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Oxygen

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  1. Like
    Oxygen reacted to Ramaladni in What are "Classic" VNs?   
    I'm pleased to know that you found this to be interesting, and that you already had some knowledge of these games - rather unexpected.
    About Lolita, refer to this post. It's more so that the meaning of "lolicon" back in the 80s and 90s was different, it changed over time, and so did the characters.
    The term "visual novel" does exist in Japan, as does "digital novel". However, they usually refer to them as adventure or erotic games (eroge for short). They consider everything to be a game, as it should be, since they're all pieces of software. Because of this, there are eroge that aren't considered visual novels by western definition. The problem with this is that there are extremely important games not documented by vndb, like one of the first dating sims to ever be localized (https://vndb.org/t12262), but there is space left for five minutes troll games made with Ren'py. On the other side, you have EGS (Erogamescape, the Japanese eroge database) that lists especially text-heavy RPGs, or things like the Idolm@ster games... Perfect examples of being too exclusive and too inclusive.
    That's a problem with Japanese otaku who want their games to be as long as possible. They want fandiscs, they want spin-offs, sequels. For me, when I finish reading a book, and if it's a good book, I'm moving on to the next one, not exactly wishing for more. Unless it's a really, really good story, I'd rather keep things fresh with a new scenario and set of characters, but that's just me. Personally, I dislike unnecessary padding and filler.
    As for alternative versions, eroge, just like any other game, receive updates or re-releases over time (updated art, OS compatibility, resolution, music, extra scenarios, extra voice acting, etc.). It's not all that uncommon, and in most cases I'd recommend playing the latest version. However, not all updates can be considered improvements - the new art could be awful, the new scenarios might not fit with the story, the voice acting might suck, the ending might change completely to a terrible one, and so on...
    It's really important to do your proper research to be sure that you are playing the best version, or at least the one that you believe will get the most enjoyment out of. Another point to consider as English speakers is translation quality and such - whoever said that a bad TL is better no TL either doesn't care for the game or has absolutely no standards. Censorship is an even bigger issue - removing entire characters because they might be deemed ofensive, removing sexually suggestive text, altering CGs, etc.
     
    Anyway, I'm sorry for derailing the thread. I'm sure that you'll be well-served with what the other users recommended so far. Like clephas said, Visual Novels are very genre heavy, each genre having their own tropes and commonalities. With time, you too will find your own preferences.
  2. Like
    Oxygen got a reaction from Ramaladni in What are "Classic" VNs?   
    Well, this is very informative. Thank you. I knew of some of these already and I was already familiar with ero famicom games. I spent a lot of time listening to pc-98 music too, so if you tell me about them I might recognize some names. What do you mean by "loli games" meaning something different now? Also, what are Visual Novels called in Japan? They don't have a general term for the medium? 
    I really don't like the sequelitis many visual novels seem to have. Having so many things be a massive franchise is sort of offputting. Alternative, ultimate, zero, redux, etc. After reading Narcissus, I don't get why it needs anything else to tell its story.
  3. Like
    Oxygen reacted to Pabloc in Dustmania WTF   
    ^ And what if someone likes both guro and lolis? 
  4. Like
    Oxygen reacted to Ramaladni in What are "Classic" VNs?   
    Classic, as in genre defining and revolutionary for the times? It is important to note that these not only face the hardware limitations of the times, but are reflective of what the audience was interested in. I will also not talk about "visual novels" since that's an english term, but eroge (erotic games).
    Lolita Yakyuuken (PC-88) probably the first eroge, and most certainly the first loli game (which has a different meaning nowadays). Alice is another text adventure lolige.
    Strawberry Porn Game Series (PC-88) an erotic graphic adventure game initially marketed as an aid for couples to learn sexual positions, and for one of the first depictions of sexual conduct in full graphics. Moreover, it was developed by Koei!
    Custer's Revenge (Atari 2600) is one of the first games where the sole objective is to well, rape women. And thus, should be considered the origin of eroge involving sexual assault. 
    Mari-chan's Close Call (PC-88) a sadistic game where you act as Mari-chan's bodyguard, all the while she is being chased by all kinds of assassins and crazy stalkers. After each encounter, Mari loses one piece of clothing, being naked by the end of the game. It's an undressing (as a reward) type of game. Oh, and would you look at that, it was made by Enix, everyone's beloved company.
    Tokyo Nanpa Street (PC-88) quite possibly the origin of dating sims - nanpa referring to the act of flirting with/trying to pick up/hitting on women. Rather than just finding women to have sex with, here you actually have to pick the correct choices to be able to smooth them over.
    Then you have Fairy Dust 's games, which are based on some of the first H-OVAs. Some of the characters are voiced by the REAL idols (look at Lemon Angel), so you can only imagine what it was like to listen to your favorite idol live and then fap to her moans on your computer back in your basement.
    If you noticed the Escalation games released by Fairy Dust and thought of the games published by JAST...you're on the right track. They are remakes of the original games, but JAST won't tell you this so no one will know the story behind these games.
    Super Real Mahjong a series of undressing mahjong games, that originated on the Arcade. Yup, that's right, you could undress women in public...without going to jail!
    Then, you could think of the Dragon Knight series, combining RPG with sexual elements, the game being created by Elf, one of the most important eroge companies.
    Rance 1 - the series that spawned an entire franchise, with new games still being made today. A fantasy ADV/RPG that belongs to Alice Soft, an eroge company probably about as important as Elf.
    To round them up, you have Fairytale with their own works mixing RPG with sexual elements, as well as more plot-heavy mystery/detective work games.
    Skipping forward, you have Elf's Dokyuusei, taking the concept of nanpa and affection systems to create what was considered to be a true masterpiece. You don't start dating the heroines after one or two conversations - you have to meet their several times as you trigger events and develop your relationship, finding out when and where they show up on the map, and learning their patterns/schedule. Compared to Tokyo Nanpa Street, there is a greater reward and emphasis on visiting the same heroine multiple times.
    Dokyuusei spawned an entire series of games, anime series, live-action films and more. A true classic dating sim.
    If you believe that RPG/ADV hybrids and text adventure games and shouldn't be considered VNs, well, I think it's important to consider the origin.
    This about covers the PC-88 era. Now for PC-98...
    I'm too tired to go on, and I'm not even sure if this is what you wanted. Then again, I now realize that this might be too much to take in for a beginner. Even if I told you, for example, that One ~Kagayaku Kisetsu e~ is THE game that really spun the wheels for the "nakige" genre, Clannad is probably the better game (and the one that everyone knows/plays). 
    If you mean classic as in extremely popular and that stands the test of time, sorting vndb/EGS by popularity ranking or rating would give you the answers you seek. Like, literally taking a look at this list gives you a good idea of some of the "must read" titles. First play the good games that are popular to create a foundation, and later research a particular genre that you're interested in. Old games aren't just for everyone either, even if there are concepts and characters that are as good today as they were back then.
     
  5. Like
    Oxygen reacted to r0xm2n in What are "Classic" VNs?   
    * Grisaia no Kajitsu . Pretty much ticks all the boxes (even the school setting is not quite the average school setting). Don't let the colorful cast and overly comedic common route fool you either (there are reasons the characters are as eccentric as they are, character routes get quite dark).
    * ef - a fairy tale of the two . Goes from love triangle drama ....... into some friggin' dark territory in the latter tale.
    * Muv-Luv & Muv-Luv Alternative . Muv-Luv Extra is your typical fluffy school setting (get to know the characters, and cherish the good times while you can...). Before Muv-Luv Unlimited throws the whole cast into a war torn timeline. Still, Unlimited is mostly just more character building. Then Alternative ...... is a trainwreck that gives you all the drama, all the heartbreak, all the pain, all the PTSD (even some graphic imagery).
     
    Others you should probably read (I havn't read them yet, so I can't really comment)......
    Steins;Gate
    The Shadows of Pygmalion
    Devil on G-String
    Hapymaher
    Kara no Shoujo
    White Album 2
     
    And for really effed up things, check out....
    Subahibi
    Euphoria
  6. Like
    Oxygen reacted to Clephas in What are "Classic" VNs?   
    Monetary incentives generally decide whether a game gets translated... that and the random whims of fantranslators.
     
    English-translated
    Dies Irae
    Hapymaher
    Untranslated
    Koiiro Soramoyou
    Tasogare no Sinsemilla
    Konata yori Kanata made
    Akagoei (series)
    Mirai Nostalgia
    Komorebi no Nostalgica
    Arcology series (Fake Azure Arcology and Re:Birth Colony)
    Muramasa
    Jingai Makyou
    Haruka ni Aogi, Uruwashi no (translation in progress)
    Ikusa Megami Zero
    Kitto, Sumiwataru Asairo yori mo
    Moshimo Ashita ga Harenaraba
    Otome ga Tsumugu Koi no Canvas
    Otome wa Boku ni Koishiteiru Futari no Elder
    Rui wa Tomo o Yobu
    Shin Koihime Musou
    Tenshi no Hane o Fumanaide
    Tsuisou no Augment
    Vermilion Bind of Blood
    Semiramis no Tenbin
    Houkago no Futekikakusha
    Venus Blood Hypno
    Kamikaze Explorer
    Love Revenge
    Baldr Skydive (series, in progress translation)
    Kami no Ue no Mahoutsukai
    Lovesick Puppies
    Sakura, Sakimashita
    Hikoukigumo no Mukougawa
    Dracu-riot (until the release, whenever that is)
    Shirogane no Soleil
    Hanasaki Work Spring
    Hatsuyuki Sakura
    Hyper→Highspeed→Genius
    Tiny Dungeon
    Midori no Umi
    Ojou-sama wa Gokigen Naname
    Sanzen Sekai Yuugi (the only otomege here)
    Walkure Romanze
    Edit: I went for a sampling of genres and companies/maker teams with this, as opposed to just naming every classic VN.  With VNs, it is better to find a type you prefer and blow through all the similar ones before you start branching out, because you'll just end up coming back to what you first liked anyway.
     
  7. Like
    Oxygen got a reaction from kokoro in What are "Classic" VNs?   
    Note: They don't have to be well-known. A lot of classic literature is barely known, but they're timeless and very well made.
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