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thelink1123

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Posts posted by thelink1123


  1. 1 hour ago, novurdim said:

    Well... yes?
    According to your previous comment and this pic you said:

    1) Adapt the graphics and modify the content to suit the tastes of the people of the other culture.

    2) Change the game contents to "make it fit into the American themes prevalent today".

    That's basically what 4kids were doing... right? Right? You don't just talk about translation and speech adaptation, as I have mentioned, you have found the broadest definition of localization available and mindlessly applied it to the niche industry with quite specific customers and demands. To start with GALA is not even necessarily about creative works of fiction, it's mostly about services which are two extremely different things... 

    I don't think I'm crazy but when I combine modifying the content, adapting the graphics and fitting in the american themes I basically get censorship and 4kids. Apollo and his burgers. If you, erm, got what you are advocating for, you would be the first to be upset. Fureraba is very far from what you are depicting, it only has a somewhat westernised style of dialogue. And according to you, that's not what localization is at all.

    And I'm not here for cheap jabs, if you ask pretty much any translator, they'd say that preserving the author's original ideas and intent is the most important thing of all, the only discourse is about being literal or more liberal about the wording during the translation. You are basically saying this yourself: "Here in the US, I hear the word "fool" used almost on a daily basis, and it lacks any hint of true contempt for somebody". So it wouldn't hold the same effect intended by the author hence they made her "rougher" to better reflect that idea. This is exactly what a more liberal attempt at preserving the original ideas and an intended impact on the reader is. Some agree with this approach, some advocate for a more literal translation but this is a different debate altogether. 

    K


  2. 8 hours ago, novurdim said:

    No, the point of the game localization company is to translate it into the target language in a way that preserves the author's original ideas and intent the most while considering the particularities of said language. There are all sorts of localization industries with their own rules so we shouldn't mix them up with the extremely broad definitions. The idea of making something "fit into the american themes prevalent today" honestly horrifies me and provokes nightmarish flashbacks from the days of yore when official anime releases were messed up beyond recognition and the legendary 4kids did their legendary stuff. :wahaha:

    Not to mention, that americans are not even close to the sole target of such localizations, its target audience is the whole english-speaking world.

     

    8 hours ago, Nier said:

    Yeah, no this is complete nonsense.

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    Is it not correct? The actual Association of Localization, their definition is incorrect? Alright :leecher:

    Did I mention 4kids? I never said censor it to hell, but most Americans/English speaking people are accustomed to a lot more swearing then the "IIE!!/NO!! or いいえ!!, or the legendary ばか/BAKA!!" that the Japanese find harsh. 

    So in this case for Fureraba, NN did just that by making the "harsh no's" be swearing and other bitchiness in an attempt to be funny and to appeal to the English market with a more English translation. Here in the US, I hear the word "fool" used almost on a daily basis, and it lacks any hint of true contempt for somebody. Would it really be appealing to have Yuzuyu telling MC he's a "fool/idiot/dummy" every time she gets embarrassed and the like? Not to me at least. 

    Honestly, if you want it exactly the way the "author intended it to be read", maybe reading it in Japanese might be your forte? :nokia:

     


  3. On 6/19/2019 at 9:07 PM, Codesterz said:

    One of the main problems I have is a lot of the times it doesn't accurately represent the characters personality. In Fureraba there is red haired chick that's supposed to be a classic tsundere, but all the swearing in her dialogue turns her into an American bitch. I'm pretty sure most of us that read VNs are weebs and we actually enjoy the Japanese anime trope character archetypes. Localization companies seem so hell bent on removing those aspects of a character and changing the characters into an American archetype that is similar. I know I sure as hell don't want that. I want a translation that keeps as much of the Japanese anime culture present as possible while still having sentences that flow well. A lot of the times I see people try defend the overly liberal translations by saying 'native English people don't talk like that'. The fuck do I care about how actual English people speak. I want to see how the Japanese anime character speaks, but in English.

    Localization as per gala-global: "Localization is the process of adapting a product or content to a specific locale or market."

    The entire point of a localization company is to make it fit into the American themes prevalent today. Or at least make the story fit the American market..

    Bringing up the point of Yuzuyu not being tsundere enough and more of a bitch is kind of counter-productive. Why do I say that? Her entire character is made to be mad at everything that embarrasses her but to also make it be literal hell for the person who embarrassed/upset her. She's the overly sensitive tsundere-type. Overly sensitive as in she takes a lot of things to heart, based on her route at least. It wasn't overly American since she reminded me of a thugdere at some points. Though like others have said...MTL rulz. Might as well read Fureraba and decipher the 50 different choices in MTL :wahaha:


  4. 6 minutes ago, novurdim said:

    I just wanted to let you know that it's not a true route. :makina:

    Like I said, I think it is constituted enough to be a true route, you can say she is a central heroine all you want, doesn't change my mind and I am not changing yours obviously (We are on opposite sides of the spectrum here). Move on and stop posting.


  5. 25 minutes ago, novurdim said:

    No-no, that's what I'm talking about, you are making up subjective terms using phrases like "it is to me" while those have long settled definitions. 

    True route is just that - a real TRUE ending which makes every other route into what-if's, it's not something used to describe the most fleshed out heroine that has the most screen time. This term usually describes a story in plot-centered VNs, you can even call it a canon ending, not a girl that you think hogs all the attention. I know the line can be blurry but I don't think calling Mitoko's route a true ending would be respectful to all those fine elders. Show some respect, son.

    I'm not basing my assertion that it is the true route solely on the fact that her route is more fleshed out than others as other evidence piles on i.e. "The Most Forbidden Love in the World!" (Obviously referring to the controversial nature of the relationship between a near 30 year old and a 14 year old that is shown through the VN's "true route" or the route that is obviously meant to be the main focus).

    You don't have to believe or agree with me on that it is a true route, but mostly everything points to it being the route the developers and writers obviously wanted you to focus your attention on. You might not think that constitutes as a "true" route but any route that has an emphasis put on it to draw even more attention and in this case, being that the VN's title alludes to the "forbidden relationship" it isn't necessarily crazy or out of this world to infer that Mitoko's route would/should be taken as the "true route" in this VN.

    I'm going to attempt to leave the conversation on this note as I would rather not confer about this any longer as it seems we both have different definitions and outlooks of what constitutes a "true route/ending".(This back and forth will obviously get us nowhere so it is just best to move on)


  6. 12 minutes ago, novurdim said:

    You are definitely confusing the meanings of "central heroine" and "true route". Look at it another way: since Mitoko's route is forced to be last, you won't even have to skip through it in order to enjoy your old hags ripe experienced women :makina:

    Old hags? They're literally adults. Not 87 year old widows.....

    And I am not confusing the meanings. Mitoko's route is meant to be a true route, or at least to me as it is fleshed out and expanded upon and is the last route a reader can read in the VN.

    A central heroine would be Setsumi from Narcissu, you know, where the only heroine is that one. 


  7. 20 minutes ago, Seraphim88 said:

    Yeah, I wasn't serious in my previous post! I actually agree with what you wrote. I can only think of one VN off the top of my head that decided to go with a "true ending" (it isn't officially one afaik) as a forced first route, and that is Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate.

    Ah, I see. I knew you weren't being entirely serious as...well.."Oppai Route" suggests lol. I was just ensuring the context/meaning of what I wrote wasn't taken literally as in the absolute last route you unlock in a VN is not what I meant the true route is.(I meant the true route is the one in which you need to read all other heroine routes to unlock a certain heroine's route[Or some other parameters must be fulfilled to unlock it ])

    In Damekoi's case, I would see Mitoko's route as the true route because of the fact it is so fleshed out and longer than the other routes, and by the fact you must complete every other heroine before her route. In Koi to Senkyo, I personally believe it was bad design to force a certain ending on the first playthrough, as I believe the freedom you get in a visual novel with choices is part of what makes them appealing to some. 

    Also going to have to read Rewrite now as the story for that "Oppai route" was hilarious when I searched it up lmao.


  8. 6 hours ago, Seraphim88 said:

    Oppai Ending in Rewrite confirmed as true route!

    Never read it, so I have no idea what you are referring to other than Oppai meaning Breasts. 

    (If it's one of those humor routes that unlock last, that isn't a specific heroine's route but rather more of a gag route[Similar to harem route in Koisuru Natsu no last resort])

    [Nevermind one search told me it was a gag route in Rewrite, which means the context for what I was referring to has been altered. A gag route like the crabs in Majikoi certainly isn't what I would call a true route.]


  9. 35 minutes ago, novurdim said:

    Though I'm not convinced you can count Mitoko's as a true route in the usual sense of the word. Yes, it's definitely the most developed one and you have to read everything else to access it but all that doesn't make it a true route, there are likely different themes in every story which don't feel incomplete by themselves and it's not like you can't ignore the one you don't want to get in your personal moral jail for.

    Most VNs that force you to unlock a certain heroine's route by reading everyone else's route are trying to nudge the player toward the opinion that the last route should be taken as the true route. Or at least, that's how I look at it, seeing that there are many VN's that have the same formula with forcing the reader to read the other routes first ('Hello, Goodbye', Da Capo, fairly certain Hoshizora no memoria did as well, and these are just a few of the many VN's that have this formula) 

    And I'm fine with others reading it just because it's Maruto's work [Oh how I dream of a WA2 translation].....


  10. 4 hours ago, novurdim said:

    Since it looks like they don't mention the exact age in the game, going by these measures I'd say it's just as possible that she is 15 in the beginning (last middle school year) and 16 later (start of the high school) hence yeah, basically the same as the vast majority of eroge heroines, we do meet most of them in their first year of high school. But knock yourself out, it's not like everyone should be open minded about the age gap issue, there's a huge crowd out there that wants to ban even a recognized classic like Nabokov's Lolita.

    Admittedly, a bit of a shame that Damekoi's topic, of all things, should be so thoroughly polluted with this, it doesn't even feature any loli heroines and tackles its issues pretty seriously. But hopefully after the first real Maruto translation is finally out, we'll see more substantial discussions.

    Going by the plentiful reviews I read, it seems we follow Mitoko and the MC throughout her last year of middle school (14) all the way until her graduation (Probably 15, maybe 14 depending on birthday) and, from reviews, it seems the thick of the route is over after that. 

    I can get where the conflict comes from, and definitely understand #3's point on vndb. Would it be better if the MC was like 17? Yes, as it wouldn't be such a large pill to swallow as that of an adult man(who is 14 years older) going after an, at least in my country, underage girl (That gets you put in federal prison y'know?)

    Yeah sure, the laws in Japan are different, but seeing as the point of the VN is to have a very controversial relationship blossom between essentially a kid and a grown man and try to deal with those issues that come along with it, I can almost guarantee it isn't for everyone. I'll stay away from it, even though the other heroines have routes and are older, solely because I prefer to 100% my VNs, and I don't think I could ever see the true route between Mitoko and MC as ever being normal and thus, would make 100% a real displeasure to myself as I wouldn't like the route.(Would be an instant read if Mitoko wasn't true route!)

    [Honestly, 2 years ago, when I read the description I initially thought that forbidden love meant that the MC wasn't meant to be happy and that finding love was a "forbidden" thing to do. Oh how I was so wrong....] 


  11. 5 hours ago, Dergonu said:

    Everyone in here needs to chill. This back and forth has very little to do with the OP’s original question. Some posts have been hidden. Let’s not make this any worse, and keep things civil and on topic instead, or else we’ll have to lock the whole thing. 

    I disagree with it having nothing to do it, considering I was sticking up for OP in this case the entire time. Honestly, you need to have a little chat with your resident "purposefully abrasive"(found that gem on the neko forums when one user in this thread was called out for his behavior there) users who try to shit on someone else reading something the way they intend to do so. I said many times "let people enjoy things how they want" though somehow it devolved into what it became. Also, see Zakamutt's comment, you might want to hide it considering he's blatantly calling the OP an imbecile. Either way, it's clear that there is always the bad apples that come along to sour things. Now, I won't be commenting further on this thread.

    (I know I'm not 100% innocent but at least I stuck up for OP in this case and didn't try to be an outright ass about it. My answer to the main topic? Probably shouldn't read in MTL but if you want to try who am I to stop OP from doing so?)


  12. Just now, Asonn said:

    I think you guys have both different options and that is okay, you don't have to fight over it. I might not like MTL, but if someone wants to, let them do so. If they enjoy it's all fine. Maybe they even get the intention to learn Japanese as they want to understand more and more while reading. 

    I tried the peaceful option, "let people enjoy things the way they want", and all debate could have been thrown aside. You saw how it actually went though.


  13. 51 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    Too long to quote lol

    I love how once you decided to try and one up me by going and using proper, eloquent, and sophisticated wording in your reply then in the end boil down to "blah, blah, kid" lol.

    I never defended MTL itself but merely the OP for deciding to use it because he wants to finish a series he loves, i.e. "I don't like MTL as much as the next VN reader but who are we to judge someone based on how they choose to consume media", any further deduction of me defending MTL is downright idiotic and hilarious when nothing in the sentence I just quoted ever pointed to me defending MTL. 

    51 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    A foolish position to hold since, as has been stated, MTL means he is not reading the VN in any form at all.

    That's an opinion, considering he said he can just about understand the spoken japanese but not the written portion, i.e. thoughts and feelings. An opinion is not fact

    51 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    More childish to try to misrepresent someone’s valid and asked-for criticisms as childish outbursts.

    There's a huge difference between constructive criticism like what I mentioned before. i.e. "[An easy "No, this game will make absolutely no sense to you MTL'ed, I suggest you find something else" and not being insulting the OP would have sufficed and we wouldn't even be here but alas]", and projected criticism, i.e. "What else did you expect? People to sympathize with your laziness and lack of respect for the original text by forcibly butchering it through Google Translate? Get real.". One is having decency in reacting to said question/concern, the other lacks that and is just a negative emotion-filled outburst. 

    51 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    As for the last paragraph, it is in fact an existent opinion, and not one I would put past the OP.

    That's basically calling him a idiot in all but name. Doesn't really make you look too good.

    51 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    Can’t believe it’s simple-minded to think people who defend MTL are simple-minded, and to believe they exist when they post on this forum

    Once again, MTL is shitty, we all know this, and I don't defend it at all. As well as nothing I ever said was pointing to me coming in the defense of MTL, but instead, of OP because that response was outright unnecessary. 

     

     

    51 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    Valid, but legal matters were never of concern here. A tangent stemming from misinterpretation.

    Never said that legal matters were of importance here besides a one-off mention. I used that as context for OP being able to read it the way he so chooses to do so. 

     

    51 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    If you insist, I’ll make sure to join threads you post in from now on.

    First, fairly certain that doing that will be in violation of site rules as harassment. Second, I'm not active enough to be following in the first place.

    51 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    Well, if you ever shed your sloth for long enough to learn anything about learning Japanese, you would find that you do not in fact have to learn an entire language to read a VN in Japanese, disregarding the part where learning whole new languages is cool and fun and makes you smarter and is generally just a good thing.

    I know you don't need the entire language to read a VN but learning it just to enjoy something is quite the undertaking of effort for personal enjoyment. Funny you try to act innocent and then insult me by calling me lazy because I don't have the time to learn because of university. Pure dumbness. Plain and simple. Do you think I sit around and do nothing during the day? As for learning new languages, I'm actually learning Spanish currently, albeit slowly as I have little time outside of changing periods between classes during the week (~20 or so minutes). Why am I not learning Japanese instead you might ask? That's because Spanish is much more commonly used and is more practical for jobs.

    51 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    Don’t know why someone has to criticize me for me to criticize other people, but ok kid

    You, uh, replied to me first, sparking this hours-long argumentative debate. You criticized me for questioning how MTL= lack of respect for the work and in doing so, was entirely sarcastic and borderline insinuative of insulting myself. "but ok kid"

    51 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    Considering there was no simplification and we were never in terms of a different topic, I’m pressing X right now, but sure

    The point I was trying to convey was not getting across so I drew up a scenario to make my point simpler to understand in the context of the topic at hand. Also, it's very hard to convey emotion through text on a screen besides capitalizing them and or emojis. That's the whole reason writing/research classes teach you how to be more expressive in wording ideas and points so that they are easily understandable by just about anyone reading said idea or point. It was never meant to insult you but you felt it did so here we are.

    1 hour ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    Funny that you should say that when you were the first one to insult, and you conveniently ignore how I’ve countered most of your points.

    "Now, nothing has been ignored." [From the last reply you posted(The others contain similar points as it is), spent way too long on this and I feel this closes out any debate considering we both paragraph vomited this thread.]


  14. 3 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    Funny that you should say that when you were the first one to insult, and you conveniently ignore how I’ve countered most of your points.

    Asking if the way I put it was simple enough to understand in the terms of the topic we were discussing is not insulting you, but alright. 

     

    You also conveniently ignored large parts of my replies so we're even I guess?


  15. Just now, McDerpingheimer III said:

    Your thought processes are already far more than simple enough, it’s fine as is.

    Alright buddy, you're the one who thought the OP was dumb enough to treat a MTL as the whole experience. Simple-mindedness can be easily thrown back onto the one spewing that bullshit.

    Just now, McDerpingheimer III said:

    Would be more dedication and respect to learn Japanese to experience it properly and then buy a Japanese version, no?

    You're one of those people, eh? Not everybody has the schedule to learn Japanese just to read something that is supposed to be entertainment, not hard work. 

    I should probably rest my case here since there's no point since you've boiled down into insulting me :michiru:

    Thankful that most of the threads that I post in don't usually feature people like you who spew "LEarN JEPenes PlEB" when anything related to translations happening or not happening is the topic. 

    Seriously, don't piss on someone else's parade just because someone clearly did that to you already. :meguface:


  16. Just now, McDerpingheimer III said:

    But then, you contradict yourself, for how can you respect something if it’s not even the thing you say you’re respecting?

    That's like saying if I were to install windows 95 on my computer that it isn't even windows anymore because it is inferior. It is still windows, but it's just severely outdated and not remotely useful, much like a MTL.

    If I wanted to read a VN really badly, and the translation is seemingly never going to happen, and the only way to experience it in some fashion is MTL, well I'm going to bite the bullet. I'm showing dedication and respect to go out of my way to purchase the japanese version( DIRECTLY supporting the devs) and read it with terrible translation that will barely net me a 64th of the enjoyment but at least I experienced what I wanted.

    Does that simplify it enough for you?


  17. 18 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    Don’t ignore what I said, a mockery is a mockery if you consider it equivalent to the original, regardless of whether you make it or promote it

    I didn't ignore anything buddy. Once again, twice in my last reply and going to be once in this one: I never said anything about it being remotely equal/equivalent to the original. That's just shoving words in my mouth.

    I don't like MTL as much as the next VN reader but who are we to judge someone based on how they choose to consume media? Though if I recall the few that reacted and outburst with "MtL? dA fuK!?" are the same ones that tell the community to learn an entire language just to enjoy something. Let people enjoy things the way they want.(Even if it is pretty shitty)[An easy "No, this game will make absolutely no sense to you MTL'ed, I suggest you find something else" and not being insulting the OP would have sufficed and we wouldn't even be here but alas] 

    Also, if you honestly think that OP even remotely believes that a MTL is akin to the original, then let's just stop this here.

     


  18. 51 minutes ago, McDerpingheimer III said:

    How is butchering something and calling the mangled carcass the original a lack of respect lmao it’s basically the same thing

    seriously, idk why everyone’s so up in arms about this shit, my crayon replica of the mona lisa is pretty much the original, in fact, it’s respect that i would try to replicate it

    He owns the VN so he's free to do as he pleases besides rip and sell illegal copies.  Just like how you can draw the Mona Lisa with crayons(Though I never mentioned a damn thing about the MTL and in this instance, your drawing being anywhere near the original :leecher:) if you want, just don't expect me to hang it up on my fridge because, quite frankly, I don't care either way. End of story.

    Oh and don't twist what I said, I said he's showing respect by even considering suffering through a MTL, not that he is replicating the original. Like how did you even get that from what I said lmao.


  19. 4 hours ago, VirginSmasher said:

    What else did you expect? People to sympathize with your laziness and lack of respect for the original text by forcibly butchering it through Google Translate? Get real.

    Did you have to go about basically saying "fuck you and what I assume is your laziness"? It's clear the dude just wants to read it in any form since translation progress has gotten to the point where like a pc would say "too long to estimate" on the download estimate. Laziness? for what, not learning an entire language? How is reading it with machine translation a lack of respect?(If anything, it's showing his respect to the series by suffering through MTL because he wants more.) It isn't like he is going to release a MTL patch or something. 

    And no, I am not buddy buddy with him, though I do know that this little outburst of yours was pretty childish and just unwarranted in general. 

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