, and the absence of it (or maybe you just play VN's for the long slice of life pacing and ability/tendency to depict every step of the way you can't find anywhere else, who knows.) is discomforting, otherwise you'd be reading books for your plot/intellectual/suspense/literary fix. There are examples of games in which the direct appeal (to the reader) of the heriones plays a very minor role compared to other elements. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish what the author put in to make the character likeable and what they put in to make the characters stand out or themselves, or the story the story. Generally, if you like a trait and think a lot of other people would and it isn't relevant to the plot (counter-example: Tsubaki from G-senjyou), odds are it was done to make the character likeable. If you find the character to be *interesting*, then perhaps it's actual characterization.

Hmm, the actual topic is interesting so I'll just plow on ahead. Why do nukiges exist? -fappers may prefer the text + voice + sprite/cg interface of visual novels as it is more immersive. -the long play time gives a chance for the fapper to grow attached the the characters, resulting in a different experience. -a few people play nukige (mostly?) for entertainment value, but that's beyond the point Why do people (still) play all-ages nakige/charage-VN's? -they enjoy becoming attached to and spending time with the characters Why developers explicitly include H-scenes in non-nukige games? -some of the people who enjoy becoming attached to the characters now would like H-scenes with their herione. I mean doujinshi (derivative) porn is practically the same concept. -for people who bought the story and get bored of it and are still interested in random porn, they are included anyways. What if most VN's didn't have H-scenes? We'd have a lot more resources to devote to CG's. Imo, that wouldn't improve VN's THAT much, unless artistic directing improved as well. Well, it would certainly allow for scenarios and settings which are more CG-demanding. That's actually pretty important and a shame. In terms of the western market, it would definitely increase the marketability of these games. But many of the people interested in VN's still do so because they enjoy becoming attached the heriones, and as the TL'd hentai/doujinshi industry and manga gamer's finances show, the western fandom is no less horny than our Japanese counterparts. It's hard to speak generally, but if a VN wanted to use an H-scene for development purposes, there would be no need to include them on the other herione routes. Now, since a quota is demanded, I suppose writers will incoporate them as best as they can, to the point where the fact that the two characters have sex isn't as disruptive to the story as the fact that the VN explicitly shows the scene, for the purpose of titillation. Honestly, for this, the skip button. If you are purely talking about immersion and not outrage at the existence of fan-service in this world, 8 seconds of skip isn't bad. Now, for the topic I actually wanted to talk about: https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/7578-idealizationappeal-of-heriones-in-vns/

I agree. More interesting, I think, is the way and extent in which VN heriones are idealized.

I liked the second line of your post, that caught me off guard. Yea, I see what you mean with the description.

遠慮なし、謙虚なし、空気読みなし。　悠然、超然、いかにもマイペースで巨乳主義。

In case it isn't known how awesome this is, more is covered on that website then you would learn majoring in Japanese in a good Asian Studies post-secondary institution. Quite a bit farther than N1 grammar, and provides wider coverage on a LOT of stuff that's not listed on JLPT but that'd you'd see and pick up from or be confused with in VN's or novels. It also provides plenty of comments on spoken usage and about culture. It teaches the conjugations and bases the same way they are classified in Japanese, which does admittedly make for a steeper learning curve (more than Taekim, which is more than Genki), but which basically puts it on the same level as the resources in Japanese, except it's all gathered together. Basically, it doesn't hide any of the complexities of the language from you, so what you see is what you get (which is a lot, btw). Hooray!

Art+Text (+Music) (Visual Novel, strictly speaking about the medium. (the VN doesn't need music all the time, or even at all). The reason why I think it has the most potential is A: it's not restricted to live-action or CGI because it's relies on still-pictures and B: the existence of art, text, and music gives crazy freedom. With just text, the area in which the reader is directly experiencing the medium are just the words and prose. As such it has somewhat higher immersive potential. Gameplay is virtually ommited from this medium because as I say below, gameplay and story elements often have to comprise (the combination can create new unique products though) Choices are a very interesting feature in that they allow multiple futures to be reflected. Also from a reading experience perspective, learning why a certain choice was "correct" or lead to a certain outcome is rewarding. There are . Not all stories need choices, and branches by no means need to be symmetrical. Whatever works best for presenting the story/world/characters/experience. Text Not much to be said here, heck we use text to discuss works of all these mediums. The fact that you can define concepts using words and reuse them later on puts it far above music and text. Games (purely focus on gameplay design and interaction). Includes things like the potential of MMorpg's, etc. Art+Music combined (even ad hoc, ie. youtube songs that just have a picture with them). The number of combinations is vastly more than just art or music. If had to say, usually music is the energy/mood and art is the direction. Anime (a bit bound by the cost of animation. I wish more quality scripts were designed to be made as an anime. I think what Japan has done is refine some of the visual, directing, and stylistic effects. Stuff like the monogatari series are a great splashy use of the medium. Art Real-life Action Unfortunately I know very little about what this medium is capable and good for. It definitely has things it just best which other mediums are not that well suited towards. Basically the presence of photographic humans in the story both are one of it's most utilizable aspects and a big restriction. Games (as a storytelling medium ) (i think it's quite difficult to mix gameplay and story without losing out of one of the two...one often becomes supplementary to the other. That's fine, and in almost all cases that should be what games-with-story developers should be aiming for.)) Music (it feels a bit lacking by itself, like the emotion and impression you get from a song are limited to your imagination and previous exposure. Emotional response is like a mostly 1 dimensional sliding scale. I think if you learned about composition and could understand more

I got around to trying Hakoniwa logic and quickly dropped it (played through about 5% of the game, then skipped through about a third of it) well first of all I never thought they'll literally "you shall not pass" you got to a route without a key The "boku" heroine doesn't do much for me. Kirika was it? I pretty much had the same dead pan reaction to her as the boku herione (was that also the loli?) from irotoridori. The character type literally feels like a youngish (though a bit assertive) young lad, which I don't hate, but is simply disconcerting. Ironically one of my top favourite characters, Kuchiki Touko, from Kara no Shoujo also uses boyish speaking patterns, although the impression is completely different. Moving along, there was just too much of just built-with-moe-in-mind characters mingling around. A large part of the novel is just idle conversations, getting to know the heriones, etc. It was different from the slice of life in something like Ashita no sekai yori, which like a meaningful glimpse into the character's world. The girl with fantasies of M-play was pretty funny though. As a side note, Cabbit's works are very accessible, light on the vocab and lots of context.

I'll reserve a ticket.

Thanks for the suggestions! White Album 2 -- Yeah, that's looks like a good choice. Kazoku Keikaku -- I've kinda shirked away from it since it's moenovelized but it's been highly rated in a few places... hmm. Memories Off Series -- I've never heard of the series before O.o. The more human characters and drama is nice, reminds me of (https://vndb.org/v10557) Baldr Sky Dive = infodump, also very overwhelmingly long Soukoku no Arterial -- already playing something with gameplay Gekkou no Carneval -- nitro = fighting with lots some infodump Hatsuyuki Sakura -- will check out, damn those ratings are high. Majo Koi Nikki -- From what I hear my impressions of this game are... complicated, (https://vndb.org/t5426) Mirai Nostalgia -- bad experience from purple's soft's hapymaer, which is supposedly a better game Irotoridori no Sekai -- played it a teeny bit, didn't like it. Probably will play it eventually (play at least one irotoridori/hoshimemo-like game) Ah, I took a look at reviews of Comyu and it looks like something that would definitely interest me (emphasized is the sense of community, though each person has motives, and the vn also explores some of the immediate consequences/possibilities that would arise from gaining control of such power). Narcissu and True Rembrance I will get to some time. I also saw Symphonic rain, and someone said that the mini-games were adorable.

I've found myself a bit burnt out on the games I'm playing and looking for something new. You can see what I've played from my vndb profile. 日本語OKです. Criteria: Isn't moege. Can be a game that classified as nakige but can't be something just meant to make you cry. No KEY. Doesn't primarily take place in a school setting. Isn't really dark and screwed up. Simply being sad, gloomy, harsh via realism, or serious is OK Isn't super convoluted and confusing. Has some plot or is plot-focused (not a huge amount of slice of life, charage's are ok if they come with drama/plot). Doesn't have long infodumps. Doesn't use excessively grand verbose language (ie. dies irae, hello lady, muramasa)

Here are what I consider to be the four layers of a translation, each of with a TL can be scored against. Generally speaking, if a TL doesn't solidly fufill a layer, all the successive layers are pretty much meaningless. Basic Correctness (does it mean the same thing?): no excuses here Tone correctness (are the characters' intent depicted correctly? Are they angry/sarcastic/friendly/bored when they should? Is the tone correct?) Naturalness (does it sound like natural English?): This is the primary job of the editor. The TL's job is to create a TL version that conveys the original content to the editor successfully fulfilling layers 1 and 2. Prose and Flow (does the description/dialogue flow well line to line? Does it sound like it was written like it was meant to be in English?): Depends largely on the writing skill of the editor. Besides these four layers, there are some "Side things" (imo not that important, if you mess them up it doesn't automatically bomb the translation): Annoying stuff (Adaptation of Jokes, Cultural Stuff): Do what ever the heck you want. People spend an inordinate amount of time debating this, which is quite fine, except in the case where the translation's correctness (layer 1 and 2) are in question, which is in the case of many VN projects, even official ones ( -_-). Choosing how to adapt language-related literary tricks: This falls into the "Flow" category, and, as such, is quite advanced. Like the other "annoying stuff", there often isn't an obvious solution. If you don't have all the previous layers of the translation solid, just find something workable and do that. Otherwise, anyone sharp enough to appreciate your adaptation of the literary device is going to cringe hard at your lack of correctness/tone/naturalness, defeating the purpose. Or just pick a different work, this stuff is really hard. Censoring: Nope, please don't.

Prioritize getting across the same tone of the novel and impressions/intent of characters. Also, get the translation "right". This necessarily demands knowing both the source and target language well. A native-japanese speaker with OK english is going to need a lot of support and direct consultation with the editor for the lines to turn out well. A japanese learner english native better know enough Japanese and have the decency to recognize and lookup expressions/grammar that they don't know. For most VN's it shouldn't matter, but with those with a particular writing style, if possible explain that style (short sentences, "punchy" narrative, flowy text, or grandiose description), and more importantly, any impression it should give, to the editor. Honestly this is beyond me and only people who have experience and nailed down the above items should even try this.

I think I get why.

Mah, maybe it's not me, but I hope they don't play spam that kind of song along with death scenes. Maybe I'm wierd, but it'd be cool to see more unusual stuff. A character who was lost before but (fatefully? or maybe it wasn't a coincidence at all?) found themselves during the death game and burns the brightest. Instead of mourning some passed, you stand in awe of a person who in a true sense, lived their life in but a scant few days. Of course, I don't really have an idea of how you construct a character and plot to execute that, but...

TL of the image above: ------ "Until I stand alone, this game will not end." My lover, ____ while wielding a drawn blade, spoke those words. One peaceful spring day, the coastal countryside village ____ knew was turned upside down. At the school he was so used to attending, the threat of violence spreads an air of unease. No evil "foe" was to be seen, but it was unmistakably drawing closer. To protect those dear to them, the boys and girls each took hold of a weapon. To forestall leaving a last one, what took place was a --- tender, compassionate war. A moving human drama which paints two souls the toys of cruel fate. ------ Man, I dig this kind of a battle lined with kindness, cause it combines utsuge and characters in the crucible with my love for compassionate characters.This type of stuff needs multiple routes to make the best of it, it's also very easy to screw up and make stupid.

Thanks for the pointers, Clephas. It's unfortunate that you read them (well you could say you've been through the ride already) and your guidance is heartily appreciated . Everyone three cheers for Clephas! I'd say most of the readers in the group are ... intermediate readers at least, people at least 5 or so japanese VN's under their belt. That's why I didn't stray away from intermediate to on-the-hard side VN's like Rui Tomo, Hello Lady, Tokyo Babel. If 2000 lines a week is too overwhelming, we can always adjust it. Edit: Finished the prologue. Actually read the tutorial. As someone who hasn't really played gamplay VN's, the gameplay itself is a big change. I can't wait for the setting and characters to develop. Immediately the setting is different from all the VN's I've seen so far (non-gamplay). I wonder what the interaction between gods and the heros are. Eustia had some backstory, but it wasn't any expansive like nordic legends, etc. Kizuato had some lore to it, but they were more like urban legends, folk lore than dieties, age of gods, the grand type of lore. I liked how the narrative at the end the prologue wasn't just throwaway lines. The rape, and how they took it fairly seriously afterwords, kinda set a serious/harsh tone. Eustia also depicted a harsh side, but using the thief Caim beat up, guys getting killed, beggars, and people who in the same way have lost the light in their eyes, instead of rape. Of course, the perpetrators are different here, but I'll just chalk the difference in choice and the fully present H-scene to the gameplay-eroge effect. --Edit--- Info: Week 1 Check point: Finish Chapter 1 (11/25/2014) Anything below may contain unmarked spoilers up to the end of chapter 1. If discussing anything beyond chapter 1, please put it in spoiler tags and mark it.