Clephas
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Posts posted by Clephas
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Aaeru and the others brought up a good point when they thought up the idea of using Kickstarter to fund the localization of VNs for various languages. However, there are a number of conditions that would need to be cleared first.
1) Convincing the company in question to get behind the idea. Many VN companies would probably be delighted to affray the costs associated with localization through a method like Kickstarter. However, as of yet, awareness over there of this idea is rather low and the Japanese are natural conservatives, and for the most part they dislike being the 'first' to do something. Not only that, many companies who sell ero-versions would be unwilling to localize due to content issues such as rape scenes, fetishism, and the love of the loli. All of these could create potential problems for them at home and abroad.
2) Setting goals. First, you have to consider... just how many languages do you want to localize it in? How will you distribute it? How do you plan to convince others to take an interest in helping fund the project? For that matter, how do you attract the attention of fans unaware of Kickstarter? Do you want to utilize the fantranslator community or will you use professionals? What kind of stretch goals will you set? What kind of rewards will you give out to donators (other than the digital or physical versions of the game itself)?
3) Preparation. Be prepared to rush the initial translation, working your translators, editors, and quality-checkers to the bone for months on end. For a project like Grisaia, for instance, you could find yourself working for six months to a year flat, even if you had several translators working through most of the day, five days a week. Another thing, impressing not only with speed but with quality would be key to producing a possible second project. Not only will this attract fan interest, it will also gain trust with developers, potentially allowing you to more easily start future projects.
4) People. Whether you use pros or enthusiasts, you have to have people willing to take on the job, or you'll waste everyone's time. Without a staff on hand, it is all too likely that the developer will ignore you outright. Most VN companies make very, very little money on their games after costs. As such, you would have to display you had the resources to do what you say you want to do before they would be willing to make an investment in your ideas.
5) Alternate Idea. Raise money to actually buy the license to a VN, rather than negotiating with the developer to do a Kickstarter project. To be honest, I find this option to be slightly more realistic than convincing most VN companies make a bet on something as unfamiliar to them as crowdfunding.
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Tsukihime is pretty glitchy in the first place. It froze or died on me regularly on me when I played it through the first time. I've yet to try it on Windows 7, though.
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It is more frustrating at times than a matter of pride. There are so many games I'd love to addict other people to but can't because they haven't been translated. The times when I act superior are mostly attempts to needle others into learning enough Japanese to make the dive into untranslated games. It's more than a little lonely being unable to share game stories with those who might love them without spoiling them. Moreover, the VN-playing community in general is small and the Japanese-competent are an even smaller group within that community, which makes finding people who share your interests and tastes amongst your peers incredibly hard. Yes, I'm proud that I learned Japanese with the sole original motivation of playing video games and watching anime, because I actually managed to do it solely with that motivation. However, I don't consider myself superior to others... rather, in the sense that I am incapable of escaping my addictions, I'd say I'm probably a little less mentally stable than most...lol
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Currently playing Gensou Douwa Alicetale. Finished Lovesick Puppies earlier.
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Pretty much the only enhanced version I want is the Ayakashibito enhanced version... it had an extra route with an unexpected character (like seriously, that one is a heroine?!!) that splits off from one of the main routes. Unfortunately, I've yet to obtain it (it's hard to find) and I have no intention of trying to emulate it...
Edit: Also, it is much more frustrating to try and get someone to hack a console game when you are thinking of doing a translation project. As it is, most decent games have reverse-engineering tools hanging around, so if I ever get in the mood I can just begin work. However, with console games, that isn't the case...
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Mmm... personally I don't have much of a taste for console VNs. Most of them are rehashes of PC versions and those that aren't are usually anime-related (meaning the story is already well-known or it is a side-story tacked on like a fandisc). Those that are made exclusively for a console don't tend to be all that interesting (though part of that is because I hate anything made by Nitroplus after Muramasa except Phenomeno). Also, I'm essentially lazy, so I prefer to have Jparser at hand to give me obscure word and kanji meanings rather than taking the effort to bring them out of the depths of my skull. I have played a few console VNs... but Utawarerumono 2 was the only one I was obsessed enough with to actually enjoy. *Clephas fails to mention that he finds games that lack violence, philosophy (not pseudo-philo like you see in Steins;Gate), and ero to be boring*
Edit: lol, yes, I have been that corrupted by my time in eroge. If it lacks all three of those, I do indeed have trouble enjoying it... because my first loves are philosophy and violence. Also, truly great console VNs eventually end up on the PC for the most part, in any case.
Edit 2: Well, if the game has a particularly good protagonist - a rarity in moege, which make up the majority of console ports and the like - I am generally willing to play it. But if there is even the least hint of a PC release, I don't bother.
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True, it is Pandora's Box. I rearranged my life around VNs shortly after I played my first one in Japanese.
My 10 (on a scale of 1-10 with ten being the most difficult) would probably require a minimum of JLPT 3 to just barely comprehend the gist of maybe 50% things... and if you wanted full understanding, you'd need 2 or 1 (1 probably). Most VNs hover around JLPT 2 for full comprehension... without jparser. With Jparser, I'd say you might be able to handle things if you have JLPT 2... though a 3 or 4 might be able to puzzle them out. Still, go ahead and dive in, even if you've only managed 5. You'll pick things up along the way, as you struggle to comprehend. As long as you don't go using some stupid machine translator to create a facsimile of engrish to rely on.
Edit: One thing to be clear about, some obscure Japanese proverbs and sayings we simply don't have the background to interpret and have no corresponding saying in English. For this reason, even if you can read kanji straight up, you should still have Jparser on and ITH attached so you can get the meaning of new proverbs as you go. It saves the time of searching Japanese websites and lets you continue playing uninterrupted.
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No, we are the minority. We are just an obsessed and addicted minority that makes a lot of noise. The limited number of translated VNs makes recommending them rather pointless, in any case.
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A lot of early-era and doujin games generally need to switch out music, for reasons that become obvious upon playing them. Tsukihime is an obvious example, but Abyss- Homicide Club is another that sometimes needs a music switch out... the lack of money available to the makers tends to be more likely to create situations like that. Companies with a lot of money have a bad habit of splurging on music but getting a random music director, who doesn't have any idea of how to use the music at hand. As a result, you can end up with great soundtracks, but have them so poorly used you can't get into the game at all.
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To be honest, most VN's are best on the first playthrough, though others reveal new aspects on second playthroughs and remain interesting or are emotionally powerful precisely because you've played them before... I wouldn't be surprised if a good number of people here wouldn't be happy to replay all their games from the beginning if they were allowed to forget the content.
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Aaeru, almost all my real top ten are beyond beginners' ability to read. These are entry-level in comparison. Also, the top two are most definitely easy ones. To be blunt, you don't get any easier than that without being a completely vapid moege or a nukige. Ruitomo and Tasogare are both somewhat hard, but only do in a middling fashion. If you've played three or four of the other games, you will be able to handle those two. Evolimit... isn't especially hard save for the specialist terms relating to artificial intelligence and the like. For one thing, I chose these games because they use terms that are mostly picked up correctly by Jparser and edict in combination so you can easily make out words without having to guess or pull out a kanji dictionary. Ruitomo's word choices aren't that unusual for the most part. It's just really wordy, thus making it a hard sell for people who aren't readers by nature. Tasogare is similar in that fashion. If I listed my personal top ten favorites, I'd have to add Dies Irae and Jingai Makyou, as well as a few other nightmarishly hard to read games to the list.
Edit: When I made the list, I assumed most people would be relying on jparser and edict to one extent or another. Digging into untranslated VNs without a working knowledge of Japanese grammar is not something I can recommend, to be honest. Vocab can be picked up as you go and unusual sentence structure can generally be figured out from that base of grammatical knowledge. However, the knowledge of common tenses, particles, and sentence structure that make up Japanese grammar is a necessary precursor to fully enjoy any VN in its original language. Machine translations are still a joke, after all.
Edit2: For reference, my permanent top 5
1- Evolimit
2- Ikusa Megami Zero
3- Devils Devel Concept
4- Draculius
5- Jingai Makyou
The lower five periodically switch out or switch places, depending on shifts in my tastes or the appearances of new gems. Currently, Yurikago, KonaKana, and Dies Irae occupy spaces in those lower five, but Ruitomo is a pretty constant 13-16 and Tasogare is somewhere around 50-60 depending on my mood. It's pretty hard to get into my top ten, and it usually involves being part of my favorite genre. The main reason Evolimit is #1 is that it combines great music, great music use, good visuals, awesome characters and character interactions, good action, and a truly epic story with strong emotional impact, not to mention a lot of hilarity when outside the action. In other words, it hits all my buttons without being junk food, like Yurikago is (Yurikago being a flagrant appeal to chuuni addicts)
Edit3: Also, save for Yurikago (which as I said before, is genre-addict junk food and a bit too much for people who don't like bloodshed, weird characters, and strange worldviews) all those games have pretty wide appeal, which is pretty important when choosing a game to recommend to the general public, while also being readable and generally mid to high quality. No point in introducing someone to a kusoge or a generic moege for their first outing. I would have added Uruwashi no to the list, but due to times when it suddenly becomes high-difficulty (economic terms, unusual terms, quick-pace with rapid events and twists that can be hard to follow if you can't yet grasp the language well) toward the end of the individual character paths, I had to cross it out.
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Around 70% of all moege reuse generic (some even using public domain stuff) music for their BGMs, with the other 30% utilizing original music made in the style particular to the genre. At least, that was the case with the ones I've played. It's a lot less trouble to name games with awesome music than it is to name ones with bad or mediocre music... especially after you've devoured a large number of VNs like I have.
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Probably Dies Irae or Ruitomo...
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Generally, one of the most common factors that causes a team leader to burn out is when people drop out or stop working and he has no way to find out why. Many leaders burn out as a result of the frustration of repeatedly hunting down replacement tls and other staff, as well as failing to meet the goals they set. Basically, burnout is an emotional phenomenon as well as a physical and mental one. The more frustration you experience on a project, the more apathetic you become and the closer you get to burnout. If the leader doesn't shift his burdens to someone else at this point, the group can collapse either from neglect or the leader losing his temper and saying something he doesn't really mean.
Edit: The reason I included constant conversation with the members as a leader's job is because that is the only really effective method of maintaining members' loyalty to the project. Considering that most fantls start out with nothing but enthusiasm, something has to be there to hold them when the enthusiasm begins to fade or they'll vanish on you. Signs of this usually include a slowing in work, followed by unrelated complaints about relatively minor issues. At this point, most are trying to convince themselves they are somehow right to abandon the project by creating grievances in their mind. This is in the case of a 'moral tl' who feels a sense of obligation but who is on the verge of burnout. Ones who don't care what others think will generally just drop off without any prior sign other than a slow drop in the work rate. Regardless, taking care to remain engaged with your members is the job of the leader that is most likely to keep both sides from burning out completely. It reminds them they aren't alone and that someone is hoping for them to finish their work on a personal level, as opposed to the more general sense of the fanboy community. (this is basically psychological manipulation, but that is the essence of good leadership when you can't drag people around using your charisma) One last warning... do not ever put projects on complete hiatus. Your project will die, without a doubt if you do so. There are exceptions, but you should never be so arrogant as to believe you are that exception.
Edit2: A few final words, then I'll stop lecturing. Holidays. While some fantls work harder over the holidays, the vast majority of your members won't have time to do the work on major holidays and at the very least you'll have to plan to reduce their normal workloads during such times. This is especially true for high-travel holidays like Thanksgiving or Christmas in the US and New Years in non-Christian sphere countries. Reduce the personal workloads during those times but add in more scripts to the section you set aside for anyone to work on as they have time.
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In my approach, the leader should first ask his translators what they think is a reasonable goal. New or enthusiastic translators will always set their goals too high to meet. This is no joke, this is talking from experience. Fantranslations take a lot more patience and effort than fansubbing. As a result, most of your translators will burn out if you try to enforce a pace they say is good. A good round number is a hundred lines a day or five hundred a week. A hundred lines in the hands of an experienced translator is forty-five minutes to an hour's worth of work, and in the hands of an inexperienced translator, it is generally around two hours of work. Most people with the time to translate at all can probably manage those two hours several days in a given week.
This is knowledge you need from your team members:
1- Likely availability (specific days of the week, times of day in which they are available)
2- An email address they check regularly
These are tools you should arrange or make sure your people have
1- A central area (non-public) such as a dropbox account where you can put together the scripts (finished and unfinished)
2- Separate folders for 'assignments' for each individual(basically, by calculating the time each person will potentially have available and dividing it in half, you can make a reasonable schedule for each individual tl)
2B- Also make a separate folder full of script assignments for those who have free time. You can always reassign them later as the project gets closer to completion or move others to this folder if it is emptied.
3- An IRC channel (any kind of central chat client where you can make individual 'rooms' will do, as long as all your people gather there)
4- If they don't have them already, suggest tools like Translation Aggregator's JParser function to aid in quicker and more efficient translation
5- Your replacement. Sorry to say, but burnout is possible even for a project leader. To be blunt, it is an incredibly frustrating position, and you would be wise to find a replacement or an alternate if you start feeling tired or apathetic. If nothing else, your sudden death or loss of internet access would not disrupt the project in a case such as this.
Advice
1- Do NOT, under any circumstances create a public site until the actual patch is complete. In the case of fantranslations, it is better to ask for forgiveness than permission. The more popular the game, the more likely you will get a cease and desist request/order. This is a mistake almost every group makes, and there are always members who are unwilling to continue after such.
2- Recruitment should be done through intermediaries such as this site or in relatively anonymous places like IRC channels.
3- Recruiting translation staff can be (is almost always) difficult. My first advice would be to look at the credits of active anime fansub groups and fish for potential members... but that is only one of many methods. Many VN-related forums like this one have related irc channels that usually have a few lurker tls like myself around. If they have time, there is a chance they will be willing to help.
4- Keep talking to your members and keep them talking. Even if it is meaningless conversation, the act of speaking with them casually will create a sense of attachment that makes it less likely for them to drop out of sight without warning.
5- If something major happens to you irl, don't hesitate. Put your alternate in place and go take care of things. Letting your rl rot will only end your involvement in a more abrupt manner later.
Edit: Really and truly, you'd be best off not creating a public site at all and putting your patch out through a third party like this site. To be blunt, people like Aaeru are perfectly willing to take on the risks you might not be willing to do in order to distribute translated games.
Edit2: Make sure your people understand that the availability information they are giving to you is availability for translation, free of other pursuits, not free time in general. Most fantranslators are also VN and/or anime/manga junkies. Thus, if something interesting comes their way, some of that time will inevitably go toward those pursuits, if not the bulk of it. I felt a need to restate this as it is something that needs to be stated from the beginning, for the good of future work relations with your fellows.
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Hmm, sorry to disagree, but...
I think, following The Mythical Man-Month, use as few people as possible that can still get the job done (a judgment call to be sure), because more people involved in a project increases the risk of organizational overhead and communication problems.
I don't usually see that happen, though. Having worked as an editor on a questionable script, I can tell you that it's not always easy to go back and fix. I say do it right the first time, and avoid a mess later on.
That's why you should always pick a team leader who knows what is going on and has no other task but organizing the team. In addition, a second-rate translation is better than none, which is what most games get.
Edit: Generally, teams break down for a number of reasons... but primary amongst them are burnout and team managers that try to do stuff other than manage things. The groups I've worked with that worked out the best inevitably had a plethora of members with a project leader whose only real job was managing the team and the project as a whole. Also, a leader should be able to nag his members, possessing their contact information (online, of course) and be prepared to find a replacement for any given member as needed. I may not have stated it strongly enough in my previous post, but if you don't finish the translation, there will be no patch and all your efforts will go to nothing. As a further note, setting reasonable goals for each member and enforcing deadlines inasmuch as is possible is part of the job. A manager who lets the translator decide what he will translate next inevitably ends up with nothing getting done. Providing clear beginnings and endings to a chunk of work is necessary for stress management, and a decent project manager will be aware of what is doable and what isn't. I once received a request to translate one thousand lines in a single day... needless to say, it didn't work out. (a hundred lines a day is doable for just about anyone with two hours or so of free time and a knowledge of Japanese though)
Edit2: I should have added this earlier, but the editor's job in this kind of case switches from just transforming engrish to english to also unifying the basic writing style of the text. A raw translator's job is to get the gist of things down more or less accurately, the editor's job is to provide continuity between the various translators' work and turn that raw mass of material into legible english. To an extent, this part of the job can also be done by the translation-checker, by matching the english style to the Japanese style in tone... but to be blunt, asking for that level of results on a VN translation is a bit much.
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Common sense combined with experience and an understanding of team-building leads to logical conclusions. Keeping the burden nice and spread out over as many people as possible leads to quicker results and more likely completion of projects. The problem is finding someone with the organizational skills and tools to keep people moving in the same direction who also is able to make certain he has someone available to pass the burden to if he hits the massive boulder that is rl. In other words, if you are the project leader, make sure you have a replacement or alternate (or three) lined up to take things over, with all your resources in hand so that the project doesn't die just because you get hit by a car or sent to jail for owning lolicon manga.
In other words, if you want to get things done, discard your pride. You can always go back and fix things that go wrong on the 'quick and dirty' approach later if you aren't satisfied. That's where perfectionism really shines, if you have that passion. Perfectionism is a weakness in a fantranslation group where it is not a weakness in a fansubbing group (primarily because a fansub group can get away with it, as anime series just aren't as much work or as overall demanding on project members). I don't condemn idealists or perfectionists entirely... they have their place. They go around behind the 'quick and dirty' types and grumble while fixing things at a dogged pace for their own self-satisfaction, earning their place of respect in the community for that hard work. However, perfectionism should never prevent fans from getting what they want...lol
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Izuna Zanshinken. Superviolent vigilante assassinations and psychopathic Romanian lolis.
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Devils Devel Concept
Dies Irae: Acta est Fabula
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The main reason I speak for large numbers of tls is to prevent burnout. An intelligent translator should weigh his pride and the project on a scale and choose the project every time. If he wants to, he can always go back over it later, after the project has been released. VN translations are so rare and exhausting that it is idiotic to even attempt to do it on your own on a project of any scale.
Edit: An editor's job is only to turn the raw translation into coherent English. The translation checker's job is to conform that coherent English to something matching the original meaning of the words without making it sound awkward (a primary reason why a tlc must not only have mastered Japanese but have good English writing skills). A project leader should never, ever be one of the translators. Translators are almost always the first members to experience burnout, due to the sheer volume of mental labor they undertake, and their work is also the most time-consuming. If a translator founds a project, one of his first jobs should be to find someone who is not a translator to organize and recruit members. To be blunt, the demise of most projects can be directly linked to translators taking on too much of the job of running the project themselves and being unwilling to hand over control to someone else. Editors are easily replaced, as are proofreaders. However, translators (and hackers) are relatively rare and difficult to recruit. All effort should be made to slow and prevent burnout of translators, as they are the keys to the project. To be blunt, 'if you translate it, it will eventually become a patch, but if you don't translate it, it will be nothing more than a bunch of words in a foreign language'.
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Better is
1. translation
2. editing
3. TLC
4. Proofreading
5. QC
NEVER do editing after TLC for any type of translation project. Editors by definition ruin translations by accident as they go, and an experienced TL (preferably more experienced and skilled than the one doing the raw translation) is going to be able to perform the job of a second editor as well, conforming the redone english text to the original meaning without making it sound weird. Also, for large projects, you should have as many as four raw translators, preferably having split the game more or less evenly based on route, with the common route given over to whoever has the most free time or whoever is available at the moment (file it as 'anyone who wants it' or something like that).
Edit: The reason for four translators is that most VNs have around four or five heroines and the fact that a VN translation project of any size is just too much for a single translator in most cases. Nothing more certain to doom a project than a translator feeling isolated.
Edit2: For a regular sized kinetic novel (VNs with only a single path and ending - other than bad endings) two translators or even a single translator and a tlc would be enough. The larger the project you are tackling, the more people you are going to need, as most people aren't going to be able to hang on for six months to a year on a single project without burning out.
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Evolimit BGM's
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Don't get chara-ge mixed up with regular moege or story-focused. In the case of the latter, the overarching story takes precedence and in the case of the former, visual aspects and blatant appeals to moe archetypes tend to take precedence. The Key games are mostly story-focused, despite having a cast with a strong impact. In games like this, the drama is minimal and when it exists it is personal. Suzunone Seven, Kamikaze Explorer, and Prism Recollection (all by Clochette) are of this type. On the other hand, Hoshimemo is most definitely NOT of this type, as it focuses as much on the overarching theme and story as on the characters. It's a really fine line... Another common aspect is the lack of a 'true' or 'central' heroine...
It would be a lot easier just to give you a set of common moege that have a strong set of characters (in descending order as they are on my vndb VN list)
Maji de Watashi ni Koinishinasai
Marginal Skip
Otome wa Boku ni Koishiteru (both the first and second game)
Chuning Lover
Konna Ko ga Itara, Boku wa Mou!
Anything by the company Whirlpool
Mashiro Iro Symphony
Sakura Iro Quartet (avoid anything else by this company)
Strawberry Feels
Tayutama
Toppara Zashikiwarashi no Hanashi (despite having a true heroine, this is definitely a chara-ge)
WLO Sekai Ren'ai Kikou
Walkure Romanze
Acchi Muite Koi
Anata no Koto Suki to Iwasete
Dolphin Divers
Duelist X Engage
Flag Heshiori Otoko
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Games with great soundtracks
Anything by Akatsuki Works or Propeller
For something more recent: Hapymaher
Yurikago yori Tenshi Made
Hapymaher
Visual Novel translations: Kickstarter?
in Visual Novel Talk
Posted
Forgive me for double posting, but I wanted this to be separate from the post above. To be blunt, to create a project like this, whether you use the straight crowdfunding method or the alternative of purchasing the license (probably using donations), this would be a huge commitment on part of the founder of the project. First, the founder would have to take responsibility for whatever he chose to bring over. For this reason, it would probably be wise to choose a title with as little extreme hentai as possible (avoid anything with rape, obviously underage heroines, or BDSM). For the second part, you should choose a project that has relatively wide appeal but is not boring or along the lines of what Mangagamer prefers to bring over (no nukige, no second-rate moege or chara-ge). Competing directly with Mangagamer at this point would be unwise, as success would hold the potential to unite our community behind this idea as a whole and failure would probably mean no more projects like it for some time. I'd suggest something by Will or one of its subsidiaries or Akabeisoft2 or one if its subsidiaries. My main reason is that both are none for producing games that are high quality, have wide appeal, and have a depth lacked by most of the commercially localized games currently being released in the US and other Western nations. Will is a more likely prospect, as Akabeisoft2 and its subsidiaries block foreign IP access to their sites pretty rigorously. Be prepared to set stretch goals including multiple translations (translations into German, Russian, etc.) if you choose the Kickstarter method. This will make it more likely to gain access to crowdfunding from foreign fanboys, which will make it that much more likely that you get funded on time. Spread the news. Advertising, whether it is banners or word of mouth (or posting on otaku sites all over the net) will be necessary to draw attention to the project. Without a crowd to fund it, your project will be dead in the water.
Edit: Realistically, a project like this would probably need help from all parts of the community. Ironically, the current split in the community's opinions is one of the biggest obstacles to success outside of the problems already mentioned. A sixth point that should probably be added to the first post I made is hiring or discovering someone who can figure out all the legal obstacles to a project like this. It is better to have all your ducks in a row before pulling the trigger, after all.